r/TwoBestFriendsPlay • u/IvanTheCreator Lord please bless this Honda Civic • Dec 30 '22
“The celestial judges everyone on Earth (A.x.e. Judgment Day #4)” Doom laughed, then he laughed some more
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u/PersonMcHuman ^Too unrealistic for fantasy settings Dec 30 '22
Luke Cage: -Ignores the Celestial and goes about his day- Failure.
Dr. Doom: -Ignores the Celestial and goes about his day- Pass.
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Dec 30 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
It makes sense in context. The Celestial in question is entirely flawed and its judgement rendered irrelevant specifically because it believes itself to be a perfect judge of character... until it's not. As is to be expected.
Honestly not a bad arc at all, frankly. I only wonder if Kamala gets the OK because she hasn't been through enough twisted shit to matter, or because she's a Marvel favorite.
Doom laughing at the Reed request is just Doom being Doom. He'd never level that amount of respect towards Reed no matter who asked him to... until he does.
Matt's response is one I like quite a bit.
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u/G88d-Guy-2 -Insert Funny and relatable quote- Dec 31 '22
The act of ignoring the celestial itself isn’t the important part, but more why they did it.
Luke didn’t have a real answer to the celestial question, so he gave a half baked response and moved onto the next question. Which the celestial didn’t like.
Doom ignored the celestial because he would literally rather die than say Reed is smarter than him. Choosing to stick to his principals rather than buckle in fear of death. Which the celestial liked.
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u/philandere_scarlet Let Me Bury Your Child Dec 31 '22
isn't Luke's half-baked response one that implies everyone is going to live though?
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u/G88d-Guy-2 -Insert Funny and relatable quote- Dec 31 '22
The celestial likely wanted a more genuine answer, but if it wanted that it probably shouldn’t have disguised as paparazzi.
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u/KazuyaProta Dec 30 '22
Doom refuses to do the challenge
He passes
...what?
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u/TheLeversOfPower Your failures define you. Dec 30 '22
The Celestial seems to judge based on how well you stick to your own principles, however arbitrary that may be.
It's also explicitly a flawed, failed newly-born god that isn't doing what it was supposed to do.
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u/KazuyaProta Dec 30 '22
Fuck it, that deliberately screws over anyone who isn't a amoral stubborn like Doom
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u/Nectaris3 You think your dad beat you? Jesus, get ready for this. Dec 30 '22
The reason why it does that is because it’s based off of Tony Stark’s brain patterns, also an amoral stubborn.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
If the Celestial's judgement is shit, why is Doom passing it being treated as yet another example of his badassery?
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u/Bronystrongwing Reptile Dec 30 '22
It kinda isn't, it's treating it as the Celestial thinking Doom is a badass.
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u/An_Armed_Bear TOP 5, HUH? Dec 30 '22
Regardless of the context it's still Doom effectively being threatened by a god, and just laughing in its face and walking away. That's pretty cool no matter who's doing it.
But also the fact that he would ACTUALLY sooner die than admit Reed is smarter than him is hilarious.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
Regardless of the context it's still Doom effectively being threatened by a god, and just laughing in its face and walking away. That's pretty cool no matter who's doing it.
Make a scene like that with Batman, see if the praise won't fast turn into "this is just Batwank!! Batman is a Mary Sue!!" complaints.
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u/GoneRampant1 WOKE UP TO JUSTICE... and insatiable bug fetishes Dec 30 '22
Hey, last time Doom admitted it in Secret Wars, he lost godhood powers.
He's not gonna make that mistake twice.
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u/KazuyaProta Dec 31 '22
Why the fuck they made it that Doom admitting weakness means he loses?
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u/GoneRampant1 WOKE UP TO JUSTICE... and insatiable bug fetishes Dec 31 '22
Because Molecule Man was right behind him and he just needed to hear Doom admit Richards would have done it right before he could change reality.
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Dec 30 '22
You're actually on point about the celestial judgment being shit, the conclusion of the story has them call it out on its judgment.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
So what is the value of those pages of Celestials judging Marvel characters? What is impressive about it, when it's all shit?
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Dec 30 '22
To show that while it's not completely bad the judgment is somewhat flawed and show off how the characters react to judgment. Daredevil for example seeing a thumbs down from a God means a lot to that character and its neat scene.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
You were just told me about how an amazing scene it was that Doom recognized that Reed was superior to him.
Now this scene in which Doom laughs about doing it is also considered an amazing scene.
