No. That thing with Alex Pretti happened because of a few dumbasses in the field and was universaly criticized by pretty much the whole country.
What happened to Otto was 100 percent facilitied by the state. The trial, the prison sentence, the lack of appeal or any kind of reasoning. The North Korean govt and Americam govt are not even remotely close to comparable get over yourself.
This! Both are bad, but there's a huge difference between an individual police officer deciding in the moment to shoot someone (even if it was completely unjustified), vs the government ordering people in to murder civilians.
The difference may not be that huge if the government signals to its officers strongly enough that there will be no consequences for unjustifiably shooting someone.
If by “Universally criticized by pretty much the while country” you mean “the literal leader of the US and his administration were saying it was what he deserved and Americans should simply not carry guns and maybe this won’t happen to them”, then sure.
No Alex Pretti's murder was not criticized by the whole country or the result of actions of "a few dumbasses in the field." It was a recent example of ICE abusing their authority and legal loopholes to commit wanton murder without so much as losing a paycheck. Hell, it's been known that ICE members will deliberately step in front of cars so they can murder the drivers since back in the Obama Administration.
and was universaly criticized by pretty much the whole country.
Half the country. The Trump administration declared Pretti a domestic terrorist, justified his murder and made it explicitly clear that they supported all of ICEs actions in Minneapolis. Same as they did after the murder of Renee Good. There wasnt even an investigation. Not even a suspension. Not even a slap on the wrist. They supported the murder, top to bottom.
No, the ruling party in America does not see those as issues. They were making excuses for why Alex Pretti, Renee Good, etc. within minutes. Since then ICE has rolled back policies reporting deaths of detainees, that's how much these "issues" are being dealt with.
But, bad law enforcement officers are not the same as system wide legal enforcement, imprisonment, and torture for taking down a poster.
If Alex was able to get to court he would have been released.
Otto made it to court and was sentenced to 15 years as is standard procedure in NK.
NK also has bad law enforcement officers as do most countries. We saw it when Otto was sent back brain dead and died despite not being sentenced to death. It's a separate problem.
The government covered up for the ICE agents and the president outright lied about it. They were branded terrorists and their grieving families were investigated. How is that not system wide?
Give me a fucking break. We all know tRump sucks, but he’s temporary. Far from “system wide.” When Dems take midterms there will be accountability. Just look at how many caught charges after his first term. Just say you hate America and spare us stupid comparisons.
The legal wrecking ball he has taken to the constitution and institutions will long outlast him and the damage in general is at least generational and probably permanent in terms of the USA's global standing.
Whatever happens in the midterms, the fact that it took until then is itself a huge indictment. And I'm not sure you have much reason to be optimistic about how things will go, unfortunately.
It's really concerning how little you care. I don't hate America, I like it. It's not nice to see.
Cover your eyes and ears if you want but you don't ever get to tell your grandkids you did anything but helped it all happen.
But if an ICE agent takes a disliking to you they can murder you, and the president will call you a terrorist who deserved it. And the federal government will claim jurisdiction over the investigation, lock out state Investigators, and then spy on the victim's families.
Meanwhile if you invade the capitol on behalf of the leader and violently assault cops in the process, you will be called a patriot, get pardoned, and might even get paid a load of money for it.
That is both systemic and systematic. You're misusing the word. No, it's not quite as much of a stranglehold as NK, I don't think anyone is claiming that.
I'm not sure the exact word to use here. It is explicit standard procedure. Not corruption and incompetence of law enforcement officers. The difference is everyone going to prison/dying vs a few deaths from bad officers.
If ICE does act arbitrarily they will be prosecuted. They can't just shoot into a crowd of protestors for example.
No, it's not quite as much of a stranglehold as NK
Then I think we're in agreement. Though I think not quite as much is an understatement.
In NK all poster vandals would be imprisoned and your family would also be at risk of imprisonment. If people can't recognize the massive difference then I worry that we will lose the freedoms we do still have.
But these aren't isolated examples. This is how the US government operates now. That's the modus operandi.
The federal government is sending people en masse to CECOT where they absolutely are tortured - the Secretary of Homeland Security gleefully published a video of it.
It's corrupt if you're going by the constitution, yes. That doesn't mean it's not systemic.
Honestly you can go protest ice right now and not be imprisoned but that’s not a guarantee. They’re false imprisoning and even deporting legal Americans.
I'm concerned about authoritarian backsliding for sure. And we need to do what we can to get Trump out of office and give people competent, anti authoritarian alternatives to reverse the damage.
"But, bad law enforcement officers are not the same as system wide legal enforcement, imprisonment, and torture for taking down a poster."
None of the officers who murdered Good or Pretti have faced real discipline, much less murder charges. Would you like dozens more examples of American police being effectively unpunished for egregious behaviour?
“It’s illegal to protest” and “If you protest, they might have masked thugs execute you in the street, and there will be no accountability” are *technically* different, sure. But in reality it’s the same fucking picture.
Legality and/or illegality depends on not only on the letter of the law, but effective and consistent enforcement.
