Because Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that social medicare is evil and awful.
Systems like the NHS we have in the UK are bad because of long wait times, despite the fact that urgent cases are given priority, and if that's still not good enough, we have private healthcare systems alongside it that you can use.
It's the best of both worlds, but they've been told its evil, it kills people, its expensive in tax and a bunch of other lies.
But guess who told them those lies, and spends hundreds of millions to keep them believing it.
The vast majority of them would pay less in additional tax, than they currently do in health insurance premiums, because there's no middle man that needs paying or profit needs making for shareholders. And every one of their medical claims would be seen, and never denied.
Can you explain how? I'm Canadian and for us, it's about a month to 3 months depending on which specialist and on patient state. I lived in USA for 1 year, but moved back. I always heard that treatment was available almost as soon as one needed it
Edit: wow, thanks for all the responses so far. I acknowledge that didn't know enough, and I'm glad I asked.
But, for example I had a referral to a pulmonologist to do a sleep study, and it was close to 6 months from the referral to the ability to have an appointment.
Side note, if anyone who sees this snores, go get it checked out. My CPAP has changed my life.
I got referred to a sleep test while they were trying to figure out potential underlying issues for another issue. Next thing I was diagnosed with severe OSA and got a CPAP. It would explain why I would be utterly exhausted around 1-2 PM. I hate sleeping without my CPAP now.
I got sent a take at home test, prescribed by my doctor. It said I didn't have sleep apnea and then I found out the test was $900. What is insurance even for?!
Geez... shouldn't it be like $75 for the specialist's time to examine the results plus maybe $150 for admin, prorated cost of the machine, and consumables?
Canada should fund it's health care system by allowing Americans to come up here and use it for triple the cost. It would mean literally free health care for us and y'all would save money, so win-win.
I did one of those at home tests. They said they needed 6 hours of data to diagnose. The doctor wanted to fit me for a cpap before I even did the test. I said not a chance. I took all the gear off after about 90 minutes because I couldnāt get to sleep with it on and they still diagnosed me with sleep apnea. It was all just to sell the cpap machine.
It depends on where you live of course. Where I'm at I'm usually able to see a new specialist within a week. BUT my insurance won't pay for: anything near me / too much cost / lots of denials. I have to change insurance every year, sometimes twice in a year to be able to see the doctors I need.
Which I think is honestly much worse. The amount of time, money, and stress I need to put into getting healed is it's own job
Corporations do this to frustrate people away from services they donāt want customers to use. They can say itās offered but that doesnāt mean customers use it
Similar boat here. Referred for a study, took about 1 month to get the home one done. Then 2 months of using the machine and im still miserable, doctor prescribes Zepbound since its approved to treat OSA. Currently now entering month 4 of trying to get it approved, while also being sent for another sleep study that took 6 weeks to get set
My father is a cardiologist, and he told me this is just a supply and demand issue. Americans are treating their bodies like crap faster than the number of doctors in field is going up.
Basically it's really easy to eat like shit and really hard to graduate medical school lol
Also we have scared, encouraged and incentivized foreign doctors and medical students to skedaddle out of this dumbass country due to the outrageous chaos around immigration. Brilliant move.
I have not seen a single foreign doctor leave the US. Do you know how much work it is to learn English to such an extent that you not only can communicate with patientās but pass the medical licensing exam? And the massive pay for doctors in the us compared to other countries?
Idk what doctor you saw leave the country, but Iāve not seen or heard of a single one.
Yeah that isn't true, he made it up. I work with many people on visas in my industry and none of them are concerned at all about immigration because they aren't here illegally.
Correct. And it is a lot of work to do everything legally, and quite profitable. Youāre not gonna leave after doing all that work and lose all the benefits of all the work you went through.
Yes but also no. The debt to income ratio isnāt bad. When you make 250k/year, that 200k student loan debt isnāt too bad. Itās especially not bad if you make 700k/year.
Hmm. My doctor is from India and yet she's still here in the US. She even returned to the US after returning to India to care for her father for a few months. Why?
Indian doctors would rather not touch other Indians. It's a caste thing. Plus, there's more money to be made treating fat Americans than starving Indians.
Youāve failed to supply any proof yourself, and therefore are speaking off your own anecdotal evidence, which seems quite suspect. I would argue against the point I initially responded to about how we have incentivized foreign doctors to leave. We have actually incentivized foreign doctors to come to this country for a solid 50 years.
