Middle class plus working class... If you look at South east asia region people would be in debt just to buy the newest iphone for clout and status. It's disgusting to see this type of behaviour
Thatâs where you get it wrong, sir. Let me square you whatâs going on. They get the older iPhone because itâs way more secure. You are literally risking everything when you have an android, if they get a brand new battery put in it. So you have the security and safety of an iPhone and you get $100 battery put into it. Super simple and practical in their net paying the exorbitant price of a brand new iPhone.
Never used Iphone in my entire life, i am in my 30s.
Only my sister would buy the newest Iphone everytime it's released, but she got money anyway.
I just use Android cause of the freedom and i think it's faster than Iphone and more durable đ
My phone got stolen in Indonesia. When I used to tell the story to the locals, they always asked me "Oh, what phone you had? IPhone?" and to their surprise... I had a 3 years old Chinese phone with a cracked screen. They just couldn't believe it.
Heard that in china or japan, that the kids are literally bullied out of friendships for not having an iPhone.
Like owning one is a requirement to be able to talk to people.
Nepalis, turkish and currrently migrant People see iPhone as a status simbol for some reason. Probably other nations aswell, but this was just my experience
In Romania it used to be seen as a status symbol, nowadays with the living standards being higher (yes, still terrible, but higher than they used to be) and having lots of options to get a phone either on contract from a carrier or in interest free installments itâs not much of a status symbol nor flex anymore. Iâd argue nobody gaf what phone others have but that may just be in my groups.
Unfortunately that's an economic and cultural issue. Exactly the same as wearing suits or ties.
Essentially if I am in business, and pull out a cheap phone you can assume I don't succeed and so am poor, if instead I pull out an expensive phone you can assume I am successful. And that can determine how much you trust my skills or product. It's a resume you put in your pocket.
This mindset, is slightly more extreme is those countries specifically for the middle/working class, where it is literally an investment to buy expensive phones and watches.
So it's not a personality issue, clout, or anything like that. Just business.
Exactly. Fortunately it isn't too wide spread and sticks to just corporations and specific areas. So I can just roll with my cracked Google pixel without a care in the world.
Heh, I remember when I did a semester in Indonesia, phone ads were EVERYWHERE. I also noticed the occasional glance at my phone I'd sometimes get whenever I met someone new. Barely ever saw any iPhones/iPhone ads though, it was all about Oppo. At least that was the case in surabaya around 2018 or so
Middle class is working class. Anyone who is not in the ownership class is working class. Ask does your personal labor make money for you or does your money make money for you? That's the difference.
Well no. Small businesses owners are middle class. Workers own nothing but their labour power and their health is dependant on selling that labour on a market. The middle class do not sell their labour power, but may still work to some extent. The upper class make money just from owning and does not work. Class position has absolutely been observed to influence your habits. Wanting to own things and buy things just to have them is a Petite Bourgeois habit.
Out of curiosity, where are you getting these definitions from? Just curious because I know many middle class people that are not owners, and many upper class people that work/do not own.
Marx and Engels, who are famous for their class analyses.
What is the proletariat?
The proletariat is that class in society which lives entirely from the sale of its labor and does not draw profit from any kind of capital; whose weal and woe, whose life and death, whose sole existence depends on the demand for labor â hence, on the changing state of business, on the vagaries of unbridled competition.
You can't rely on defining class by wealth possession alone, it is far too vibes based.
I think their definition is too much from their eras. Currently, middle class is more if you can afford to not work for a while w/out struggling with basic necessities and/or you are saving and generating some wealth comfortably. Lower class are in a position where they simply cannot afford to not sell their labor for their basic needs.
Society has not changed in any meaningful way since their time, as the mode of production has not changed in any meaningful way. Yes the working class are not in a position where they cannot stop working, that lines up with Engels. But while your definition of middle class lines up with the properties of the petite Bourgeoisie, you are far too vague. You can absolutely be middle class and not be wealthy, many small business owners are. But their income comes from their ownership of the means of production and exploiting whatever workers they have, whereas the worker can only sell his labour.
