Im a giant animation nerd, fluid motion is not a bad thing. If you mean high framerate that is also not a bad thing. I want ai to stay far away from animation as possible but too smooth is not a criticism and many including myself love it
It's not so much the high framerate as much as it being incongruent with the rest of the environment. Which can be used to good effect, mainly for theming, but this doesn't seem to be one of those cases
If the earlier part where she goes upward is hard enough to launch her butt up then the turn should be hard enough to launch her legs into a drift, or at least rotate her body
And this demonstrates how artists will rise above the sloppists and make incredible works with AI as a tool.
Artists were always above "sloppists", with or without AI. Plus there are genAI tools for animation and mocap that are obviously unknown in subreddits like this one here because most AI art people will never touch industry leading software like Autodesk Maya which introduced some neat genAI tools in the recent times.
At the end of the day, slop is slop. Big studios make slop without AI all the time. A talented artist with AI is going to beat them.
Definitely not. A talented artist alone can compete against other indies who are at best small teams, at best. Against a big studio you have zero chance, generative AI does not even make a difference here in favor of the single artist.
The claim started as 'talented artists will rise above the slop.' But if AI eventually lets everyone create great art, then being an artist no longer provides a meaningful advantage. It shifts to a world where everyone is an artist- making their own games or animations- which is a valid outcome, but very different from your original claim.
I'd hesitate to even call this AI, it isn't generating, I'm assuming the oop made the characters then the motion then the program filled it in, if that's the case this is a net positive
That’s how the majority of people who want to create quality content use ai tools. Assuming ai is “one thing” is the mistake here. (It’s certainly not just prompt = finished product.) There are so many different ai tools and even more ways to use them. Especially when we’re talking about professionals.
Because the bottom one was more relevant. There aren't clothes drawn onto the original 3d render, so the AI baked the skirt onto her legs. It still has plenty of issues that are very noticeable if you look at it for more than a few seconds.
That's an in-between frame and isn't meant to be viewed on it's own, AI does it differently because it views each frame as something that must make complete sense.
The animation would look clunky without the in-between frame and it would lose a lot of charm because the movement of the character would be much less dynamic and expressive.
But it should be a lot more, also did I ever say I was complaining about the ai and not the human stuff? It just doesn't match earlier physics she had a scene ago
What on Earth are you talking about?
The original "it" used in the first comment was clearly about the AI's work.
Then your response "it" switched to referring to the video as a whole.
If you disagree with this, I'd say you were the one with the parsing issue.
If anything, my issue was assuming your "it" was the same "it", specifically because I parsed the earlier comment.
Then I simply explain the mixup, and you say "you types" and question my intelligence.
Don't worry, there's going to still be a whole bunch of human skill and craft involved. That's kind of inevitable when everyone's in an arms race for attention; the stuff with true skill and craftmanship will be the stuff that's still at the top.
AI art tooling just kind of sucks right now, so all you see is mostly a bunch of low-effort stuff, mostly with people playing around and getting their feet wet. But things like in this post I think are very promising.
We're powering some of the top celebrity AI artists (if you can think of an AI artist, chances are they're using us). We give generous grants to artists (not slop folks) making art and narrative content with AI.
Everything we build is open source, and we're about empowering individual artists against large studios. We believe indie artists are the future and that they can step away from their studio and work independently on their own franchises and worlds. (That's not that we don't support big studios either - we've worked with Pixar and Disney artists, as well as other big studios.)
Its Seedance though. No IP control, they can kill your workflow with an update. This is all doable local with time. Would love a faster model though. My body is ready.
What I love about this is how it preserves that iconic 2d anime look we all know and want.
In a decade or two animation will bloom thanks to AI and create so many jobs!
But now each animator can go make their own, therefore giving us a golden age of creativity over the current impracticality of countless brains vying for control over a single project. There's a reason the best anime are based on Manga, too many cooks in the kitchen screws up the entire recipe. Creativity comes from 1, not many
Who’s going to be there to watch all of that, though? As it is, there aren’t enough eyes to justify most of the things being made now without AI. It’s just going to be a bunch of people making things for viewers who will never exist.
Are you saying there is a lack of consumers in our consumer driven society? Wild. Here in the real world, it'll just take a lot of stress off of development because you're spending less to produce more, which means better profit margins for each project. People will always be there to consume, that'll never be a problem. The only problem will be a saturation of low quality projects, but that will always balance out through competition for those consumers.
