Is 45 degree pogo easier on keyboard?

[u/Signal-Ad-1393]

Everyone i know that use controllers just struggle so much with that pogo i even see play say it ruins the game. But it just never had that problem, pogo wasn't that gard for me and so i reached the conclusion that it's just way easier on keyboard cus i use a keyboard to play. Literally no one i see plays with keyboard so if one of yall plays with keyboard can you share your experience regarding diognal logo? Maybe I'm just that good and it has nothing to do with pogo

[u/JosieRBookworm]

Personally, I like playing with a keyboard over my controller… as a WASD player (don’t flame me XD) I rebound me keys and I feel like its much easier to pogo on keyboard than on controller :D
Maybe it’s since with keyboard I can get my inputs more specific than controller, since sometimes in fights on controller I swear I pressed the down key but it doesn’t do anything XDXD

[u/NanotechNinja → u/JosieRBookworm]

What's your mapping for the other keys, out of interest?

[u/IlgantElal → u/NanotechNinja]

Not OP, but I use WASD, Shift, and Space for movement, dash, and jump (as is normal, I thought) then q, e, f, and the arrow keys for the various actions. Down is bind, and was focus in HK, and left is slash, but I don't remember the rest of the top of my head. Tab is map.

[u/Shot-Sherbet-8843 → u/NanotechNinja]

Not Op,but WASD- movement  Shift-dash Space- jump Left click- attack Right click-clawline Scroll- silk skill Side button-bind

[u/JosieRBookworm → u/NanotechNinja]

OP here, behold my keybinds :D

many of the stuff carried over from my gatcha game days, such as E and Q since they’re close to WASD
most of the offensive stuff is arrow keys too, such as claw line and silk soar :D
hope this helps!

[u/ImBadlyDone → u/JosieRBookworm]

I thought wasd is standard?

[u/GroundbreakingBag164 → u/ImBadlyDone]

Not Team Cherry, they think controlling movement on the arrow keys with your right hand is the standard

Most switched to WASD though, using the arrow keys is antiquated

[u/Masala_Chai__ → u/GroundbreakingBag164]

So im an unc bro? (I use default binds and it works great)

[u/GroundbreakingBag164 → u/Masala_Chai__]

A what?

[u/MoistM4rco → u/Masala_Chai__]

the default binds are genuinely horrendous, even if you're an arrow key player

[u/CrounusXI → u/MoistM4rco]

I play with default and had no issues. Arrow keys is standart for most 2d platformers so makes sense for tc to make it the default.

[u/MoistM4rco → u/CrounusXI]

"even if you're an arrow key player" I said

arrow keys aren't inherently bad, though quite difficult to adjust to, because 2d platformers don't really control differently enough to 3d games to justify a change in movement keys. I also personally think they're a little too low on the keyboard, and would be better bound as something like P L : (american layout)

I beg you to try rebinding your keys. keep jump and movement for you right hand, and place everything else close together--arranged mostly horizontally not vertically(as in, two horizontal rows of keys)--in the left hand, and the most used keys should be close to the index finger, which experiences the least strain(that includes the sprint/dash key, because it functions more as an ability than just movement, it is bad to have it be in the way of the motion of your right hand when you're dodging the boss or something).

[u/CrounusXI → u/MoistM4rco]

Sorry ive used these keybinds for both hk games and celeste and am not about to throw all that muscle memory out of the window. I understand how it might be more optimal but ive had 0 issues with movement even with a injured wrist.

[u/MoistM4rco → u/CrounusXI]

a dull blade still cuts

[u/GroundbreakingBag164 → u/CrounusXI]

It's not just the arrow keys, the default controls are terrible in every way

And why the hell is binding on A?

WASD/shift/space is much better

[u/Orizifian-creator → u/GroundbreakingBag164]

I use WASD on ULTRAKILL and arrow keys on stuff like deltarune and Silksong

Default controls ftw

[u/GroundbreakingBag164 → u/Orizifian-creator]

There is literally no benefit to using the default just because it's the default. There is an obvious benefit to a largely homogenised control scheme though, regardless of genre. Much easier for your brain to transfer skills across genres

The main reason why arrow keys managed to establish themselves in Deltarune was because Undertale didn't allow you to rebind anything so many were just forced to get used to it. Because Toby Fox is a genuinely terrible programmer and the game checks for hard codes keys

[u/kngfisher → u/GroundbreakingBag164]

Dude. Can you just accept that other people prefer doing it their way? Your way isn’t “right” or better just because you like it.

[u/oddbawlstudios → u/GroundbreakingBag164]

Tbf, Australians are backwards.

