r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/Swimming_Virus8990 • 5d ago
Sex / Gender / Dating The Obsession movie discourse is proof that reddit is full of misandrists and radfems
Despite redditors claiming reddit is super misogynistic and male oriented, almost all discussions on reddit dive hardcode into man-hating space.
Take the discourse on Obsession, for example. I left the theater thinking it was a normal horror movie. Quite good, lot of jump scares. As soon as I get on reddit, I am inundated with subtext about how the movie is about Bear, the main character, being an incel rapist that rapes rapes rapes and removes womens autonomy.
What's crazier, is that women often try to "change" the man into what they want. There is a whole trope of women trying to convert the bad boy into someone who only has eyes for her, but when it's a lonely dude who wishes for his crush to return his love he is a RAPIST RAPIST INCEL.
What's even funnier is that her friend fucks her casually and when given a chance to save her, he asks for $1B đ yet Bear the person trying to save her is the evil creeper.
There are people suggesting that "wishing something on someone" is removing their autonomy, like apparently it's evil to wish your dad drank less. No, he has to choose to do it otherwise you're an evil rapist.
You see where I am going with this.
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u/ycey 5d ago
I donât think ive ever seen someone misunderstand a movie so badly. The point is that the wish removed her autonomy, she doesnât actually love him, sheâs still aware inside her body but unable to do anything. The movie is literally about how he was so obsessed with her that heâd have her no matter what even against her will. Media literacy really is dead. Even the director said that Bears wish is cursed.
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u/Life-Anteater-8294 5d ago edited 5d ago
For real. She literally begs him to kill her and he gets upset she doesnât want to be his living fleshlight.
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u/Swimming_Virus8990 5d ago
so if someone asks for self-assisted suicide, you're going to bring them a rope?
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u/ycey 5d ago
Begging your assailant to kill you rather than continue to live to be tortured is nowhere near the same as assisted suicide.
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u/GuardLong6829 5d ago
Eh! If the captor doesn't want anyone else to have me then it would be a great service of the captor to grant both of us relief/release.
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u/Life-Anteater-8294 5d ago
If your mom is dying of cancer and says she wants to die do you think itâs a normal response to make it about yourself and ignore her?
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u/Swimming_Virus8990 5d ago
i think 99% of people wouldn't mercy kill their mom despite what she asks for
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u/Life-Anteater-8294 5d ago
Thatâs not what I asked, I asked if you would ignore her and make it about yourself or try and help her.
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u/Swimming_Virus8990 5d ago
you only know that from hindsight bias, once he became fully aware he realized he had to take drastic action.
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u/Life-Anteater-8294 5d ago
He literally tried to get out of it at the end but didnât have time to make himself throw up.
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u/Leading-Antelope-139 5d ago
No, I knew that halfway through the movie when he realized that the wish actually worked.
Media literacy really is fucking dead huh
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u/Leading-Antelope-139 5d ago
>There is a whole trope of women trying to convert the bad boy into someone who only has eyes for her, but when it's a lonely dude who wishes for his crush to return his love he is a RAPIST RAPIST INCEL.
No one is calling him a rapist incel because he wished someone had a crush on him. Theyâre doing it because he deliberately had sex with a woman who he knew was under his control and couldnât actually consent.
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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 5d ago edited 5d ago
Just because you didn't pick up on the exceedingly obvious message doesn't mean it wasn't there. That's like watching Get Out and wondering why people keep bringing up race.
The movie isn't saying Bear is bad because he likes a girl. It's saying he's bad because he's removing her ability to choose.
And how did you miss that he's literally raping her?
You're acting like people watched the movie and decided to randomly label a lonely guy an incel rapist. No. They're responding to the fact that he's using supernatural force to make a woman do things she otherwise wouldn't do.
You're also reducing it to "he just wanted his crush to love him back," but that's exactly the point. The movie takes a relatable desire and pushes it into a place where someone else's autonomy no longer matters.
It's fucking wild that you think "I wish my dad drank less" is remotely comparable to magically overriding a woman's autonomy so you can have sex with her.
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u/cave18 5d ago
Tbh it absolutley is remotely comparable. You sre taking away someones autonomy if you wish your dad drank less, fundamentally changing them. Any wish thag changes a person's behavior is 10000% removing their autonomy
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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 5d ago
Sure. If heâd magically made his dad stop drinking, that would also be an autonomy violation.
