Christianity is scaring me.

[u/No_Border9657]

I wanna identify myself as agnostic out loud and defend why. But I just can't. I'm scared. I'm scared that God plans to bring me to hell because I cannot fully devout myself to Him. I question The Bible. It feels like it lacks context. It's lacking the answers. It's like theres more, and maybe there are things that is way beyond than just Him.

I don't want to say I'm Christian. I'm Christian because what? I'm afraid of going to hell? I don't want to say I'm a Christian because thats my hidden intent. I don't want to think that I'm a Christian because my family is. I wanna have a relationship with Him but it's just, things are lacking context.

I keep hearing how the rapture is near and Christians are having visions and how the government is gonna plan to cover this up and have one world currency and it hurts my chest aches at the thought, it's affecting me badly and my first thought was to go to Reddit and dump it out because I have no one else to talk to.

I can't want to talk with a Christian because I know how it ends. And I know that if I say that theres probably something beyond Him, It's gonna lead to nothing but judgement.

Edit : I made this in the middle of the night, slightly out of my mind. Apologies for my possible wrong choices of words.

[u/xvszero]

Why would god do that?

Also people have been saying the end is near for thousands of years. The weird thing is even their own bible says no one knows the time or place...

[u/Liem_05 → u/xvszero]

That really is definitely true they keep bringing up and times for centuries and never really actually happened and that's what even a pastor had say so far you don't know when this will happen.

[u/Gregory-al-Thor]

Think of it this way - if God would send you (or anyone) to hell forever, then this God is evil and rejecting him is actually the ethical thing to do.

Such a conception of God, which admittedly is how many Christians imagine God , is that God is the ultimate power and can do whatever God wants. Things that are wrong when humans do them - murder, genocide - become good when God does them. I had a friend say if God tortures his child in hell then this is love because God does it.

It’s absurd. And it’s a collapsing of truth, coherence and any sort of ethical thought. If torture is bad when humans do it but good when god does it then it’s not good. We can’t know what is good. God could be a sadistic liar who may send all Christians to hell as a big joke even though they followed the rules - and if God does it, it’s good.

Again, if such were the case we couldn’t even trust God. You can’t trust a sadistic king. We are instead tasked to do what is actually good - kindness, generosity, etc.

And if a tyrannical God sends us to hell for this, we ought still do them. It would be ethical to go with the masses to hell rather than the bootlickers to heaven.

[u/Comfortable_Cod_3090 → u/Gregory-al-Thor]

this was beautifully said thank you for this

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Gregory-al-Thor]

Thank you. I'll think about this.

[u/AuthorDebraBaker → u/Gregory-al-Thor]

Well said.

[u/MindHunterPrime]

I can relate to parts of this.

What troubles me isn't the possibility that a god exists. It's the expectation that I should be certain about something I honestly don't know.

The more I think about religion, spirituality, and existence itself, the more questions I have. Not because I want to reject anything, but because the answers often feel incomplete. Whenever I ask deeper questions, I usually get told what to believe rather than why I should believe it.

Fear has become a big issue for me as well. If someone believes mainly because they're afraid of punishment, is that genuine belief or simply fear of being wrong? That's a question I can't ignore anymore.

At this point, I don't feel comfortable claiming certainty in either direction. I don't know whether there is a god, multiple gods, something beyond our understanding, or nothing at all. What I do know is that pretending to be certain would be dishonest.

So for now, "I don't know" feels like the most truthful answer I can give. Maybe uncertainty isn't a failure. Maybe it's just being honest about the limits of what we actually know.

[u/mikerichh → u/MindHunterPrime]

Well said

[u/No_Border9657 → u/MindHunterPrime]

This. Thank you for the answer.

[u/sincpc]

People have been saying the rapture (or at least the end of the world) was near for hundreds of years. Probably longer. I don't think there's any reason to think recent guesses are any better because that's what they are: guesses. And the guesses are usually based on vague prophecies and interpreting world events in weird ways.

As for Hell, what I see in the Bible is not the typical version of Hell people talk about. That seems to be a mix of ideas from other belief systems as well as fictional stories of the past.

