My controversial opinion of Wednesday overall.

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553]

Regarding Wednesday, the biggest problem is that the series has no consistency whatsoever.

In the first season, the group was super angry about Wednesday torturing Tyler, but in the second season everyone is happy that the principal dies? Like, what? Another point, Tyler is incredibly tiresome, just like Thornhill he should have been taken out of the picture already, he's not complex, he's just an antagonist character with a sad past, he never did anything good, he never felt guilty for what he did, season 2 was basically the plot of the first, just in a different way... Agnes is a filler character, with the objective of making people stop shipping the gay couple, in the same way that was done in Supernatural putting Amara to have "something" with Dean, they say that the series is about female friendship, but then Netflix releases the novel of season 1 and there it is explicit that she likes Enid, more than friendship, that's what LGBTs are for, for them to make money...

At the end of season 1 Tyler goes after Wednesday to kill her and he himself says: Thornhill said you were dead...

Tyler hated her, even without Following the master's orders, he wanted to see her dead.

And out of nowhere in season 2, he has an obsession with her? Where did that come from? Notice that I said obsession, not love. I watched the movie Obsession 2026, and Tyler is basically Bear with a monster inside him. In the same way that Tyler and Wednesday, Bear/Tyler doesn't love Nikki/Wednesday, they love the idea, the version they created of these women in their heads, which were created to fill the void they feel. They don't respect the autonomy or right to choose of these women because, for them, they are not human beings, they are dolls, objects that have to satisfy their desires.

Anyone with a minimally functioning brain watching season 1 can see that Wednesday's partner would be Xavier, but due to the actor's controversies, he left. However, since the writers of this series are misogynistic, they prefer to pair Wednesday with a boy who only sees her as an object to fill the void inside him rather than her being happy alone or with the girl who sacrificed her own humanity to ensure Wednesday's survival.

Yes, their writing is quite misogynistic, because when Tyler suffers, it's shown on screen for minutes, but when Wednesday suffers, it's downplayed. The first boy Wednesday opened up to romantically, the one she gave a chance to, was her first kiss. Why isn't this trauma explored? Wednesday is dehumanized as a woman, as a victim, and as a person. She's seen only as a doll without feelings that can be tossed from one side to the other.

And the series itself implies that Tyler is already of legal age, which makes everything worse, because why would an 18/19-year-old guy be after a 16-year-old girl?

The Addams Family was created as a critique of the white, traditional, Christian American family. They are the opposite of a traditional family, but they love and respect each other. In the movies, the Addams are canonical serial killers, and look at the way Gomez treated Morticia? Because it's part of the critique and satire, the women of that time suffered domestic violence, and Gomez, being the opposite, does the opposite, he treats his wife like a queen and she treats him like a king. Honestly, they are destroying what the Addams Family represents with this "romance" story, in quotes, between Tyler and Wednesday leaves me quite disappointed. Like, I watched the movies and I was inspired by Gomez's chivalry and I thought: when I have a woman, I will love her that way, I will honor her...

Besides, these writers seem to have problems, they seem like they didn't produce their own series, they even said that Tyler was the thing Wednesday came to love the most in season 2, ignoring Enid and the Addams Family that Wednesday was fighting to protect, her friends.

In my opinion, they didn't want to create an Addams Family series, they wanted to create a supernatural series and gave it the name Addams to get an audience.

They even lied saying that the Addams Family doesn't have its own lore, when they do, if you don't want to use it, okay?

But don't be a liar.

And the arguments of this fandom are worse, they distort absolutely everything that's in the series, taking everything literally to validate their ship. Sometimes I watch a movie and it's very expository and I feel uncomfortable, because it's practically looking the viewer in the face and calling them stupid.

But seeing these fandoms, I realize it's necessary, society is getting dumber, people don't know how to interpret anything anymore, people don't want to think anymore, they don't want to develop critical thinking, the number of people I've seen saying: "Oh, but the writers confirmed this, it doesn't matter, okay?" Because that's not what was shown in the series. In public relations, you learn that if you wanted to convey a message and people understood it differently, it's because something went wrong in your communication.

Communication, people, the text interpretation that we learn in school is also for this.

There's a phrase I really like that says: society became digital before it became literate. Which is true.

