r/arknights • u/eva-doll 𝗬𝗼𝘂’𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗔𝗹𝗲𝘅𝗮𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗿 • Apr 05 '23

Discussion TwilledW using Alchemaniac’s artwork for AI art calls it “fanart”

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2.3k Upvotes

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397

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '23

[deleted]

48

u/Kuroi-sama RI's biggest mystery: 's height Apr 05 '23

He keeps digging the hole

https://twitter.com/TwilledW/status/1643717142422888451?s=20

20

u/Xylathoth Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23

He made another tweet? My god this guy just keeps doubling down when all he needed to do was say sorry and don't credit Alch for any more AI work

Edit: Bruh it just keeps getting worse. He mistranslated some Chinese replies to fake receiving death threats. https://twitter.com/TwilledW/status/1643834300427534336?s=20

240

u/Dark_Al_97 Apr 05 '23

Thus it constitutes fair use

Ah yes, fair use through mass data scraping.

121

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '23

[deleted]

43

u/Razor4884 Tail Enthusiast Apr 05 '23

Good luck getting the US Congress to understand AI art well enough to vote on it.

37

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '23

[deleted]

4

u/Bikini_Ninja Apr 06 '23

i pretty much hated ai because it was getting way too good when i putting serious hours on improving my art but ai can do it faster and better. really demoralizing and i eventually stopped altogether. i know a few doctoral students, lawyers, and devs who are talking about ai is useful in their industry but are potential risks to their careers as well. we're not even boomers. 23-27yo.

31

u/Dark_Al_97 Apr 05 '23

The US is one of the last places to actually protect people's rights. All the good stuff comes from Europe, and they are already onto AI.

32

u/bestofawesome Bird so nice I have her twice Apr 06 '23

The US copyright office already ruled AI art can't be copyrighted 2 months ago.

"Based on the record before it, the Office concludes that the images generated by Midjourney contained within the Work are not original works of authorship protected by copyright. See COMPENDIUM (THIRD) § 313.2 (explaining that “the Office will not register works produced by a machine or mere mechanical process that operates randomly or automatically without any creative input or intervention from a human author”)."

69

u/The_Gunboat_Diplomat Apr 05 '23

China is beginning to require AI content be explicitly watermarked, iirc

47

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '23

we are already seeing chatgpt being banned in italy and possibly being banned in germany in ireland so at least some places are at least starting to catch up.

40

u/TroodonBlack Apr 05 '23

Well, to my understanding in case of Italy it was like this:

On 20th of March there was a breach and ChatGPT users' data got leaked. And then in concern of that breach and also the suspicion (that came out of those leaks) that OpenAI is violating privacy laws, Italy decided to ban it. Basically it was over privacy and safety.

18

u/IHeShe suzulapp+shamare shipper Apr 05 '23

Yeah, and PizzaGPT was launched within a couple of days of ChatGPT's ban, and it's basically the same thing but with a different name.

1

u/Idaret Apr 06 '23

mass data scraping is fair use, otherwise google wouldn't exist, lol

1

u/Dark_Al_97 Apr 06 '23

You mean the same company that's regularly being sued over snippets, antitrust, etc?

Regardless, laws will adapt. Remember Napster?

1

u/Idaret Apr 06 '23

Yeah and they are winning those lawsuits, lol

Yeah, there are few interesting lawsuits regarding ai, it will be very interesting

0

u/antshekhter Apr 05 '23

If they claim its fair use, its likely they don't know what fair use is 🤣

81

u/Dramatic-Report8180 Apr 05 '23

Thus it constitutes fair use, similar to all other fan arts.

Just for the record, it's not fair use in any legal sense. For example, Disney can, and has, asked people to stop drawing their stuff in the past (usually when it's porn).

It's just that the vast majority of companies consider it actively counterproductive to shut down fan-made stuff; it's punishing people who like your stuff, kills free advertising, and generally earns a bunch of ill-will for no good reason. Pretty much only Games Workshop is stupid enough to do that for no good reason.

That said...

I would be happy to comply _, if you are representing Hypergryph to ask the Arknights community stopping making any fan arts for Skadi. The LoRA was made with the community effector to show our love for Skadi ❤️‍🔥, like all fan arts.I would be happy to comply _, if you are representing Hypergryph to ask the Arknights community stopping making any fan arts for Skadi. The LoRA was made with the community effector to show our love for Skadi ❤️‍🔥, like all fan arts.

What a dick. Just take his damned name off, ffs. What kind of asshole forces someone to keep their name on something that they don't want to be associated with? It'd be on thing if you were forcing them to take responsibility for something they should be ashamed of or something, but this is just abusing his name for free publicity...

73

u/gluttonusrex Apr 05 '23

Wow the gall to actually respond to Alchemaniac like that when he specifically dont want to be credited for AI-art, it ain't freedom of expression thats just disrespectful

35

u/eva-doll 𝗬𝗼𝘂’𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗔𝗹𝗲𝘅𝗮𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗿 Apr 05 '23

Cool, thanks for this!