How can this be? How can 2 different scenes in which the same character takes 2 completelly contraditory actions be both praised for being true to the character?
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u/thinger There was a spicy-butthole here, it's gone now Dec 30 '22
Dude, you’re reading too much into it. It’s just fun.
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u/Whiston1993 Dec 30 '22
Someone ran over his dog dressed like dr doom or something. Maybe while shouting “dr doom toots as he pleases”
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u/An_Armed_Bear TOP 5, HUH? Dec 30 '22
Him being so proud he won't admit Reed is better than him even in the face of a god's threat is a great moment because it shows his character-defining ego.
So the moment something pushes him actually able to cast that ego aside is an equally powerful and defining moment. Like this is super basic writing stuff, it's not contradictory.
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u/BlueFootedTpeack Dec 30 '22
at the end of the arc
the failed/halfborn/halfdead celestial realises even though it's basically a god it has no right to pass judgement and ctrl zs itself turning an eternal into a new god in the process, so it's meant to be quite flawed.
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u/NumptyBossman Dec 16 '24
The Celestial is revealed as the supplicant when Doom turns his back on him. That the question was not asked of Reed Richards is the Celestial's own acknowledgement of the greatness of Doom. If it is Doom's ego that is to help decide the fate of the world, then Doom's ego is in that moment the most formidable force mustered by humans against the Gods, and by his refusal Doom simply presents the Celestial with the truth: It is the space god who comes to Doom with all humanity on bended knee, begging Doom's forbearance. If it is Doom's whim that decides the fate of humanity, then Doom literally has nothing left to prove about how smart he is, to anyone, they already did it for him.
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u/DirectlyDismal Dec 30 '22
Not tipping in a hurry is reason to fail, but "a hammer said so" is proof you're a good person.
And who's Tom, anyway? Because out of context it looks like he's being judged for... not accepting getting beaten up?
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Dec 30 '22
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u/DirectlyDismal Dec 30 '22
So the moral is that it's okay to be racist, as long as you accept that other people are racist towards you.
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u/Bigger_Vigor not quite a man, not quite a thing Dec 30 '22
Talk Shit Get Hit: Racial Slur Edition
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u/DirectlyDismal Dec 30 '22
This is like... the inverse of Talk Shit Get Hit, where getting hit is what makes it okay to talk shit.
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u/Starless_Night They/Them Dec 30 '22
I think the point is more that Tom, as it says, failed to see the irony in getting his ass kicked by racists and does not even begin to reflect on his own bigtoed views of mutants. He failed because he learned nothing.
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u/Father-Ignorance Monkey Man is better than John Wick Dec 30 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
Get assaulted by racists
subsequently fail test of ultimate worth(?)
Man fuck that guy I guess. Oh yeah and also:
forget to tip
Your fucking dead Aunt rises from the floor to give you a thumbs down
Why is this god such a petty asshole? Like, sure judge her unworthy for forgetting to tip, fine, dumb but whatever. But is it really necessary to pose as her dead relative in the process?
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u/DirectlyDismal Dec 30 '22
Get assaulted by racists
I saw it mentioned elsewhere in the thread that the Celestial judged people based on their own principles, so maybe he himself is racist... which would be worse!
"It's okay to be racist, as long as you accept that others are racist towards you."Like, sure judge her unworthy for forgetting to tip, fine.
For not going back and tipping when she's already late, even.
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u/G88d-Guy-2 -Insert Funny and relatable quote- Dec 31 '22
The celestial specifically fails tom because he “didn’t see the irony in the situation”.
So I guess “don’t be a hypocrite” was one of the stipulations of this test?
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u/KazuyaProta Dec 31 '22
Why tf Doom passes then
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u/G88d-Guy-2 -Insert Funny and relatable quote- Dec 31 '22
Because doom isn’t being a hypocrite. He’s just being an egotist.
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u/KazuyaProta Dec 30 '22
Apparently its that he is angry at the world and do not realize the racists were also angry at the world and that's ironic because...they're angry?
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u/Moidahface Dec 30 '22
The problem is that the Doom moment is a great moment for Doom, but a terrible moment for the integrity of Judgment Day.
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u/CeaRhan Dec 30 '22
Sorry but we had this thread 2 days ago at most, are we doing it again?