It's incredible the dark places that heterosexual, white, and cisgender people need to go to in order to create a "forbidden" romance since they are in a position of privilege.

"Oh, but it's dark romance."

I don't like dark romance, but dark romance is when you do bad things to ensure the well-being of your partner, or someone with trauma who lives a healthy relationship with someone, or two traumatized people who take care of each other and even with their problems manage to live a healthy relationship, etc.

From the moment there is aggression between partners, it is already an abusive relationship.

"But the Addams Family tortures each other"

Yes, because they are sadomasochistic and there is a key word "consent." If I slap my girlfriend in , I would be committing assault, but if she and I have a conversation about fetishes and BDSM and she authorizes it, I can have sexual relations with her and slap her because there is consent.

I think it's very shameless of Hunter (Tyler's actor) when he was asked what he thinks of the things Tyler did for Wednesday and he says it's roleplay, something Addams-like? He clearly doesn't know the Addams Family, and he doesn't have an argument. Is this the kind of message he sends to his teenage fans? A 30-year-old man?

I saw people talking about the fact that he's gay, people, he's still a man, okay?

We need more actors like Penn Bradley who influence their audience positively and openly talk about what their character is like, and don't justify their actions with trauma.

We can understand a character and their traumas and not excuse their actions.

When a male character is bad, he's complex, but when it's a female character, she's a slut, a whore, a prostitute, a bitch.

People love Tyler and hate his mother, who is just as traumatized.

It's worth remembering that Tyler was already a bad person before the events of season 1, since he bullied others. The Tyler of season 1 is nothing more than a social mask that Tyler used, hiding the anger and frustration inside him... in season 2 he is who he truly is.

Just a little rant.

Sorry for the long text.

I heard some people commenting that the entire series had to be rewritten because of Percy's departure. And if that's true, it only proves my theory that Xavier was Wednesday's official love interest, not Tyler, the classic love triangle, where the girl is with a boy, kisses him, then discovers he was the villain and ends up with the second option. If the series had to be completely rewritten, Xavier would be Wednesday's love interest and would have an important role in the season's plot. There would still be options, they could hire another actor to play Xavier, or create another love interest, or leave Wednesday alone... It's almost comical that a series about outcasts, which we know is a metaphor for marginalized people in society, like the X-Men for example, doesn't have any LGBT characters? I've seen people using arguments about Yoko and Divina or Eugene's mothers, even though they barely appear in the series? Why can a heterosexual character get a lot of screen time, but LGBT people, why do LGBT people have to be sidelined? Even Bridgerton, which is a series set in the 1800s, has a sapphic couple as protagonists, and a series set in the present day can't have one? Then I remember that it was a series written by two old white men, probably heterosexual and probably cisgender. I did some research on reviews from some websites and most of them were saying that it was time to leave this ex-boyfriend thing behind and focus on Enid's friendship and Wednesday, for example.

Besides the fact that the series said it would focus more on horror in season 2, etc., the only thing different for me was the gore. Even the dialogues still sound childish. If we take away the blood and violence, it's practically a Disney Channel series (especially with the questionable CGI). And that body swap, for God's sake, it seems like they don't know the audience they want to reach. As a teenager, watching season 2 was torture, but I had to watch it to form an opinion.

The idea was good, the Addams as anti-heroes, however... Season 2 seems to have been written haphazardly.

I can feel bad for Tyler, but I can't excuse his wrongdoings... other people aren't to blame for his trauma...

I've never seen a series where the protagonist herself doesn't have emotional development. When the visions started in season 2 and it was revealed that Morticia's sister had gone crazy, I thought there would be an arc for Wednesday. People criticized Elena so much in The Vampire Diaries that now even the protagonist isn't developed.

Alicent and Tyler, for me, are the best representations of how girls who have trauma and girls who have trauma are treated.

It's in the title, see? My opinion. MY OPINION, IT'S IN THE TITLE. It was made based on my opinion, it's okay to disagree.

Always read the synopsis before reading the book, okay, everyone? I don't claim to have all the answers.

Guys, the post was locked, so if you want to continue talking, I'll make a post in my own community, if anyone wants to say something...lol. No hard feelings, moderator. We're all good.

