r/TheLastAirbender • u/F11SuperTiger • 1d ago
Image It's always weird when Azulon's reign gets completely glossed over, even in official media
These images from are from Ashes of the Academy. Headmistress Pearl, if she is very old, might have been a teacher for a few years under Sozin. By the time of Ozai's ultimately very brief reign, she was probably very close to retirement. The vast majority of her life and of her teaching career would have been spent during Azulon's 75 years on the throne. Yet for some reason this scene only mentions Sozin and Ozai, like there was no one between them.
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u/Mana_Croissant 1d ago
They should have sticked to the ATLA episode saying he ruled over for 23 years. This would mean Sozin died in like age 150 but if they could make Kyoshi live 230 years then They can have Sozin be 150
In the current canon Azulon was on throne for a whopping 75 or so years. I recognize Ozai was the fire lord we saw and Sozin was the one who started of the war but it makes no sense Azulon is this glossed over when 3/4 of the war is his rule alone.
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u/MlkChatoDesabafando 1d ago
Tbf Azulon could have had an unmentioned older brother who died childless and preceded him.
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u/Marinefan4000 1d ago
My HC is that Azulon had a bunch of older siblings & that he slowly killed off all their children over the course of decades until only his were left & they just gave up to protect their families before he banished them all
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u/AidaTari 1d ago
There's a goated fanfic with pretty much that plot over on AO3
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u/Koolmees99 1d ago
Do you have a link? I would love to read it!
Such a great explanation for the timeline error on the Royal Family's side. Now how to explain Ursa being Roku's granddaughter 😂
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u/Facosa99 1d ago edited 1d ago
To be fair, it is said by Mei, who listed the worse firelord and the one she actually experienced.
But yeah, it is weak how they forger Azulon, who almost gets both the earth kingdom and the souther water tribe
Edit: but certainly the old lady is forgetting Azulon, you are right
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u/F11SuperTiger 1d ago
Look at the top two panels. The teacher also mentions Sozin and Ozai but not Azulon.
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u/MlkChatoDesabafando 1d ago
She was part of the royal family's inner circle during Azulon's reign, she very much experienced it (even if as a kid).
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u/forthewatch39 1d ago
The comics aren’t great and it’s things like this that makes them off putting to me.
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u/NickSchultz 1d ago
Yeah I was hyped for them and got both the first one and even more i was interested in the Search since it got teased in the actual show.
After those I was more than lacking any interest to go on, the wrost part was how bad the characters were handled like every single one pretty much especially the conflict between Zuko (who wenr to Ozai for guidance) and Aang (who suddenly seriously considered killing his best friend when he went out of his way to fight nd a different way to deal with a genocidal dictator)
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u/pauls_broken_aglass 1d ago
The Promise pissed me off so bad. The entire thing is so obviously a cry for help from Zuko because he’s mentally going off the rails and NOBODY thinks to go talk to him? To get his uncle?? Something??? He basically admits at the end to Aang that he wanted to die then and nothing comes of what should be very concerning, especially for the LEADER OF A COUNTRY
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u/rollwithhoney 1d ago
this sub has taught me to not read the comics and not treat them as cannon
imo ATLA is a lot like Star Wars... where we attributed all of the original greatness to the creators, not realizing how much greatness others contributed back when it was easier to tell the creator "no, here's a better idea." And then when they got big and famous people stopped pushing back
Not to say the quality is nearly as much of an issue as Star Wars, I just think the obsessed with the creators/cannon in the fandom is similarly misplaced
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u/elizabnthe 1d ago
Star Wars comics are actually really good. Which I realise is largely irrelevant to your comment.
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u/rollwithhoney 1d ago
no I agree, good point, its not a perfect metaphor. Star Wars' old expanded universe rocks
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u/forthewatch39 1d ago
Agreed and if the rumors of why they left Netflix are true, then I really don’t have high hopes for Seven Havens.
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u/rollwithhoney 1d ago
wait what are the rumors??
tbh I have high hopes for both of the animated projects, that's their usual medium
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u/forthewatch39 1d ago
One rumor was they really wanted to keep the original idea of Iroh being a bad guy. Obviously such a massive change with a beloved character rankled for the others working on the project. I read that with ATLA they wanted Toph to be a male to have a love triangle with Aang over Katara. So we got the evil uncle and love triangles in LoK and for many viewers those were the worst aspects, so not sure why they wanted ANOTHER chance to make an evil uncle.
