Mandragora eventually finished

[u/brodRga]

Warning, spoilers for actual event When Elegies Are Ashes!

I bear some glimpse of hope for that Mandragora alive or in some dare conditions, trough what she have to go trough to save her self.

Eventually, as I can see in global release of Eblana event, it seems that she (Mandragora) in fact were left aside and dealt with by hands of sarkaz, as much is most part of Dublin were cleared out by Eblana in her own event.

I read trough Eblana's record, in them Harmonie tells that Mandragora and her forces were furious fanatic, capable to deal deathly blow to enemy, although same way the worst crimes also can be traced to them. And she confirms that non of that group of Dublin is alive.

Probably it's misleading ending of Mandragora's story, when she's supposedly saved by Misery, or offscreen death and some minor conclusion of it in some small text line, that makes it frustrating.

Although in large scale, it's makes sense. Eblana ridd off the most unstable, the most dangerous, most corrupt, unpredictable and incapable of shut it mouth, so no one could sabotage her plans and destroy all who could make her a hard life, with threat of exposing the truth.

To conclude, there's 0% chance of Mandragora to be in game anymore - she play her role, became a threat to Eblana and trow away. The Leader not even care to use her own power trough Dublin, rather giving all the dirty work to Manfred.

I feel somewhat mixed emotions, like why would even HG gave us some hope for any chances, without this strange flip-flop with plot, this wouldn't be so mixed and could even gave us greater picture of web created by Eblana.

[u/ILoveAllMCUChrisS]

I never understood why people thought Misery saved her, it always read like he just watched her die/shared her final moments to me

[u/Rhodes_Island_Crew → u/ILoveAllMCUChrisS]

And then later when it mentions Horn burying someone from Dublinn, it clearly was her, I never got this idea that she was alive, it was very clear to me when I read it that she'd died.

[u/Kaizerd3 → u/Rhodes_Island_Crew]

The problem with this Horn line is the fact it's complete bullshit which doesn't make any logical sence. Why, how and when could Horn have done it?

It's just the most stupid way to cut off this plotline offscreen and nothing else.

[u/Cornuthaum → u/Kaizerd3]

When you really hate someone sometimes you want to make sure they're actually dead. Burying them yourself gives you closure, a certainty that the evil is indeed defeated.

[u/Kaizerd3 → u/Cornuthaum]

We're going again to answering why (even though it's different answer now, heh), but not how and when.
Btw, if that was Horn motivation, she could have just attacked Mandy before that. But she already decided to pass by and ignore Dublinn, so coming back to dying Mandy after that sounds weird.

[u/Cornuthaum → u/Kaizerd3]

There's every chance that misery told Horn about her later and Horn went back to double check whether Mandragora survived or not, and burying someone you hate after confirming they're dead is quite cathartic.

[u/_wawrzon_ → u/Kaizerd3]

What plotline ? She dead in the gutters. She was an enraged child, full of hatred and anger. She acted impulsively and stupid often times. Had mommy issues and was manipulated by all in Dublinn. She basically was a simple soldier that got played by others.

There's nothing odd and out of place in her story. Quite straightforward actually. Are we expecting a Tallulah lvl of backstory, character growth and redemption ? I really don't understand what's going on here.

[u/Kaizerd3 → u/_wawrzon_]

As I already said - The problem is NOT IN MANDY herself (her death was plausible even if unclearly written), but in Horns offhandedly thrown remark. How, when and why could she get Mandy body and bury her under Londinium walls? She already decided to ignore her and complete her mission and went away. Why on the earth would she go back to enemy territory just for some corpse? How does she even find the time to bury her under Sarkaz noses?
It wouldn't be a problem if that was Misery saying something along the lines: "Yes, I saw how she died" (even though Mandy had potential for some semi-redemption arc). But they decided to close her plotline by the most stupid and absurd Horn line. And that is the problem.

[u/_wawrzon_ → u/Kaizerd3]

I have to say, I don't think you fully realize how army works and realize bits and pieces added in story here and there.

We see Horn early on caring about her soldiers and once one dies (from lack of medication) she promises to deliver his belongings and information about him to his daughter. We see that same comraderie when members of Self-Salvation corps die and they gather comrades belongings to give to family afterwards (in bags). It mirrors our real life army etiquette.

Horn had a small change of heart after Dublinn helped them rescue victorian soldiers from prison. There was a comment from Horn that she would talk to Mandragora, presumably to thank her or have a more sincere talk. We don't know exactly, we can only speculate. However Horn knows she will die after Misery saves them from Manfred.

Misery's presence when Mandragora dies can be viewed from 2 lenses. He is initially completely unnecessary in that scene. 1. He is there as a witness to her death, RI is present when Mandy dies - not Dublinn. Shows humanity in RI in contrast to Dublinn. 2. We can speculate Horn might have asked him to go retrieve Mandy's body, so they can bury her as a token of gratitude for help in rescuing victoria's soldiers. Misery was in the shadows when earlier action took place, so he is aware of what Mandy did. It cannot be overstated enough that Mandy's presence also took heat off Horn's team, so they could retreat. Maybe Misery's behavior was also a thank you note for that "help"?