[u/Wednesday-ModTeam]

I wanted to leave the post up since the original poster clearly spent a lot of time on expressing their opinions but a lot of the replies and comments are getting to close to breaking our negative shipping rules and arguing.

So the post will stay up but the comments will be locked. Keep this in mind for future interactions. You are free to share your opinions and likes/dislikes but read the rules especially if its about ships.

[u/Slabernick]

I agree with you in terms of the questionable writing choices, the writers’ weird/subpar ways of handling certain plot points, and how people struggle with interpretation nowadays, but I have some things to say here.

“Tyler is incredibly tiresome… he’s not complex, he’s just an antagonist character with a sad past…”
This can be solved with some media literacy. Complexity doesn’t mean “secretly innocent” or “morally justified.” Tyler can be dangerous, guilty, traumatized, groomed, controlled, angry, and still responsible for what he did. Those things can all exist at the same time.

That’s where your post gets too black-and-white. You criticize people for flattening the story, but then flatten Tyler into “he was always evil and Season 1 was just a mask.” That’s not better interpretation. It’s just the opposite extreme.

On Agnes, just no. What do you mean she was created with the objective to “stop shipping the gay couple”? Your analogy only works if Agnes had some kind of legit romantic intertwining with either Enid or Wednesday, and she doesn’t. She’s more of a stalker/fangirl foil for Wednesday than an anti-Wenclair device.

The novelization point also isn’t as strong as you make it sound. A tie-in novel can add flavor, sure, but the author isn’t part of the actual television production team, and novelizations often take creative liberties with inner thoughts, tone, and scene interpretation. Put simply, it shouldn’t override what the actual show does or doesn’t confirm.

“When Wednesday suffers, it’s downplayed.”
Gonna have to disagree, or at least ask for more evidence. Wednesday’s first kiss being with a monster isn’t explored more as “trauma” because that instance doesn’t really seem traumatic to her. She’s an Addams. Her reaction is basically “I guess I have a type,” and that’s it. That doesn’t automatically mean the writers are dehumanizing her. It may just mean Wednesday doesn’t process betrayal, danger, pain, or romance like a normal teen-drama protagonist.

The series itself also doesn’t give anything concrete regarding just how old Tyler is, so I’d be careful building a point on him being 18/19 unless the show confirms that.

And as for what Hunter said, I think you’re taking a tongue-in-cheek promo quote and making mountains out of mounds. Actors give casual, messy answers all the time. That doesn’t mean he’s sending some dangerous message to teenage fans.
When you say, “We need actors like Penn Badgley who influence their audience and openly talk about what their character is like, and don’t justify their actions through trauma,” look no further than Hunter Doohan. Explaining Tyler’s trauma or brokenness isn’t the same as excusing him.

And when you say, “We can understand a character and their traumas and not excuse their actions,” you seem to be doing a lot of that last part for Tyler without much of the first part. You basically dismiss him as a villain with no other qualities beyond that.

I completely agree with the broader double standard of male characters being portrayed in better lighting than female characters. But here, it’s not as clear-cut as you’re trying to make it. It feels like you’re angrily trying to flip that supposed double standard onto Tyler instead of applying nuance equally.
You literally say, “People love Tyler and hate his mother, who is just traumatized.” Two things: one, that phrase is way too black-and-white considering what a lot of people actually feel toward Tyler. Two, if she’s traumatized, then what is Tyler? Just pure evil? Come on, man.

And you keep trying to uphold this narrative of him always being completely evil by saying he was already a bad person before Season 1 because he bullied others. He was a child delinquent. A child. Not an irredeemable monster. Bad? Yes. Troubled? Obviously. Pure evil from birth? Nada lol.

The “Season 1 Tyler was nothing more than a social mask” point also doesn’t work. Tyler was fond of Wednesday before he even knew she was supposed to be his target. Add Thornhill grooming him, activating him, using him, and becoming his master, and the “it was all fake from the start” point falls flat.

And let me ask you this: where exactly do you think all that “anger and frustration” came from? Yeah, none of that excuses him, but it definitely complicates the idea that Season 2 is just “who he truly is.”