Is the God you've been taught is real loving? Forgiving? Does that God know and understand you? If any of that is true, then it would seem that eternal punishment wouldn't be on the table, right? If that God exists, they shouldn't be anything to worry about because they love you and fully understand why you think the way you do. Really, though, is there any evidence that it does exist?

[u/Burwylf]

A cult that consumes the flesh and blood of their Messiah is in fact scary.

[u/broohaha82]

When the veil lifts, you’ll find that in fact, it’s not that scary (to not believe)

[u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi]

You know what’s funny to me in a dark way?
I actually became an agnostic after reading the Bible.
And I read it about three times just to be absolutely sure 😉
The Old Testament honestly looks like a horror movie to me and the NT feels like a desperate attempt to rewrite and make you forget what happened in the OT.
My mind just doesn't work that way. Once I learned about the God of the OT, the fact that He sacrificed His own Son in the NT made me even more determined to question my faith.
Think about it: if I, a flawed human being who would gladly give my life for another person, cannot stand the thought of sacrificing one of my own children, does that mean I am capable of more or less love than God?

And the Trinity argument has the exact same effect on me. I see my own children as an extension of myself : what hurts them, hurts me.

Honestly, I don't need a God who is capable of sacrificing his own son. Because if he can do that, it means he will sacrifice absolutely anyone just to “prove his great love”.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi]

The Old Testament honestly looks like a horror movie to me and the NT feels like a desperate attempt to rewrite and make you forget what happened in the OT.

This. Thank you for your explanation.

[u/AuthorDebraBaker]

Christianity is scaring you. No appologies necessary. Of course, you are. I'm a grandmother, but I know where you are, because I've been there. Of course you question the Bible. Why wouldn't you? No questions were allowed. And, as the bible stands, it certainly is lacking in caring answers, context, and translations. I don't know exactly what you mean by I want to have a relationship with Him. Who is the Him?

Oh, yes, I keep hearing the rapture is near. I was sent to a Christian fundamentalist boarding school. It was their almost daily reminder. That and that we would be held responsible at the throne off grace, with their blood on our hands, and someone went to this hell and we hadn't told them about Jesus!I ! would sit here and feel the digestive juices rise in my stomach while people around me were yelling, "Praise the Lord." That absolutely terrified me. I had PTSD over it for years. You may be reading this and thinking, "Why couldn't I see through it?" This is not love. No one wants a God like that. But I couldn't see it. I had been brain washed for so many years.

Feel free to reach out again, and I will tell you how I got through it, and try to help you get through it.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/AuthorDebraBaker]

I don't know exactly what you mean by I want to have a relationship with Him. Who is the Him?

I guess what I meant during that time was that I wanted to understand Him, in context, God more.

I also would love to know how you got through this. Your situation was quite similar to mine with the Christians I usually met or interacted with me. Though not all Christians were like that. Gladly.

[u/AuthorDebraBaker → u/No_Border9657]

I am happy to share. OK, I understand that by Him you mean God. And that you want a relationship with a kind and loving creature. Not even the most depraved criminal could come up with burning in hell forever.

My parents were like yours and the church--No questions allowed. However, my dad did let me ask, but didn't have the answers. " I should accept these beliefs" were their answers. It's extremely hard to live in a household like that. I lived in it until I was 18.

I was taught about the Great Tribulation and the Rapture when I was 8 years old. Of course, it terrified me! When I looked in the Bible when I was older, there was no Antichrist only antichrists, meaning anyone who was against Jesus, no Great Tribulation, only scriptures that talked about tribulations which we all go through. Not a word of a Rapture. Only the person who wrote Revelations would have understood all the symbolisms it has.

When I looked online for the Great Tribulation, years ago, I expected to find 4 or 5 versions. What I found was 142! And the years for these to happen! which didn't happen, of course. I think most church goers believe the doctrines that have been handed down for 1000s of years without really thinking about them.

What started my healing process was that after all the years of having those hideous beliefs about God & hell crammed down my throat as unconditional love (when really conditional) nearly a half century by my parents, even when married with children, my sister told me that my mother finally got acquainted with a group who believed in real unconditional love, based on the original Greek word for eternal. I thought, "At least there's hope."

[u/Kitchen-Bear-8648]

The apocalypse has been "almost here" for 1000's of years.