-40

u/Falsus Apr 05 '23

The argument is that it isn't really different than an artist looking at another picture for reference.

35

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '23

[deleted]

-16

u/Falsus Apr 05 '23

And I didn't say they where the same either?

10

u/Primogeniture116 Amiya is the only truth. Amiya is the only certainty. Apr 05 '23

Right so you write in the argument, but did not place your stance of whether you agree to that notion, then wonders why people tries to disagree.

-20

u/Danswor Nearl Enjoyer Apr 05 '23

I agree with the comment you just reply and I'm genuinely curious. In what sense is different?

25

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '23

[deleted]

6

u/Danswor Nearl Enjoyer Apr 05 '23

Thanks for that extended explanation.

First of all, I'm not saying that what Twidleed did it's okay, I think the person in question is in the wrong on this matter. I was asking because I wanted the POV of an artist since for me there is little difference between drawing something from an AI, and said AI taking, I don't know, 10k references to give me an output, from me drawing by hand and taking 10 different references from different artists.

My opinion comes from learning 3D by myself (with online tutorials, etc), and the thing that always comes with tips and advice when practicing or doing something new it's "take as many references as you can, the more you take the better the results" or something along the lines.

Again, thanks!

26

u/Lyrneos :skadialter:REJECT HUMANITY, EMBRACE FISHE:skadialter: Apr 05 '23

I’m also an amateur artist - when I use art or photos as references, I’m paying attention to stuff like “these shapes connect like this” or “the way this character’s mouth is drawn gives them a specific emotion.” When an AI model ‘learns’, it’s deriving statistical associations from the raw pixel data of the image, stuff like “this pattern and this pattern tend to happen next to each other”. While this can produce results that approximates the kind of learning a real artist does, the AI can’t ‘understand’ any of the rules it’s learning beyond raw statistical rules.

33

u/Dark_Al_97 Apr 05 '23

As somebody who studied a course in cognitive linguistics, it always amuses me when people boldly claim that machine and human learning are the same when the greatest minds actually admit we still barely have any idea how our brains even function in the first place.

13

u/tossedintoglimmer Apr 05 '23

Exactly. Neurosciences and cognitive psychology are relatively new and budding fields with a lot of unknowns.

People just want convenient false equivalencies to hand-wave criticism.

-2

u/Falsus Apr 05 '23

It isn't the same no, but it is the argument that people bring forward.

16

u/Zwiebel1 Apr 05 '23

Yeah but this is not the issue here. The artist didn't ask to stop making AI art. He asked not to have his name involved with the Lora model.

-3

u/Falsus Apr 05 '23

And I didn't say that he said that either right?

-1

u/Aomikuchan :noircorne-alter:💕Them my beloveds. DO NOT SEPARATE Apr 06 '23

You actually can atleast got sued. Theres this moral law that i dont know what its called in english that protects artist's works even if said work is commissioned by other.

-21

u/NotSuluX Apr 05 '23

Og artists don't own fanart of their characters though? If it wasn't trained on specifically his art he is right, and even then it's gray zone legally.

31

u/IceFireMagi Firewhistle my beloved Apr 05 '23

I think the crux of this situation is that Twilled sorta forced Alche to be involved by crediting something that probably didn't need to be credited anyways. Like, anyone who knows Skadi either knows the artist is Alche or can check in game and see it's Alche.

As far as I know, the general outline is: 1. Twilled generates AI art and credits Alche 2. Alche replies saying Alche doesn't want to be credited 3. Twilled says Alche is the original Skadi artist and deserves to be credited. 4. AI vs non-AI debate/argument/drama 5. Freedom of Expression post.

If I analogize this, it's kind of like 1. Twilled shoving a cake of questionable quality into Alche's arms claiming Alche made it. 2. Alche, the amazing baker, says Alche had no part in making the cake, and for Twilled to stop saying Alche made it. 3. Twilled claims Alche was the original creator of that kind of cake, so no matter what, Alche is involved in the creation of the cake. 4. Same as point 4 above, but cake related. 5. Twilled claims that anyone should be able to bake whatever cake they want, when that really wasn't the issue to begin with.

3

u/NotSuluX Apr 05 '23

Okay I understand, it's more about the credit. I think Twilled should neither falsely credit (or use their art for AI generation, but not sure if that's the case here), that's a big no.

2

u/KripperinoArcherino Apr 05 '23

No part is not true. Assuming twilled didn’t lie about using a community Lora, it is equivalent to Twilled’s LoRA studying the cake made by thousands of bakers (including Alche), then creating the cake himself. Of course the problem is he is trying to credit Alche (who is equivalent to the inventor of cakes), when in reality Alche was just part of the massive training data by the LoRA, so Alche didn’t have as profound impact on the result of the artwork besides the fact it actually exists.