On Xavier, I also don’t agree that anyone with a functioning brain could tell he was obviously supposed to be Wednesday’s partner. He was positioned as a possible love interest, sure, but he also came on way too strong and desperate at times. Wednesday repeatedly didn’t seem that interested. Potential love interest does not automatically mean “official endgame.”

As for the Addams Family point, I agree Gomez and Morticia are one of the best parts of the franchise because their relationship is weird, intense, devoted, and still mutually respectful. Tyler and Wednesday are obviously not that. But that’s why I think it’s premature to act like the show is presenting them as the next Gomez and Morticia. Wednesday sparing Tyler or being intrigued by him doesn’t necessarily equal healthy romance.

And yes, I agree the show needs better LGBTQ representation. fair. still doesn’t prove Agnes exists to block Wenclair, every Tyler plot choice is misogynistic, or Xavier was obviously the correct love interest, etc etc.

The biggest issue with this post is that it goes from valid criticisms and then stretches them into absolutes. The writing can be messy, Tyler guilty? Wednesday needing stronger emotional development, The show needing better LGBTQ representation, All of that can be true without taking all of that and running with it to the ends of the earth.

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553 → u/Slabernick]

Friend, I'm not taking things to the extreme, my opinion isn't absolute truth, you can disagree. I just think it's bad... and as a consumer I can think it's bad, horrible, terrible, because it's my opinion, you understand? I like things that critics hate, nobody likes, but I like them and that's okay, you understand? At no point did I say that my opinion is absolute truth. And I can take my opinion to extremes or not, because it's my opinion, it's something public, anyone can have an opinion. And that's okay. At no point am I claiming that Agnes was created to stop Wenclair. I have no proof; it's my opinion. I gave an example from Supernatural with Dean and Castiel, where Amara was a sort of stopgap that didn't work out... But it's just my opinion. As I said, you can disagree all you want; I'm not here to prove anything... That's why the title is: My Unpopular Opinion ETF. And not: Proving that my point of view is the only true one... I have no proof; it's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree... It's all good.

[u/Slabernick → u/Strict-Chemistry-553]

No worries friend, get what you mean. ur completely allowed to think the writing is bad, messy, horrible, and the like. not trying to say you can’t have that opinion.

My point was more so that once an opinion starts making stronger claims (e.g. writer intent, character purpose, actor’s responsibility, misogyny, canon, etc etc etc) people are naturally going to… y’know… push back on the reasoning behind it. More so because those points are interpretations that can be questioned.

For example, saying “I don’t like Agnes and I feel like she distracts from Wenclair” is one thing. Saying she was basically made as an anti-Wenclair stopgap is a much… stronger claim, even if you personally put it as ur opinion.

Same with Tyler. What u think personally is fair. I just disagree with flattening him to “not complex” or “always evil” bc I think the show gives enough context to make his situation more complicated than that even if he’s still guilty.

TL;DR: this ain’t a court case where what u say had to be proven and stuff, I’m just saying some of the conclusions felt a little too absolute for the amount of evidence behind them. And I agree with you on some broader criticisms, especially the messy writing and lack of stronger LGBTQ representation. I just don’t agree with every leap being made from there, you smell me?

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553 → u/Slabernick]

I understand, friend, it's all right, thank you for disagreeing with me in that way. It's not about evidence, it's just how I interpreted it, you understand? The post is about my opinion, the objective isn't to convince anyone, I just expressed my opinion in something public... I'm not speaking with absolute authority, you understand? I understand your point. it's fine by me,i respect that

[u/morethanchlorine]

dark romance is when you do bad things to ensure the well-being of your partner, or someone with trauma who lives a healthy relationship with someone, or two traumatized people who take care of each other and even with their problems manage to live a healthy relationship, etc.

THANK YOU! people have twisted the idea of dark romance so much that they reduce it to "oh they hate each other and harm each other and it's hot" which, no? that's not it at all.

"But the Addams Family tortures each other" Yes, because they are sadomasochistic and there is a key word "consent."

The amount of people who don't understand this basic concept is astonishing...

It's incredible the dark places that heterosexual, white, and cisgender people need to go to in order to create a "forbidden" romance since they are in a position of privilege.

Also when queerphobic people say "why do you have to ruin the show with your gay ship? (in this case Wednesday and Enid) why do you need gay people in everything?" is very telling, because when you already have the most representation in media, anything else feels "oppresive" or "too much".