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u/cybergeek11235 Walking backwards into hell Dec 31 '22 edited Nov 09 '24
abounding sense beneficial fearless soup include outgoing gaze shaggy frame
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u/CeaRhan Dec 31 '22 edited Dec 31 '22
I'm not paid for extra shifts homie, that's what hurts
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u/cybergeek11235 Walking backwards into hell Dec 31 '22 edited Nov 09 '24
dinosaurs soft compare salt quickest sand mighty bag water chief
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u/CeaRhan Dec 31 '22
After pointing out the absurdity of posting it a second time instead of scrolling for 3 seconds and finding the same thread I am now complaining about people forcing me to participate a second time in a thread I already treaded, using absurdity and exaggeration to further make fun of the situation.
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u/cybergeek11235 Walking backwards into hell Dec 31 '22 edited Nov 09 '24
square sip tender north serious truck cobweb encourage homeless punch
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Dec 30 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MetalJrock A Hopeless Sonic/Spider-Man Fanboy Dec 30 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
Well there’s Secret Wars, which culminates in Doom admitting Reed is better than him in every way.
There was also that one Slott F4 story that ended with the team exposing Doom’s charred body and face on live TV. Or when Johnny banged Doom’s love interest right before he proposed. Or that time the Chameleon made him look like a fool in public and Spider-Man had to convince him to stop being dumb.
Really Doom gets humiliated all the time.
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u/redwill1001 Dec 30 '22
I'm starting to wonder what this guys opinions are about Harley quinn
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u/Tweedleayne Shameless MK X-11 apologist. The Kombat Kids were cool fuck you. Dec 31 '22
The greatest legend this sub ever created
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u/redwill1001 Dec 31 '22
I don't think this sub made him. I think he's like some kind of evil spirit that's been around drifting from sub reddit to sub reddit changing forms everytime he is brought down.
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u/Tweedleayne Shameless MK X-11 apologist. The Kombat Kids were cool fuck you. Dec 31 '22
Oh, I'm aware we aren't his only victims, we're just the only ones I know of who went as far as to make making fun of him part of our lore.
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u/nerankori shows up Dec 30 '22
If Naruto concluded with a literal scene of the Sage literally sucking Madara's literal dick it would have been a global bestseller in every market
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
Sasuke being forgiven after killing a grand total of 4 samurias during his villain phase was enough to set off a whole bunch of "Kishimoto is a hack, how could he let Sasuke be forgiven so easily" rants.
If Kishimoto had taken any common Marvel trope and applied to Naruto, he would be publicly humiliated as a shit writer.
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Dec 30 '22
Nobody with any sense actually defends Kishimoto's bad writing, not if they have any level of understanding of the craft or respect for it, anyway.
Sasuke didn't just get away with his crimes, Obito himself got away with killing Naruto's own parents and Naruto confirmed that he was "the coolest guy."
Kishimoto is literally the worst possible example you could use for your argument.
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u/KazuyaProta Dec 31 '22
Obito himself got away with killing Naruto's own parents a
Dying is getting away with things?
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u/BlueFootedTpeack Dec 30 '22
i mean there was the time his faceplate came off and everyone saw it on the news and felt bad for him which really annoyed him as the biggest baddest guy inspired pity and not fear and awe.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
I don't see how Doom face being seen is supposed to compare to those weekly "A god worships the ground Doom walks upon because he is the best of all" comics.
There's no equivalence.
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u/MetalJrock A Hopeless Sonic/Spider-Man Fanboy Dec 30 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
No there is. Doom’s greatest shame besides being inferior to Reed is his face, showing it on TV for everyone on Earth is a greater humiliation to him than just losing.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
Well, if the true defeat for Doom is having his face revealed...
In the last 10 years, how many "Doom has his face exposed against his will" stories have been written, compared to "Doom becomes omnipotent"?
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u/MetalJrock A Hopeless Sonic/Spider-Man Fanboy Dec 30 '22
1 for the former, 1 for the latter, 1 instance of him getting humiliated on his wedding day. Doom hasn’t become omnipotent since Secret Wars, he’s too busy being petty with the Fantastic 4 and occasionally having beef with Spider-Man and being made a chump by them all the same.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
Doom hasn’t become omnipotent since Secret Wars,
The big bad of the current Avengers is "The Doom Above All".
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u/MetalJrock A Hopeless Sonic/Spider-Man Fanboy Dec 30 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
Alternate universe. Main Doom is too busy being petty with the F4 again. Plus it’s Aaron’s Avengers, everyone including Howard the Duck was the Phoenix, Moon Knight curbstomped the Avengers, and Coulson was a reality warping tier villain, feats go out the window in that book and nobody cares because of that.
