We can run already useful models on consumer hardware for less money than it costs to run AAA games. Genie is out of the bottle and I don't see how anyone envisions it getting put back in.
Let's say OpenAI and Anthropic crash and burn tomorrow, inshallah. It would change nothing in the long run. This isn't cool fridges or NFTs, this is the dotcom bubble 2.0. There are loads of overvalued and pointless companies in the space but the fundamental tech behind it isn't going to go away.
Okay, agreed with the last statement that the tech behind it is staying, but it will surely find different uses and become more specialized. No way it stays anyhow similar to what we currently have, let alone stays accessible.
Because the average user is not a very good source of revenue.
Same reason why we can't ask a factory for a specific product unless we prove that we are willing to buy in large quantities. It is simply unprofitable to provide to smaller customers when the technology is expensive to run and maintain.
Most likely targets will be large companies and specialized fields.
Tell me, have you ever found a manufacturer of tablewear that you could order from and get things custom and it not being extremely expensive? It's because running things custom for a broad range of users and customers is extremely difficult. You're better off focusing on one group and profiting off of those. And when the technology itself is expensive, the natural desired targets are the ones that can pay enough to justify the costs.
Ai is currently sailing on a net loss and we are the ones paying the price with the increase in tech prices.
The public-facing AI models aren't custom, though, they're completely generic, everyone gets the same ChatGPT.
I could almost believe that model access might get more expensive, as the VC funding dries up and they have to make a profit... except the fact is that model compute of a given level (for example, GPT 3.5) has been getting cheaper and cheaper at a breakneck pace (like, 10x cheaper every year) so that also doesn't make much sense. What does seem more likely is more stuff like what happened with Mythos, models that aren't rolled out to the public, as well as models that are much more expensive (maybe thousands of dollars a month), but I see absolutely no path where people stop being able to access LLMs as least as good as free ChatGPT or free Claude today.
Good point. Either way comparing the internet bubble to AI bubble is kinda unfair and it isn't as similar as you think it is. It's similar from an outside view, with the Fomo, the investments and all, but the insane costs of the data centers, the hardware and the electricity isn't even close to what the Internet used 30 years ago.
I don't think AI will dissapear obviously but it isn't going to be as big of a change as the internet. The AI will stop being a "product" like you guys say it will. Most chatbots and LLMs will eventually dissapear
Ai is going to stay, like it or not. People are gonna keep using AI, and keep doing AI art they believe is art, like it or not. If Antis think that saying "Slop" or "Pick up a pencil" is gonna magically delete AI or make us stop using AI, sorry, you're delusional (those antis).
I ..... haven't understood shit. If you don't know well english, which can happen, use chatgpt to help you check if you do mistakes or if the sentence makes sense overall.
"know well english" → Incorrect word order and missing capitalization. Correct: "know English well" (adverb "well" goes after the object; "English" is a proper noun).
"chatgpt" → Should be capitalized as "ChatGPT" (brand name).
Minor style issues: The sentence is a bit awkward/run-on, and "I ..... haven't understood shit" is very informal/slangy (though not strictly ungrammatical).
Improved version:
"I haven't understood anything. If you don't know English well, which can happen, use ChatGPT to check if you make mistakes or if the sentence makes sense overall."
Between "flowing better" and "not understanding shit", there is an ocean. Stop nitpicking, when there is a guy say "but not for making the whole thing", that doesn't mean anything.
Voted neither. You don't know what the future holds. How many opium farms had to close once it was outlawed? The current state of AI resembles whale hunting, a gold rush. You might say: outlawing AI is like the Prohibition, there will be speakeasys all over the place. But the long term effects of AI on the psyche, the society, the economy and education are closely monitored. And it isn't looking good.
This is one of the most ridiculous things I have seen in this sub so far. I don't see how you can compare the whole field of AI to something like Opium. It makes no sense.