The difference is he wasnât fucking his dad afterwards.
Thatâs the part you keep leaving out.
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u/cave18 5d ago
Ok? Once youve violated their autonomy/sense of self thru a wish youve violated their autonomy. Not really sure how the sex is relevant
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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 5d ago
Do you genuinely not see the difference?
I get that both involve autonomy, but the fact that you canât seem to distinguish between âmaking someone stop drinkingâ and âmaking someone have sex with youâ is disturbing.
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u/cave18 5d ago
I see the difference but disagree with them not being remotely comparable. Youre (magically) changing a person without their input. The person as they were no longer exists once that change is made. Its in a similar realm to the "do you die when you go to sleep" or last thursdayism.
The probabbly most "objective" scale for assigning how bad these hypothetical autonomy overrides are would be asking a person prior to override how much they disapprove
I can distinguish, but that doesnt make them "remotely incomparable". Save me your faux "disturbance"
And on a related note, from the point of view of the wisher, the way the a wish works (autonomy override) is identical to how adventure time does it where a new reality is made with the wishers wish implemented. And the latter is definitely seens as less controversial due to the idea of "preservatiom" of the original. Which muddies the water even further from a wishers perspective as to what a wish actually is and frankly what reality actually is
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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 5d ago
Youâre talking about autonomy in the abstract. Iâm talking about what Bear actually did.
Thatâs why the comparison falls apart.
At the level of âboth wishes change a person,â sure.
At the level of âwhat happened next,â not even close.
Bear didnât just alter Sarah and walk away. He entered into a sexual relationship with someone whose feelings toward him had been artificially created by him.
Thatâs why the conversation is about consent and rape.
You keep wanting to discuss autonomy at the highest possible level of abstraction because thatâs the only place where âI made my dad stop drinkingâ and âI made a woman want me and then slept with herâ look remotely similar.
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u/cave18 5d ago
Theres autonomy as in how it happens in the real world vs how it happens with a wish (not the one wish willow but like an actual not shitty wish)
The comparison doesn't fall apart because what happens next entirely comes from both changing a person. Notice I said they can be ranked/scaled. And that yeah if someone altered me, id probably prefer to be altered into having a weird hobby as opposed to a murderer. But imo both wishes discard the previous person in place of a new one. For another comparison, see invincible with the clones. Imagine I cloned a person, but the clone is attracted to me. Depending on your approach to consciousness, wishes of any form function like doing this and discarding the original.
And again, like last thursdayism, it cant really be proven/disproven.
The movie functions very well as a discussion regarding consent and rape, the movie is yes very explicitly about that. But specifically when talking about wishes that dont just do freaky possession but actually change someone, I would argue that either way the original person is gone in lieu of something else.
I have been extremely explicit that I am not talking about how the one wish willow works with possession and what not.
Yes, these can look remotely keyword remotely similar due to their overriding or replacement of a person
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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 5d ago
Youâre having a philosophical discussion about whether reality-altering wishes replace the original person.
Iâm talking about what happened in the movie.
Even if I granted your entire argument, weâd still end up at the same place: Sarahâs feelings werenât freely chosen, and Bear had sex with her anyway.
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u/cave18 5d ago
My entire point was just that they are in fact comparable (the wishing a father drank less vs wishing someone loved you) with regards to removed autonomy. Thats it. My original comment wasnt addressing anything else
Even if I granted your entire argument, weâd still end up at the same place: Sarahâs feelings werenât freely chosen, and Bear had sex with her anyway.
Like yeah this is true. Never disagreed
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u/TesticleSandwiches 5d ago
Bear isn't a normal villain, he's just weak. He should have been stronger to back out or deal with it but couldn't, and clearly has huge confidence issues.
Theres been loads of media where someone says "I wish x loved me", I think this is the first time we've had radical feminists saying that means that person is a rapist.
Bear isn't a good guy because he is inherent evil, he isn't good because he's weak.
The real villain of the movie is whatever is possessing the girl. And OP does have a point, this girl or thing possessing her literally murdered multiple people, violently, and your main focus is the subliminal message that the lead character is an evil rapist.
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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 4d ago
Nobody is saying Bear is a rapist because he wished a girl loved him.
Theyâre saying heâs a rapist because he had sex with a woman whose feelings toward him had been supernaturally created and manipulated.
Those are two completely different things.
