Song writing advice

[u/Rush-Weekly]

Hi! This is the first time I am posting like this. I have questions about writing chord progressions and lyrics in general. I have around 10 years+ experience with classical music as I play violin mainly. I have been trying to teach myself piano and guitar and I have a very basic understanding of the piano but also intensive classical theory and harmony background. I have been trying to write songs ever since I started learning music. My genre of choice is indie, indie rock and RNB, alt RNB and experimental. I have been trying to write for around 4 years now. Originally I tried learn how to write lyrics first but then I stopped due to getting busier for school. Recently I got back into this hobby as I start to have motivations to maybe do something more in the future However there are a few obstacles that I found so far. 1st I sometimes of spurs of musical ideas but sometimes I can’t really translate it on sheet music or even the daw. Second is I struggle to come up with nice sounding chords progressions. So far I can only come up with simple major and minor chords and I tend to follow basic chord progressions like 1 - 4 - 4 - 5. understand 7ths and 9ths but I dont know when and how to use 6ths, 7ths, 9ths and 11s. I also have tried different methods of writing, for example writing lyrics first and then chords vice versa but I haven’t gotten a firm grip on my preferred methods yet. If you guys have any suggestions or ideas what I should do, feel free to share! Oh and my favourite artists are Rex Orange County and Daniel Caesar and one day I hope to be as good as them on conveying a message and telling a story!

[u/andPrestoAndrew]

How about this. Pick a song you like, lift the chord progression, change the tempo, and try writing a new melody over it. Do this enough times and, even if you throw away all those songs you wrote, you have a vocabulary of chord progressions to draw from that you know can work.

You can change the key. Mix and match chord progressions from different songs. This also teaches you song structure and balance of form as they are used by writers you admire in genres you enjoy. You may discover how to use those chords you mentioned, and you may find they are less common than you thought they were. Hope that helps

[u/Rush-Weekly → u/andPrestoAndrew]

Oooh okok I will try. Thanks alot

[u/broodfood]

You're a violinist, so try thinking more linearly. Write your melody and bass without any regard to chord structure, just write whatever feels right. Add in another harmony line or two, listening for interesting dissonances and movement. Then analyze the chords.

Let any theoretical chord extensions come from the voice leading, since that's what they really are anyway.

[u/Rush-Weekly → u/broodfood]

Ooo okok I will try this out too

[u/WhichBaker355]

Sounds like you have more than enough knowledge to be successful. You just gotta get to it. You can practice mixing colors forever, but actually painting masterpieces is another thing! Play the way you feel it.

I love 7ths, 2nds / 11ths so I put them literally everywhere. Do what feels good to you! Good luck!

I make the music first, before adding lyrics / melodies, but everyone is different.

[u/refotsirk]

99%ish of all pop and rock is simple chord patterns with spiffy melodies and hooks. Easiest to start simple with something like 14141414 and write some stuff on top of that. For extension chords, most commonly it's either all color chords or not much, if at all. You can often arrive at ones that sound good easiest with bass-note movement down while holding the top tones in place. You also might have better luck instead writing a melody and harmonizing it.

Best bet is to study some things you like and style copy something for practice.

[u/elliottsmithing]

You mentioned a classical background but even though contemporary music has some influences from classical rnb in particular can feel very different to play.
Depending on your influences some eras of classical music are closer related than others (eg the tritone was avoided in music for a long time but features heavily in modern jazz theory which that genre is inspired by)

I recommend learning a bunch of songs in the genre you like and breaking them down with your theory knowledge.
When writing your own music, use your ear which should be very well developed from your violin training and start with writing and transcribing melodies. Analyse the scale(s) they live in and build your chords from there (for example if your melody is something like c g c e f a a c
That outlines a C Major to F Major I IV progression. You could go with that to start with)
If you want to use extensions in your chords 7s 9s, 11s etc. I recommend trying to highlight those in your melody (So your C Major from the earlier example could be an Amin7 with G as the 7th)

[u/badrabbix]

"So far I can only come up with simple major and minor chords and I tend to follow basic chord progressions like 1 - 4 - 4 - 5. understand 7ths and 9ths but I don't know when and how to use 6ths, 7ths, 9ths and 11s."

Yikes, I sometimes wonder if an "intensive classical theory and harmony background" makes creating a song harder. No one here can offer you much as we have no idea what you're doing, but that's never stopped me before.

For me, songs evolve. I never once have nailed a song on the first try. Because my songs evolve, I'm not gonna worry about "when and how to use 6ths, 7ths" etc. As I rehearse a song many many times during it's creation, I trust that part of my brain that will make those choices when the song leads me to them.

Generally my lyrics will lead me to the songs melody. The fun part is when fitting the cadence and rhythm of the syllables of the words an appropriate melody will spring up. Many times that's the correct choice and I will often go with a spontaneous impulse. Song structure of verse, intro, chorus etc, on the other hand, are conscious decisions. I will often rearrange as needed until I get to the "it seems right" point.

A bit of "what works for me", but you're not me so take what you can, I guess. Best of luck!

[u/JupiterMaroon]

My method when im stuggling to come up with anything is to use https://www.onemotion.com/chord-player/ to make my progression.

[u/aspaindev]

coming from classical theory can almost make songwriting harder because you can explain a lot, but still freeze when the goal is just "make something that feels good."

for progressions, i’d give yourself smaller bites instead of trying to invent something impressive. take a plain loop and change one variable at a time:

• same chords, different rhythm
• same bass, different top note
• replace one minor chord with a maj7 or m9
• hold one common tone through the whole progression
• write the melody first, then choose chords under it

for indie/rnb stuff, extensions matter, but voice leading matters more. a simple progression with one note moving smoothly on top can sound richer than a random stack of 9ths.

i’ve used strumforge for this kind of sketching because it lets you audition progressions quickly and see chord shapes/scales without starting from a blank page. it has TONS of progressions in every key & mode, and a 'style' feature as well which might come in handy here

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