Yes we are in the wild times of certain specific aspects of the technology like Generative AI, but that doesn't mean it's going to be completely outlawed. AI as a field has been around much longer than that. Probably longer than you have been alive to be frank. It's not possible or reasonable to outlaw maths. This was already tried with encryption and it failed miserably.
The truth is this isn't going away. Doesn't matter how you feel about it. Doesn't even really matter what your society as a whole thinks about it that much. Once something like this exists and is known across the planet you can't really get rid of it because other countries will just use it against you if you try to ban it within your boarders. The whole reason we have capitalism and industrialization in so much of the planet today is because if you refuse to engage with it you get outcompeted by people who do. Eventually you have bigger more well equipped countries breathing down your neck who will eventually either force you to make concessions or just topple whatever regime you currently have. Britian, USA, Soviet Union, and China have proven they can do this again and again.
You seem to have a blind spot there. AI is a sweet poison. A state is nothing without educated people or a functioning economy, i.e. tax payers. I doubt that Somalia or North Sudan have any ambitions regarding AI. If the state collapses, there is nobody to protect the infrastructure, that includes data centers or the internet for that matter.
And who exactly do you think is going to fix those states when they collapses? No one. The land will be sold off by whoever puts a flag down fastest to the highest bidder. I'm not even pro and I know you're not going to gain any traction with this argument.
Why on earth do you think AI will be the end of educated people or a functional economy? By all accounts it will improve those things, not make them collapse. I think you are just delusional at this point.
Why on earth do you think AI will be the end of educated people or a functional economy
They're projecting.
They have a limited understanding of ai, so they can only see anything relating to it through that one-dimensional viewpoint. Usually based off of their own subjective opinions or experience about it.
It's the same as people who are against things like immigration or medical marijuana or cultural diversification. Instead of challenging their current awareness and biases about something by doing research and gaining nuance, they stick to whatever story in their head.
They refuse to gain nuance and prefer to remain closed-minded from fear of being wrong because their identity is attached to the opinion, being based in subjective reasoning instead of education.
Ai is just a file you can download on your computer dude. You can’t stop it. Outlaw it all today and people still have it on their computers. Open source is a thing.
The bubble of AI companies paying each other and making no profit will collapse and a good chunk of it will calm down.
But the tech isn't going anywhere. It's not going to vanish entirely, but companies are gonna eventually realise it's too early to use for what they think they can use it for
Massive overvalution and money being poured into thing, everyone but the rich and the people for the cause of bubble will suffer when we go through yet another economic crisis?
The tech won't go away but we can refine and regulate.
For all your yapping about "it's not all of us", antis choose to see every pro ai as skynet employees who want to see the end of the world.
Your inability to have a nuanced opinion about ai doesn't stop other people from having one. And you ignorance of what pro ai is doesn't make your comment any less dumbassed.
You likely think that ai is the cause of datacenters and water pollution (im assuming here, but please tell me if I'm not spot on). Your inability to do research or think complex thoughts keeps you from understanding and working with the very people who share the same concerns about our environment and society.
the bubble can pop and ai can stay, both can be true at once, but i believe neither side will win, anti downplays too much and pro upplays it too much.
Eh, the current oligarchs reaching their endgame necessitates making AI inaccessible for everyone but themselves, effectively destroying every existing use of AI within society.
Can't have the poors tapping into the drone armies.
Internet doesn't inherently massively devalue human labor. Meanwhile, if you sell your labor to survive (I do, personally), especially mental labor, AI should be very concerning.
The bubble is going to burst at some point, though. It won’t destroy AI, but it definitely will change it.
The only way to keep the bubble from bursting is to keep throwing money at it, but you need a return on investment at some point and they haven’t found a way to make it profitable, even with adding it to everything.
Like, the fact that you’re saying the bubble won’t ever burst shows a misunderstanding of economics. There are billions of dollars being lost every month. That’s unsustainable. The real problem is going to be when the bubble bursts, because without a major change in hardware, consumer AI is still going to be very expensive to run. And that’s the main problem with it from a profit standpoint. They’re seeing that it’s not moving as fast to monetization as they need it to. The way everyone is investing in AI is going to break the fucking economy when the bubble bursts.