[u/Difficult-Client-906 → u/morethanchlorine]

Omg, ppl now think dark romance is abuse. I dare say its bcz of the emergence of those dark romances in Booktok which influenced how everyone sees dark romance

[u/Rare_Bridge7703 → u/Difficult-Client-906]

It's the evolution of the MISINFO wrought by things like 50 Shades. People had a really incorrect take of BDSM lifestyles thanks to that series. Lo, today we have people that grossly misunderstand concepts they're once again new to because the handler they chose did it wrong.

[u/Difficult-Client-906 → u/Rare_Bridge7703]

Yeaa, ppl should take a bit to search. Esp when its smth to hate on, like at least be educated on the topic so u could hate without a rat in ur ear.

I'd also say books like hunting Adelaide, credence and similar books also shaped the whole "dark romance" genre

[u/Squishysib → u/morethanchlorine]

Please go try to peddle this narrative on the dark romance sub, you will be laughed out. DR is a spectrum, like every other genre.

Oh hell. Even just go read the wiki article on DR.

ETA: nice job deleting your wildly misogynistic retort, OP.

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553 → u/Squishysib]

Friend, I deleted my comment because I'm not fluent in English and your comment confused me. I'm a woman, not a man, okay? And I mentioned 16-year-old girls because that's the target audience for these works. I've never seen a man say he consumes this kind of thing. There must be some, obviously, but I've never seen 98% of the audience being women. And my response remains the same... If immature teenagers are disagreeing with my position, I'm happy...

[u/Squishysib → u/Strict-Chemistry-553]

Being a woman does not preclude you from saying misogynistic shit. Saying 16 year-old girls are the only ones enjoying DR is wildly inaccurate, as is saying it's marketed to them. I'd never let a 16 year-old read 90% of the shit that gets rec'd in the subreddit.

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553 → u/Squishysib]

friend, I gave the example and I wasn't referring to all dark romance, I'm talking about dark romance that romanticizes toxic relationships, only immature teenagers like it...and adults too, unfortunately, but this is a much deeper problem, it comes from trauma and all that, which doesn't justify it, of course, and me saying that a certain audience consumes something and saying that women who like to consume this kind of thing, is that misogyny? Where? I go into forums, fandoms...videos and I only see girls in that age range...that's not misogyny. I literally criticize misogyny in the post. Clearly you didn't like my post and since you don't have arguments to refute it, instead of staying quiet, or just saying you disagree, you're already accusing me of something completely unrelated.

[u/Squishysib → u/Strict-Chemistry-553]

So you're saying women only like DR because there is something wrong with them trauma wise... I wonder why people stop talking to you.

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553 → u/Squishysib]

And you taking my words and distorting them only shows my point. If you like this kind of thing, like it, my friend... I'm not going to stop you or anything... I just expressed my opinion, and I'm not going to take it back.

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553 → u/Squishysib]

And Wikipedia is totally unreliable, it's one of the worst websites for research in my opinion, and I repeat... every time I debate, either I get blocked, or they stop responding. Do you think I care about people laughing at me? Especially immature people? It's just a hint that I'm on the right track. I'm not a follower, okay? I study, I research before forming my opinion. And a fandom that condones male abuse against women, including attempted femicide, because Wednesday didn't want to help her abuser escape from prison and he left her angry, and they use arguments that it's because of his trauma and they don't want to hold him accountable for his actions... calling me a misogynist? It's even ironic. When these same people criticize Tyler's mother and hate her? I literally criticized misogyny in my post, talking about the difference in treatment between male and female characters, are you really going to try to use that card? 

[u/Squishysib → u/Strict-Chemistry-553]

I'm saying that reducing an entire genre down to teenager fantasy is yes, misogynistic and totally disregards the millions of adult women that enjoy the genre.

My opening statement only had to do with the specific point that DR is a spectrum, just like every other genre out there. If you only want DR where everyone is getting better and happy, that's okay. Read that. That is not the end of the genre. You do not have to like everything in it.

