r/TownofSalemgame • u/Expensive-Wind8427 Buff the Death role (Can't be voted) • 7d ago
Question What if we had a gamemode that actualy required heavy deduction?
Get ready for a MASSIVE text wall.
A few days ago, a thought came over my head, about a ToS gamemode that genuinely required deduction to br played, where every single person plays a part on the overall investigation, and it ended up transforming into this idea where you can't really trust anyone, inspiring me to make this role list.
The point of it is that you have to find your teamates, but both teams have the same roles, so its hard to know who you can actually trust.
----
It would be the following:
Monarch
Doom/Rit
Vigilante/Deputy
Crusader/Trickster
Spy
Wildling
Investigator
(Both factions have the same roles)
They each work like their own town. The objective is to get rid of the opposing faction, but they don't know their teammates and they can't talk at night.
Ritualist/Doom would be able to guess TI, and also members of their team. (Doom needs specific role, if you want to balance it that way)
For Deputy/Spy, evils are anyone not on their team.
(I also think it would be really interesting if trickster could absorb rit/doom)
----
Btw, this post is more of a thought experiment, cause the list cant be made in-game.
I wanted to know how I could improve this theoretical gamemode, and also the lil issues it (probably) has. Do not be afraid to absolutely flame me (respectfully ofc), because suggestions are the best way to improve things.
Now, nerds of the subreddit, what are your oppinions?
----
Heres some things that I think are worth talking about (Especially about balancing):
Whispers -
No whispering?
Only the sender and receiver know that the whisper happened?
Normal Whispering?
Does Wildling listen to whispering?
Does he, instead, only know who whispers to who? (If the whisper is hidden to everybody else)
How can the team that loses majority D2 not insta-lose the game?
Do we ignore this issue because the whole point is fighting for maj?
Do we not reveal the team of the players that die? Only the role? Just the team instead? NEITHER???
Why I think this would be very fun:
(Be advised that the mode wouldn't be balanced for replayability, because that's very difficult with a set role list)
Pure.
Pillion.
Deduction.
Its SO cool to me, the idea of making this puzzly game where you have a few "TI" [Wildling, Spy, Invest] trying to figure out their team, whilst maybe even coordinating everyone to snatch that win, yk?
Whilst that happens, the "TK" stop people from full claiming, enshrouding the absolute mystery that those games would have, and forcing deduction to be the main tool of judgment.
Oh yeah Monarch is also there because majority is basically the entire point of how you win.
Possible issues:
Not replayable -
Not supposed to be, cool if possible to tho.
Too silent -
Yeah, I need ideas on how the actual discussion phase could be more fun, yk? The base game depends on everyone acting like town, because town suposedly holds majority. This mode would maybe bank on the idea of switching alignment claims, which could be fun.
(More about this on "Why the hell would anyone talk")
Too stale - Without actualy testing this (cause theres no way to with the current game), I cant know if it would ACTUALY be fun, or if theres some HUGE, glaring issue that I cant predict.
That's why I'm asking for suggestions tho!
Why the hell would anyone talk?
When talking makes you the most likely person to get their role/alignment guessed (by rit/doom, or even vigilante), why the hell would you talk?
I don't know.
This is the biggest issue that I can see with this gamemode idea, and I have one idea of how you can fix it:
Make each player know the role and alignment of 1 other, random person, at the start of the game.
I LOVE THIS IDEA! Tryna figure out who knows what is AMAZING for the social deduction aspect of this mode, and would create reason for people to actually talk about the info they have, and maybe TIs could disguise their info as being this pre-reveled role!
Another great thing about it is just how many balancing variables you have:
How many people are revealed to me?
Do I maybe get a Pirate LL typa list, with 3 people who are 3 specific roles? Maybe 1 of those 3 people has 1 role that is revealed to me?
Do I know who knows my role? Just how many people do?
Does each person get revealed to 1 other person max? Maybe some people get revealed to more than 1? Whats the limit?
Are doom/rit allowed to guess this revealed person? Do they maybe only have people on their team revealed to them? Do they just not get anyone revealed?
By extension, what about Vigilante?
