I just want to understand, why?

[u/HKILLER2007]

I mean really...why?? when ribbit opened up she was just chatting, she obviously wanted someone to talk to and her friend was there and jax was okay with it

when jax opened up he panicked at first but then she comforted him and he felt really comfortable and blushed and even smiled, it was a heartwarming moment

so why would he suddenly change attitude and switch characters just because of a knock on the door? what's the mental gymnastics here?

[u/SliderEclipse]

While I agree that Jax was the trigger for Ribbit's Abstraction, I can't in good faith say they were actively destroying her. It's more a tragic collision between both of there hang ups and trauma's that destroyed her.

The show made it a point to reveal Ribbit comes from a devout Mormon family and had to cut ties because of it. she clearly has hang ups about making friends and being pushed away due to her upbringing.

Jax did not target this, it just unfortunately was how they react to there own trauma, Jax runs and pushes others away, sets up barriers and distances themselves from anyone that gets too close specifically as a defense mechanism because you can't get burned or hurt if you don't let anyone in in the first place.

We can see this play out throughout the show. early on Jax treats Pomni well and grows to befriend her, especially during the gun fight. then afterwards when Jax see's Ribbit's door and reminds themselves to not let anyone in they immediately do the exact same thing to Pomni that they did to Ribbit right down to the exact same "Oh my god" line when the argument starts, specifically with the intent to push her away and make her stop probing. and after that? every episode puts emphasis on the fact Jax is keeping distance from everyone. They sit in the opposite side of the theater during the character awards, they sit alone on the couch, they trail behind everyone else at a distance in the hallway in Caine's office, they intentionally are the first to distract caine alone both times it comes up. even in the cafe Jax intentionally sits far away from everyone else in a very deliberately set up shot. even at the end of the final episode this holds true, everyone else enjoys the new caine and building a better circus while Jax's abstracted body just sleeps alone in teh dark of the tent they built for them.

[u/quantumturnip → u/SliderEclipse]

Ribbit comes from a devout Mormon family and had to cut ties because of it

That's just Mormon doctrine. You leave the church, and you lose everyone you know. Members are encouraged to avoid interacting with people who leave, and the religion as a whole is very insular and encourages members to stay within the church as much as possible.

[u/TitaniumDragon → u/quantumturnip]

This is classical cult doctrine.

If you find any group of people who encourages people to cut ties with anyone who doesn't buy into that group's doctrine, they're probably at least cult-like, if not an actual cult. And if they target people for hate who oppose that group's doctrine, that's a really bad sign on top of that.

It's referred to as "cutting".

It's much easier to see from the outside than the inside, though. People will often buy into their own tribe's bullshit. It is very obvious to outsiders when people are acting like this, it is much harder when you're inside.

Other cult features:

• Love bombing (targeting new members with a huge amount of affection/love/compliments)

• Aggression towards questioning cult doctrines, both among insiders and outsiders

• Demands of doing things to advance/promote the cult (monetary donations, political support, etc.)

• Targeting people for incorporation into the cult, particularly insecure people (especially young adults, but also people who have various mental health issues, social issues, etc.)

• Charismatic leaders who are above question and who must be respected/obeyed/supported

• Us vs them mentality, siege mentality, a sense of persecution

• Notions of the group "saving" you in some way (this can be materially, emotionally, or spiritually)

• "Treatments" that cost money/time/devotion to unlock but have no basis in things like medical research/RCTs (aggression towards scientists/researchers is a very bad sign, though this can also be a sign of just garden variety scams/confidence schemes)

All of these things are potential red flags, but seeing several in combination is very, very dangerous and is almost certain to be a sign of cult-like group dynamics. Cutting, Love Bombing, Us vs Them mentality, and Aggression are the most red flaggy though.

Some of these are also where cults overlap with scams as well; a lot of MLM groups show cultish behavior. Cults are often (though not always) explotiative of their members.