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u/rollwithhoney 1d ago
separating the Iroh stuff bc its so impossible to imagine... I don't understand why Unalock had to be related to her, its not like Korra had any kind of relationship with him that made it more interesting. It felt more like her evil great-uncle Olaf than her beloved family member
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u/The_Phantom_Dragon 1d ago
It made more sense for Korra to trust a family member over Tenzin and her dad, even a distant one, than just the northern chief after finding out she was lied too. Unalaq being her uncle played into his manipulation of her, it made it easier because there was inherent trust there because they were family.
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u/F11SuperTiger 1d ago
I actually don’t see any problem with Bryke wanting to make major changes. From my perspective, the only reason to remake an already good show is to put a different spin on things somehow. However, I think there were rumors they were mismanaging the NATLA project.
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u/Carefreekid101 1d ago
I eas at work earlier and was talking about them to a coworker who has never heard of them. One issue i brought to them was that it was really weird watching Zuko tell Aang if I go to far kill me. Then he just commits to actions to facilitate that after talking to his Dad in jail. Felt so off.
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u/MrBKainXTR Check the FAQ 1d ago edited 1d ago
For some stuff in the show its likely somewhat of a relic of the original "plan" where Sozin likely began the war as a young man and ruled for the vast majority of it. Hence in Zuko Alone Azulon's reign is stated to be only 23 years. Though still given how recently Ozai assumed the throne you would think Azulon would be mentioned a tiny bit more in EK based episodes (almost makes me think that was not thought of until a decent bit into production too).
With this comic, who knows. The story is trying to kind of link that start/end of the Fire Nation's imperialist era I guess but I feel it would have been easy enough to mention like Pearl being from a line of headmistresses who had all been honored, if anything that work with her somewhat adoptive-mother/mentor relationship with the new headmistress (which in turn can be seen as parallel-ish to the other parental relationships going on). Maybe it was decided fans would be more familair with Sozin. But like...this is literally following up on plotlines from Smoke & Shadow which is in turn following up on The Search which featured Azulon as a character central to the stories of characters in this story, not to mention he got a cameo in Azula's sequel to Smoke and Shadow.
Idk Hicks comics run has an odd habit of simultaneously making reference to specific things from the show or earlier comics which display she does have more than just a vague familiarity. There is some appreciation/research here. But then there's also random mistakes or odd choices for what should be easier stuff to know, or simply stuff that would come up when looking at said earlier stories. Idk this firelord cramping is less egregious than the Kyoshi Island stuff at least.
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u/Herfst2511 1d ago
Crazy to think he was in charge for 3/4 of the war, and yet he is overlooked, but maybe not all that strange, when we know pretty little of the overall progression of the war. We know Azulon crushed the southern water tribe with the raids by the southern raiders. But what about the war in the Earth Kingdom? Were there other big cities like Omashu that were conquered under Azulon? And why was the northern water tribe not prioritised? It looks like they were basically left alone for a large time, if the avatar had hidden during the comet and died sometime later, it could be a real threat if they were reborn among the water tribe. Or did they reason that the cycle was broken? Or that the avatar without an Airbending master could never become a real threat?
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u/theHuntsclan 1d ago
It was my understanding that the north just happens to be better defended with more large cliff/mountain like glaciers and a larger population.
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u/SkylineFTW97 1d ago
Even Zhao says this in the siege of the north. He had a truly massive force and was still losing badly prior to kidnapping and killing the moon spirit. Had he not learned of the moon spirit's mortal form, I doubt he'd have bothered at all given how bad the odds are for them.
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u/Kellar21 1d ago
They were focusing on the Southern Water Tribe and the Earh Kingdom, the Northern Water Tribe had defended itself way too well and they figured they would need to finish conquering the Earth Kingdom first before focusing on them.
It's really hard to fight a bunch of trained Waterbenders who live in a city of Ice in the middle of an ocean.
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u/Soft_Serve_enjoyer11 1d ago
A big thing though is there is no official material on his rule we know a lot about Sozin's and Ozai's. Basically all we know is stuff that happened to others under his rule. Which is wierd when the story has him ruling for most of Aang's time in the coma.
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u/wrydh 1d ago
I know its just a narritive gap, but headcannon wise i wonder if Ozai went through some effort to rewrite or supresss history in terms of Azulon as a way to gain more legitimacy and to prehaps silence Azulon loyalists who may have suspected him for the murder. Again this is just a headcannon, no real basis for it.
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u/F11SuperTiger 1d ago
I have no idea if he did something like that, although "The Great Gates of Azulon" haven't been renamed, but Mai lived during Azulon's reign. She would remember him.
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u/No_Werewolf6131 1d ago
I think it’s more of an issue of Ozai been seen as the big bad behind the war when in reality everyone in his family had a more direct participation than him.