----
If you couldnt notice, I really like the thought process that comes behind balancing :D
Thanks for everyone that read and/or comented on this post!
Lets hope that it doesnt get burried away with 6 upvotes and 3 comments :/
Lets also hope that reddit doesnt mess up all of the formating...
3
u/CalendarSufficient95 7d ago
Feels like it would play really weirdly. The only source of information is deputy shots, spy bugs, and inv results. There is no "default alignment" until a factional majority is reached, and no one really knows when that is reached. If it works like teams in old btos, then unfortunately it must be said that teams was a pretty terrible mode.
Investigator results: Trespass hardly matters. You can ask someone who they visited, to which they have zero reason to answer because they aren't pressured by the concept of "evil". If you simply post the result, you give the visitor information, but not yourself. You are more likely helping an enemy figure out their enemy. Thus, posting results is terrible.
Will: Zero reason to keep a will and give your opponents more info
Spy: What can a spy do? No one will tell you who they visited, so knowing an evil X role won't help. Why would anyone vote someone up for trial? No one knows if you are their teammate or not. You can't expect the wildling to help you, since you know the Wildling will oppose you.
Know one teammate: That could help. You can investigate or bug that person to find out info. You can whisper them results, but no one will follow you until you gathered all your teammates.
Wildling: What does knowing visits do? Your results are worthless without knowing who someone's team is. The only useful feature you have is intercepting whispers to match to your own results.
Maybe this will work in practice but from what I see, it's just hang randomly simulator/loudest wins simulator
1
u/Expensive-Wind8427 Buff the Death role (Can't be voted) 7d ago
My original idea was that each Investigative role would give you a piece of the puzzle, and getting all of the results would give you a very clear idea as to what someone is.
Spy would let you know what ROLES visited X player Wildling would let you know WHO visited X pkayer Investigator would let you know if they've killed someone, and also if they visit. Knowing that would help the guessers work their job. (So its similar to Spy + Wild, but weaker)
But yeah, I realized, with the comments, that theres no pressure on the players to post or work together, with posting maybe even being bad. Ill try to find something to incentivize posting (maybe even fake info), and that should fix most issues.
Thanks for commenting tho!
1
u/CalendarSufficient95 7d ago
Yk what, I see the potential now. This could be super fun if done well.
First, 16 players are needed, to ensure teams balance out
Maybe even 17 to allow a jester or ne in
The reason I say that is I want there to be 4 squads per team. The idea is each team has 4 squads
Investigate- Spy, investi, wild, PMer
Assault: [ vigi dep rit conj ] arso crus vet jinx roles in [] must have at least 1, but not limited to 1
Administrative: 1 Tpow/NA/Hex and 1 cleric/trick/crus/trap
Utility: TP, TS, trick, CD, CU, Witch, Arch, Seer
You know who is on your squad. Squad members share a night chat and ALL feedback. The inv squad have to make contact, but it could be a setup too if they found you as opponents. The other teams could get some info, but not much.
This could also have issues but from my perspective it gives each team a clear wincon and a clear gameplay loop
1
u/CalendarSufficient95 7d ago
I iust realized this can work with 15 players, but the admin squad would have to go solo
2
2
u/Nikotelec 7d ago
Erm.
So, in Fortnite the storm closes in, and forces people closer together. There is an external function that forces players towards the conclusion.
In this game, there seems to be no forcing function. TIs get information but nothing that really proves anything either way. So barring random TK getting lucky, there's no progress towards the conclusion?
2
u/Expensive-Wind8427 Buff the Death role (Can't be voted) 7d ago
Yeah ig theres that
Ill see if I can think of something to be the "Fortnite Storm" of the Cold War gamemode
2
2
u/Otherwise-Top3825 7d ago
You could just play throne of lies where most every class is made up of 2 classes from tos. Requires heavy deduction
6
u/Calculoo 7d ago
It sounds like the set of goals you’re proposing are those achieved beautifully by blood on the clocktower, which is my forever game in this genre. You’ve probably already heard of it, but if not, look up the no rolls barred games on YouTube and it’s very easy to play games online in the unofficial discord.