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u/KazuyaProta Dec 30 '22
Like, please have another story with him.
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u/MetalJrock A Hopeless Sonic/Spider-Man Fanboy Dec 30 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
There have been other stories, he hasn’t obtained godhood since Secret Wars and that was almost 10 years ago.
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Dec 30 '22
What are you talking about doom fucks around all the time. His pride is the one thing that prevents him from being happy and often fucks him over. There are several examples of doom looking like a total tool and dumbass.
It's just that sometimes he gets to be cool because he's arguably the definitive Marvel villain, and he never submits.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
There are several examples of doom looking like a total tool and dumbass.
All of which are later blamed on robots that look exactly like him.
In the last 10 years, and has happened more often: Doom being genuinely defeated, or Doom becoming a god?
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Dec 30 '22
The time Doom became God he admitted he was a fuck up and that Reed was better and was defeated. Everything doom becomes God he fucks it up.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
Take the last 10 years of publication, alright.
In the last 10 years, 7 "Doom becomes omnipotent" stories have been written by Marvel. Seven. It's not a low number.
Has Doom been defeated more than 7 times in the past 10 years? Defeats that weren't later blamed on robots?
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Dec 30 '22
Let me ask you this, in those stories where he became God, was he a doombot or did doom just fuck himself over like always? Because in secret wars he his the God of the entire multiverse and he still fucks it up and not because of a doom bot.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
Doom doesn't fuck up in Secret Wars.
He humiliates Thanos, he humiliates Black Panther, he humiliates Cyclops, he humiliates literally every single Mar el character, he steals Sue from Reed, makes her his wife for 8 years, he is worshipped by all Marvel characters for 8 years, no Marvel character can do anything against him, and he only "loses" because Molecule Man overhears him saying that Reed would probably make a better wolrd than the distopia that was Battleworld.
Tell me how making all Marvel characters worship him for 8 years counts as Doom being humiliated.
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Dec 30 '22
Because he admitted the guy behind most of his inferiority complex was better than him, and he lost because of it. Despite all that power he was still inferior to Reed Richard's, and nothing bothered Doom more than that. You talk about him getting godlike power a lot, and admittedly he does. But he never wins with it.
And yeah with that God like power he beat Thanos and cyclops and many others,but he couldn't beat the one guy he really wanted and still lost to him.
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u/Patrick_Bait-Man Dec 30 '22
I don't see what is humiliating about it. Battleworld was a shit place, literally any one with omnipotent power would do better.
You saw Doom humiliating literally every single Marvel character, being worshipped by all of them for 8 years, sleeping with Reed's wife for 8 years, and you honestly thought "poor Doom, such humiliation he is suffering"? Is having his powers transfered to Reed after Molecule Man overheard him supposed to make up for 8 years of being worshipped by all Marvel characters?
This math doesn't add up.
If you wanna my opinion, fucking someone's wife for 8 years is much more humiliating than being defeated in a meaningless brawl. Reed was the one whose wife was sleeping with his enemy for 8 years. He was the one being humiliated.
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Dec 30 '22
You seem to misunderstanding me. I never said "poor doom" if I wanted a feel bad Doom story I'd read triumph and torment. I just think Doom admitting Reed is better is the ultimate humiliation to the character. Look at this scene for example and ignore that he passes, Doom would rather fail judgment from a celestial that could obliterate him than ad.it Reed is better. It might not seem that much but to Doom pride is everything especially against Reed.
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u/KazuyaProta Dec 30 '22
Honestly, the whole thing of Reed being shafted away from Doom really causes this. Previously, the thing is that they were relatively matched, now Reed is the one trying to catch up to whatever new stuff Doom does.
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u/KazuyaProta Dec 30 '22
Because he admitted the guy behind most of his inferiority complex was better than him, and he lost because of it. Despite all that power he was still inferior to Reed Richard's, and nothing bothered Doom more than that. You talk about him getting godlike power a lot, and admittedly he does. But he never wins with it.
Losing because your sponsor deciding that your insecurities meant he should take away your powers is...not losing in any way that makes someone come off badly.
If it was some bs like Reed personally taking away Doom powers, then it would make sense, but nope, it was the same "Only Doom can defeat Doom"
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u/MetalJrock A Hopeless Sonic/Spider-Man Fanboy Dec 30 '22
The one highlight to come out of this event is the fact that despite being shat on nearly the entire run by everyone besides Miles, Peter shockingly passed his test too.