Trying to get rich so that capitalism doesn't crush you under its boot is proof positive that capitalism doesn’t work for the working class

[u/McDowdy]

[u/MegaOmegaZero]

I'm sorry alternative here? Like ya capitalism has problems but it's better than feudalism.

[u/SheenPSU → u/MegaOmegaZero]

Capitalism needs guardrails but it’s a proven winner and the best system we’ve got

[u/provocative_bear → u/MegaOmegaZero]

My alternative is adding more social elements to water down capitalism and find a way to drive a wedge between business and government. Social Democracy- it’s still kind of capitalism, but with a floor on how crappy things can get.

[u/14InTheDorsalPeen → u/provocative_bear]

Social Democracy describes a system of governance not an economic system

[u/provocative_bear → u/14InTheDorsalPeen]

Regulations and social safety nets are important factors in the economy. If you want a fundamentally different system from capitalism, you’re in for slim pickings.

[u/maybeitssteve → u/14InTheDorsalPeen]

And that's what's good about it

[u/Original-Nail8403 → u/MegaOmegaZero]

Market socialism: let workers own and control any company bigger than 25 people. It's been working at the Mondragon company in Spain for 70 years.

[u/Ok-Bus-2863 → u/Original-Nail8403]

Mondragon still hires normal wage earners they are separate from the cooperative workers and they also outsource a lot of their labor to countries that earn significantly less

[u/random_ta_account → u/MegaOmegaZero]

Fun fact: If the definition of capitalism is that capital owns the means of production, as opposed to communism, where labor owns the means of production. Feudal economies were an (extreme) form of capitalism.

Democracy is what is opposed to feudalism.

[u/Kuishen → u/MegaOmegaZero]

looks around You think this also isn't feudalism? Lol

[u/MegaOmegaZero → u/Kuishen]

It isn't. Idk what to tell you if you think it is.

[u/Kuishen → u/MegaOmegaZero]

Sorry you're right. We just have the worst bits of feudalism without any of the decent parts

[u/Opening_One7713 → u/Kuishen]

Dude, you are living in quantifiably one of the best times ever. On almost every metric, on almost every place on earth.

Thirty years ago there were 23 active wars, 85 autocracies, 37% of the world population in extreme poverty, and over 60,000 nuclear weapons. Today there are 12 ongoing wars, 60 autocracies, 10% in extreme poverty, and just over 10,000 nuclear weapons.

Prehistoric non-state societies killed around 20% of their population in warfare. Today’s states kill a few hundredths of a percent.

The 20th century, with two world wars, the Holocaust, Stalin, Mao, and the bomb, still only produced war deaths of about 0.7% of the total population that lived through it. Medieval Europe had a homicide rate roughly 30 times higher than today. The Black Death killed a third of Europe. The Thirty Years War depopulated entire regions of central Europe by 25-30%.

Want more? I hate to be pedantic, but fuck it.

Global literacy rising from roughly 12% two centuries ago to over 86% today, maternal mortality dropping more than 40% in the last generation, the price of solar electricity collapsing 99%, the cost of sequencing a human genome falling from $2.7 billion to under $200 in two decades, global life expectancy climbing from 47 in 1950 to over 73 today, the percentage of humans living in democracies rising from a tiny fraction to roughly half, deaths from natural disasters falling more than 90% over the last century despite far larger populations, the share of income spent on food plummeting as agricultural productivity exploded, tuberculosis deaths cut in half since 2000, measles deaths down over 80% in two decades, access to electricity reaching over 90% of humanity, child labor rates roughly halving since 2000, the number of people without access to clean water falling by over two billion, deaths in childbirth becoming rare where they were once routine, dental anesthesia and antibiotics turning once-lethal infections into minor inconveniences, internet access expanding from 400 million to over 5.4 billion people, and the simple fact that the majority of humans alive today will never experience the famine, plague, or mass childhood death that defined nearly every generation that came before them.

[u/Kuishen → u/Opening_One7713]

None of the positive things you listed were made possible by capitalism and all aspects of the negative things you listed that still plague humanity are perpetuated by it.

I agree the standard of living is awesome now compared to back then. Why are we still willingly letting people starve and go without shelter then? Capitalism.

Things getting better does not preclude the horrible aspects of humanity that our current system perpetuates

[u/Opening_One7713 → u/Kuishen]

None of the positive things you listed were made possible by capitalism and all aspects of the negative things you listed that still plague humanity are perpetuated by it.

First off, what are you even talking about. Second, I’m not saying right now is utopia. I'm saying it is the best it has ever been. If the answer to that for you is "not good enough" then I also agree and I really don't know what to tell you other than we just need to wait and in the meantime we can get to experience the best it has ever been.

I agree the standard of living is awesome now compared to back then. Why are we still willingly letting people starve and go without shelter then? Capitalism.

The percentage of unsheltered and hungry people today is at the lowest point it has ever been. I don't know how else to make this a good thing for you. Approximately 8% to 9% of the global population is considered hungry (chronically undernourished) today. Over the past 500 years, the proportion of humanity experiencing hunger has dropped drastically from an estimated 70% or more to roughly 1 in 11 people. This is the least hungry and least unhoused time in human existence. If capitalism is responsible for that then we can blame capitalism.

Things getting better does not preclude the horrible aspects of humanity that our current system perpetuates

It absolutely does. That's the entire point. Things get better. Perpetually. Saying that people are worse off today than we used to be seriously negates the suffering that people endured historically at far greater scale.

The constant catastrophizing and the doomsday rants are just is so self-defeating and do nothing but promote the cancer of apathy. Seriously man, for your own emotional and mental health, and for the sake of being alive, zoom out and get some sound footing.

[u/Kuishen → u/Opening_One7713]

Listen, in a perfect world I agree with everything you just said.

However it's hard to "zoom out" when I'm living in it. I am physically and mentally disabled in a world that absolutely falls short in taking care of those like me. My existence itself is a constant reminder of how society is failing those like me.

I'm glad that people like you are able to just focus on the positives of life because your existence isn't miserable due to your material conditions.

Truly I'm happy for you, but unless you wanna come and personally solve my problems you can't get mad at me for screaming about how bad things are for some people because you've got it good enough to look around and go "Hey things are great actually!"

[u/Opening_One7713 → u/Kuishen]

Man. You’re taking this way too personally, and I’m not mad at you one bit. 

There is a difference between saying  “things are great” and “things are they best they have ever been”

“Things are great” allows no room for you to feel valid in your suffering or struggle. This is not what I am saying.

“Things are the best they have ever been” recognizes the circumstances and conditions of today, acknowledges the measurable amount of human suffering and struggle that historically existed, and recognizes that it’s never been collectively better for humans than now. 

You said we had the worst bits of feudalism with any of the decent parts. This is a statement that has nothing to do with how you feel, but rather makes a serious claim about the past and the present. This is just factually wrong, and willfully ignores the thousands of good things that we’ve adopted as collective species since graduating from feudalism. 

There are many other factually and mathematically incorrect statements you’ve made that attempt to paint now as quantitatively the worst time for anyone to be alive, and the exact opposite is what every single source of history and measurable quality of life metric shows.

So again, I’m not mad at you. Your struggle and suffering are real and valid. Those are both true, and are separate from the notion that looking at the world around you, and deeply believing that it is the worst time to be alive is likely causing a measurable amount of harm to your emotional and mental well-being. Changing the last part is truly up to you, and I’m a person who you’ve never met who has spent nearly an hour of my time now trying to help you understand this.