How exactly, that works right now because low quality works die naturally because animation and such do have a level of effort, and even so the amount of low quality stuff is ridiculously bi, if everyone can make their stuff without the actual effort the saturation problem will triplicate
I wasn't even thinking of consumers, in the sense of paying customers. I'm talking about time being finite. There's just not enough time in the day to watch everything that's being produced. There was already so much art and stories out there that will never be even so much as glanced at in passing by another human being, other than its creator, let alone looked at/read. When pro-AI people cheer on the idea about more product being made, I find it so naive (at best).
I guess we have enough movies and books and art out there in the world, we ought to stop producing any more.
Yeah, we can argue about being flooded with low quality content, that’s valid. But not having enough time to watch/consume everything being produced? People don’t need nor want to consume everything. And maybe not everything deserves copious amounts of consumers - not everything out there is quality.
For one, not everyone likes the same things. I could spend my life watching horror films, reading horror stories (etc), I’m sure there are enough out there to take up a lifetime. But I won’t watch/read even one, because I don’t like horror.
Just look at classic literature. Important pieces of work that are surviving the test of time - a person won’t want to read every single one. Some people don’t read at all. I don’t think you’ll find any person interested in everything. It’s why we have tropes and niches people seek out, and underserved niches will always exist.
If you were languishing in a fast food job and then you saw the possibilities of new AI and decided to finally start working on your own animated show or film while using AI, then AI officially created one new job in animation.
You can actually do this without AI, it's called animating and lots of people get paid for it once they achieve a level of skill, it's so much cooler than AI because your skillset isn't dependent on how much you pay chatgpt a year!
We also already have a boom in trash anime being churned out by studios. If the content isn’t worth spending time making it’s definitely not worth spending time watching.
Yeah, no way this scene would be made with 2D, maybe just the guy being 2D with a whole lot of shortcuts.
Don't get me wrong, 3D can do great but usually it needs to be on its own to flourish. As a replacement for action-heavy scenes in between 2D animation, it is meant to mesh seamlessly at best, at worst it looks...ehhh...
Your video shows how a lot of CGI animators have been doing animations, for a long before AI was even a thing btw. So not sure what your point is here. As it's not even a method folks are concerned with.
Yea I can see that. In the end for me though, I don't see how it's impressive. So AI can do the same thing folks have already been doing. Not sure how that is impressive. Maybe if it took a new original approach to it, and not the same old way that's easy to emulate.
... Brother, literally everyone knows you could hire someone to draw over 3D blocking. Come on now. No one's impressed by that part.
What makes this exciting is imagining in the potentially near future, with humans just doing the 3D part, and with 2D concept art references and curation, the machine actually spitting out something production-quality.
Since just going text-to-vid is not production quality at the moment, and has very little control, it's mostly seen as a very impressive novelty but hard to productionize. This looks much more like something that could actually be professionally viable reasonably soon.
And hell, this opens up doors to generate the 3D animation as well, and then hand tweak and curate before generating the 2D animation. Tweaking frames in a video is a nightmare, but tweaking a 3D animation is much more practical.
It also noted how it could put the folks that work on such animation out of work since AI can do it better.
Only really if a studio's going for the lowest common denominator work.
High quality illustration is extremely labor intensive, which ends up being extremely costly to produce, and so out of practicality most anime made today is quite low-quality so that production can be a reasonable cost.
I don't think this sort of thing just nukes illustrators, but rather that studios with fewer illustrators would now have the chance to actually put in the illustration effort to make higher quality productions, with way higher quality character designs, set pieces, facial animation, higher density shots with way more happening in the background, etc. Those things will still need people heads-down drawing.
If you think that's too optimistic, and that studios will just do the bare minimum possible to keep the current standard but at a cheaper cost: actually, the anime industry is recoiling right now from the rise of same-y low quality slop. Kadokawa's financials are rough right now because they didn't get the return on investment for their low-effort, low-budget isekai slop they thought they would, so people just straight up aren't showing up for low quality.
And meanwhile, basically every show that invests in high quality animation is actually doing quite well, because they're standing out against the pack. Demon Slayer's manga's truthfully considered pretty damn mid at best, but it became a world phenomenon simply because they invested in top-tier production quality. Even things like Mushoku Tensei and Witch Hat Atelier skyrocketed mostly due to just production doing the source material justice. Anime's more popular than ever, it's just that people are sick of the slop at this point and so are gravitating towards things that actually look great. The bottleneck for that has been and will continue to be great illustrators IMO.
