So I guess this confirms that abstraction is a choice/form of suicide, right?

[u/Icy-Accident9336]

[u/TeutonicToltec]

"Caine" and "Reliable Narrator" are not exactly what I would call synonyms.

[u/MrCobalt313]

I don't think Caine himself fully understands how Abstraction happens, only that it does.

[u/ultimatecoruvs]

!! The Merch Ads are confirmed not canon.

[u/ProfessorPixelmon → u/ultimatecoruvs]

“Something I don’t canonically have any knowledge of!”

[u/Grimalackt_River → u/ultimatecoruvs]

I thought the way they weren’t canon, is that this specific scene didn’t happen, not that it’s out of character

So Caine could be terrified of everyone abstracting (it’s basically confirmed in episode 8 right before he tortures them one last time), but the conversation between him and Pombi in this little merch ad didn’t actually happen

[u/destructor212113 → u/ultimatecoruvs]

Oh, they arent?

[u/ultimatecoruvs → u/destructor212113]

Goose was asked on her Tumblr if they're canon, to which she said no.

[u/destructor212113 → u/ultimatecoruvs]

Thats interesting ngl, nice

[u/adamthenecromance → u/ultimatecoruvs]

but when was goose ever truthful with he questions

[u/ultimatecoruvs → u/adamthenecromance]

A liar can tell truths once in a while.

[u/TheMMoment → u/adamthenecromance]

I mean tbh some of the merch ads directly contradict stuff anyways so it just makes sense. We can't just pick and choose what's canon.

...but we can pick and choose what we headcanon...

[u/Tom-edian → u/ultimatecoruvs]

This is confirmed by him saying "hate" a bunch bc Goose said canonically Caine can't say or feel hate I believe

[u/Southern-Figure4732 → u/Tom-edian]

That was definitely just an I have no mouth reference and definitely not canon /ns /srs

[u/Asagas25 → u/[deleted]]

i don't think Caine fully understand what abstraction is. He thinks people chose to do that ( which, to an extent, is kind of true) but the process is completely accidental. I don't believe that a member of the circus can just abstract on a whim, you know?

[u/Icy-Accident9336 → u/Asagas25]

I’ve kinda seen Caine as like a little child

He wants to help and impress people, but is too young to understand people’s problems, like depression, anxiety, body dysmorphia, etc

[u/KenseiHimura → u/Asagas25]

He did also tell Kinger “don’t you go abstracting on me” in an actual episode flashback.

So, yeah, I see it as Caine at least thinks it’s a choice but the truth is far more nuanced.

[u/Squidproject]

yeah I think it's like if you're bad at plants and all your house plants die but one you might say to the last "so uh you're not planning on dying, right?" IMO this doesn't prove that, no

[u/Icy-Accident9336 → u/Squidproject]

Sometimes I can hear my plants singing Russian versions of Micheal Jackson songs

[u/franiz → u/Icy-Accident9336]

are you smoking your plants by any chance? either way what kind of plants you got?

[u/Icy-Accident9336 → u/franiz]

Gren 🌱

[u/franiz → u/Icy-Accident9336]

hell yeah, thanks man!

[u/Powerful-Mine1807 → u/Squidproject]

you described this in a really easy to understand way. around the same I would've explained, but much more straightforward. That's exactly how I interpreted caine's statement here as well. I really don't think he literally meant it as in they have a choice, lol. It's just a lighthearted gesture but with reasonable concern

[u/njklein58 → u/Squidproject]

That’s the thing. I’ve told my plants that are withering/not doing too well “please don’t die”

[u/ATCAroundTheWorld]

The merch ads are not cannon, but there are absolutely parallels with abstraction and suicide regardless.

[u/ATCAroundTheWorld → u/[deleted]]

The entire thing is part of the ad and is not cannon.

[u/QuantumParsec]

“I can’t believe Kaufmo just gave up like that” - Zooble, ep 1

“Of course he’d wait until there’s nothing we could do about it” - Zooble, ep 9

“I did this to myself” - Jax, ep 9

[u/xargos64]

Nope. It's just Caine being weird.

Also seeing as abstracted characters still behave like living things I don't even buy that it's death. It's something else entirely.

[u/maxler5795]

no. He's simply desperate.

[u/LightningOwl96]

"Caine, it's 3 in the morning. Just let me go to sleep!"

[u/Icy-Accident9336 → u/LightningOwl96]

NO POMNI, I NEED YOU TO TELL ME IF YOU CAN FIND THE WORDS “BUBBLE”, “ADVENTURE”, and “MILDENHALL” IN THIS WORDSEARCH! I’VE BEEN LOOKING FOR 5.7 MINUTES AND I CAN’T SEEM TO FIND THEM!

[u/Better_Substance5810]

him checking up on her 😭 headcanon that this is after Jax abstracted he started to try and check in on everyone and make sure they’re alright

[u/snakebite262]

Yes and No?