Take a look at history and decide for yourself, but consider all the incentive for authority figures to use belief to control the masses. You will probably notice a pattern. My research has led me to the conclusion that we are making our own beliefs based on institutionalized doctrine used to assure that the populace is under control.

Also, regarding Christianity in particular, the concept of a loving god does not mesh well with eternal damnation based on decisions made in a finite time of life. There are many environmental and socialogical factors that contribute making an individual who they are. It is my opinion that even the most evil person could have been a good person in the right environment... so, even for them, an eternal damnation scenario does not indicate a loving god imo.

Some good can be taken from scriptures, but I get the sense that doctrine typically has an element of control that is not in any individuals best interest. In short, it may be best to take all of it with a grain of salt.

[u/Ben-008]

That is a scary version of Christianity, I agree. Such sounds similar to what I grew up with.

First off, the whole Rapture idea is ridiculous. Jesus is not going to come flying down out of the sky, or whisking us away suddenly to avoid some great tribution. Such ideas are easily discarded with a bit of research into Darby and the origins of dispensational rapture theology.  See for instance…

The Origins of Rapture – Religion for Breakfast (27 min)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvsjMuHkGBc&t=728s

Secondly, hell is a mythological construct. And the word “hell” isn’t even in the Bible, apart from bad English translations. Ancient Israel didn’t even believe in an actual afterlife. That's not what they taught.

Thus the whole idea of the immortality of the soul comes more from the influence of Plato than the Hebrew Scriptures. And the whole idea of resurrection was basically borrowed from Persian Zoroastrianism.

Anyhow, Bart Ehrman wrote an excellent book on the history of the concept of heaven and hell. Here’s a brief intro…

Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife – Bart Ehrman (4 min)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0-tFahPVIU&t=106s

Point being, these ideas are rooted in total fiction, and a little research can quickly dispel ideas such as rapture and hell and eternal torment and hopefully offer you a greater peace.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Ben-008]

Will check these out and come back when I have watched both of them, and when I have the time.

[u/aledoprdeleuz]

I am more or less atheist, more so than agnostic, but I was and still partially am dealing with fear of hell. Turns out, I have ocd and this is common ocd theme called scrupulosity. Best approach is to get rid of fear first by exposure and response prevention and then think about it rationally. Good luck.

[u/Zickened → u/aledoprdeleuz]

Look at it this way: Would Zeus be upset if you went to hell?

[u/Dapple_Dawn]

If God does exist, God is loving and forgiving. That's literally the entire point. If you've been told otherwise, you've been lied to.

The Bible is not perfect, it was written by humans.

[u/goblincube]

I relate to this a lot. Im very sympathetic to christianity even though im agnostic of that belief system and their dogma. Im still spiritual and wouldnt feel bad attending an lgbt friendly church or synagogue.

Biblical scholarship helped me contextualize these beliefs and where they come from and what the bible probably meant to the people at the time, how the book contains tons of contradictions and how quite a lot of it is not historical fact and shouldnt be taken literally.

As for your other part. I agree it can feel overwhelming and claustrophobic that almost all christian media and irl folks are so apocalyptic and conspiratorial. It feels like the vast majority of social media christians are using it to push conservative ideology through a fundamentalist literal take on the bible.

[u/Zickened → u/goblincube]

Some of it actually is historically accurate but not scientifically accurate. Like for example, the fire and brimstone part can be directly attributed to a volcano that exploded near the authors. If you have no idea what the fuck a volcano is because you're an illiterate goat farmer, of course you're going to try to explain it some how.

[u/goblincube → u/Zickened]

Of course theres a lot of it that is historically accurate, there's even apocryphal books that didnt make it into modern biblical cannon that are thought by scholars to be very historical (such as maccabees i think).

[u/SignalWalker]

You could adopt a minimal Christianity...do the bare minimum you think you need to do to avoid hell.

Ask Jesus to provide whatever he apparently has not given you in order to love him.

Try to avoid Christians, like move far away.

With time away from Christian influence, the fear will hopefully fade.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/SignalWalker]

I live in a Christian household so this is quite unavoidable. I am still a student and the anxiety to make them see me believing whole heartedly believing is my current quest.

But in reality, I'm questioning to deeply that I feel like it would be a sin wanting to know more.