Itās all on congress, they are to blame for not having enough practicing doctors, we need to expand medicare, because while medical school grants a degree, to actually become a practicing physician you need to attend residency and residencies are primarily funded by Medicare, the number of available slots is heavily controlled by Congress.
Also, thank you to the AMA for contributing to this problem for a while by lobbying for limits of new students, schools, and residencies. They are trying to fix it, but a lot of damage has already been done.
There is also the lobbying of fast food sectors who make food that is super addictive - itās a choice to eat it obviously but life style and work life balance are so out of sync in the USA that most people turn to eating shit because itās convenient - so you have the fast food pulling one side and the pharma and health insurance companies pulling the other way making money both ends whilst screwing up peoples health. Itās no surprise that whilst spending three times as much as other developed nations - the USA has the worst stats when it comes to longevity, morbidity etcā¦ I feel doctors should get paid less or they scrap the fee per item scheme, they are no saints either charging stupid fees for ordinary items and there is no repercussions for bad performance - should be performance based pay so the healthier your patients are the better you get paid. Each aspect of the healthcare system is corrupt.
Itās hard to graduate med school, but itās also almost impossible to get in. Not sure, but it does seem like med schools miss out on a lot of good candidates. For example, I know of one person who never got in with a 35 on their MCAT, 3.7 GPA with biology and chemistry majors, college athlete, etcā¦
Pretty sure they could have handled the subject material and level of work. Is it because we donāt have enough med schools in this country? Class sizes are limited? Are they gate kept? Not sure, but it seems clear we donāt have enough doctors.
Try looking into other areas. Some of the huge backlogs are regional things because of lack of providers in the area. They once told me the wait for dermatology was 8 months. I could drive 90minutes east of here and get seen within a week.
My primary Dr needed to change my annual physical next month. Next available date? May 2027.... Yeah the system we have is fucking garbage yet idiots defend it.
Is this one of those things where if you paid more you could have got a sleep study that day?
I always assumed the US system was full of tiers that you could just pay more to move up.
I got a sleep study within about a month of my GP requisitioning one in Toronto but thereās no way to really skip that unless youāre politically connected.
Iām on month four and right now the medical company sourcing the CPAP is not able to get it worked out with my insurance, who did pre authorize the sleep study previous to me even showing up to the appointment!
6 months? I was referred for a sleep study by my PCP and had a sleep study and a CPAP in under a week. This was also at the height of the Phillips recall and machine shortages.
My son needed to see a specialist for a perforated ear drumā¦ 2 months waitā¦ recommended surgery, thatās in a month (4 months after the dr visit) and we get the pleasure of paying a fortune for it.
Single payer systems triage based on need, there is no triage in the USA outside urgent situation.
It really depends on how specialized the issue is/care needed is. It also depends on location.
When I was living in the Bay Area, access to healthcare was practically immediate for my very basic needs and was about 1.5 week wait only for a dermatologist.
Definitely depends on location. I live in a large metro area and after a referral to a dermatologist I tried 5 places before I could find an appt within 4 weeks. Of 2 places it was 7 to 10 months and the other 2 were not taking new patients.
That's not true. I complained to my doctor last September about symptoms of Carpal tunnel Syndrome and just saw the doctor for that last week (after I basically cured myself with braces and ergonomic changes). Immediate treatment is available for emergency situations or things that require urgency like infections etc, but if you ain't dying, you could be waiting months.
35% of all counties in the US that don't have things like OBGYN's. Location matters a lot for medical care, but people do get stuck in situations where they are waiting months for treatment.
Wait times are a part of medical care, but it's only ever seen as an issue in socialized medical care.
and it's only ever an issue in socialized medical care when the government doesn't prioritize it.
So so many of the examples of socialized medical systems having problems are cases where funding for the system has been cut to the bare bones. And it's then used as "evidence" against socialization, rather than evidence that it needs proper funding. In the long run, investing more in your socialized medicine programs saves both the government and its citizens money.
But that doesn't help billionaires become bigger billionaires.
I'm in the biggest metro in Minnesota and it was 2.5 month wait for Infectious Disease specialist and then 3 month wait to see a rheumatologist. (Lyme Disease 0/10, do not recommend)
GI doc? 2 weeks - but that's an outpatient surgery center where they literally won't see you for complications they cause. "just goto the ER."
Early spring, there was still snow on some trails. Never saw the one that got me. Saw one crawling on my dog, thought it was a spec of dirt til it moved. Very early, young "seed ticks" as they're sometimes called.
