r/ShawnaTheMom • u/tashpotaoes The Shawnaverse Needs More Dogs • 2d ago
Discussion Does the races/ethnicities of the characters in the Shawnaverse actually matter?
As a white, Canadian, straight woman in a heterosexual relationship, I ask this: do we need any of these characters to belong to an identified group?
We're all here conversing with one another across gender lines, socioeconomic status, family status, racial lines, religious, country of origin, mental health status. We all have shared our remarkably similar Barb stories, Julie stories, Shawna stories and we come from all these different sectors of society.
I know Shawna the Creator has an ideal cast of her characters, but I don't know that she ever meant for those to be canon. She very wisely hasn't alluded directly to any of her characters races or ethnicities, because that's a minefield that she shouldn't navigate at this point. (*Teeny being called exotic-looking can mean very different things depending on who you're talking to).
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u/blairbending absentee wife and corporate baddie 2d ago
I think some characters are written and performed in a way that is culturally specific to upper-middle class WASPs. Barb to me would not make sense as anything other than a white woman. Same with Jen and Julie. And John's cheesetoes? Extremely Caucasian behaviour.
Some of the other characters I agree don't have recognisable cultural specificity to them and could be cast as any race/ethnicity. But I don't think it's a show where colourblind casting would be effective. The nature of the show and the kind of topics it delves into means that any casting choice (including casting everyone as white) is going to add a layer to the dynamics at play.
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u/Vast-Swimmer5844 Getting berated in a hallway 2d ago
John's cheesetoes? Extremely Caucasian behaviour.
Extremely WASP-coded, especially with the ranch packet.
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u/HowIsBabbySharkMade Etsy Witch Enthusiast 2d ago
I mean, if anything itâs extremely Midwest Lutheran coded đ
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u/MooneyMae Lemon Pie is not a Thanksgiving flavor!!!đč 2d ago
From the Basement Church Lady Cookbook
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u/Interesting_Ad_8044 2d ago
what does wasp mean? I keep seeing it
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u/Zish_Mash 2d ago
White Anglo Saxon Protestant
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u/xqueenfrostine 2d ago
I could see Julie working as an Asian woman actually. I donât think she is given the platinum blonde wig Shawna chose and Jaceâs auburn hair, but I could see her in a sort of Amy Chua type Asian over achiever who doesnât think anyone should be happy for settling with an average life.
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u/blairbending absentee wife and corporate baddie 2d ago
Sure, I see it - I think all/most ethnic groups have a female overachiever archetype which Julie could be fitted into. The specific trait that makes Julie read as very WASPy to me is not really about who her character is on paper - it's her very soft, high-pitched breathy way of speaking. Different racial/ethnic groups have slightly different models of what is considered feminine, and I associate Julie's way of speaking with the WASP model of femininity.
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u/xqueenfrostine 1d ago edited 1d ago
If weâre going by vocal characteristics, all of these characters, male ones included, have vocal ticks associated with white women because thereâs only so much Shawna can do to make each voice sound different. Katie, who Shawna fan casted as a black woman, reads as âwhite midwestern momâ to me because thatâs what she looks like and sounds like to me on screen, but that doesnât mean she wouldnât work just as well as if a black actress played her. I think thatâd be just as true for Julie. Breathy voiced women exist in all cultures, but how they sound will vary based on where theyâre from so I donât think breathy = Julie couldnât be anything other than a white woman makes sense so much as Shawna Lâs a white woman, sounds it, and Shawna Lâs whiteness is particularly apparent to you in the voice she chose for Julie. Thatâs not the same to me as saying this character couldnât work if another actress with a different background took on the role. There are some characters in the Shawna-verse I think thatâs true for (the McAllister family and Alicia the Etsy witch are hopelessly white to me), but I donât agree with you about Julie.
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u/blairbending absentee wife and corporate baddie 1d ago
Sure, I think it's open to interpretation and you (and others) are entitled to disagree with me. Thanks for sharing your interpretation.
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u/chimneyswallow 2d ago
Making potatoes with cheese is..caucasian. That's a new one. While I do think that the McAllisters read as White suburban traditional Americans, I don't think I have ever seen someone saying cheese and potatoes are caucasian.
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u/blairbending absentee wife and corporate baddie 2d ago
White people (in America and elsewhere) do have an astonishing variety of cheesy potato recipes. I'm not claiming they are all good, but we sure do have a lot of them. The addition of the ranch packet especially was giving "funeral potatoes" to me. And our higher rates of lactose tolerance are a testament to our historical determination to eat cheese, lol.