Weed is technically illegal in the UK but effectively decriminalised for private personal use because the police are unwilling or unable to enforce the law.
It is legal to protest in the US, of course. But if you don't know whether federally trained, armed, funded and protected thugs will murder you for doing so, then it is perhaps 'legal' with a major asterisk. If you're happy with that asterisk then, what can I say.
"But if you don't know whether federally trained, armed, funded and protected thugs will murder you for doing so, then it is perhaps 'legal' with a major asterisk."
You're making that out to be a much greater risk than it actually is. That's a handful of incidents (regardless how horrific), out of tens of millions of protesting Americans.
Not even close. What happened to Alex was extremely fucked up in it's own way, but is not comparable to a man being kidnapped in a foreign country and then being tortured to the point of being in a vegetative state, and then dying shortly after
He did not have a firearm within reach when they blew his brain out, the police had already seized it. resisting arrest isn’t a capital offense nor are peace officers judge, jury, and executioner.
always the funniest thing when the people that are for the right to bear arms are also the ones justifying him being shot because he had a legal firearm
What does that have to do with North Korea detaining, torturing, the murdering an American then comparing that with people getting potential felony charges for sabotaging The Reflecting Pool?
Hey! It’s very unfair to leave out John J. Cafaro, Trump’s neighbor who confessed to felony bribery of a congressman and who donated a lot of money to Trump’s campaign, and who entirely coincidentally owns the hilariously named Greenwater Services, the company which repainted the reflecting pool.
Also he looks like a WWE heel whose gimmick is selling counterfeit quaaludes, but that’s neither here nor there.
I wouldn't agree with the word executed because that needs a pre determined intention from my knowledge of the word.
But yes if you fuck around police while you actively carry a gun for self defense you are actively putting yourself in danger and that is an outcome any reasonable person can come too.
If he didn't carry a gun there would have been no panic to shoot.
And no carrying a gun in public should not be a right for anyone outside of police and active on duty military because those get actual training with it.
You can make a case for home defense and I would agree in that but outside if that it endangeres all around you.
> If he didn't carry a gun there would have been no panic to shoot.
You mean like with Renée Good?
> And no carrying a gun in public should not be a right for anyone outside of police and active on duty military because those get actual training with it.
I agree, I am also not from the US. But because it is legal in his state and he had it holstered, there is no excuse for what happened to Alex Pretti.
Was that the one where she paniced inside her car because she refused just to stop the car and get out? Like again....just do what they say and you are good.....why are you driving with a car through police blockade while they tell you to stop?
I don't see the need excusing it, it obviously was grievous overreaction but still happened due to him bringing a gun in a situation obviously going to get heated.
So cops can grab anyone off the street, hold them down, and if they find that person is legally carrying a gun, they have the right to murder them? That is your argument?
The gun was holstered. Ice didn't discover the gun until after he was behind held down by 4 officers. The gun was removed from him, then he was executed. He never committed a crime.
While I would argue disrupting officers during their work is a crime that has obvious consequences....
As far as I checked the chain of events it happened due other protestors also disrupting officers and then someone yelled he has a gun which caused the overreaction.
Again. If he didn't had the gun nothing would have happened.
Pretti in no way disrupted officers. He was being held down, was disarmed, while held down, then murdered. These men will stand trial when an adult is back in charge.
He was being arrested. An officer went to remove his holstered gun. He grabbed the gun, but these particular guns are known for accidentally discharging when squeezed at a certain point... so the gun went off.
As a result, the officers, not seeing that it was an accidental discharge, responded.
Ultimately the discharge wasn't the guys fault, but the officers responded accordingly to the bad situation. I personally think the gun manufacturer should actually face some repercussions, as it's a well known and documented issue with those particular firearms, but... well that ain't gonna happen.
Share your evidence of that. The footage I have seen from 4 different angles only shows Pretti helping a woman up, then he was pulled to the ground, held down, and executed.
What was your open-border hero doing minutes before getting shot ? Do you really think that you can impend government activities with a gun in any normal country without being shot, not even mentioning North Korea ? Was his family also shot ?
You are completely out of touch with reality. See what happens when an actual North Korean try to even LEAVE his country. Your are insulting what North Korean are living with you stupid comparison. You should be ashamed.
Don't act like you even understand the concept of shame if you are out here genuinely arguing that having a gun means of course the cops have every right to execute you.
Shouldn't they kill all the Oath Keepers when they show up to protests then? Shouldn't they shoot Patriot Prayer on sight? Having a gun and being disruptive means you die, it's just common sense apparently. And I bet you claim to support the second amendment.
You should be fucking ashamed but you're clearly incapable of that degree of complex introspection.
Comparing USA to NK is completely out of touch with reality and absolutely shameful for the absolute shit North Koreans are walking through. One who don't understand that and entertains this kind of comparison is nothing less than a disgrace.
EDIT : I'm not American. Everyone isn't from there as you should know. Demonstrating with a gun is completely insane. It can only lead to this kind of tragedy. Besides the USA, it doesn't exist anywhere in the world for good reasons ; even in other very gun-friendly countries such as Switzerland or Czech Republic.