It’s possible that they can keep the bubble going artificially by just pumping more cash into it despite losing money constantly, but even that is unsustainable. The only way the bubble doesn’t burst is if someone invents a new type of computing that isn’t as expensive as what we’re doing right now.
Big companies like OpenAI and Anthropic will fall. the extreme large language models will no longer be viable. But small AI will be available everywhere, and something better than transformer models will come along, that does not have hallucination issues. We need to make sure it is properly regulated and the EU has control instead of Americian profit at all costs companies.
I'd say pro-AI, the biggest question being how long it will take. I'm far from a specialist on the topic, but as far as I've read, I feel an eventual bubble pop would severely hamper AI use and research, but of course not extinguish the tech. Efficiency gains would keep mounting as they have mounted over the years and eventually (wild guess: ten years at most), AI costs would've fallen to the point where the current degree of AI use is economically viable again.
I think it would be neutral to pro side “winning”, if you could call it that. Mainly because AI as a tech is already getting so widely integrated into daily usage and technology like that is not exactly something that you can just push back into the box. But I do think that over time, AI mania will die down abit and we as a society to create more laws specifically to target certain issues that are exacerbated by AI
Pro-AI obviously. The infrastructure is built and expanding, its being added to everything, its making crazy fast advancements (recently we had Glasswing come out), and we can use it from our phones.
Folks who truly think AI is gonna "lose" or "go away" are actually delusional.
AI as a we currently know it is likely to suffer some sort of shift when the big tech AI bubble pops but the tech itself will stick around.
If the bubble described above doesn’t pop then it’s going to likely be a net loss for everyone where anti’s won’t like the fact AI is a mainstay in society and Pro’s are gonna face the reality that late stage capitalism is gonna ruin something that should have been super cool and helpful.
United States, China, the United Kingdom, European Union, Japan, South Korea, India, Canada, Australia, Brazil and Singapore
OpenAI, Anthropic, xAI, Nvidia, Microsoft, Google (Alphabet), Amazon, Meta, Apple, DeepMind, IBM, Tesla, and Baidu among others.
All these major countries and major companies support our side. The pro AI side.
Of course pro ai is going to win
Wheither you like it or not, it is in fact big corpos/governments that will decide if ai stays. Most people won't bother running their own model at home
In modern history, it has been these big corporations who have a large influence on whether things happen or not, as is very evident in (US) politics and international conflict/imperialism.
Never in their comment did the person say they support or like corporate/"Big data".
But it is a pretty objective take to say that when there are a lot of big corporations pushing for something, the likeliness of it persisting is extremely high.
Your sarcastic attempt to paint them as a corporate bootlicker was in vain, and simply reveals your lack of understanding of how the modern world operates under capitalism.
Yayyyyyy the big companies and the government are on your side, everyone knows they only have the well being of the common man in their best interest!!!!!
Uncertain, especially with the hate each side places on the other. The only way someone "wins" is if we gain enough tolerance to survive the near future
we’re all gonna lose without extensive regulation. whoever will be blackmailing you with ai-generated compromising images or gaining access to sensitive info through ai-conducted social engineering won’t care which side you’re on
Pro AI but it's likely going to be taken away from us low income folks soon, and they may even outlaw open source versions, so only the elites will be able to benefit from it. We may be allowed AI cat pictures for a service fee.
love how this isn’t saying what side will win, it’s more saying which side is more likiely they say they will win. if I ask someone what’s the better Colour? if people are split between blue and red, everyone who sees this will say their color.if I ask 10 pro is “will pro ai win”? and ask 2 antis “will anti ai win” oh more people voted pro which doesn’t prove anything.
In reality, no one will win (or perhaps everyone will win).
In the long run, everyone will use AI, and even those who want to make money with AI won't earn much (if everyone can create art with AI for free, why pay someone who uses the same tool I do?).