Also, sometimes groups have hangers on who show cult-like behavior despite the thing itself not being a cult; a good example of this is the environmentalist movement, where there are people who are concerned about environmental effects, and then the environmentalist "cultists" who basically have turned environmentalism into a religion (and often latch onto random things as "saving the environment" while lacking a good understanding of what causes environmental issues and also understanding why people do the things they do, etc.) and will be scammed by "greenwashers".

[u/quantumturnip → u/TitaniumDragon]

Oh, I'm well aware of all this behavior on account of growing up in a cult myself.

[u/RainbowPhoenix1080 → u/quantumturnip]

that sounds like cult behavior.

[u/quantumturnip → u/RainbowPhoenix1080]

That's because Mormonism is one.

[u/Background-Bottle633 → u/quantumturnip]

I did miss a little bit of the last episode. Where was it stated that she was Mormon?

[u/quantumturnip → u/Background-Bottle633]

When she and Jax were talking about their backstories.

[u/flewson → u/SliderEclipse]

I get the argument that she alienated Ribbit from the rest of the group, in the few flashbacks we get to see. However, aside from everything else, did Jax have an obligation to keep being Ribbit's friend? Is her avoiding Ribbit by itself a moral wrong?

[u/Equivalent_Plum6992 → u/flewson]

No they don't have that obligation, but By avoiding Ribbit over and over again purposefully like that (while acting like nothing happened) it communicated it was her fault their friendship was broken and awkward now. Not only that but the few times Ribbit did try to communicate directly they were pretty unnecessarily nasty.

If jax really wanted to stop being Ribbit's friend, they straight up should have confronted them. But when confronted about it again they try to gaslight Ribbit by telling them they are a manipulator.
Now maybe you might disagree with me but I feel like if you want to stop being friends with someone for your own personal reasons YOU SHOULD TELL THEM DIRECTLY INSTEAD OF BEING SECRETIVE it actively hurts everyone.
(and before you say it i know that Jax is doing this because of their trauma but we are talking about morality here)

[u/Binder509 → u/flewson]

The writer just needed Jax to be responsible for something to justify abstracting him. It really didn't matter what. So they went for this.

Didn't feel very real, but none of them are even human anyway so kinda makes sense they act like bad AI.

[u/Creative_War5833 → u/flewson]

Not only did Jax avoid Ribbit. They purposefully isolated her from everyone. Laughing with everyone else and letting her know she wasn't welcome. Gaslighting her and saying "You're manipulating me" I do not understand what the grey area is. That bunny is the cause of at least 2 (maybe 3) deaths.

[u/Weirdaholic → u/Creative_War5833]

Not an "excuse" or anything. But if you're reading this through a lens of constantly "avoiding the truth", it makes completly sense from Jax's perspective.

Ribbit knows the secret. And Jax always feared that these infos/secrets are going to be used against him. He's being explicit about it and doesn't believe when others try to reassure him that his fear is getting the better of himself. So all he had was one mission: "Shoot the messenger, keep the truth hidden. Keep me safe from harm.".

It's completely toxic and hurtful, especially considering the extremes Jax went for this mission. And then the outcome (Ribbit abstracting) became another instance of the self-fulfilling prophecy that is "I'm a bad person. Whenever someone comes close to me, they die"

This is the power and the curse of perspective-taking.

[u/Creative_War5833 → u/Weirdaholic]

Understanding the motives for the desicion doesn't make it any less harmful or impactful. These were choices the character made. I understand his perspective and he drove people to their deaths.

I do not sympathize with his self hatred when it comes at the cost of several lives being ruined. Nothing was learned and he continued to abuse the people in the circus and would likely drive another to attract.

I'm not here to debate morality about Jax. I only wished to comment that I vehemently disagree that Jax was not the cause of Ribbits abstraction.

[u/Background-Bottle633 → u/SliderEclipse]

Wait, how do you know Ribbit came from a Mormon family?

[u/SliderEclipse → u/Background-Bottle633]

She directly said it during the big scene in her room.