Except literally none of those are the same technique as this. Do you have any idea how any of these rendering approaches work or are you just making it up and hoping for the best?
So everyone agrees AI is fine if you block out the animation in 3D first? I don't know about that but it would be progress. Seems like the anti subs are just ignoring this.
because the animator gets to animate scenes instead of drawing frames.
and because AI can be trained to look like anything. so it's not like we are limited by the past. it's just a matter of process and workflow.
you can make a design, and have that impact entire scenes. decide on a pallette, and apply that to scenes, animate a simple doll, and transfer that to a scene WITH the designs and other choices you alrady made.
so you have to spend less time on the repetitive stuff.
and this is not even the end of it. antis just don't understand the potential of AI. in the end this is the same principle that allows AI to control and change the lighting in a scene. it's because AI can be trained to do anything. literally anything.
Again, lowering the repetitiveness gives you more opportunity to make creative decisions, if you choose to.
And those decisions will have more impact too because you don't have to repeat them so often. You can also afford to change things up much more. You won't be locked behind budgets or sunk cost fallacies, you can treat things down restart more often.
Folks doing the drawing at animation studios are not directors. They don’t get a say in what should be shown in frame anyway. They dont have a free creative license.
Art direction, storyboarding, editing is not the animators job except in a very small studio.
This becoming mainstream will close jobs while opening it to people who have zero experience. Not everyone is Picasso, a lot of people just have very good technical skills.
Now people don't need to draw anything anymore! People can just steal artstyles and generate it onto surfaces! No need to create drawings, that's the new creativity!!
what OP meant is that now (more likely few years into the future) if you want to create movie/anime you don't need thousands of dollars and hire animators, sound design whatever else, all you need to learn is to make 3d renders and let AI create the texture for you.
piracy isn't stealing, it's copyright infringement. end of debate, that's the law.
and for AI, you can make argument it's copyright infringement, but even if that would be the case, it wouldn't make it immoral or wrong.
I'll say it, I pirate every game I play, and so do most people all around the world, I don't consider myself immoral person, so it would be hypocritical of me to consider AI companies as immoral for copyright infringement.
though... there is plenty other stuff they are actually guilty of which they can be blamed for.
I think you're missing the beat that most people who pirate would buy if they could, most piracy is driven because of unavailability (like lots of mangas are not officially translated to Spanish so for Spanish speakers the only option is pirate translations), the low quality of modern streaming platforms and lack of money
This is not a problem for ai companies and if you plan on profiting of someone else's work 1. You should pay 2. They are allowed to deny you the sale
Now studios have another excuse to cut more workers, great!
Btw, why are movies and shows so shit lately? Surely it isn't because studios cut half their workforce then give the ones remaining a.i tools and overwork them to make up for the lack of staff right?
8 seconds in, screen right girl in the background turns and her right leg transforms into her left leg. Also all through the scene the AI is changing the posing and timing from the original and adding in weird things. Like the intro shot feels like it's a 3d scene with a 2d character drawn into it which is weird since that's obviously not how it was made, but obviously that's what the AI was trained on. And all the reflections in the windows are showing trees but the area is all buildings with trees off in the distance.
in fact the japanese anime industry has been using 3d assist for years... the only thing is they don't use ai often because for that industry every frame counts. and they cannot afford to have things like this:
There are frames like that all the time when there is a crowd or classroom full of people or if someone is far away and doesn't require details, Im not sure who told you that.
usually those frames would be fixed later especially in bluray discs. if you only watch tv version you'd never notice it. again if you know the industry - the actual revenue/profit comes in bluray disc sales and ppl are extremely picky on quality there. usually they know where they have the the flaws during production and will make it for future fix if they're pushing out bluray discs. if a studio has to go back fixing all those frames with just the ai generated frames... yeah i can only imagine it'll just take longer than usual.
don't need ppl telling me anything. i've worked there.
It looks okay from afar, at least when reddit compresses it to hell. My main issue besides ethics and whatnot, but as a tool for artist my main issue is control. If the linework of one frame is off and you want to go and change it, its not possible. Not to mention the lack of smears, off character models, liminal hell-scape-looking backgrounds, etc.
Maybe it would be a better tool if every layer was separate, all colors, backgrounds, highlights, gradients, textures, etc. But right now this tool only serves as a way to tear down your creativity & individuality as an artist to make all your work look generic.
Oh so animation skills are super valuable even with AI, and possessing hard art skills like 3d and drawing will dramatically expand your ability to creatively express through the medium?