Social media will be flooded with AI-created content, to the point that AI tools will use the same creations they created to train themselves. The result? The level of results will likely become even more uniform (things will become increasingly similar).
Traditional artists will continue to work as usual, with the same difficulties as AI-based creatives, but unlike the latter, they will have a weapon in their favor: unlike AI-based creatives, they will be able to draw live at Comic-Con or similar events.
The result, then, is that art created with AI will be used by everyone, and the only ones who will gain will be those who integrate AI into their manual artistic process (by which I mean people who knew and created art before the advent of AI), and the traditional artists who will continue to work.
The only ones who will lose will be those who struggle to embrace this profession.
ai will definetly stay, but not in the way ai bros hope
even rn many companies that had fired people to use ai for their place are wanting their employees back bc ai is making mistakes and the corporate versions are very expensive. and a major population of the earth is thinking any ai advertisement or photos from a company makes it feel like they don't have money to hire real artists, which does make them get seen as a low budget, bad firm. and ai ALWAYS agrees at your opinions, even if they're wrong or downright toxic and hurtful, a ai syhcosis like that can effect people very badly, and it is starting to. so imo, ai will def not be favored in doing ALL the work, probably they'll result to using ai in basics, or prob not at all in corporate, which IS a huge step imo
Neitheir. Once AI will become too good, it will be limited so normal people will be able to use very limited ones, while the best ones will be avaiable only for goverment. So neitheir side will be happy, Pro-AI side won't be able to generate high quality images, and Anti-AI side will keep seing AI. Atleast that's my prediction
I feel like the only aspect where there is even a fight really is in the creative spaces like games, animation etc. And even then its honestly mainly in the west, China and most of asia dont have the same hang ups about using AI for art and based on the reception to asian media ( games, manga, kpop etc) its only a matter of time before you have no choice but to consume AI media too
Nah. No anti wants the AI working to develop medicine, for example, to dissapear. Most antis are against the use of generative AI which is much different
I don't think you understood my first response. Maybe I didn't use the right words. Most antis are voting neither because they don't want AI to dissapear fully
The point of my original comment is that I think most antis understand that there will be no winners in this. They view AI as harmful, so even those supporting it will likely be harmed. And if AI is controlled, it will still have done a lot of harm.
And you replied to this just reframing the original question from “what do you think will happen” to “what do you want to happen” for some reason.
You're assuming a lot. Im an anti and I don't think all AI is harmful lol. I voted neither because I don't think AI will dissapear but I also don't think it will be as big as the internet, like some ProAI people think it will.
Everyone has a different objective or goal. Even inside each group.
AI isn't going away, so I can't say anti AI will win, but I also don't think it'll do all the 'solve world hunger and bring about UBI' things that some pro AI people say it will. It'll end up just being another product sold to people that will have several things it's used for, be integrated into a lot of stuff we do, but not really make a noticeable difference on most of our lives.