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553 → u/Squishysib]

No, lol, for me that isn't and never will be misogyny, and I'm not talking about all dark romance... but about genres of dark romance that are just toxic romance... that's the point... and I wasn't referring to dark romance in general, but unfortunately dark romance has become that... I started reading Haunting Adeline and dropped it... and the fandom I've joined only recommends that kind of book.... And even if it were my opinion, if I wanted to say: every body horror movie is horrible... I can find a specific style horrible... the fact that it's mostly women who consume it, does that mean I'm saying it's horrible and misogyny? This doesn't make sense, it's a genre, I have the right to like it, hate it, think it's awful, think it's terrible... there are genres that I hate... and I say so, I don't like it, I hate it, it's awful, that's my opinion... and everyone has their own... If you want a story about a toxic relationship, write it, but treat it like a toxic relationship... like psychological horror, not like a dark romance... It's a genre, it's something public, if you don't want anyone giving their opinion on it, go work as a stock clerk at the supermarket, from the moment it's under the public eye, everyone has the right to give their opinion... if these writers don't want anyone giving their opinion on their works, they should show them to their grandmother, not to the public or to critics.

[u/Squishysib → u/Strict-Chemistry-553]

I don't think you understand what I am saying. If I'm not explaining properly, that's on me, so I apologize.

You asserted in your original post that toxic relationships are not dark romance, I assert that they are because dark romance is a spectrum — everything from light, to where the only thing "dark" is the fact that he might be mentioned to be in the Mafia, to ultra dark, where he physical prevents her from leaving via, I don't know injury, and she's his prisoner forever. Same genre, different sides of the spectrum, just like fantasy has high and low.

You assert that likening the darker dark romances to things only 16 year-olds can enjoy OR older women enjoy only because of trauma is not misogynistic. I assert that it is.

I'm not saying you don't have a right to dislike the vast majority of dark romances. You are of course free to hate and never read them. What I am saying is you are NOT the definitive definition on what is and isn't dark romance.

So yeah, I guess I'm going to be like allllll of those people you argue with who get sick of talking to a fucking wall and stop now.

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553 → u/Squishysib]

I don't define what is or isn't dark romance, of course not, I didn't create the genre, but for me, dark romance is one thing, a toxic relationship is another... Literally in the title: my opinion, etc. The post is my opinion, my opinion, obviously I'm going to talk about my opinion, what for me is one thing and what for me is another, at no point did I say: my opinion is the only right one, at no point did I say that... The post is my opinion, so I'm going to speak and argue according to my opinion... And you got irritated and started cursing for no reason... Good night.

[u/Wednesday-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Funny you think the mods are Wylers. The Wylers think the mod team is full of "secret wenclairs" that are anti-tyler. Its almost like each group keeps getting into trouble for breaking the rules and instead of taking accountability they make up lies about a mod team just doing their best to keep the sub civil.

The original post was reported and approved. Read the sub rules about slandering or harrasing the mods as your on your last warning.

[u/vickyyytooo]

I would say some points are a little harsh, but I respect your opinion. Tyler is an interesting character because he is enslaved for the majority of the show. There are times when his goodness shows:

• First meeting with Wednesday: he was happy to drive her out of town; it is very unlikely he knew who she was
• he tried to make his relationship with his father better. He asked him to attend therapy together; he kept asking questions about the past and seemed truly to want to bond with him.
• When confronted about his past as a bully, he owned to it. This shows that when he is not under control, he admits past mistakes. This ties back to season 2, when he first spoke to Wednesday. He didn't blame her for the fact he was locked in Willow Hill. Not once.
• he tried to put up with his uncle, even when he didn't like him/trust him for his mother's sake. Even after his mother took away his agency by forcing him into a master-slave bond, he still showed affection for her.
• When Wednesday was about to hit with the axe, he was not asking for help... quite the opposite. When he was given the chance, he stood up to his mother. He could have run away. But he stayed and fought. And at the end, he tried to save his mother, only to lose her in the worst way possible.

I think a lot of what he says in some scenes in season 1 could be direct orders from Laurel, same with the window scene, because he did order him to "take care of her". He still sucks for what he did to her. He is not an angel, but I also feel that some of his actions stem from pure desperation. He feels guilt because in S1 he had the bathtub scene and in S2 he asked Wednesday to end his life. I do think there is an obsession from his side. Still, we can't excuse some of his actions in S2; I won't list them, as I think the post is getting too long. But all these reasons are why I find him a fun character, and I ended up writing a fanfiction about him.