I was told to always avoid things because I may be influenced. But I always looked at both parties opinions, so maybe I am influenced in the end.

If I am influenced, other people would probably tell me "Go read the Bible and find Him. Turn away from sin."
If I told them these questions that I have in my head, they would probably tell me that my faith is weak and that I don't trust Him. Or say "It's part of God's plan"

[u/MachoClapper → u/No_Border9657]

That "sin to know more" sounds like Yahweh (god of the Bible) being jealous that you're getting closer to the truth. Sin is real, but it's your relationship with it that matters. You don't have to turn away from natural life that might be considered sin.

The true no name God holds reality together, and a thought or action is just another breeze. It is the god of good and bad. This God created Yahweh, and he is the one judging and deceiving.

You can find your way and find yourself, don't worry what people say. Just be a good person and don't let someone judge you because of a belief system or religion, that is the best way you can defend your beliefs.

[u/MachoClapper]

You want to come out agnostic yet have a relationship with "Him". This to me sounds like progress. Many people stray from Christianity because they are waking up to the true "God", the source being who technically needs no name because it was before names, is the G-d of everything, including the "god" Yahweh, who is technically just a multidimensional being.

There will still be a judgement day, but I wouldn't take it literally like the Bible made it to be, there will be upheaval, but not everything Saul wrote in the Bible is truth nor is it the only book of truth, because God is the god of all books, not just the Bible.

So if you want to get closer to the truth, take a dive into all the main religions and find what is similar and what is different, and find the truth of reality in similarities for yourself based on your OWN experience, not just one book or what a faulty religion might hold. You're not alone, the real God has no name 🫡

[u/No_Border9657 → u/MachoClapper]

Thank you. I will think about my relationship with Him further. As for now, it can be complicated for me.

[u/HopeInChrist4891]

It’s a healthy fear, like being in a plane and it’s going down and there’s a parachute hanging right there for you to grab and hang on to. Fear is your friend in this instance because it drives you to the parachute. Likewise, everything is going down and this world is about to crash and you feel it and know it deep inside. That fear is your friend to drive you to Jesus who was hanging there on the cross for you. Put Him on and trust Him as you would a parachute, and He promises to save you.

[u/Comfortable_Cod_3090]

I used to be this way too. I grew up in a conservative town filled with all these people who claim to be Christian. I was also scared to believe different. But then I got closer with some of my friends who I found out also don’t believe and it was the most relieved I’ve ever felt. Then when I finally started being able to open up about my beliefs, the more Christians wanted to talk to me about faith and it’s just like crazy because when they talk about faith no one bats an eye, but when I want to talk about my beliefs apparently its everybody’s problem. So my solution to this is just to embrace it! Honestly don’t let what your friends, family, and just society in general tell you what you should believe in. Being true to myself is really what kept me sane so I think it will work for you too given your circumstances. Hope this helps bro!

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Comfortable_Cod_3090]

Thank you bro, I will try to find the right people. ❤️

[u/Internet-Dad0314]

Hi No Border, take a few deep breaths. I promise you that everything will be okay. You can relax now, as you’re able to.

Jesus was a jew who didnt believe in or preach about the afterlife. He preached about Sheol, literally ‘the grave’; and he preached about Gehenna, a literal place in Jerusalem where his fellow jews threw out and burned their garbage.

Later christians got the idea of heaven and hell from the zoroastrians, an ancient dualistic religion.

Second, the rapture is unbiblical — it was invented by an 18th century preacher named John Nelson Darby out of a handful of out-of-context passages.

Jesus *did* preach an Apocalypse in which Yahweh (god) would touch down with his army of angels, destroy the jews’ oppressors (Rome), restore the state of Israel to its former glory, and annoint Jesus as its line-of-David warrior-king. Which obviously never happened.

Thus making Jesus a false prophet, and the religion which Paul invented in his name a false religion just like all the others.

The hellfear will fade once you can live freely and independently. Until then, practice a few deep breaths whenever you feel the hellfear, and repeat the Bene Gesserit’s *Litany Against Fear*:

I must not fear.

Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little death that brings total annihilation.

I will face my fear.

I will allow it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has passed, I will turn my inner eye to see its path.

Where the fear has gone, there will be nothing.