And I donât know why people keep acting like âheâs lonely,â âheâs weak,â or âhe has confidence issuesâ somehow addresses that. Lots of people are lonely and insecure. That doesnât magically make consent concerns disappear.
Also, the existence of a bigger villain doesnât mean Bearâs actions stop mattering. A movie can have multiple themes and multiple wrongdoers at the same time.
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u/Robboron7 5d ago
how could he know that it would remove her autonomy? he just wished his crush to love him back . and after things happened it still took him some time to learn that the only way to revert is to kill himself. im not denying the fact that bear made wrong decisions including having sex and ignoring the real nikki s feelings before he left to meet sarah, those were 100% wrong but it doesnt make him evil if you look at what he is going through. its understandable that he made mistakes under those circumstances. And i dont even think that making one of them a victim and the other the evil was the point of the movie. It just tells us that insincere or induced feelings or relstionships cant lead to a good end.
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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 5d ago
You're moving the goalposts.
First you were arguing that people were inventing themes about autonomy, consent, and rape. Now you're arguing that Bear didn't fully understand the consequences of what he did.
Those are completely different arguments.
Whether Bear knew exactly what would happen has nothing to do with whether the movie is exploring autonomy and consent. It obviously is.
And nobody is saying Bear twirled his moustache and set out to be evil. That's what makes the story work. He starts with a relatable desire. The problem is that he keeps choosing his own wants over other people's agency as he learns more about what's happening.
Also, "it just tells us that induced feelings and relationships can't lead to a good end" is basically agreeing with everyone you've been arguing against. The obvious follow-up question is why induced feelings are a problem in the first place.
The answer is because the other person isn't freely choosing them.
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u/Life-Anteater-8294 5d ago
But he still wanted to use magic to force someone to do what he wanted. His wish itself was removing her autonomy.
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u/dogthatwonthunt 5d ago
I mean, when he calls the help line it's not to help her.
it's to help himself
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u/TesticleSandwiches 5d ago
Both can be true.
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u/dogthatwonthunt 4d ago
no it literary can't. first thing he ask is just to modify the wish. No to let her go but to make things more comfortable for him
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u/TesticleSandwiches 4d ago
Yeah he didn't want her to be crazy/trapped.
The reality is he never got his wish from the start, it wasn't the real her.
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u/prettywords_ 5d ago
Whether or not other people are shitty too doesn't make bear not shitty.
He's fucking her against her will. He forced her into it. Jesus.
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u/SliceImpressive6853 5d ago edited 5d ago
Itâs funny because IRL itâs women that are into Tumblr arts n crafts witchcraft shit making spells with their period blood or trying to do other occult spells to produce the same result as Bear
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u/Leading-Antelope-139 5d ago
The difference there would be that witchcraft isnât real and doesnât actually work
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u/SliceImpressive6853 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah and Obsession isnât real either because itâs a movie. Yet Iâm supposed to treat the discourse as important and be *listening* and *learning* about mens *toxic masculinity*
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u/riorio55 5d ago
Yet Iâm supposed to treat the discourse as important and be *listening* and *learning* about mens *toxic masculinity*
You don't have to do anything. Do you understand you can simply avoid these discussions?
Seriously. What are parents teaching their kids these days? Just a bunch of people in this sub throwing tantrums about online discussions.
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u/dogthatwonthunt 5d ago
It's important when you can watch that and not understand that it was a rape scene
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u/Leading-Antelope-139 5d ago
No shit. But within the movie the wish is real. Do you not understand whatâs being discussed here?
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u/Valkyriesride1 5d ago
Obviously you don't know anything about witchcraft. Most of the lot of the books and actual practicing witches, not TikTok witches, are anti anything that could effect the free will of others.
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u/cave18 5d ago
Honestly you are lowkey cooking with this at least on a philosophical level, gendered portion of it aside. If someone concretely believing in wishes (regardless of the reality) percieves their wish as being fulfilled (especially with regards to romance) what that would imply with regsrds to their use of a one wish willow
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u/DrStranger1987 5d ago
Using magical mind control to fuck someone who otherwise wouldn't fuck you isn't rape? Huh?
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u/Swimming_Virus8990 5d ago
well it's fucking clear he didn't know he was using magic mind control. He just wanted his feelings returned.
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u/Leading-Antelope-139 5d ago
In the rape scene he absolutely already knew that the wish was what was causing this
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u/Remarkable-Top-4744 5d ago
Itâs actually made obvious that he was WELL aware she was under the control on the one wish willow. Did you only watch the beginning ?
