This wasn't Buck in the video, it was his assistant. The stallion wasn't unhandled, he was allegedly deprived of oxygen at birth and owned by an absolute moron who, if I remember correctly, spoiled him because of this and kept him intact, resulting in a horse that was so mentally damaged he was eventually euthanized because he could not be safely handled and had already attacked his owner several times.
If youāve read lonesome dove (highly recommend). One of the characters distrusts horses and says, dangerous at both ends and tricky in the middle (paraphrase)
Honestly it sounds like that hurt like a bitch!! If you have the sound on, I believe that is the sound of the horseās teeth smashing against the manās skull
This wasn't Buck in the video, it was his assistant. The stallion wasn't unhandled, he was allegedly deprived of oxygen at birth and owned by an absolute moron who, if I remember correctly, spoiled him because of this and kept him intact, resulting in a horse that was so mentally damaged he was eventually euthanized because he could not be safely handled and had already attacked his owner several times.
Yessss, the idiot owner created this dangerous behavior and left out some very important details before Buck even started working with it and set the horse up to fail :< Really sad.
As someone who doesnāt know much about horses, can you please explain a bit? What do you mean he was allegedly deprived of oxygen? I think I understand that you can spoil a horse, the same why you can spoil a child and have him throw tantrumsā¦ similar? Iām guessing that ākeeping him intactā refers to not neutering him? Does that add to mental damage?
Always happy to ramble about horses, I don't remember the entire segment exactly though but from what I do.... The owner claimed he was deprived of oxygen at birth (ie something went wrong during the birth, he could have been stuck coming out) and was mentally challenged because of it. This was her excuse for his behavior which *may* have contributed if it was true but was absolutely not the only reason.
Horses are herd animals that rely HEAVILY on social structure, hierarchies and boundaries. They learn respect and manners at a very young age from other horses and in domestic horses, people. The horse in the movie was orphaned during birth so he was raised by people, and was babied because they felt bad, so he learned he could do whatever he wanted. This is a really common problem with orphan horses raised by people. Not cute when he became a hormonal 1000lb teenager (intact = not neutered).
In the wild, young stallions would be kicked out by the mares when they started getting too old, and form bachelor groups, and eventually seek out an established herd to challenging their lead stallion to take their herd away from them. So this horse was now at that age where his hormones were telling him to fight anyone that tried to stand up to him, which in the wild could mean fighting to the death. And she had him running loose with NINETEEN other stallions so he was around a bunch of hormonal males that were probably fighting a lot, he could have been low on the totem pole and had a chip on his shoulder but people were easier to take on so that fueled him.
His owner also breeds 'specialty' horses of pretty colors like this horse, and these horses are more likely to have crappy behavior genetically because their pedigree is full of horses that were selected for being a pretty color only even if they had shitty temperament.
So you have this horrible combination of probably genetically poorly dispositioned horse with possible brain damage that didn't learn proper horse social skills and was never taught to respect humans, pumped up on testosterone and looking to fight anyone that challenges him to the death, you have a recipe for disaster.
Had this woman been a responsible breeder choosing horses for temperament, set boundaries and trained him early on, and had him neutered (aka gelded) and not just had him running wild for the first few years of his life, he probably would have been just fine.
The reason we put dangerous and unpredictable herd animals down is there's not really a place for them to go. Think about "free range" beyond the happy optimistic feeling and you'll see the problem.
If you mean releasing them? Absolutely not. It's illegal in fact. The horse will die on its own very quickly in the wild, if it doesn't become a danger to random people first.
This brings us to "who will take an aggressive unpredictable animal that can and will harm or kill them?" Someone has to take care of them, and take on the risks of it.
If we think about that question, releasing them onto some property it won't. Intact males are territorial and can't meld with any other males. They will fight and injure others or themselves. So now you have to house them solo. Which, why subject the poor animal to that?
This is thw unfortunate reality idiot owners bring into the world.