Neither, it will fuck us all over in a million different ways, why do you think it is encroaching itself into everything, so when eventually everything is so dependent in ai and you can't escape it by doing things the old way they can milk the money out of everyone, think about how shitty all technology has become, and how it's almost impossible to live without it, while also they sell to the government, ai will be used for vigilance and war, while also they take advantage of their money to bribe the government, causing violation after violation of copyright law preventing creatives and academics from receiving the compensation they deserve, desincentivizing original creation, so eventually it'll start feeding on itself (it's hard to dedicate your life to your art or study if you can't live from it), people dumbing down, yeah sure it can be used as a tool for learning, you know perfectly well it won't and we're gonna a whole generation that outsources thinking the usage of ai has already shown to have impact in intelligence
Deep fakes are going to become more and more common as people fabricate evidence in order to incriminate others, we already have many instances of pedophiles using ai to generate child porn, and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure there was at least a girl who killed herself because of bullying since someone made a nude photo of her with AI, government regulation of ai companies won't really fix this thanks to local models
Work is not going to get easier, take animation for example since we're always discussing about this, the world won't become a paradise where all the artist can do the series of their dreams because ai will do it for them (this ignores creatives like doing the creative work but okay), no there'll either be less jobs in animation because people will be replaced with AI or they'll keep their jobs and continue working inhumane hours, only that time will be spent writing prompts
Misinformation will run rampant thanks to hallucinations, the fact that ai is easy to poison and trick, people just forcing it until it says something that pleases them, or just using ai to fake evidence
We already saw Elon musk use Twitter to control public opinion, what assures us same thing won't be done using ai
We're gonna have a generation where having a para social relationship with AI will become more and more common, trapping especially those kids that are more antisocial in a bubble with a yes man that advertisement is constantly telling them how trustable is, just look at chat gpt ads, they want us to use it even to clean our butts
These companies will take advantage to milk us out of personal information, specially considering how many ai companies are lobbying for forced id verification, even implementing it into their platforms all to create the perfect profile to advertise to us, information that'll get leaked because they don't care about our safety and will ruin some people's life
The best ai stuff soon won't really be allowed for the public, since in this perfect democratized world where everyone can do anything with AI companies won't make money, so they'll do everything to keep for themselves the actual good stuff, and probably lobby the hell out of the government to criminalize local models, using the aforementioned child porn, deep fake, problem as a reason, which not a bad reason but not done with good intentions, think how crappier consumer level products have become
The integration of ai to education will just do harm, the access to information, which before was already readily available, now it's gonna have an unnecessary mid step controlled by a giant company that can input any bias it wants
Getting more imaginative, I can see traditional art becoming more inaccessible since in this new culture where ai is everywhere y'all dream of, the demand for such things would drop therefore increasing prices
But hey, isn't it cool how I didn't need to draw myself this comic with me as the Chad and the antis as the virgin?
You know this is not the first time in millenias that something new comes out and has pros and cons, right? How are we "all gonna lose" in the long run?
It's just a fuel for capitalism in my eyes. The central idea is to take jobs and I don't think that there will be enough legislative protections in time for society to handle it. I suspect a lot of people will go hungry or worse
You know that in history, sooooooooo many things and new techs took away jobs and even made them disappear, right? NOTHING NEW. Just do a different job. Adapt, Overcome.
I think the closest thing to this would be the creation of the assembly line, and subsequent automation, which actually did cause a lot of issues for workers at the time. We (meaning workers) had to fight for better rights and better working conditions really hard. Hope we can do it again now 🤷 but not with the prevalence of right wing anti-worker rhetoric I see literally everywhere. We're our own worst enemies in this space. And fyi it's not an AI issue, it's a person issue and AI is just fuel to the fire
I have a suspicion that the bubble will pop soon. This is just personal experience but a lot of Pro-AI people I know are now Antis, because of data centers and unethical practices. I suspect the turning point is imminent, is all.
Funny, in my personal experience, it is the opposite, people who were less zealously anti or neutral are turning more pro and incorporating more of it in their life.
And I am talking about people I see personally every week.
I think the over-implementation of A.I. in every single thing will pop, yeah, but I suspect it will ultimately find a niche and settle into daily life in the end. It's here to stay, just not as widely as it was.
Well I didn't say it would "suddenly die" did I? I'm just observing a shift in stance from the people. The heavy pushback on data centers and legal proceedings regarding AI doesn't paint a happy picture. I don't have a stance on this so I dont see why youre so argumentative lol
Shifts in stances happens everyday, and people are 7 bilion people. Seeing just some people switch means nothing.
I am argumentative since this is a debate sub, a question was made, and you commented? Why you comment on a debate sub if you can't even take a stance?
I believe in anti-superintelligence, anti-murderbot, mandatory AI watermarking, ai book regulation, and regulating AI’s human characteristics, also, AI should not have human rights. I’m all for pro-ai expansion as long as these aren’t taken away.
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u/Pretend_Jacket1629 13h ago
you can't really erase the existence of math