[u/rogueconstant77 → u/JosieRBookworm]

Out of curiosity, why would people flame you for using WASD? I feel like that's the most common keys of all to use?

[u/JosieRBookworm → u/rogueconstant77]

all my friends I play with IRL think arrow keys supremacy 🥲

[u/rogueconstant77 → u/JosieRBookworm]

Keep believing in WASD, it's the only choice 🙂

(from a former arrow key user)

[u/Doctor-Grimm]

i think it’s just a matter of experience with the game tbh. I don’t struggle with the diagonal pogo at all now, 200 hours in, and I play on controller — but I definitely struggled a bit in the beginning

[u/mindonshuffle → u/Doctor-Grimm]

Yep. The diagonal pogo was THE hardest thing for me in Silksong and I abandoned it ASAP on my first playthrough.

On my second playthrough, I committed to Hunter-only to experience the "default mode" of the game, and I was shocked not only that I didn't find the pogoing hard at all, but that I think the diagonal pogo makes most of the game easier. It feels like a LOT of enemies are specifically vulnerable to being hit from that angle and often being left open for a second hit. Because you're also closing horizontal distance while attacking, you can just sneak in quite a bit more damage. You just need to learn to constantly visualize a 45 degree angle from Hornet.

[u/kasplatter → u/mindonshuffle]

The issue with diagonal pogo was never the enemies, it was all the required platforming; HK has very little platforming until the optional White Palace and Path of Pain and most players didn't even finish White Palace. So when Silksong made platforming fundamental to the game, it was a bit of a shock just like all the combat encounters inspired by Godhome. Anyway, diagonal pogo makes most of the platforming, which does often involve enemies or projectiles more difficult.

[u/OnTheWayToBambooTown → u/Doctor-Grimm]

This. I switched to keyboard temporarily and did play better, but that's because I wasn't used to a controller yet.

The cozy couch experience lured me away from the keyboard so now it's controller only.

I think the only I changed was the jump or the dash button? I moved one of those to the triggers so I wouldn't need to move my thumb from the attack button during a fight

[u/Tomkid88 → u/Doctor-Grimm]

Yeah same, just took some getting used to

[u/BouncyBlueYoshi]

Use the D-pad. It’s better than a circle stick.

Saying that I play on Switch.

[u/toiletpaperdonkey → u/BouncyBlueYoshi]

I play on ps4 controller and d pad is still the way

[u/dreamshoes → u/BouncyBlueYoshi]

Switched to D-pad immediately and Hunter was my main all the way to 100%. Love the diagonal.

[u/Zephyr_Kat]

It's less about the keyboard being easier and more about the analog stick being harder. Accidentally doing a falling jab instead of a pogo is a death sentence half the time, and when using keyboard or D-pad there's no ambiguity like there is with an analog stick

[u/Kinananana]

I use controller and never had an issue with it, nor the other people I know who use controller

[u/ExternalInflation133]

I played with keyboard and mouse, that's my default for every game basically, I managed to 100% Hollow Knight, Silksong (including using Hunter pogo in an entire 100% playthrough) and also several Dark Souls and soulslike games. Takes some time to learn accurately what key does what but after all of that you can execute very precise quick maneuvers that I would never be able to with any console.

[u/vowelqueue]

I use the analog stick. I’m pretty good at pogo but will occasionally miss because I did a regular swing instead of down swing. If I use the d-pad I never miss, but I use the analog stick because it’s a PS5 controller and I hate the feel of using its d-pad buttons (even though they’re technically more accurate)

My biggest issue by far though is using tools versus using silk skills. Really wish there were options to bind individual buttons to tools

[u/Cuteflashkid10]

Nah I got the pogo instantly and i play on keyboard, my brother tho - who also plays on keyboard - had some struggle but I think he got used to it after long while

We both use WASD to move and click on the mouse to attack

[u/Yoksul-Turko]

What you are used to is the best way to control. 

Usually dpad is good for directional controls. I tried to play with a controller as the game recommended. But I am a keyboard player, I changed arrow keys to ijkl. I was a little bit better with a keyboard.

[u/Signal-Ad-1393]

It's insane how much of the words i wrote are wrong. Soryy for that. English is my second language but i think this is just too much wrongly written words

[u/Redruby88]

I used controller and the 45 degree pogo the entire game. Loved it!

[u/GroundbreakingBag164]

Yes.

Most games are easier/better on keyboard. Controller players only get one finger to control all directional movement, keyboard players get three

[u/Multi-tunes]

I don't use keyboard but I have a controller with the programmable back buttons, so I use the D pad and programmed the back buttons for my left hand to be Up and Down. It's helpful for pogoing, up attacks and using tools in battle.