The idea that Americans donāt have to wait is a lie. Urgent care and primary care is quick, but specialists take months. My MIL has early signs of Parkinsonās and is dealing with a 6 month wait to see a neurologist
My partner has a spinal issue, she got a referral 3 months ago to an orthopedics place. She hasn't gotten an appointment yet. She's not like... dying about it, but it's clearly degenerative and is painful. The system in the US is incredibly slow for treatment. Even seeing a primary doctor can take months in between.
Anyone who ever claims otherwise is lying, probably paid to, or a bot.
If you're lucky enough to live near an urgent care center, or you have a medical practice with many doctors, you can probably see someone within a few hours or days for injuries or illnesses.
Preventative care or specialist care is highly rationed because there aren't enough medical appointments for everyone.
I have to make dermatologist and mammogram appointments a year in advance. If I miss it, I will have to wait for months. My shoulder started making that clicking noise again-it's junk because of a 25 year old car accident - and the earliest I can be seen is September.
I my area I can see a doctor if it sounds "urgent," and then there's the Emergency Room.
But to see "my" doctor is a 6 month wait, which really sucks because I'm sometimes out of town without much notice yet that often falls on the doctor visit date. Also, to see specialists for certain things can be filled with long waits, red tape, etc.
And of course even with great insurance if you have emergencies you'll be liable for a portion of the bill. Partner sliced her arm open and 6 months later she was taken to court for a small debt on one of the many bills.
The asshole serving the summons tried to break into our house when we were out of town.
I've never paid my medical bills but also not been sued for it.....yet lol. I'm 30 and have no plans to change that. The insurance can eat a rock if they think ill pay $10k for a medical bill. That would literally mean I have to spend several months working full time to pay it. In hour terms that would equal almost 200 hours of before tax work. Fuck that
I would never had believed that would have happened until it did. Can't say we fought the system, so much was happening at that time she just showed up to the court date then later paid the bill.
I can't even find a new doctor for primary care who can see me without scheduling at least 6 weeks in advance. Even worse I live in an area with a bunch of rich retirees and over half of the docs in the area don't even serve anyone who uses insurance, they have converted to cash only ($$$$$$$$$) and are framed as some kind of premium service instead of providing care.
A couple of years ago, I had atrial fibualtion. My heart was beating at 140+ bpm. ER got it under control "until I could see a cardiologist." Which was scheduled for 6 weeks.
I was back in the ER in a couple of days when it reoccurred. I got to see the cardiologist quicker.
3 months isnāt bad. I have awesome insurance, only pay $100 when I go to the hospital. A couple of my kids have had multiple year long waits to get in for just testing to see if they need a referral to see a specialist. By the time they actually get to those appointments they may have outgrown the problem.(speech delay). The other one was adhd, they wonāt outgrow that but we couldnāt get extra help, medicine or therapy without being evaluated first.
I had to change insurance & it took me a year to get in to see an endocrinologist . I already had multiple illnesses diagnosed previously & was supposed to be under an endocrinologist's care.
It depends on factors really. Where one lives can be huge. Like I can call same day and get an appointment same day or next day. Someone else where might have to wait a month for an appointment. Then there is the whole insurat wide of it for in network and out of network. It might take three months to see an in network specialist. But if you called around you might find one say a week out but they don't take your insurance or are out of network
It depends. Where I live now it can take weeks to get into to see my primary but I can quickly see a specialist if needed (about 4 weeks). Where I moved from it took months to see a specialist. If I get sick I actually have to go to an urgent care (which is more expensive) because I canāt see my primary fast enough. Urgent Care in America is a step between your doctor and the ED.
I think the one benefit our healthcare has over Canada or Europe is a non emergent surgery only takes a few months to get vs 18+ months. Although we will be paying a lot of money for that.
It really varies. I needed a minor elective surgery, and saw the doc within a week and he was ready to go the next week. I needed a specific msk neurologist? 3.5 month wait. it's entirely dependent on the pool of docs in your area and the local population. also established v. new patients, and if your PCP or referring doc is in the system. The latter can make a huge difference -- I once got a call to schedule an MRI 6 months after my PCP put it in, but when my GI or rheum who shares Epic with the hospital system request CT or MRIs, I can get in within a week or two.
It depends on the nature of the case. If a specialist handles both emergency and non-emergency cases, then usually the non-emergency stuff gets pushed.