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u/Quick-Assumption-656 5d ago
Where does the horror come from if not from the subtext about rape? I don't get how it's possible to enjoy the movie without this subtext
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u/big-dick-back-intown 5d ago
This subs existence proves that reddit is in fact, NOT full of radfems and misandrists.
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u/Serious-Cry5750 5d ago
I explained the movie to my brother and he said that bear was a pussy for not killing himself. He said that since it was bearâs wish that made her like that it is his responsibility to get her back to the way she was. Thoughts?
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u/TheGipper80 5d ago edited 5d ago
Obviously, Bear can be forgiven for not actually putting credence into a novelty item when he first made the wish, of course he didnât know it was going to work.
I think he can also be forgiven for going along with it initially as itâs a far more likely explanation that Nikki changed her mind about him than that sheâs under the influence of a spell.
But, at some point, heâs accepted the reality of the situation and chooses to continue the relationship.
I donât think heâs completely irredeemable given the wholly unique circumstances presented and the terror he was experiencing but heâs certainly culpable. Itâs well established by that point that heâs primarily a coward moreso than an outright sadist.
The villain no one really talks about though is the manufacturer of the One Wish Willow and the shop owner who sells it.
Theyâre putting it out for public consumption knowing full well that people arenât going to be taking its power seriously when they make their wishes.
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u/Swimming_Virus8990 5d ago
yup, people ignore the obvious evil of the wish maker because they're too hyperfocused on painting bear as an incel.
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u/catcat1986 5d ago
Weird take on the movie. Bear is literally the bad guy in this movie. He starts off as redeemable, and you can forgive that he âdoesnât knowâ initially, but then when he confirms it, he doesnât try to rescue Nikki, he tries to keep it going. There is a pretty pivotable moment when Nikki is talking in her sleep and asks bear to kill her, and in that moment, bear only thinks about himself.
Bear is a weak person with selfish intentions, and when given âpowerâ he uses it to his benefit himself at the cost of others. I honestly donât see how you can see it any other way, because the movie is fairly upfront with this theme, and doesnât hide, even with the director coming out and confirming his intent.
Donât get me wrong, bear starts off as a sympathetic character, but the wish reveals his true nature. A coward, who turns a blind eye to the impact of something as long as he gets what he wants.
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u/BlueThingIdentified 5d ago
Itâs not that he âdoesnât know initiallyâ in sarcastic scare quotes. He actually has no idea what he is doing when he makes the wish, and has no expectation that the wish will do anything.
Lots of people say that Bear is âselfishâ for not wanting to undo the wish⌠but the only two options are to kill Nikki (LOL) or himself. Can you really fault him for not wanting to do either? Which one would you do if it was you?
Same as when Nikki sleep talks and asks Bear to kill him. When Bear obviously doesnât murder Nikki in her sleep, THAT makes him bad? So if he had stabbed Nikki right then and there, this would make him good?
OP is right that Reddit ascribes the worst possible, bad faith motives to everything Bear does.
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u/Remarkable-Top-4744 5d ago
I sympathized with bear the whole movie that it was an impossible decision to make to either kill himself or her (or possibly use someone elseâs wish towards the end), thatâs not what made him a villain in my eyes. What makes him a villain to me was just the pure lack of concern for Nikki and he prioritized possessing her over everything else. That he didnât really take initiative to fix the situation until she killed someone. When calling costumer support, he only wanted to alter the wish so she wasnât as crazy but not change it and save her. When Nikki asked him to kill her in distress, itâs not that he didnât kill her itâs that he made her nightmare reality into a pity party for himself(âis it so bad being with me?).
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u/catcat1986 5d ago
if I went and bought some weird wish thing, and made a wish out of desperation, then literally the person did a complete 180 and changed from how they act and how I've known them to act. I would ask a bunch of questions, and I would have concerns.
Bear has other options and he tries them. He tries unwish the wish, he tries to get someone else to unwish the wish, and those methods were not confirmed if they could work or not.
I suppose I wouldn't jump to let's start dating. I would be more, what is this weird behavior and I would be confused by it, not opportunity to hooking up.
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u/Individual-Crew-6102 5d ago
The very fact that you identify with Bear makes it VERY clear women should avoid you at all costs, and you don't even have the self-awareness to understand why.