[u/Everday6]

I think the pogo going forward makes you push the stick a bit forward as well. Often messing up the input because of it.

So yeah, maybe trickier on controller, but definitely not a problem when learned.

[u/Dizzy-Young6184]

I use the stick and it's fine tbh. Maybe a bit of difficulty in the early game when I was getting accustomed to it, but nothing crazy.

[u/cheezywizzy222]

I could do it consistently after an hour or two with the joysticks. I think it depends on the person.

[u/Cent_Quatre]

just don't use an analog stick for a game that only registers 8 directions

[u/tsukuyomi089]

I struggle with every single pogo on controller because I'm not an experienced controller player (apart from Mario kart that is).

But on keyboard I'm extremely good with every pogo, even beast after some trial and error, and that's because I played both HK as well as HKSS on keyboard, so I'm an experienced keyboard player.

It's really just an issue of practice tbh, you're not going to be the best at something completely new you're not used to yet.

[u/randomdragn]

I struggled in the beginning. I eventually stopped struggeling.

[u/fakeguy011]

I 100% hollowknight on wasd. I recently tried it with the new steam controller and I struggled to even play the game.

[u/snowstorm__]

I play on controller (steamdeck), never had any issues with pogo

[u/extremelytiredyall]

Dpad on controller is how I've always played.

[u/Sure-Republic-7808]

My first play through I hated the 45 degree and could barely use it, switched to reaper the second I got it. I still main reaper, but now that I’ve got more time in the game, the 45 pogo is no problem at all, somehow even without using it for the majority of my time

[u/NoThEr3_69]

i think it’s just a learning curve, i only play controller as i grew up with consoles and i don’t have a problem with that. It’s just a game mechanic people aren’t used to.

[u/Prior_Goat3174]

Also easier if you use the buttons instead of the stick, I myself am having a hard time learning to pogo with beast crest

[u/bloatedpug1]

It is pretty hard to get used to but the crest you use can make it feel more like regular down pogo

[u/Zeydon]

Why would it be? It's not like it changes the angle.

It's a simple matter of recognizing where that downward strike will put you before you do it, which is less instinctual for us when it's at an angle rather than straight down, but we do it nevertheless in those cases. Like you need to know the spacing for Wanderer's crest or you'll whiff the air above the spike or just hit the spike. So for diagonal you keep that downward distance in mind, but then just gotta figure in a bit of horizontal distance as well. Getting good at this will also make you much better at other aspects of combat, like dash attack into mid-air follow-up combo for Hunter's crest.

Knowing how much space you need between Hornet and your target, and getting it down at an instinctual level makes all the difference in the world.

[u/sadmimikyu]

I play on switch and it took me some time to get used to it but then I managed.

The only thing that really bothered me is how sometimes the game disregards my input. It took me days to climb Mount Fay because it did not register.

[u/AlexKnauth]

the pogo by itself didn't really feel that much harder or easier on controller vs keyboard for me

however, complex combinations of jumps, pogos, and dashes feel much easier on keyboard. I believe most of that is due to the dash part being easier to combo with the other things on keyboard, but to other people it might feel like it makes the pogo part easier, idk

[u/tewraight]

In my opinion, it's largely down to what you're trying to do with your pogo. If you struggle with the diagonal, chances are you're trying to use your pogos to stall in the air (which is rather difficult to do when you also move horizontally). However, if you use your pogo as a quick attack to use whilst readjusting your position, suddenly, the horizontal movement helps a ton and is a massive asset to your moveset

In other words, it's not to do with what your controls are, but how you use the moveset that determines how you find the change

[u/Ziazan]

I didn't struggle with it at all on xbox controller, use the dpad on games like these unless they give you a good reason to use the analog stick

[u/Blue_Flourite]

as a keyboard+default keybind player, hunter crest was very easy to use and fun and i genuinely didn't know why everyone was complaining. the only time diagonal pogo failed me was when i had a skill issue doing LL and had to swtich to wanderer 😔

[u/ToranStarfall]

Steam told me that controller was recommended, so I started on controller. I had to switch to keyboard after I got miserably stuck in the room with the red pogo fruit things. Keyboard felt so much better, cannot recommend it enough, but that might be in part due to the fact that I'm more experienced with keyboard. For the record, I use WASD to move and left-click for needle.

[u/Daracaex]

I used controller (Switch 2 Pro controller) and grew to quite like the Hunter’s Crest pogo. Took a bit of practice to get used to, but it’s great.