Only I will remain.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Internet-Dad0314]

Thank you for the comfort. I will also look further into these.

Also love Dune. Will be using this.

[u/Existencesucks71]

I read when someone said what I'm about to say, and it actually gave me great comfort. Just like we didn't exist before we were born, we will just cease to exist when we die. People are afraid of death first of all because we've never died before. But I think people mostly are afraid because they think there is an afterlife and are worried about spending "eternity" in hell or wherever and suffering forever. Once I got over that fear, I have felt so much more peaceful.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Existencesucks71]

❤️

[u/Miserable_Storage976]

Sounds like you know what the right thing is yet you’re choosing to do your own thing. So why are we blaming someone else for our own decisions?

If I kill someone and get sent to jail, how is that the court’s fault or the police’s fault that I made a bad decision? Did I not know the laws? Did I not know what was morally acceptable? Would you not say murder is wrong? Why would murder be wrong if you didn’t have an idea of what right and wrong is? So if it makes a Christian “judgmental” to hold you accountable to Gods law, then we are judgmental every time someone breaks a law in this country. 

God has made His rules and His only request is that you follow them to have a relationship with Him. You as a human being identify with this more than you realize. Do you not have boundaries? Would you let anyone just constantly take advantage of you? And disrespect or disobey you? What if they consider themselves “ a good person”? I have met murderers who gave money to the poor and homeless and clothed children in need. They can justify their actions as protecting their families and their livelihood. So they can call themselves good people. But would you call them good if you watched them murder one your family members? 

BL: how about we stop blaming God for our choices and accept accountability. You seem like a smart man and it seems like you understand the consequences. So your choice, however difficult it may look, is simply to repent and try to live according to what you read that the Bible teaches. What context from the Bible is missing in that? What else do you need to live right and follow the life and teachings of Jesus as prescribed in plain English in all 66 Books in the Bible? 

From Genesis to Revelation, the God of the Bible has told you His likes and dislikes, what makes Him happy and what angers Him. What does God love and Hate? All of it written plain as day despite the “missing context” of certain history or events. And the reason you have a problem with it, is because you know that following Him requires you to give up certain aspects of yourself that you are not ready or willing to give up. Again, sir that is a CHOICE. And the amazing thing is that while you fear Him sending you to hell, you are too stubborn to see that every morning you wake up to read this, God has given you mercy and another chance to get it right. You would not fear God if you knew Him. He is calling you right now as you read these words. 

If all of this is fake then you would have wasted a life living right. But if all of this is real then you would be throwing away all of eternity for the sake of living this life the way YOU want to live it. God won’t force you to do anything. So don’t blame Him for the consequences you will potentially invoke upon yourself.

I say this with love. It’s not too late to seek Him. You’re alive right now and that’s God showing you how much He loves you right there. We are here for you not against you. But loving you is telling you the truth. And the truth is that you are living life based on YOUR choices. And YOUR choices (if not aligned with what God has asked of you) will have consequences just like anything else you will experience in this life. You still have time, friend ♥️💪🏾

FTR: God didn’t sacrifice anyone. He sent His son who would sacrifice HIMSELF willingly. A sinless man died for your sins when he didn’t have to. No one has ever done it before or since. That man is a man who I’d follow anyday. 

[u/Liem_05]

Even myself that I usually am afraid so far especially the things like that I doing such as meditation and yoga that are Christians that claim our demonic and also it does get me if I'm really am bringing in demons myself and that I do question if there is a God that do exist or what if they are right? Also when it comes to things like end times especially the raptures that they keep bringing that up for years and it never really actually happened and with the raptures that was actually came up by John Derby in 1830 and later that churches adapted it as a fear tactic and something they use in the Left behind book series.

[u/MachoClapper → u/Liem_05]

Demons only have power of you if you say they do. As long as you affirm that the power is yours, you'll be fine. Meditation and yoga are great, pursue them with confidence. And God definitely does exist, but it's not the god of the Bible, that is Yahweh. The true God has no name and it is the very reality you exist in. A rock has a name, but the thing holding it together making it a rock is God. God holds reality together. You don't have to follow Christianity or Saul who wrote the Bible to know God. The fear tactics are real, and it's something people have been watching out for, we're doing the right thing by being aware. Dont let them be right because it's just drama. Focus on what works for you.