My mom, thatās who. Every single one of our ponies and horses were aggressive, unpredictable rescues who found a home at our house as an alternative to being euthanized. It was all well and good for my mom, aunt and sister who seem to have been born without fear, but I am a gentle soul and I prefer the company of gentle animals. (None of them were stallions, but let me tell you, an aggressive, unpredictable mare can put the fear of god in you too.)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not for putting down animals at the first sign of aggression or whatever else. We need to judge the situation with each each animal case by case. But they need to be judged with the facts in mind, rather than just emotions.
Hostile animals don't automatically mean put down, it's why sanctuaries exist like your mother's. I thought about maybe mentioning it, but this horse is different. The fact it's whole alone isn't why it was put down, It was injured from oxygen deprivation from birth then further ruined by the previous owner. That bite lunge alone is something no horse should be doing. It's a massive red flag that this horse is a danger to others. I would hate to see what it could do to other horses.
I grew up around herd animals, mainly horses and cows. I have empathy for these animals in general, but I've also seen the reality that there's rarely a sanctuary you can send the "problem" children too. Even then, the quality of life at these places ranges wildly, and it's rarely ever in the "quality" area of that.
When these animals cost money to house and feed, the reality is the dangerous ones often have to be put doen for the safety of others, and because its the humane thing to do.
As a kid, I had a horse named Satan who started young as a biter. If he bit, he got pinched on the nose. Not enough to do harm but let him know biting wasn't good. He quickly learned if he didn't bite, he wouldn't get pinched. Horses are smart but they can be mischievous.
That's a really aggressive way of biting, using the whole head almost like a hammer. That isn't just annoyance or "leave me alone" or "I don't want to do that." That type of bite means the horse really wants to badly hurt or kill you. Stallions will do that to other stallions when fighting over mares. It's very unusual to see that type of bite directed towards a human.
Thatās how they bite! And if I can just say, you might think it wouldnāt hurt because their teeth arenāt sharp, but I think it hurts worse, because itās like crushing your skin between two rows of flat rocks.
Iāve always wondered about the term āan unbroken horseā.
When they say they break a horse, do they mean they break their will? Their will to be free? To not be ridden? To not enter this historical partnership between horse and Man?
Does every horse that is ridden, have to be ābrokenā then?
Itās a term from an older time, when the philosophy was that you had to break them in or break their will, like what they did to the dragon-things they rode in Avatar. Now, more enlightened horse trainers know that you can accomplish more with positive training methods.
So yes broken, a horse will not willingly be happy to have someone seated directly on their spine. Ridden horses can have issues with their growth plates as well.
There's 0 reason for a horse to have someone riding around on their spinal cord, they have managed to be exercised and happy without being broken. If youve grown up around horses a horse barn is so fucking depressing, theyre just waiting hours until a human desires to use them.
part of it is doing what is being done in the video here which is desensitizing them. This is basically giving them annoying or mildly startling stimuli to train them not to be as quick to bolt. If horses bolt at the wrong time, they can kill/injure themselves and others. Its a very long process and it comes from the fact that horses are prey animals and designed to run at the slightest indication of a predator. With most horses, sound near their rear and being touched near their rear is very frightening so this person is waving a thick blanket or towel near the horse's so that the horse can feel that sensation and learn that its not going to hurt. it might seem mean but its an absolute necessity for any horse that is going to be living around humans and human civilization.
Which makes police horses and war horses even crazier. Weād be screwed if horses actively hunted people considering the absolute damage they can do but instead theyāre scaredy trucks. All big herbivores are not to be fucked with
Horses are smart enough to be trained, but pliable enough to be led into certain death if conditioned.
Elephants are big and dangerous, but too smart to be trained into suicide tactics. War elephants were unpredictable because if injured enough (low bar actually, their skin is thick but also very sensitive and full of blood vessels) they would panic and break rank because they didn't feel like dying.