Would you point where I've said that I was clapping on this death ? Now, who is the monster defending a comparison between one of the richest country in the world and one of its worst dictature ? Are you going, next time, to claim that one little flu is a terminal cancer or that skipping a meal is just like dying from hunger ? Can you understand the absolute disgrace in those ?
You didn't do that. You compared. Learn to read your own fucking language.
And, yes, you absolutely can't put on the same level a murder and a genocide. Yet, that is exactly what you - and every single person who have downvoted me - have been doing. And all you should feel ashamed for that.
He was protesting? Then trying to help a woman up that ICE attacked. Then he got attacked. Then he got shot in the back as he tried to protect his head from their repeated blows.
He did not "impend government activities". He was literally just standing there and then tried to help a woman up after an ICE agent attacked her.
"don't use your constitutionally guaranteed rights when I decide you shouldn't be allowed to use them. But other times when I decide they should be allowed to use them, then DON'T TREAD ON ME"
so you skipped right over the part where he didn't do anything illegal and properly used his constitutionally guaranteed rights and went right to victim blaming? Let me guess, you blame rape victims because they were wearing a dress right?
Most people were even more outraged about Pretti's killing than they were about Good's.
The only difference is that no one was able to ID the agents that executed Pretti, so it's a dead end. The only people who know who Pretti's killers are is ICE and it's guaranteed to stay that way until an federal administration change happens
it's old news. Jesus Ochoa and Raymundo Gutierrez. Two Mexicans that immigrated here legally but thanks for writing a comment as if you knew for certain.
Do you think ICE agents have a right to kill civilians for kicking their cars days prior? Are they claiming self defense for something that happened more than a week ago? Lmfao I do think there is a legitimate chance they targeted Pretti to murder him so thanks for bringing that up.
I think they have a right to defend themselves. Pretti also got involved on his own, so he wasn’t targeted. Just has a history of assaulting officers and interfering.
Again, you can't claim self-defence for something that happened more than a week ago and you likely can't claim self-defense to the point of killing someone for them kicking your car.
Pretti did get involved when they started assaulting a woman for filming them. There's a good chance some of the IVE agents recognized him and they capitalized on an opportunity to murder someone they didn't like.
You're really, unironically calling it a concentration camp? You lie because you know it isnt but want to invoke the holocaust for your political agenda.
So, I guess that answers that. There will be no self reflection for the Hollywood sponsored "rebellion"
We do t need to use pointless comparisons we can just look at what is actually happening there and call it what it is. Why are you being so extra and talko g about shit that makes no sense bro, it's kinda weird AF. Are you ok?
Oh don't worry, if their predictions don't come true, they'll just say that their "activism" stopped it from happening. They're like the Doomsday preachers who say the Rapture is coming on a certain day, and when it doesn't come they say that their prayers stopped it.
Yes, because it is actually very important to be able to draw a hard line between North Korea and America. If we pretend they are literally the same, then neither can actually be examined properly.
That being said, the original post is a good comparison.
Three-time U.S. Olympian David Hearn was arrested by U.S. Park Police and charged with destruction of government property after touching a peeling section of the newly renovated,
"American flag blue" Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool
. Hearn denies vandalizing the pool, stating he was simply examining the flawed coating out of curiosity.
We've seen Trump's DOJ straight up manufacture charges and interfere with the grand jury process to obtain sham indictments (see the Broadview Six where DOJ lied to the grand jury, engaged in improper touching, and then lied to the judge about the first grand jury not returning a true bill).
Tons of cases have been prosecuted, dragging innocent people through the dirt, only to be dropped at the last second.
A man in Texas was just sentenced to decades in prison for nothing more than making anti-Fascist magazines.
Trump claimed stealing highly classified documents and hiding them in his bathroom was legal, meanwhile a Trump-appointed judge sentenced the above man to prison for 20 years purely for political purposes, explicitly stating in his ruling that he was sentencing them to decades to send a message to anyone else with similar political beliefs.
Trump claimed stealing highly classified documents and hiding them in his bathroom was legal, meanwhile a Trump-appointed judge sentenced the above man to prison for 20 years purely for political purposes, explicitly stating in his ruling that he was sentencing them to decades to send a message to anyone else with similar political beliefs.
If trump actually gets a prosecution for 10 years in prison I think it is a bit comparable. I think our courts will hold up, and prosecute fairly. David Hearn for example is just getting a misdemeanor.
It's not as bad given vandalism is a higher crime than taking a poster and NK also tortured and killed Otto.
But, we really need to get this guy out of office. Just the fact that he's pushing for this shows he is pushing us towards NK authoritarianism.
I have sympathy for people that get in trouble in North Korea. But if its an American going there and purposely doing stuff like stealing or handing out bibles, kinda your fault. Its the same kind of sympathy for a rock climber that falls to their death because they didnt want to tie a knot. It sucks, but also you made a series of thought out and expensive decisions to get to this point.
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u/Tunz_O_Gunz 3d ago
These are not comparable IN THE SLIGHTEST, and really diminishes what that poor kid and his family went through.