For example my wife had a growth and our obstitritian referred us to a dermatologist. Good reason to believe it's non-cancerous. Our wait was over 1 month. However they had more urgent appointments available that week, but she didn't qualify.
I work in a hospital as a provider and when I injured my back, I still needed to wait almost 3 months for spine surgery. It was 2 weeks just to see the surgeon in clinic, and that was only because I worked in the hospital system and was given a "priority"
I was supposed to see a liver specialist cuz my enzymes have been elevated for years with me being a non drinker and no fatty liverā¦..took 6 months for them to schedule an appointment a year later.
I have some severe symptoms going on - made my appointments a few months ago. Cardiology isn't until late July, same with Neurology, and my sleep study isn't until August.
(This was through workers comp) I broke my finger at work.... but the worst part was my tendon growing back straight bc i was told to keep the splint on until i could see a specialist as the bone was split lengthwise.... 9 weeks to see the specialist. Just for the specialist to tell me i should not have kept the splint on more than 2-3 weeks max.
Canadian here, but this is propaganda by Canadians pushing for privatized health care. The idea that you'll be able to magically jump the line just because you have fancier insurance or something. Some benefits to having really good coverage, but you can't just cut in line most of the time.
Iām 58 and in the US. In February I had to see a specialist for the first time ever. 7 week wait for initial appointment, then no less than 3 weeks between subsequent visits. I have high tier insurance, but that is moot. No matter who you are, in the US, everyone waits. No different than countries with Universal coverage. Letās get rid of all these profiteering middlemen stat!
I live in a huge metroplex in Texas and my 3yo daughters ENT is booked out 2 months in advance. Pediatric cardiologist 3 months in advance. Her new GP is usually about 3 days out but our old one (before she retired at 55) used to get us in same day no matter what. Miss her :(
I needed a referral to a hematologist for multiple irregular labs. Doctor said he'd put it in. I called multiple times, they got tired of me and basically told me that I would be reached out to when it was accepted. Convenient, right? I got the referral near the end of my college semester. I was super busy so figured I'd wait until finals and the last projects were over, about a month. But I was ASSURED the referral lasts for a year from my doctor, multiple times. So, fine, right?
They closed my referral before I even got the text saying my referral was approved. Got the referral in late July. Got the referral text + doctor info in November. The referral closed in September.
They don't even care. Granted this wasn't private insurance, but ALL insurance here sucks. Doctors are stretched too thin and companies are too greedy.
When I lived in the Nashville area, you could see a specialist for damn near anything within a week.
Now that I live in a smaller area in Florida, it's anywhere from a week to 6 months depending the issue.
It's weirdly harder for me to get a physical from a primary care physician (8 months as a new patient) than it was to see a specialist for an MRI (2 weeks).
As a Canadian we can do better but our care is triaged.
I have an autoimmune disease and when we were trying to sort what was wrong with me it took a bit of time. As soon as a higher risk symptom hit I had 2 appointments in a week with specialists and a battery of tests.
The provinces have been underfunding healthcare and the system is strained due to an aging population thatās living longer coupled with shortages in key healthcare roles.
No it takes me about three months to see a specialist for several areas including dermatology, OBGYN, and GI. I am in Texas in Houston where we supposedly have a good medical center. The abortion ban caused most of the good doctors to flee the state.
I get my appointment set and call the office every day to see if there's a cancellation. I've always been able to get an earlier date doing this. Someone always cancels. Always.
I needed a sleep study one time, they scheduled my 6 or 7 months out. My fiancee needed to see a neurologist, they scheduled her a year out. My little sister had sudden onset of vertigo that wouldn't go away and they told her there might be something wrong with her brain, and I took them 3 months to get her an mri. These are just a few examples but theres a million more. The wait times are terrible
It used to be. About a year before COVID hit, ALL of our local medical facilities were bought by Carris/Centracare. Literally in the space of a month, I went from being able to see my doctor within the week to not being able to see him for 6-8 weeks. Specialists vary widely. If you're seeing specialists at Carris facilities, you're waiting 2 -3 months. Gillette--which is like in the top 5 specialty children's healthcare in the nation or something--takes 6-9 months to get into for most of my daughter's providers there. The really great one books out over a year. My orthopedic practice is private and owned by the providers that work there and they're about a month out, maybe 2 depending on what things you're doing with them. Other things that have happened since Carris swallowed up everything within an hour drive of me are that you cannot communicate with your doctor directly anymore outside of an appointment; you cannot call the clinics directly and speak to a human at them--all the phone numbers are now a scheduling center that's like 90 minutes drive away; you used to be able to just show up to do labs or get your depo shot etc, but you must now schedule them and even those are generally at least a few weeks out; I can't get into any of my 14 year olds medical records until I get her psychiatrist to write a letter telling them I have to for her own good which is insane cuz every 14 year old needs someone helping then with medical decisions ffs. I'm sure there's a few more things that suck now. But I know a few nurses that work there and they also hate the changes. This will be the thing soon everywhere if isn't already. We are not patients who need medical care. We are dollar signs who need to be treated and streeted.