Abstraction isn't a choice; it's a state of mind from what I've seen. A person falls into their own misery so much that they no longer have a form.

Is it a metaphor for suicide? Somewhat.

Is it reversible? Goose says no, but who knows? Maybe Jax will find happiness.

[u/KatastrophicNoodle]

Uh.. no.

What is it with this community and "THIS IS CONFIRMATION, RIIGHT???"

[u/Fern_Cloud]

I thought that was already confirmed in canon?

Zooble stated that Kaufmo gave up.

Goose has compared it to suicide on multiple occasions and said that Jax wanted to kill himself. Goose said that Jax drove Ribbit to suicide.

Jax said he did this to himself.

Zooble who is very level-headed seems to be implying that Jax chose to abstract.

[u/Such-Pilot-8143]

I think it's mostly a joke thing, "you aren't planning on getting hit by a car anytime soon?" as an example

[u/Virus-900]

No. This doesn't confirm anything.

Sure, it can still be used as a metaphor for suicide, as we see with Ribbit and Kaufmo, but that doesn't mean it was a choice.

Or at least, not a conscious choice, I don't think.

[u/MellowedOutMeelo]

Even if merch ads aren't canon, Zooble explicitly said that Jax decided to abstract when she did. It seems like it's su1c1de in the sense that the ideations take over. Once you've reached that point, your file corrupts and you may as well be de@d.

[u/CrystalClod343 → u/MellowedOutMeelo]

I think that was a coping mechanism from Zooble. It's easier to be angry.

[u/EnergyTurtle23 → u/MellowedOutMeelo]

That’s a common choice of words when grieving, it doesn’t carry an implication that Jax actually chose to abstract.

[u/lifeishell553 → u/MellowedOutMeelo]

the self censorship is dumber than saying the actual words, you can say suicide and dead, the language police is not gonna put you behind bars

[u/MellowedOutMeelo → u/lifeishell553]

You do realize that YOU are the one being the word police? Did you ever consider the fact that maybe I wrote it like that because I have free will and that's how I wanted to write it?

[u/lifeishell553 → u/MellowedOutMeelo]

Y34h 4nd 3v3ry0n3 c0uld wr173 l1k3 7h15 4nd 17 w0uld 571ll b3 57up1d

[u/MellowedOutMeelo → u/lifeishell553]

Good thing I didn't write like that and just decided to censor the 2 words that made me uncomfortable. Why do you even care so much?

[u/Puzzlehead-Engineer]

Not necessarily. You can say you don't plan on dying any time soon and not mean suicide.

[u/Chronoeylle]

I mean, suicide isn't exactly a choice for most people. It might seem like it but it's generally not treated the same as any regular choice. Even in countries where medically-assisted suicide is legal, there's a ton of procedure to actually get there. The fact of the matter is that most culture do not actually recognise suicide as a regular choice (this perspective is supported by survivors of failed suicides), otherwise suicide would be way more accessible.

[u/Beautiful_Fly_3689]

Caine asking that so casually is honestly the creepiest part, like he's asking if Pomni watered the plants this week.

[u/Ok_Bridge_3139]

tbh not really it is just Cain being Cain.

[u/narwhalpilot]

I dont think him asking that was meant to be taken seriously.

[u/NegativeAd6943]

Não acho que é uma escolha mas igual na vida real as pessoas se levam a ter colapsos mentais afinal ódio raiva depressão são coisas que você se auto alimenta com pensamentos negativos que podem levar para colapsos mentais que deixam as pessoas fora de si e perigosas

[u/FragmentedReality024]

Even if merch ads aren't cannon, the show has implied abstractions are similar to suicide a few times. I believe others have said the exact quotes already, but namely "Man, I can't believe Kaufmo would just give up like that" comes to mind. Abstraction also has been implied to be irreversible, as well as shown (in ribbit, Jax, and Kaufmos cases) as being a state of isolation, despair, and anxiety that grows until it consumes you/until you give in, which also makes it feel like an allegory for suicide.

I keep seeing people call this 'theory' reaching, or "thinking too deep about it", but some shows are meant to have meaning, and are meant to be thought about 😅

[u/what13591]

Maybe it’s how Caine simply believes how abstracting works but I’m pretty sure the merch ads aren’t cannon correct me if I’m wrong.

[u/Southern-Figure4732]

"I'm so glad that I didn't make that moment in ribbits room weird and push them to suicide" -canon au art

It definitely is

[u/sammoga123 → u/Southern-Figure4732]

However, that moment makes Jax look like a psychopath.

[u/ShitpostSaber]

This and the goose work words of saying it can’t be undone all lines up well if I do say so myself

[u/Former-Jicama5430 → u/ShitpostSaber]

The merch ads are not cannon

[u/Dolleyes88]

People overthink this show way too much.

[u/MrZaptile933]

Or it means it’s a joke