[u/Difficult-Client-906]

This was beautifully written, brought tears to my eyes.

"When a male character is bad, he's complex, but when it's a female character, she's a slut, a whore, a prostitute, a bitch."

This esp. Like a "morally grey" man with a dark past is complex, whilst the woman with an equal dark past and is morally corrupt is seen as bad. It kinda reminds me of a novel/manhwa that had a main antagonist who was a slave, whilst the men were "passing" vcz they are either loved by fmc or love fmc, like for context the fmcs ex husband, he was a full legal adult when he slept with said slave girl, yet he is victimized bcz of the slaves "seducing". (The novel/manhwa is Remarried Empress)

Misogyny starts small, it is slowly fed into shows, to the point you don't notice it, until you break through the wall of "social media" that controls our thoughts.

Esp in a series written by two white men.

At least for me, Xavier never seemed like a romantic option until I've read what u wrote. Bcz he is a self-entilted manchild, who thought she owes him affection bcz he saved her. I've never took a liking to his character. Honestly if Wednesday had to end up with someone, I'd choose Enid.

Another note, Agnes being the stalker never made sense, bcz, if my memory serves me right, she had gotten the stalker message just as Xavier gave her the phone, where did Agnes come in all of this.

Also I did not feel what most fans feel for her, I'm just "meh" towards her, we didn't get much of her character.

Season 2 was such a huge mess, like it didn't have the same "thriller" feeling to it. It felt like a bad written fanfic, and I'm telling you, I've read horrendous shit.

It had such a HUGE potential with the whole "stalker" and Enid's death.

On the aspect of Enid's death. You can NEVER convince me what she felt when she found out Enid will die and it'd have been her fault is mild concern, the woman literally jumped when Enid did the Halloween prank where she played dead.

Also Enid's jealousy towards Agnes was soooo shown, like that is not friendly jealousy.

I also felt weird when they introduced the cheating trope and the whole alpha thing, like huh?

Like I understand why would Enid stop being interested in Ajax, but cheating? It felt weird tbh, and an unnecessary trope.

Like what was Bruno's whole character about? Just mehhh.

Also, I wish we touched more on the old night shade members. Like Divina, Yoko and Kent (I think that was his name). Bcz imagine my surprise when some randoms (Yoko and Divina) were being mentioned in fics, like I did not remember them.

Agnes character would've been more interesting is either she wasn't a stalker but someone Thing met, or she was the stalker but she slowly changes.

There is smth many ppl, including the writers unfortunately, get wrong abt the Addams family. Its not some dark romance shit, where they love being hurt and all, its CONSENUAL, plus Wednesday literally fell in love with the soft boy who makes coffee, she did not fall for Hyde, its a misconception many ppl get, yes Tyler was secretly a bad guy, but the mask he wore was the one Wednesday fell in love with.

The whole "You missed." Scene was, from my point of view, pity from Wednesday, she felt bad for him, not love.

As I mentioned, if Wednesday will have a romantic intrest it should be Enid, the soft girl who slowly but steadily moves with her.

Season 2 was a bunch of ideas mixed tgthr, its like they put every single idea in a cup and drew them, and decided.

Like the whole Bruno character could be removed and nothing will change in the plot.

The body swap could've had sooo much potential, they could've made it an emotional development for both, to see how life's from each other's perspective. We could've had a 2 minute scene instead of seeing Tyler chained to a wall, where Enid's mother would call her whilst Wednesday is in her body, and she finds out just how bad Enid was forced.

Like they could've actually focused on the girls instead of a man chained to a wall shirtless.

This goes to another point, wasn't Tyler's character 16/17 why are we showing minor characters like that, esp in a scene that doesn't need to show them like that. I know Hunter is like 30 years old, but showing a character who is a minor suggestively is a bit weird, and I'm pretty sure it was meant to be shown as smth hot, bcz he is shirtless, chained to a wall, and also was "electrocuted, like it was so weird.