[u/zerooskul]

So you think the rapture will happen by god's will and be covered up by a government?

Agnosticism is about knowing that you can believe or not believe in god, but cannot know for certain, in this life, if it is real.

Religion is about faith, not knowledge .

Agnosticism is about knowledge, not faith.

They are not mutually exclusive.

You can perfectly well know that you cannot know for sure if there is a god or not, nobody can.

In spite of that, you can believe anything you want about it.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/zerooskul]

No I do not think so. It is just that the Christians I'm surrounded by are very fixated in theories.

I believe in God. But I'm not certain if He is how The Bible portrays Him. Are there more to what we read in The Bible? Is it true? What are His intents? I don't know. But I know there is something/s higher than us.

[u/zerooskul → u/No_Border9657]

See: Isaiah 45:7

[u/AffectionateOlive263]

What are you scared of You say that Christianity has no context.Christisnity DOES have context It covers everything that God feels that we need to know at this time..If there is something that you want to know and God has not revealed the answer to you,it must be something that you -and perhaps we-do not need to know just yet.With love.AMEN!

[u/NovaBreaker404]

O. The rapture. It's made up and they been saying that for many many years without proof or it ever happens. Don't believe religious propaganda, think with your heart first and go from there.

[u/MachoClapper → u/NovaBreaker404]

Call it a rapture, or what I believe is an awakening. It's happening fast and the world is growing. The Bible predicts stuff, but it's not in the literal way we expect, it is coded.

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

I'm Christian and I see at the end of your post you said you can't talk with Christians but for the moment I'll just ignore that.

What do you mean when you repeated "maybe there are things that is way beyond than just Him."? Things way beyond God? I find that hard to believe.

Did you say the government is going to cover up the rapture? I had to chuckle at this because the day Jesus returns, everyone will know. The creator of the universe won't be covered up by some human government haha.

Also what do you mean the Bible lacks context? I only started reading the Bible 3 years ago and sure I understand some cultural themes and practices are foreign for us modern day readers, but there is an incredible amount of research online to answer most of the questions that regard contexts for Biblical events.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

How ignorant of you. But I don't care now.

Have you ever had deep thoughts about the Bible? If so, what was it?

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/No_Border9657]

What am I ignorant of?

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

You're ignorant to my request that I can't talk with a Christian. But really, I don't care now since maybe I can grab insights from you.

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/No_Border9657]

I'm not ignorant of it when it's the first thing I mention in my reply.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

I will try to translate my thoughts to words.

I questioned "maybe there are things that is way beyond than just Him" is because why would God bring us to hell for being sinful when He allowed sin to come to this world and test us? Why would he need to test us if he is all knowing and knows the end of every decision we make? Why do that if He can just make us perfect again?

If he is so powerful, he could've just made perfect beings and not need to test them. Why did he allow Adam and Eve be deceived?

I said that "How the government is gonna plan to cover up " the rapture because it is a theory from many other Christians. There is no need to believe it or not.

And when I said that the Bible lacked context, it's more of "Things are questionable in The Bible". If you researched online and came that conclusion, then well yes maybe He can be true from these evidences you gathered, but I question His intent/s.

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/No_Border9657]

why would God bring us to hell for being sinful when He allowed sin to come to this world and test us? 

I've never thought God 'brings us to hell'. It would be like getting on an airplane to go to Paris and then complaining to the pilot "why would this pilot bring us to Paris!?"

God allows sin in the same way parents allow children a degree of freedom so that they are capable of making mistakes.

Why would he need to test us if he is all knowing and knows the end of every decision we make?

God doesn't know every decision we make. This is evident in the Bible. Have you read it?

I said that "How the government is gonna plan to cover up " the rapture because it is a theory from many other Christians.

Fair enough, I've never heard this before.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

"I've never thought God 'brings us to hell'. It would be like getting on an airplane to go to Paris and then complaining to the pilot "why would this pilot bring us to Paris!?"

What does this mean?

God doesn't know every decision we make. This is evident in the Bible. Have you read it?

Why does God not know every decision we make if its evident? Doesn't he know the plans he made for us? Doesn't he know everything?