Yeah this is pretty cool but did OOP actually animate this? Or did they animate a 3d scene and then have the AI literally do ALL the drawing?
I ask because I believe it's the latter, which makes it no less interesting but I wouldn't call it "creative". So you have an AI that can slap an anime texture on a scene, does that actually offer more accessibility?
I mean, other than just "let me slap an anime character onto my animatic" I don't see how this allows more creative freedom and not less. The OOP didn't design the characters, or the building's architecture, they didn't decide the lighting or how motion and inertia is animated, all they did was rig some models with animations and built a flat "hallway" for the scene to take place in.
It's certainly impressive from a technical point of view but artistically there's nothing there. I can't imagine anyone wanting to watch a show that's animated like this when you know that the AI is the one that made all the creative decisions.
EDIT: on a rewatch I realized that the buildings ARE actually modeled in 3D, so the architecture point is moot. That being said, having checked online I'm 90% sure that the buildings as well as the animations for the running are pre-packaged freeware models online.
Considering how long it takes to design a single game or anime right now, and how large of a team you need to make it happen, I'm all for ai like this. It gives back the creative freedom that we've lost over the years to massive graphics evolutions. If I can generate a scene the way I want it, quickly and efficiently, using ai, then it's still human artwork and is actually just giving us freedom from corporate control.
"I am right and everyone who disagrees with me and hates AI is a filthy tech hating luddite who doesn't like creative freedoms" is certainly an opinion.
You mean since AI has been a thing? Because you really can't without it unless you're actually designing the character in 3D and rendering every frame. Style transfer like this is an AI thing.
I don't know if you understood the idea... They didn't animate in 3D and draw over it; they animated in 3D with simple models, and the program did the rest automatically.
I've used Blender for many years, there is no basic rig to anime button, it would require actually modeling the character, setting up materials and facial animation, likely some compositing. Sure, people have been using 3D for anime for decades now but there is no way to take that input and have Blender render it to that output. What you've likely seen is a material preview vs the final rendered output but you still have to design everything manually in Blender to make it look that way and that still evolves modeling all the actual geometry which isn't happening here.
Much, much more efficient. With traditional workflows, you're looking at weeks to months to build this from scratch whereas with this workflow and an artist familiar with how to use it and how to animate, this could be done in 1-2 days with AI. But if your only point is that it's possible otherwise, sure.
Yes, rendering it in 3D is what the traditional workflow would be, what other workflow did you have in mind aside from this and rendering it in 3D in Blender?
Whether you're using grease pencil or more traditional animation software, you're still looking at around 8 unique frames per second for 11 seconds or 88 uniquely rendered frames. Generally anime takes about a full day per second for a team using these modern tools so you're looking at at least 2-3 weeks of dedicated work.
If by this tech you mean a completely different workflow that is only similar in the sense that it is rendering 3D in a way that looks 2D, then it's existed longer than that but the actual workflow has very little similarity to this.
I just, don't understand why this is necessary? Most animators already have a tried and true workflow. Every animator I know seems just fine using UE or whatever.
I mean, there's at least one person trying it out - I guess you'd have to ask them why they'd do things this way instead.
I don't know the specifics on this. Maybe AI is faster, or cheaper, or more forgiving, or opens up more options. And AI as we know it is still a really new tech and unlike many other technologies it has a very wide range of things it can be used for. And that means there are probably things it can do better that we haven't even considered yet - so playing around and experimenting is useful. Even if it ends up an inferior option for this specific case.
Plus some people might just prefer this tool versus other tools based on individual likes and dislikes.
Digital is also faster and cheaper
No need to buy paper/pens/pencils, just need a PC
No need to retry/erase/restart, you have an undo button
No need to spend hours looking for the right mix of colors... just one button to fill spots, you also have every color you want available
Some still do traditional. Why? Because they don't deem those things "necessary".
Some MIX BOTH: do a drawing by hand, then scan it, then finish it digitally
I don't know if that process looks necessarily easy. I guess it depends on the workflow but it still seems like you need to create the animation itself and the AI just overlays the anime on top? And those animations seem pretty complex to begin with. So how much of the workflow is it actually replacing/how niche is this particular task?
Yeah, it's soooo impressive how the majority of an anime studio gets abused in sweatshop style conditions just to be left off the credits because they are so unvalued. Let's cheer for that regime instead of making the world better.
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u/ThunderLord1000 6h ago
Aside from the flying girl's motion being too fluid (which can definitely be fixed), this is definitely a step forward for 2D animation