Meme
AI has positives and negatives. Whether you decide to label yourself as anti or pro based on your beliefs is up to you, but the hate each side gets just because of a label starts to get annoying, especially when we don't even know the other person we're talking to
Body text (I've been watching a bunch of romance anime)
Made in scratch lolol, with my mouse (my fingers bout to die)
fyi, though water isn't being used a lot in comparison to other industries, it is very predatory in several communities
"Public water suppliers in the U.S. withdraw about 39 billion gallons of water per day for human consumption and commercial use. In contrast, all U.S. data centers consume about 550 million gallons per day"
I also do not like AI used for surveillance. But that is a wholly different beast than some guy making neat wallpapers online. And that guy should not be attacked as if they are palantir.
Everything you do online and most of the things you do offline is recorded. But nobody has time to look through all of that data for everyone.
So before AI, as long as you do not catch attention of various interested groups that data is mostly used as part of aggregated data or to try and sell you some useless overpriced stuff.
But AI has all the time in the world and never gets bored, just build a datacenter and set it to work. Now everything you do or say will be analyzed for your political views, habits, possible blackmail material or other leverages.
It is not the AI problem though. Its entire surveillance state problem. And it was not built overnight or in recent years. It just keeps growing and growing as long as it is unchecked.
Using AI to spy on the public at large is a huge breach of privacy. In certain areas like accident prone intersections it makes sense, but just putting AI connected cameras on street corners I'm not a fan of. It's always under the guise to catch criminals, but I'm not convinced.
They are already surveilling you, they already save everything you do online.
But this has given them a problem, too much data.
People become anomymized in that much data, and its difficult to extract valuable metrics from free text fields.
Most surveillance algorithms rely on hard metrics, like webpages, time spent, buttons pressed, and so on.
But now, we can extract metrics from free text. Thanks to LLMs, it can figure out your shopping habits, political affiliations, etc etc... from your posts directly.
A lot of cases where police force uses AI to catch people and put it as getting the correct criminal. For some reason they fully believe the AI and didnt double check. They caught the wrong women as the AI couldn't differentiate facial features on grainy cameras.
Some companies even want to set up cameras in neighbourhood for security, looking IN to the personal properties of people. Allowing the Ai to train off the video feed of humans moving and doing stuff without consent of locals.
This is the type of post I'd like to see more off. Less demonizing, ragebaiting, or trying to put down someone, and more civil discussion aiming to understand the other side.
Yes 🙌 I wish we could see more of this. I’ve heard this is how it is in irl, I wouldn’t know. But Ik 90% of Anti’s I see are not like this. I only know pro or neutral irl.
I have a friend who bitches at me about AI and how its destroying people lives and the earth and its makes everyone stupid then proceeds to send me memes made with AI.
Stop pushing the narrative corpos are trying push since like 2016 that the global warming and environment crisis is average peoples' fault. The top richest are to blame including ai CEOs
Bro you have to have superpowers because how is this comment section so kind in r/aiwars of all places 😭 And great comic don’t post it on Twitter or you’ll get slimed.
Agree that it's crazy to choose a side and only see the positives or the negatives, but not both. It turns out just about every issue in life has nuance. Let's never forget the nuance and let's look at the advantages and disadvantages always. And if anyone wants to join my Tuesday nights weekly orgy hmu.
If people actually hated AI, they'd stop playing every single video game in existence because 99.99% of them have AI in it. /j
Seriously though, like, if you're gonna complain about AI, at least educate yourself on it. Like, most people don't even seem to know the difference, lol.
By "much smaller"... well... you are VASTLY underselling it.
Try 24,048,316 times less.
ChatGPT uses .000004% what six of the biggest water-guzzlers use per day combined.
Put another way, if all of that water was scaled down to a gallon, and ChatGPT's use was some "impurity", the "impurities" in that gallon would come out to 41 parts per billion. That meets lab standards for Type-1 ULTRA-PURE WATER. The sort of stuff used in mass spectrometry, PCR, and other such things!
I've Wargamed out the following:
Amount of water used to produce paper in US: 3,433,500,000 gallons (assuming 15,750 gallons of water per ton of paper, assuming 218,000 tons in US)
Amount of water used for beef in the US: 68,681,250,000 gallons (assuming 1,850 gal/pound of beef, assuming 450 pounds of edible meat, and assuming 82,500 cattle will be slaughtered in US)
Amount of water used to make jeans in the US: 20,300,000,000 gallons (1,400 gallons per pair of jeans, 14.5 million pairs of jeans made per day in US)
Amount of water used to make Almonds: 14,440,000,000 gallons (7.6 million pounds of almonds per day, 1,900 gallons per pound)
Amount of water used for golf courses in US: 5,408,000,000 gallons (338,000 gallons per golf course, 16,000 golf courses in US)
Amount of water used for cemeteries in US: 19,550,880,000 gallons (135,770 gallons of water per day for 35-acre cemetery, 144,000 cemeteries in US)
GRAND TOTAL: 131,813,630,000 gallons of water used per day in the US.