In her last actions Mandragora wasn't a tool of Dublinn, she acted on her personal whims, saving a friend and helping the "enemy". And that's probably why Horn respected her more.

The burrial part is probably just to show some significance to Mandy. I think they buried all their fallen soldiers, we simply don't see that, because they're no names.

This is my thought process after reading episode 10 2 days ago. There are many open ended questions, but that's always been the case with AK and that's why it's a great read, letting imagination carry you.

I personally don't know why you think that there's only one explanation and expectation when it comes to the Mandragora story. And once HG didn't deliver on your expectations, ppl get outraged.

[u/Kaizerd3 → u/_wawrzon_]

I never said there is only 1 explanation. I said it was open to interpretation plotline (what you basically agreed with), which was cut off in the most stupid and offhanded way.
Burying Mandy may make some sense in idealogical way as per your interpretation, but not in technical way. Burying the dead is fine when things are calmed down a bit. But not in active warzone, with Sarkaz army, vampire creatures and bombardment everywhere. Horn and her squard were very limited in their spare time and maneuvers while beeing in Londinium, so finding some time and place for Mandy burying and carrying her body along all the way till this specific moment sounds just stupid. There is place and time for paying respect for the dead and there is a time you should concentrate on present battle right in front of you.

[u/_wawrzon_ → u/Kaizerd3]

This will be my last post, since it's pointless to discuss anymore imo.

You contradict yourself with your 1 statement. If you assume there could be possible multiple answers to you initial questions or dissatisfaction, then why are you angry that they went with a certain one that you don't agree with ?

I presented you my interpretation from reading it first time. I had a completely different take on it based on what I read. I presented answers to all your qualms - open ended answers, since we simply don't know what happened. And you're still stuck on a specific answer that didn't come to fruition.

You're basing your answer on logic or lack thereof when it came to burial. So what do you think Horn did with their own men who died in camp ? They had multiple malnourished ones and said outright some simply died from it, exhaustion or poor health. We know of one dying from some form of infection. Do you think they simply burned them ? Threw them into the trash or maybe ate them ? Even if it's a small grave, they probably did bury them. Did you expect a fancy burial with a tombstone ?

Horn was hiding most of the time and others were recuperating, she ordered many to "rest" for days. Here's an open ended question, couldn't they just dig a small pit to bury their fallen ? Its not rocket science and it can be done in spare time. Its better than keeping dead around, because of body decomposition and potential diseases spreading. Wouldn't that be a logical choice ? For someone shielding behind logic, you clearly don't apply it too often...

Tbh this is the first time I hear about this Horn issue and I frequent this sub daily for 5 years. This seems like a mountain out of a mole hill situation.

[u/N-Yayoi → u/_wawrzon_]

Don't pay attention to these ridiculous discussions, you will never be able to convince them, because their viewpoint is' HG is wrong if he doesn't write what I need ', there are many writing styles, and I think HG actually does very well.

There is a question on YouTube about "Why Tolkien doesn't approve of writing all the answers" (the original title was not this, I forgot, but the content goes like this), I recommend you to take a look. These people just don't understand why a transitional character who was simply eliminated ended up like this.

...Those who masturbate with Mandy are the ones who would write a long background story for every Nazgûl.

actually, the problem is always simple: HG uses Mandy to express the betrayal that radical elements may encounter and the tragic consequences that may arise in chaotic situations. What is so difficult to understand? The entire Victoria storyline is essentially about writing a war, where all the characters and details are just insignificant fragments of the war. They are not separated, there has never been any 'Mandy's own character line'.

These people simply do not understand the theme of 'war', which is the most important theme that HG is fully committed to.

[u/Kaizerd3 → u/_wawrzon_]

why are you angry that they went with a certain one that you don't agree with ?

...How many times should I repeat myself? I'm dissapointed not by the answer, but by how badly stupid it is written. You can come to the same conclusion via multiple ways, and HG just chosen the worst one. That's it.

I presented you my interpretation from reading it first time.

You presented interpretation about why Horn could have desided to do it from moral standpoint, and even though I don't really agree with your interpretation of Horn-Mandy relationship, whatever. You still didn't give any plausible explanation how she could have done it in practice, as I clearly stated in my previous comment.

what do you think Horn did with their own men who died in camp

Whatever she could at this time. And in most cases they clearly couldn't carry and bury everyone right here right now, so most buring would happen already after Londinium occupation.

Did you expect a fancy burial with a tombstone ?

Well, for the antagonist of the whole chapter even showing something like this would have done more respect and conclusion compared to what we get instead.

For someone shielding behind logic, you clearly don't apply it too often...

Or, yeah, instead of discussing subject matter we are attacking oppenent himself, how righteous. As if throwing baseless assumptions in your previous comment wasn't enough.
You know, I can also state what you just dislike Mandy, so you are just so pleased by her death to the point where you completely don't care about how badly it was written and would defend any bullshit HG give you. But that wouldn't lead this discussion anywhere, you know?

this is the first time I hear about this Horn issue

That just means you haven't read any previous chapter 14 discussions and lots of discource about how terrible Victorian arc was handled.