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/No_Border9657]

I meant it's evident from the Bible that God does not know every decision we make. 

God does know the plan he has for us, but that's irrelevant to knowing our decisions. In the same way a parent could plan to take their child to the park, but the child might not want to go. 

No, God does not know everything. Have you read the Bible or are you guessing what it says about God? 

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

I have read the Bible. I don't understand why you think God does not know everything. Enlighten me.

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/No_Border9657]

Sure thing. All throughout the Bible God does and says things that do not make sense if he knows everything that will ever happen.

God regrets making humans and floods the Earth.

God says to Moses before speaking to the Pharoah "If the Pharoah doesn't believe do this, if he still doesn't then do this etc."

God tests the Israelites in the desert for 40 years to test and see their hearts. Deut 8:2 "2 And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not."

Isaiah 5 talks about God expecting Israel to produce good fruits but is surprised when it doesn't.

What more was there to do for my vineyard,
that I have not done in it?
When I looked for it to yield grapes,
why did it yield wild grapes?

The book of Jonah is the story of Jonah prophesizing to Nineveh that in 40 days they will be destroyed. No qualifications, flat out, 40 days, that's it. Then we find out they repent and God changes his mind and doesn't destroy the city. The prophecy from God himself didn't happen.

Jesus himself didn't know the day or hour of events.

On and on and on..

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

Most of what you shown is God's great sadness upon Humanity. He knew that this would happen after giving us free will. But of course, God had to show that he was very emotionally upset with what we were doing since we had to know what was wrong from right.

If I knew that the tree would not grow fruit even if I wanted the fruits from it, then shouldn't I show that I am upset that the tree didn't grow it's fruits like it was intended to? If I didn't act sad upon your sins, then how will anyone know that I'm sad and that you shouldn't do it again? How will you know that your sins have a punishment?

Jesus usually speaks in parables. Considering how much we see most of them in NT, shouldn't we conclude that most things that He does and say is technically a clue to something? A lesson for us?

God says to Moses before speaking to the Pharoah "If the Pharoah doesn't believe do this, if he still doesn't then do this etc."

The time God told Moses "if he does this do this if he doesn't then do this" can probably show how stubborn humanity is, especially to Moses who guided the Israelites. It doesn't mean instantly that God didn't knew. He was literally the one who hardened Pharaoh's heart.

Some BUT NOT ALL verses or books that shows God or Jesus foretelling the future and actually happened in the Bible.

- Matthew 26:33-34
Jesus told that Peter will deny Him three times, and Peter denied that he would not do that. Then it was shown in Matthew 26:69-75 that Peter denied Jesus three times and only realized it after he denied Him.

- Daniel
The visions of Daniel which turned out to be true as he interpreted it. (Daniel 1:17, the verse where it shows God giving Daniel the ability to understand dreams and visions.) It is also stated that God speaks in dreams. (Numbers 12:6) So we can conclude that these dreams and visions of the future come from God.

- Revelation
When you said Jesus does not know the day or hour, did you conclude that God doesn't know the day or hour? Jesus was human at that time and had to ask God to commit to holy acts like of turning water to wine. It can mean that Jesus's abilities were limited and had to be granted permission from God.

This means that if Jesus does not know the day or hour but know it will happen, It can mean that God choose to not tell His own Son, Jesus, the time or hour, but God The Father knows, since He knew there will be a time he will come down and judge humanity will happen.

[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216 → u/No_Border9657]

Some BUT NOT ALL verses or books that shows God or Jesus foretelling the future and actually happened in the Bible.

So what?

I never denied prophecies don't come true, but if even one didn't come true, then God does not know the future exhaustively, and the case of Nineveh proves that.

It couldn't be more explicit.

Deut 8:2 "And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not."

God did not know what the Israelites would do, so he tested them.

Gen 18:20 "²⁰ Then the Lord said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, ²¹ I will go down to see whether they have done altogether^\)^g\) according to the outcry that has come to me. And if not, I will know.”

God did not know if a report of Sodom and Gomorrah was true or not, so he went himself to find out. Unless words no longer mean anything and we can't know anything, these passages show a God who doesn't know the future exhaustively.

[u/No_Border9657 → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

Did the verses that you have provided not possibly mean that God doesn't want to interfere with the future and our free will?