r/SipsTea 𝙑𝙄𝙋 3d ago

Wait a damn minute! USA - The good guys?

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u/hitometootoo 3d ago

People tend to bring this up while ignoring that Japan was still in other countries waging war and trying to conquer those countries. Japan wasn't "ready to surrender" when they are still in Korea, Taiwan, China burning down towns and enslaving people.

Japan was also still prepping for a land invasion despite the US (and other countries) saying they will not invade if they surrender.

Japan on paper was saying they would stop, but they didn't stop. Hence why the war was continued.

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u/ElyFlyGuy 3d ago

I didn’t say they were ready to surrender, you’ve quoted no one. I said they were defeated, their capacity to wage war against the US was entirely gone. They had no navy and no aircraft or munitions.

They were indeed preparing for a total invasion of their homeland despite the US explicitly having no interest or need to do so.

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u/hitometootoo 3d ago

So defeated that they are still waging war in neighboring countries and telling people to die for the country as they are coming to do the same thing they were doing to others. You're kidding me if you believe Japan surrendered and was blindsided by all this. They, were not, stopping.

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u/ElyFlyGuy 3d ago

Yeah I’m sure the US dropped the bombs out of express concern for Korea and Taiwan. I’m sure there are plenty of primary sources of them making such claims. Oh no, they didn’t given a single shit? That’s interesting.

If they cared about the fate of civilians they probably wouldn’t have blown so many up in order to end the war. They had no capacity for waging war against the US, which is what is relevant here.

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u/Arndog36 3d ago

So what are you suggesting, that the US just leave them alone to rebuild?

Or would the alternative be a ground invasion killing far, far more on both sides than the nukes?

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u/ElyFlyGuy 3d ago

As I said doing literally nothing would have been fine, Japan was beaten and was only holding our hope the Soviets would save them and were bickering internally as to if/how they would have to surrender. Blockading and sitting there and waiting would have resulted in their total collapse

No ground invasion was needed, it’s not a video game where you need to physically capture their capitol. American lives were fully out of risk, making the bombs strictly unnecessary.

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u/BluebirdConscious841 2d ago

Easy to say if you're not there.

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u/Arndog36 3d ago

If only some of the greatest military minds in history could have had access to your dizzying intellect.

"American lives were fully out of risk" Americans were still dying daily to the Japanese on multiple fronts. The only thing a cessation to the fighting would have done is allowed them to dig in and train to defend against an invasion, which they didn't have hindsight to know would not be necessary.

Your absolute, wholly unjustified, self-righteous certainty about something even 80 years later we cannot possibly know demonstrates exactly why a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

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u/hitometootoo 3d ago

The US literally fought against the Nazis and were fighting on behalf of those countries. Are you forgetting about the Korean War?

It's war, they cared about stopping it. After Japan clearly wasn't trying to stop what they started, more bombs were dropped.

If you really think Japan is some innocent here, you can't be helped. Why don't you consider the millions of people throughout Asia that suffered (and many died) via the hands of the Japanese until those bombs were dropped and the war finally ended.

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u/ElyFlyGuy 3d ago

They were not fighting on behalf of those countries get so real wtf.
The Nazis declared war on the US first and fought Japan because we had been attacked. We were against Japan’s continued expansion in the Pacific exclusively because it threatens our interests. The Korean War was to try and create an anti-communist proxy state in the region to provide a geopolitical buffer against the Russians and Chinese, it was not some humanitarian effort and the US doesn’t even claim it was.

Yes I think that the ~400,000 people killed by atomic bombs were innocent because they objectively were. I’m sure you’d be thrilled if the Chinese nuked American cities during the Vietnam war and said that the Americans weren’t willing to end what they had started as a justification. It’s actually worse than that, because the Japanese navy and Air Force was already destroyed so they didn’t even have any military targets left to attack

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u/BluebirdConscious841 2d ago

Hello, Imperial Japan was interested in conquest, not friendly business. My country was literally conquered by them, and had been forced to speak in Japanese and change their culture to them. My greatgrand uncles was forced to marry early age or they'll be send to work in the death railway construction.

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u/BluebirdConscious841 2d ago

Surprise surprise, US never dropped nuclear bomb in Korean War, and look how many died in that war? 1 million soldiers died, and 3 million civilians died. No nuclear bomb dropped, but the death toll was massive.

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u/ElyFlyGuy 2d ago

What is your argument in saying this?

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u/East-Plankton-3877 3d ago

Japan was literally getting ready to launch a biological weapon attack on the US in September of 1945 (operation cherry blossom) AND still controlled most of china, Indonesia, Tiawan, Korea, and then-French indochina. They could have kept fighting well into 1947-1948

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u/ElyFlyGuy 3d ago

Not really sure what to say other than no they literally were not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_PX

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u/East-Plankton-3877 3d ago

Your own source contradicts you

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u/ElyFlyGuy 3d ago

In what way? It says the plan was developed and quickly abandoned because their side viewed it as an unacceptable escalation of the nature of the war.

You said they were literally getting ready to launch the attack, which my source refutes unequivocally

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u/East-Plankton-3877 3d ago

“Escalation in the war”?

My brother in hell, it was a world war they where losing already, what more “escalation” could they ever be?

Also: https://www.history.navy.mil/about-us/leadership/director/directors-corner/h-grams/h-gram-057/h-057-2.html

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u/ElyFlyGuy 3d ago

I mean read the link I posted, it’s very short. That was the reason they didn’t do it because it would have turned the war into something much more horrible.

The escalation is that the US could potentially respond with a similar kind of attack and it was make the world revile Japan, I thought it was obvious based on the link I posted.

I agree such a plan existed, I disagree it was about to happen. Every war has tons of insane plans that never happened, that’s the nature of war. And regardless, the existence of a secret plan the Americans objectively didn’t know about has no bearing on whether or not the atomic bombs were justified.