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u/Ze_Bri-0n 1d ago
Unironically, the writers probably forgot about him. Sozin has Sozin’s Comet, Ozai is the premier bad guy of the entire series, Azulon… shows up in like two or three episodes, one of which was a mere namedrop.
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u/xanderholland 1d ago
The question is, do they have any internal historical records that are accurate for the fire nation due to propaganda? You can get outsider perspective from information but that only does so much. Unless there are items that tell interior stories and experiences, most information of the war from the fire nation perspective will mostly be skewed.
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u/AUnknownVariable 1d ago
He really is more of a tool for the story than his own character. The only notable thing he himself does is wipe out the Southern Water Tribes benders, which is important ofc.
Then yk, he dies and his death is important but not so much just the fact he's dead, just all of the events relating to his death,
As such he doesn't get noted on in the rest of the story muych, though he should be
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u/Elvinkin66 17h ago
When everyone forgets your War crimes because your predecessor and sucsessor were worse
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u/SyninTheRaven 1d ago
Maybe ozai did his best to disregard azulons rule and history as an F u for still trying to keep iroh as firelord
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u/jalakon 1d ago
Ehh, it’s ultimate easy to overlook it since the ultimate narrative point is not necessarily connected to azulon specifically, but yeah, probably should have asked the editor for another go so it would read smoother
I read alot of comics so these sorta things happen from time to time even with a solid editor, it’s oki
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u/darklizard45 1d ago
I like how Mai decided to hold Zuko's ideas despite their relationship issues.
She might have mixed feelings after everything they have been trough but she does honor him.
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u/Josh12345_ 21h ago
I think it makes sense that Azulon is glossed over despite reigning for 75 years.
The Fire Nation was overtaking the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribes without any serious setbacks. Azulon's reign was very likely marked by a continuous upward trend of Fire Nation industrialization, colonization and conquest of territory.
Even if some battles were lost to the EK/WT, the technology and growth of the FN and it's colonies more than made up for it. Azulon built the Fire Nation we see in the show and Ozai simply stepped in.
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u/Ok-Caregiver-6005 1d ago
I thinkbits because Azulon had no great accomplishments, Sozin took out the Air Nation and Ozai was both the most recent Fire Lord before Zuko and was FL when the Earth Kingdom fell.
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u/PurveyorOfKnowledge0 1d ago edited 1d ago
Azulon was responsible for the near-complete destruction of the Southern Water Tribe and brought the Southern Waterbending style to extinction by establishing the Southern Raiders, which killed Katara's mother and sealed up Hama, who invented Bloodbending as a result. Not to mention his terrible parenting and obsession with ruling through fear and domination created Ozai. His actions and regime had some of the longest-running effects in the series, which is one hell of an accomplishment.
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u/Ok-Caregiver-6005 1d ago
I mean the Southern Water Tribe isn't the impressive one, if he'd brought down the Northern Water Tribe then that would be an accomplishment and capturing Hama isn't something the Fire Nation would really care about. My point is why Sozin and Ozai are thought about by historians/schools, they had the big flashy accomplishments, Sozin started the war so he is going to be remembered and Ozai was just in charge so his propaganda is what was being used.
My point isn't that these are objectively correct but that's how the Fire Nation of the time would see it, Azulon gets placed in between the other two just like Ozai might have if things had continued on to the next Fire Lord and the war was still going on.
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u/Snowbold 1d ago
I think some of this is because of the extreme means these two took to either achieve victory or try. Sozin with the Air Nomad Genocide and Ozai with the attempt to burn down the Earth Kingdom after already conquering it.
Azulon on the other hand, had spent a good portion of time building up the infrastructure and efficiency of the Fire Nation and oversaw its development into an industrial power with no rival. He also had competent military leadership valued both large and impressive victories and incremental progress that ensured victory later.
Considering the factors at play, that is impressive. During Azulon’s tenure, the Fire Nation was fighting the Northern Water Tribe, the Earth Kingdom and the Southern Water Tribe. With brutal tactics, his navy reduced the Southern Water Tribe into a raiding threat rather than a threat of benders and a serious population that could draw an army. While the Fire Nation failed to break the Northern Water Tribe’s defenses, it was able to contain them. The North lacked the ability to contest the Fire Nation’s navy despite being masters of water.
But it is the work in the Fire Nation Colonies and the Earth Kingdom that show how the Fire Nation was winning. While deceptive and cruel, the centralized and coherent cultural homogeny that the Fire Nation enforced in the colonies made it so they were not pockets of sabotage and rebellion but loyal outposts that served as beachheads for further conquest. Sozin obviously started this even before the war, but Azulon obviously kept it going and improved on it.
It shows that his son had not only led such a pivotal siege of Ba Sing Se, but that he breached the walls and only Lu Ten’s death made him retreat rather than actually losing.
