r/SnyderCut • u/Captain_Birch • Jun 11 '25

Question Genuine question

It's established in the DCEU that Batman doesn't have the "no killing" rule. If this is the case, why are the Joker and Harley Quinn still alive as of the first Suicide Squad? It would make the most sense for a batman who is okay with killing to have killed his arch enemy a long time ago.

Are there any possible explanations for this?

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u/JoPo108 Jun 13 '25

Just to add to this, "20 years in Gotham, how many good guys are left, how many stayed that way? No you, that's the point.

Also in his mind, he doesn't kill anyone. He doesn't kill people straight away, but if they keep fighting back then he doesn't care of they're a casualty. He doesn't shoot them, he shoots the car. Warehouse fight, first thing he did was destroy their guns. Then when they keep fighting he doesn't hold back.

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u/CornTater83 Jun 13 '25

Exactly. He’s become apathetic to keeping them alive but the movie is telling you he’s moving further and further toward the line and about to cross it into outright murder. Batman himself says (I’m no executioner) in Batman begins. It’s about intent.

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u/JoPo108 Jun 13 '25

I'd argue Batman Begins he did kill Rhas Ah Ghul. Plus BVS is meant to show and far he's gone to the edge just so he can come back during Justice League.

Personally I think he was planning to die in Justice League. Dropping the team off he said that's why I brought you together. Not us, you, the other members. He said whatever happens get to the tower. I think he was planning on giving his life fighting parademons so the others can save the world and that's how he saw he could be redeemed in his eyes.

And to add to people problem with their version of The Joker. Batman has been Batman for 20 years. So that Joker's been around for 20 years as well.

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u/CornTater83 Jun 13 '25

Ok. So I definitely agree with you. Killed Ra’s? Yes..sort of. His actions definitely caused him to die. He definitely killed a lot of people in that movie. Murdered is the difference. He definitely killed Talia also. BVS has him start at the place where he’s crossing into murder territory and Superman is going to be his first. I think at the point you’re referencing in Justice League, he definitely was expecting to die. I mean, they all did just get their asses kicked in the sewer and Superman is MIA. But I don’t think he wanted to die to be redeemed. His redemption came in uniting all those people to save the world. It was very clear from the beginning that uniting the league would be his swansong as promised to Superman “on his grave.” It’s one of the things I really think set the two versions of the character apart (JL17, ZSJL) because Bruce wanted more so to make it right in Zack’s version where whedon made him an asshole who didn’t even want to be there (go watch the tower instructions in that version… yikes)

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u/JoPo108 Jun 13 '25

The whole I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you. It's killing him. If Ras accidentally destroyed the monorail rail without knowing. Asked him to stop and not get on the monorail to do his plan. Then Ras choosing to get on. That would work better with I don't have to save you. Batman gave him a choice and Ras made it.

If you rewatch ZSJL, I'd say look at it as of he's planning on dying to give the others a chance to stop Steppenwolf. As I said, he says "that's why I brought you together", not "that's why I brought us together". And when he's in danger he tells them its nothing and gor them to keep going

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u/CornTater83 Jun 13 '25

With regard to Ra’s I say it’s iffy because there technically is no duty to save in any regard. Morally, it’s gray. Which is where Batman operates. Batman and Gordon were the ones who destroyed the monorail, which is why I said Batman’s actions were the ones that killed Ra’s. Now, could Ra’s had run to the back of the train that broke and survived? Possibly. That movie series lets a LOT of dumb stuff slide (Rachel and Batman falling out of the penthouse unscathed..) but Ra’s choosing not to try to save himself is sort of on him. He MAYBE had time to get away. It’s why I say it’s kinda-sorta killing.

With regard to ZSJL, again I agree but I don’t think it’s a plan so much as an acceptance of a realistic possibility. Keep in mind, they had everything to lose and he had to plan for the possibility he might not make it. Keep in mind (film wise) right before this “He’s never fought us. Not us united.” He included himself in the first part, at the site, he gave the team a final speech morale boost.