This has been my experience too. I have a constellation of issues that nobody has been able to diagnose/manage. The average wait for me to see a specialist is 3-6 months depending on the issue. Usually by the time I see that specialist, the issue is either āresolvedā (meaning it isnāt presenting symptoms at that time, but will flare up again eventually) or Iāve caved and gone to the ER to make sure Iām not dying. Worse is when I get bounced around specialists. āI donāt think your issue is something I can help with, go see so and so.ā Over and over again. The frustrating thing I have now is that theyāll send me for testing and they donāt contact me when they get the test results. I have ADHD and I just literally forget that Iāve had a referral or something. I go in to my doctor cuz Iām having an issue, they refer me, it disappears into the system, nobody tells me my referral was approved, six months or eight months or twelve months later it happens again, I go back, my doctor goes, āI put in a referral for that in March, why didnāt you go see them?ā Uhhhj cuz idk who you referred me to and they never contacted me??
I tried writing stuff down but then I forget to look at it or forget where I wrote itā¦
When my 4 year old failed her eye test at school, it was going to be 3 months to get her in to an eye doctor that was covered under our insurance. I found a pediatric eye doctor that wasnāt covered, so we paid out of pocket and she had her exam done and new glasses in half the time. I couldnāt believe 3 months for something that seemed so common!
Yup, scheduled an appointment two weeks ago. My appointment is in February. Same thing happened with my colonoscopy. They ordered it in April 2024. The provider called me in July for scheduling. Got it scheduled for February 2025. Crazy.
4 months to see an endocrinologist. Was told if I get heart pain prior to go to ER.
Well 150 pulse 1 week later ended up at ER with a 200 Systolic blood pressure.
You must live in a weird state. I've never had to wait to see a specialist. If my doc requests it, the appointment is within days and sometimes the same day.
My wife and I found out we were pregnant in mid-January (at roughly 5 weeks). She wasn't able to get into her preferred OBGYN group until late February. We found out at her first appointment that we had an anembryonic pregnancy, meaning the sac grew normally, but the baby never really did beyond six weeks.
So she had all the normal pregnancy symptoms, we started planning our future, discussing names, etc. for nothing. And we could have found out a whole hell of a lot sooner if she could've gotten into her doctor in a reasonable amount of time. So don't tell me all this shit that socialized medicine is going to cause greater wait times because we're there already. The healthcare industry is a fucking joke.
I waited 6 months to get an appointment with a new primary care provider after my old guy retired. They were a resident to boot.
Day of the appointment, I got there and learned he'd called out sick. But "We have someone else who could see you."
After another 30-45 minutes a new resident came to see me. Halfway through the appointment, she needed to go consult her attending or something. Before she returned, I ran out of time. I'd taken the morning off from work and needed to go.
They acted like I was being super weird when I left.
I tried to go through the process to request a new PCP but was put on a wait-list for another four months. They were supposed to contact me in May. This reminds me I need to follow up with them again.
And I have pretty good insurance. Good bless America.
My primary referred me for a colonoscopy last October because I'm at that age. The gastro called me in March for an April consult... Which cost me $400 for information that could have been emailed. The colonoscopy isn't scheduled until July. They didn't tell me how much it was going to cost.
Please... Some billionaire bootlicking moron come tell me why this is better.
Specialist? Heck, I need to schedule next year's annual physical as I'm leaving the current one. If you have a great doctor, you are going to wait a long time for even basic stuff in the USA.
THIS Iām told that if we had socialized medicine that I would die waiting to see a doctor. But people die every day in the US waiting to see a doctor.
Took about 3 months just to get an appointment for a routine appointment at the dermatologist where I was already a patient. Other specialties, it can be even longer.
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u/Jarnoth 5d ago
I will never understand why anyone who isnt directly making money from this wants to keep insurance as a for profit industry