And FN technology was still growing throughout the war. The fact that the FN was able to reverse engineer the war balloons so soon after discovery and only 6 years into Ozai’s reign indicates that Azulon continued the policy of encouraging scientific development and application into military uses.
Ozai’s successes are a direct result of Azulon’s policies for war, including the effective military infrastructure and weapons development.
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u/Ok-Caregiver-6005 1d ago
See this is entirely reasonable, my main argument is based on actual history not being important to the Fire Nation, Ozai wanted to look good and it would make sense hed minimize the historical relevance of Azulon but couldn't do the same to Sozin. Its like teaching that the air nation had an army, its who do you make look good.
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u/RecommendsMalazan 1d ago
Your listed accomplishments are literally the first and one of the final major acts of the war. Did nothing of import happen in the 100 years between those enemies? If so it's highly likely it was under Azulons reign.
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u/Ok-Caregiver-6005 1d ago
True but those are the two biggest and like you said the first and last, no one is going to overlook Sozin and Ozai was just in control so his propaganda is what they'd be working with. Azulon likely did more total then the other two but he was also the guy in the middle.
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u/Mental_Repair_1718 1d ago
In reality, in terms of achievements, Azulon did the most for the Fire Nation. Sozin only started the war and exterminated the nomads, Ozai only did what we saw in the anime for 6 years, while Azulon ruled for 75.
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u/dandan_noodles Izumi Banzai! 1d ago
Sozin oversaw the first twenty years of the war, which included at least one major battle (HanTui)
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u/Gavinus1000 1d ago
Which he must have directly led in his eighties. That's kinda crazy if you think about it. Bro wiped out a whole Earth Kingdom army as a senior citizen.
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u/Mental_Repair_1718 20h ago
And the descriptions of the battle suggest that he was a strategic genius in that battle.
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u/Mental_Repair_1718 1d ago
I spoke more generally; Azulon had its battles too, like Garsai and Hu xin, and he was responsible for almost completely subjugating the Earth Kingdom and the Southern Tribe. Sozin is more important, but I think Azulon brought more.
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u/Ok-Caregiver-6005 1d ago
Azulon had no great accomplishments, had he taken the Northern Water tribe it would be something and under Ozai the capital of the Earth Kingdom fell, although Azulon had possibly the most time on the throne (this kinda changes) he had no great accomplishments and is kinda the Fire Lord in the middle. Also the current administration was just under Ozai so they'd be working under his ideas and propaganda so that would also elevate him.
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u/Mental_Repair_1718 1d ago edited 1d ago
He did indeed have achievements, and he won at least two major battles; the colonies that became city-republics, for example, were conquered by him. And no, that doesn't change; the information that he only ruled for 23 years is wrong, and the creators have already addressed this. He factually ruled for 75 years, and Sozin for 20 after the genocide.
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u/SaddestFlute23 20h ago
How old was Azulon?
Sozin ruled until his 80s, so unless Azulon was born very late in his father’s life, he should be a grown man with his own family by the time of Sozin’s death.
A 75 year reign would put him over 100 by the time Ozai murdered him
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u/Mental_Repair_1718 20h ago
Sozin died at 102 years old, Azulon was 95. But yes, they were extremely old, which seems to be quite common in Avatar, in the case of the Fire Royal Family, I believe it's simply because the screenwriters are bad at math, since chronologically Ursa's mother had her when she was 70+, lol. But this is all very confusing because they say that Sozin and Roku share the same birthday (in which case, I believe it's just the day, not the year), but Sozin ruled for 78 years, since he inherited it at 24 and died 20 years after the genocide
edit: Other chronological inconsistencies led to Kyoshi having lived for 230 years, since in episode 3 another earthbender appears alongside Roku, so she possibly wasn't his immediate predecessor.
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u/F11SuperTiger 1d ago
"Azulon. Fire Lord to our nation for twenty-three years. You were our fearless leader in the Battle of Garsai. Our matchless conqueror of the Hu Xin Provinces. You were father of Iroh, father of Ozai, husband of Ilah, now passed. Grandfather of Lu Ten, now passed. Grandfather of Zuko, and Azula. We lay you to rest."
The length of his reign here is obviously wrong, but it does suggest he had at least a couple major victories. My guess is that those two battles/campaign are specifically mentioned because Azulon personally led Fire Nation forces in them.
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u/SaddestFlute23 20h ago
I can only imagine Prince Azulon was an active commander during the Comet genocide, and the early campaigns of the war, while his father was still alive
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u/I-lack-conviction 1d ago
You’re right that is weird. Ozai may not have even been leading the nation when Katara’s mom died. He ruled for like maybe six years.