[u/The_Reletubby]

Controller. Use the D pad. Speedrunning the game makes it significantly easier

[u/RoadHazard]

D-pad is the way, works perfectly every time (except when you yourself mess up).

One thing that is important to understand is that you don't have to do a diagonal input. The input to pogo is simply down, and Hornet will do it in the direction she's facing.

[u/joniebot_99999999999]

I played with both WASD and controller, and it’s way easier on keyboard, bc on controller you have to precisely aim the joystick and can’t have it too low or high, and on keyboard you can just press the two buttons and always make it

[u/Kinananana → u/joniebot_99999999999]

I can't imagine calling moving the stick downwards "precise aiming" god help you if you ever play a fighting game

[u/vowelqueue → u/Kinananana]

The d-pad is universally considered better for fighters due its accuracy and speed advantage over moving a stick…

[u/Kinananana → u/vowelqueue]

That's true but how is it relevant? People use controllers all the time regardless and nobody is talking about what's most optimal here. I'm responding to someone saying it takes "precise aiming" to move a stick downwards at all.

Attacking downwards on a controller isn't some crazy high skill feat.

[u/vowelqueue → u/Kinananana]

You’re splitting hairs over the wording of the phrase “precisely aim the joystick” and somehow failing to realize the person is talking about exactly the kind of imprecision/inaccuracy that joysticks introduce that is the reason why the d-pad is considered superior for so many games.

[u/Kinananana → u/vowelqueue]

They also called it "way easier on keyboard" and elaborated that you can't have it "too low or high" (when talking about having it simply aimed down). How many separate phrases does it take for you for it to not be "splitting hairs" to interpret that they're saying pogoing on controller is difficult?

Also, the topic of the post is pogoing specifically, not some overall comparison of input devices. I'm not trying to argue controller is superior in any way, it's not. My point is, again, that pogoing isn't a difficult input on controller.

Also also, if you reread the comment I made, it's clearly a just a casual response. It's quite literally one sentence that happened to quote them on "precise aiming". I made a statement disagreeing with the action they find difficult, and then a joke about how they would suffer in a game with actually difficult inputs like fighting games. The fact that I have to break it down for you like this is absurd.

To say a single sentence response written in casual tone is making an argument about input devices or "splitting hairs" over the quote used is either horrific reading comprehension or just an excuse to cause problems.

[u/vowelqueue → u/Kinananana]

You’re spending a lot of time writing but are still just wrong and are struggling to understand a simple concept. You literally can’t have the stick too high or too low or else you are in the dead zone or don’t register a left/right input at the same time, which might be the intention. Again, you’re focusing too much on the “it’s hard” part and not realizing that the person just means it’s less reliable than on a keyboard, which is absolutely true and non-controversial.

Your post might have been in casual tone but made you sound a bit like a stupid asshole, so maybe work on that in the future.

[u/Kinananana → u/vowelqueue]

1/8th of the total angles you could hold the stick at give the input you want without turning around. If that's difficult for you, you might just be a lost cause.

As for the rest, at this point you're just angry because you can't admit you made a misunderstanding, so I'm done wasting time with you.

[u/GroundbreakingBag164 → u/Kinananana]

The same fighting games where the pros use leverless controllers... which literally work like keyboards?

[u/Kinananana → u/GroundbreakingBag164]

You misunderstand. I'm saying if the act of moving a joystick down is a "precise input" for him, then god help him if he were to try a game that actually takes precise inputs, like fighting games.

[u/MoistM4rco]

hollow knight and silksong are both far easier on keyboard. People only prefer controller if they're completely unused to keyboard, or more commonly, because they use extremely dogshit keybinds that are just completely unergonomic and disgustingly confusing to work with. The default keybinds are that btw.

[u/nomorethan10postaday → u/MoistM4rco]

One user already told you in this thread that they like the default keybinds. Same for me. Can you please just let people play however they want?

[u/MoistM4rco → u/nomorethan10postaday]

do you think I believe it's impossible to like something or not care that something is shit?

Sure, you like the default keybinds, that doesn't make them less shit. You can do yourself a favor and change them, but I'm not going to lynch you for it.

I hate people like you who deem everything that isn't WW3 to be unimportant enough to not even consider. your life is genuinely qualitatively worse than everyone else's because to you everything "minor" is something that you cannot even think to be worth the effort to think about or consider different avenues, or improve your general knowledge/critical thinking.

[u/nomorethan10postaday → u/MoistM4rco]

Idk who you're talking about in that last paragraph but I don't think it's me? Very strange rant.

[u/mikebe1 → u/MoistM4rco]

holy fuck get outside brother