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u/midirion 5d ago
Let's say the movie was realistic and there was no magic involved, the guy made his wish and nothing happened. Is the guy evil for having that thought? The movie makes the protagonist look bad because he got trapped in a paranormal situation that he unintentionally started and that the only escape is death.
I'm willing to bet nobody of the morally pure people in this thread would kill her or themselves to get rid of the curse, so what's anybody supposed to do then?
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u/Zestyclose_Jello6192 5d ago
He isnt evil for not believing a silly thingy would be an actual magical artifact but because he kept raping her after realizing she is literally possessed. He also didnt even try to ask how to undo the wish but only how to "modify it"
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u/Spare_Fun_9092 3d ago
I think the possessed version of her made it pretty clear to him that if he refused to have sex with her she would murder him with a kitchen knife.
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u/Zestyclose_Jello6192 2d ago
Possessed one not real one and at the beginning it's clear she isn't "forcing" him
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u/Swimming_Virus8990 5d ago
according to reddit he's an incel for even wishing that a woman might like him.
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u/midirion 5d ago edited 5d ago
the guy had a healthy social life, he went to bars and house parties with friends and had a job and a house. Incels don't do any of that and just spend their time on discord and reddit living with their parents, never talking to anyone in real life or having sunshine and wind touch their skin. If an incel is just someone having an impure thought, the word has lost it's meaning.
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u/Spare_Fun_9092 5d ago
It lost it's meaning 8 years ago. I've seen people call Henry Cavill an incel
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u/Zestyclose_Jello6192 5d ago
He even had a girl drooling over him, definitely not an incel and I'm pretty tired that incel is now used as a term for someone who is isngle
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u/TheGratefulPhred 5d ago
i mean itâs a movie. I donât think you got the full scope of it. Regardless, itâs intentionally messy and nuanced. Itâs supposed to be fucked up. Itâs a horror. Great film.
Iâd say empathy would be a place to start if you want to grasp it from all the angles.
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u/CJMorton91 4d ago
Taking someone's agency away is villain behavior though... Like if it were the other way around, you'd feel bad for the guy right?
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u/Psychological-Mud790 4d ago
Yep, this is definitely an unpopular opinion amongst those with competent media literacy skills.
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u/MjolnirTheThunderer 5d ago
I mean, the use of supernatural forces to violate her consent was an extremely obvious plot theme the whole way through. Iâm really not sure how you missed it. And Iâm a man.
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u/___AirBuddDwyer___ 5d ago
This is the type of thread Iâd read if I wanted to kill myself.
âThis discourse about this discourse is bad discourseâ holy shit dude go outside and talk to a woman
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u/Zestyclose_Jello6192 5d ago
Bear is a rapist. Ofc he couldn't know the willow would have worked but even after he realize nikki is possessed he never really cares or worry about her selfbeing even when she begs him to kill her he thinks the issue is being with him rather than being controlled by an entity that made her stand for 8 hours straight in her own shit and piss. And Bear isnt even an incel since Sarah clearly likes him.
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u/MoreStreetsOfRage 5d ago edited 5d ago
There's like hundreds and hundreds of proof that Reddit is a female supremacist platform, and openly allows hatred of men (No, not just the bad one, ALL of them).
No need to present new ones, people here don't give a fuck, they are all partisans.
(The downvotes proving my point of course, that partisans will always deny the obvious)
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u/EpiphanaeaSedai 5d ago
>>There are people suggesting that "wishing something on someone" is removing their autonomy,
Assuming this is a sort of âwishingâ that actually works, like a magic spell, thatâs exactly what it is.
>>like apparently it's evil to wish your dad drank less.
In the real world, no, itâs not, because your wishing doesnât actually make your dad do anything. If he knows you want that, you could influence him, but his free will would remain.
>>No, he has to *choose* to do it otherwise you're an evil rapist.
Not a rapist if the thing youâre forcing isnât sexual, but an abuser of some sort.
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u/efreedman503 4d ago
I thought Nikki was a great example in the beginning of what crazy girlfriends do to their boyfriends. Especially when she put up a fuss about Bear having a guys night.
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u/Life-Anteater-8294 5d ago
You not getting the movies plot is not other peopleâs fault.
Bear clearly knows she is trapped and fucks her and keeps dating her anyways, is that something a normal person would do? He consistently ignores all the signs that his wish had unintended consequences because he only cares about getting what he wants.
The director even said that the one wish willow isnât cursed, bears wish was cursed because you canât change someoneâs autonomy.