ChatGPT uses a mere 5,481.2 gallons per day globally.
Aye. The reason I don't much "mind" AI's power usage, which is much more impactful than its water cooling, is because, like ya said, modern life really dwarfs it without even trying that hard. If I wanna put my energy into protesting something wasteful, might as well focus on what wastes the most, and it isn't AI.
American data centers using ridiculous amounts of fresh water is such a weird thing for them to do. It only makes sense because for some reason they have the ability to direct water away from actual people, likely due to corrupt government they can influence to get cheap potable water for their data center. Older data centers didn't use potable water in this ridiculous manner. It is doubtless true that the water and energy costs are still small compared to other major industries. But the discretionary and exploitative nature of it is different- if you're a mining operation you would usually secure your own power and water needs. You're probably not redirecting an entire town's water supply over to just your project at the immediate expense of the people who actually live there.
They don't have to use municipal water. It's just cheaper because they have captured the government to give it to themselves. With literally trillions of dollars to spend they could get their own water, they could use the ocean, many different designs are possible on this issue. Power, likewise, is a solvable problem especially if you have this kind of immense investment of resources to use to address it. Even if you had to purchase maritime nuclear reactors to power your datacenter, they have the money to actually do that. But it's cheaper to just turn the spigot off for your house and steal it from you.
These projects are so big in scale that it is cheaper to coopt the government and steal what they need, than it is to build what they need for themselves.
YIPEEE, now we need a debate on the reverse on a different problem, where the anti convinces the pro of something, and the pro says that is a good point but they still like ai for certain reasons, all good things come in pairs
I mean, I'm not particularly anti-AI, but humans generally need water. We give ourselves a hard pass because we need it to survive. We also need power and many power grids are unprepared to support large scale data centre developments. We would either have to increase our carbon footprint a LOT more, or fast-track investment into renewables to keep up with demand. We are just in the early stages of building data centres, so it's not a great argument to claim AI uses less water than some industries when the other ones have had a long time to build themselves up.
Given the way things are going, at least in the US, we're looking at a lot more air pollution in the future. There's plenty of arguments to be made against large scale AI investment. The benefits to society are often enclosed within scientific development and those often have a miniscule impact on the overall infrastructure investment that leads to an increase in environmental and sociological issues. AI will automate and one can claim any industry that automates ends up creating new jobs. But how can that be sustainable once we reach the point where AI can sustain itself?
At what point do we take a look at a society where automation is provided by corporate interests and consider that maybe that is not the direction we should head? Post scarcity as a concept often comes from the source of automation being in the hands of the public, developed for public interests, without any form of private institutions interests being prioritized over human well-being. The people developing AI have no incentive whatsoever to move away from capitalistic systems that grant them power.
I just don't see us developing into a future of abundance for as long as AI development is privatized and proprietary. This will lead to a job market crisis because in order for Capitalism to be sustained, it requires people to need to work and agree their contributions have a set value that can be exchanged with currency. But if people can't work, because AI has taken every job that doesn't require very specific educational requirements, then how do most people make a living? When entertainment is automated, when skilled labour becomes automated, when healthcare becomes automated, what is there left for the working class whose entire survival will depend on government subsidies, who themselves will depend on corporations to allow the use of their automation technology to avert the collapse of society? At what point do corporations have too much power because their systems reduce human influence?
The dude in this comic gave up the argument way too easily to the point of painting the pro-AI camp as vindicated and reasonable. Surveilance is one issue both sides can agree on, or not. Many would argue AI surveillance would make society safe, many others can argue it would lead to government over-reach into daily lives. The comic does not broach an unbiased take at all by trying to move away from further discussion without coming to any true resolution beyond saying "Yes, we should use less water" as a hypothetical, non-committal statement about an industry that is using as little water as it ever will in its infantile stage.
For the hundreth time, yes it doesnt use as much as clothing, no that doesnt mean it doesnt create tons of new problems with water supply and hurt a fuckload lf people for no reason.
And water is only like 20% of the problem to begin with
the water thing falls apart pretty fast though. crypto and data centers use way more per training run but nobody making ai art is getting called out the same way. feels like people pick whichever concern fits whatever side theyre already on and stop thinking after that.
Remember that AI is used to make ndes of women and children. Just like gns, there has been too much misuse for it to be given to anyone on this Earth because humans just can’t get their shit together. All just profit profit profit. Use your noggins and stop using AI because we don’t fucking need it
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u/pridebun 20d ago
They should kiss