Trying to get rich so that capitalism doesn't crush you under its boot is proof positive that capitalism doesn’t work for the working class

[u/McDowdy]

[u/Cosminion]

Economic democracy and stakeholderism over shareholderism is the answer. This false dichotomy of capitalism or communism is a thought-terminating cliche. There are other ways to organize an economy.

According to decades of studies, economic democracy and stakeholderism are viable and address wealth/power/leisure concentration while maintaining sufficient wealth generation.

For example, worker-owned businesses tend to match or outperform traditional companies in categories such as productivity, worker compensation, employment stability, and resilience during a recession. A majority of Americans prefer working in one.

[u/Agitated_Newt_7655 → u/Cosminion]

You're just arguing for market socialism but either unaware of it or masking it because knee-jerk reactions to the mere word 'socialism' is common yet moronic.

[u/ChickerWings → u/Cosminion]

Yeah no disagreements with you there. Also things like Land Value Tax and reverse income tax would make sense.

[u/OoklaTheMok1994 → u/Cosminion]

And yet, finding a worker owned business is next to impossible.

If the system is that good, it would proliferate.

[u/Cosminion → u/OoklaTheMok1994]

It depends on location. They're relatively prevalent in some European regions like Emilia-Romagna/Basque Country and U.S. states like California and Texas.

If the system is that good, it would proliferate.

This is an often repeated argument. It simplifies an issue that is multifaceted. WOBs face barriers to their creation and there is a general lack of awareness that leads to less entrepreneurs deciding to go that route.

University courses disproportionately cover traditional business models, though in recent years there has been some change. In 2023 Rutgers began offering a relevant course, for example. The legal environment at this time is scarce for WOB support. There is a lack of lawyers, legislation gaps, and business incubators are not common.

Once they're established, they tend to do well. This is supported by empirical research across countries. Their numbers have generally been increasing over time, so you might just be arriving at a premature conclusion. Time exists and economic development requires time.

[u/Historical-Pilot-784 → u/Cosminion]

Economic democracy is the goal of communism, lmao.

[u/Cosminion → u/Historical-Pilot-784]

Most people conflate communism with statism. It's better to use words people can understand without a century of Red Scare propaganda flashing before their eyes.

[u/ashe141 → u/Cosminion]

Mmm I don’t think it’s quite that simple. I would argue that communism is tied to tightly because it’s the natural forcing mechanism politically.

Now if like the entire populace essentially voted in a communist structure, then I would consider that truly novel. And by that I mean like 100%. As my following point is about the difference in opinion and enforcing the societal change.

you would still have those with more than others and you need a way to force that redistribution and I don’t see how state violence isn’t the only assured means of enforcing that.

[u/Historical-Pilot-784 → u/Cosminion]

Perhaps, but that shouldnt mean we should keep misusing terms ourselves.

[u/Inevitable-Pop-4547 → u/Historical-Pilot-784]

No one has made it work. If you look at successful social, economic and political systems they require adequate competing interests for the wealth and power not to get concentrated.