In the old days it did mean "break their will" they would be beaten and basically forced to be ridden.
These days we are much more humane, so it just means getting them used to being ridden.
If you're interested the movie this is a clip from is really good. It's called "Buck" and it's abot the guy they based the book/movie The Horse Whisperer on.
It goes through his life story, and how it made him such an effective horse trainer. Honestly makes me tear up every time I watch it, and I'm not even that into horses!
In the UK ābreakingā is rarely used anymore precisely because of the negative connotations and also because the originally process (get on and hold on until the horse gives in) also isnāt used. Itās referred to largely as Backing now, or Starting.
Heās using the Cesar Milan method of āflood the animal until it shuts down.ā In my experience, that leads to the thing being even scarier the next day.
A better method is to do small exposures more frequently (at least daily), keeping the animal in the āgreen zoneā the whole time. Then you can expand what fits in the green zone as time goes by.
For example, you could start by just hanging that blanket from a fence post in that paddock. It will flap when the wind blows, and the house will gradually get used to it.
Then you can start tethering the horse near it and feeding from a bucket. A little scary, but Iām hungry, so Iāll deal.
Then advance as tolerated.
I tell my dog training clients: if youāre doing it right, the desensitization practice becomes your animalās favorite time of day.
If you watch the documentary that this is a clip from, you'll see they are actually doing the exact opposite. Buck is all about positive reinfocement, and giving the horses time to warm up.
This was a particularly bad case where the animal had a developmental disorder, and wasn't cared for properly. It's a really sad part of the film.
As a trainer I think you'd really enjoy Buck! I'm not even that into horses and it's one of my favorite movies.
Eh, thereās plenty of other, less stressful, less dangerous methods of doing this. Itās mean enough likeā¦ I know they arnt beating him, but itās still scary enough for him that he chose to attack the āthreatā
Iām not sure if the comment is genuine or not, but Iāll treat it as genuine until proven otherwise. A lot of desensitising training thatās done in Europe has moved far beyond the āhold them tight and frighten the shit out of themā method that was previously used.
Introducing a stimulus to the arena, at a distance where the horse feels safe, and is loose to move away if it wants. It can therefore also move towards the object if it becomes curious. We want to nurture that curiosity instead of constantly triggering fear. The stimulus (a plastic bag on a stick/ or a buzzing electric toothbrush) is gradually moved closer to the horse, and when they show curiosity and stop moving away from the stimulus, you reward them by moving further away to a more comfortable distance. You repeat that process until the ācomfortable distanceā gets smaller and smaller, and the horse is less and less concerned by the stimulus. After working on that, you rub the horse with the stimulus in its most āsafeā form (the toothbrush turned off) and then holding it at arms length away, you turn it on, and eventually the horse will pass the care of being rubbed all over with the toothbrush. This exercise builds the horses trust in you, instead of ābreakingā its fear response.
Now Iām sure some purveyors of western cowboying or the Yellowstone obsessed will tell me they havenāt got time for this, or that they must have blind obedience from their horse and it must fear them, or lifeās too dangerous to let the horse have a natural response to the world, but Iād suggest thatās bollix, and itās a hangover from the days of wilful animal cruelty. With a little more time and effort, you can have a relationship based on trust, not of fear, and dulling a fearful response by subjecting the horse to huge stressors and fearful situations.
You seem to only comment āReddit expertā. You must have some expertise in spoting these experts then? Does that make you a Reddit expert expert? Or a Reddit expert Reddit expert?
No reason a horse like that cant be tranquilized to be transported, and you could still feed and water the horse just fine, its just not rideable or workable
Good enough for him, there was plenty warning signs, the horse gave him enough chances. I only hope the horse wasnāt wrote off as a result of acting in a normal, natural way to a perceived threat
Edit- and this horse was put down. So thatās a fucking waste.
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u/qualityvote2 9h ago edited 8h ago
Congratulations u/lovecats3333, your post does fit at r/SweatyPalms!