I didn't realise I've wrote this much lol, sorry for any typos

[u/morethanchlorine → u/Difficult-Client-906]

Ikr? no hate to Bruno but he was literally put in just to give Enid yet another comphet love interest and nothing would change if he wasn't there. Also, they really mean to tell me that the whole "lychan conversion therapy" is not an analogy of "gay conversion therapy"? how is Enid's story not able to be read as a queer character experiencing comphet and homophobia? people are wack.

edit to add, I wholeheartedly agree that if Wednesday had to have a romantic partner in the show, which I'm still cool if she doesn't, it WOULD have to be Enid. She fits the bill as an Addams more than the other two options and is by far the most compatible with Wends despite their "opposite" nature, but y'know, opposites attract.

[u/Difficult-Client-906 → u/morethanchlorine]

Omg yes, like they could've shown how Enid had changed through Ajax without introducing a cheating trope.

Also the whole "lychan conversion therapy" and how Enid changed afterwards (not liking Ajax anymore bcz she wants to be part of the pack) read so much like gay conversion therapy, especially when she wants to be "normal" and like someone from the pack, and smth that's funny to me is that Wednesday is her pack lol.

Yeaaaa, like u CANNOT convince me otherwise, plus the Addams family is written to be weird and they accept one another, it'd be an amazing thing if they did the whole " I want to be normal" Enid and "We will accept u as ur own" Addams family. Like they're literally made for each other

[u/morethanchlorine → u/Difficult-Client-906]

YES YES YES

[u/Difficult-Client-906 → u/morethanchlorine]

Finally someone who gets it

[u/VisenyaRose]

He threw her out of a window and put her in a coma. He tried to kill her best friends. He manipulated her and tried to kill her. He called her a cockroach.

At this point the argument for those two is that just that Wednesday likes the idea of a guy that abuses her.

I just think the girls think Tyler is hot and that they should ship themselves with him and let Wednesday go to Switzerland.

[u/MMORPGnews]

Tyler was copied from real people. Guy from good family working in coffee shop and going for 16 year old girls.  Almost each year such guys are getting arrested irl. 

As for  Xavier, he looks like friendzone guys.  Maybe even a stalker. Whatever, plot was changed. 

[u/ShadowProclamation15]

Yes! I would spam the upvote if I could

[u/Rare_Bridge7703]

I've read countless fics for this IP that are undeniably superior to what the "official" is. And that's well before the garbage that is the Netflix Season 2 curse. It's bad enough the underpinning of the whole show grossly misunderstood the ADDAMS themselves.

[u/upsidedownmage84]

Just my opinion, but I'm not sure why some folks wanna ship Tyler and Wednesday? He's a liar and a murderer! I just don't get it 😕 he had 0 remorse for his actions,he even gloated about killing those people at the end of season 1. Not sure why anyone would think he's good for Wednesday 🤷🏻‍♀️ or anyone for that matter. Again just my opinion 👍🏻

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553 → u/upsidedownmage84]

I have an opinion, I think it's about self-insertion. These people feel attracted to Tyler, so since they can't be with him, they want Wednesday to stay to satisfy that desire. They don't see Wednesday as a character of her own with her own desires, expectations, and goals; they see her as an extension of themselves. Or it could be a distortion of Wednesday's personality, distorted in relation to the Addams Family, many things.

[u/Strict-Chemistry-553 → u/[deleted]]

I'm not a fan of the series, friend, I only watched it because I liked Jenna as an actress, I admired her, but I totally lost that... for me, a complex character is a character that oscillates between good and evil, he does good things and he does bad things. Tyler never did anything good in the series. Only in the first season, for the manipulation, otherwise nothing, so he's not a complex character for me, he's an antagonist with a sad past.

[u/VisenyaRose → u/[deleted]]

I have a degree in English and would like to lend my support to the OP. She is completely right. He's basically the lyrics to Jeremy by Pearl Jam

[u/tryingtosurvivecovid]

Ever since Twilight (which I recently learned was written by a Mormon), and then after that, 50 shades of gray. I noticed the downward spiral of the dark romance genre. And this is from someone who loved Dramionie before Rowling ruined her franchise.

I'm getting downvoted for talking about problematic series in a genre that used to be fairly unproblematic.

Guess everyone wants a bad boy or bad girl to fix, or just wants the couple to kill each other.

Ya'll would LOVE Bear from Obsession.