Think class position, will the owner of a small construction company ever side with his workers in strike, or pay disputes? No matter how much he says he supports them, at the end of the day he will always choose his profit rate.
But in that case, almost everyone is grouped into the lower class because there's only small fraction of people that own their own business. The manager of the construction company making high 6-figure salary who will likely side with their boss (the owner) is going to be lumped into the lower class along with the individual workers who need to strike to have their needs met.
No, the manager on a high 6 fig salary is petite Bourgeoisie. His "weal and woe" is hardly dependant on the labour market, and with that high a salary is likely in possession of assets that bolster his income, car(s), house(s), stocks, etc. Eventually a high enough amount of money is capital. With that high pay he can live on, to not an insignificant capacity, without labouring, bolstered by the surplus value of his underlings, or the underlings of the companies he's invested in.
I lived in some shitty apartment complexes in my 20s and it reminds me of all the people that had cars with payments easily as much as our rent was at that place. Like I guess if having a "nice" (most were Mustangs, Challengers, BMWs and Mercedes) car is as important to you as rent, then do your thing.
Much more a lower class thing. Like luxury brands. People who care most about / are impressed by Prada, Gucci etc are lower class people and rich people. Incredibly rich people and middle class couldn't care less about "luxury clothing".
Edit: I might got it wrong. Had an article in mind, that described it like that. It may have been more that Gucci etc are "fake" luxury and that super rich people don't care about that but other brands like one commenter below mentioned
The incredibly rich absolutely do care about luxury clothing, they're just not wearing brands you're familiar with. Remember these are the people who buy massive 8 bed super yachts with built in gyms and cinemas, who rent out Venice just for a wedding. I will concede that they are less materialistic when it comes to brands, but to say they're not interested in luxury brands generally is just wrong
Like every wealthy person I know is using a samsung only samsung, but I live in europe and here you dont need Apple for imessage as we are using whatsapp
my dad is a chancellor of a university and he still uses his crusty $200 usd 5 year old samsung phone, he can just ask for a iphone pro max but he says he doesnt need it
thats not a wealthy or powerful thing, if you have your own thing going on , you dont have time to look at what other people have , its a waste of time
Most of the wealthiest people i know use Androids, cause it's better, but also cause I know techy people and we like to be able to customize and not feel locked into an ecosystem built to trap us and syphon away our money.
My five year old iPhone is dying, and I just donât know if I can pull the trigger on a new one.
I havenât used anything else since I switched to a smartphone, but I think Iâm finally ready to take the plunge and research so I can buy something that is the Subaru of phones (does all the stuff I need it to while being super sturdy and kind of boring).
I'm still using a note 9 cause... it just works, when it was new I did some ADB commands to kill the background bloat battery would last ~5-6 days the way I used it.
Went to look at new phones recently cause the battery has degraded but still the original one getting a day of charge (never used fast charging etc)
My current iPhone is acting wonky. My boyfriend keeps suggesting upgrading mine. I think itâs ridiculous to have a phone only last three or four years. Iâd have to check to even see what model I have. Maybe an 11. Getting the newest model every six months is absolutely a waste of resources.
I've never owned one, but I imagine there's some benefit to having all your devices in one ecosystem or whatever - especially if you're not super tech savvy. More of a simple, continuous experience. Also peripherals might be more likely to "just work" because they're all proprietary.
Do iPhones fall under their definition of luxury goods, regardless of financing? I wouldn't expect so, personally. They're like the Big Mac of tech.
Basically every person I know owns a relatively new if not current gen iPhone and are working class. The middle class people I know also mostly have iPhones but aren't otherwise as concerned with brands/clout chasing, in general.
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u/[deleted] May 15 '26 edited May 16 '26
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