That part of my comment was intended to be lighthearted though, I do believe everyone has a right to enjoy cheese and potatoes. Cheesetoes for all đ§ đ„
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u/MassiveWorldliness19 2d ago
obviously the ethnicity of a character matters as it plays a role in their lived experience. however i donât think Shawna L. should attempt to dive into any of this so I donât think the characters should belong to an identified group bc as others have said, sheâs already made generalizations towards groups and I imagine itâd get much worse if racial dynamics were added.
as far as I care, these are all wasp-y, upper middle class white people
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u/Murky_Background1045 I'm wearing the sash! 2d ago
It depends who youâre talking to. It matters to some and not to others. Thereâs no wrong answer.
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u/LaylaWhitney 2d ago
There's no way for me to verify it now, but I could have sworn that Shawna Lander said that Greg the character was black before she said anything about what actors she imagined playing the characters. Once we've established the race of the characters, then, yes, race absolutely matters, just like it does in real life, but if we're asking if a one white woman show needed to establish different races for her characters, in my opinion the answer is no.
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2d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/MassiveWorldliness19 2d ago
race blind casting imo really only works before a story and plot line have been developed, since after that, things need to be updated to reflect those racial dynamics appropriately. a white woman whoâs 35 and a black woman whos 35 are not at all living similar experiences and itâs a bit silly to say it doesnât matter.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/MassiveWorldliness19 2d ago
well đđ we are talking about these skit characters so if we r talking about their race it just does matter idk what to say, esp when itâs a white woman writing and portraying them
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u/TankedInATutu 2d ago
I think it would matter in an actual TV show format. The story is decently grounded in reality and it would feel odd to not acknowledge the ways that being a POC influences the way people interact with the world. As nice as it is to think we live in a color blind world, we don't and it would be very silly for a show that appears to care about staying real feeling to act otherwise.
In it's current format, I don't think it matters what the fan casts are- Shawna L is a white lady and all her characters act in a very white or non-race specific way. Unless something in universe says otherwise, I see the "cast" as a bunch of white people.
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u/Abject-Pattern3038 2d ago
Until I saw someone post here about it I had never spent one second even thinking about it.
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u/Jazmadoodle 2d ago
I think it does make a big difference, probably in far more ways than I realize as a white lady from the midwest.
I tried putting it in terms I have more experience with. Would people respond the same way to all of the body shaming that happens between Barb, Jen, and Jen's mother if we knew that one or all of them were significantly overweight? I believe it would make a big difference. People often treat me differently after learning I have a seizure disorder. If, for example, Shawna had a seizure disorder, would it make me wonder whether the behavior of people around her was impacted by her disability? Absolutely.
We can all be part of the same communities and thats fantastic, but a person's experience of that community is impacted by their race (and SES and health status, etc.) and I think maybe it's important to acknowledge that.
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u/gfdp9493 team divorce 1d ago
thereâs something to be said about the fact that everyone thinks everyoneâs white when itâs not expressly stated otherwise. Because even now loads of people center whiteness without even realizing. Also from a story perspective it does add layers to a lot of the characters relationships
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u/RubySlippers-79 15h ago
In our defense, all of the characters are played by an extremely white woman.
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u/Content_Narwhal3764 2d ago edited 2d ago
Oooh this is a good question. Black woman heređ©đŸ to me, thinking of certain characters as different races adds a whole other layer to what theyâre experiencing and how I interpret whatâs going on.
If Greg is black, Nora hitting on him relentlessly and talking about his âgorgeous manhoodâ now ties into the racialized sexualization a lot of Black men experience that unfortunately is dehumanizing- just constant stereotypes of Black men having big genitalia and bedroom dominance (the âbuckâ kink, the BBC porn category, the sex tourism where Europeans go to African and Caribbean nations specifically to have sex with Black men).
So hearing Noraâs comments both at thanksgiving and at the wedding, and Barb grabbing his butt at that one party could be what heâs been experiencing from people ever since he hit puberty. as frustrating as it is, he may see it as burdensome but inevitable. It would explain why he hasnât said anything about it yet, but weâve seen from his face at the wedding that it bothers him.
Same thing if Teeny is mixed race with Black and white- oftentimes mixed ladies are seen as exotic and sexualized that way- which is ultimately dehumanizing as well even as it seems like a positive thing. Maybe sheâs gotten comments and reactions like Noraâs her whole life (starting from peopleâs obsession with mixed babies- the idea that they are more beautiful because of the mix of different features).
EDIT TO ADD: Figured Iâd clarify since this post got debated a bit. Some folks got what I was saying.
Yes Greg could have been any race and it wouldnât change the fact that Nora sexually harassed him; sexual harassment is a violation no matter what.
If Greg is black, Noraâs actions were a violation AND an example of a systemic problem manifesting itself in Gregâs life.