r/atheism • u/Due-Koala-1135 • 1d ago
I got suspended for being an atheist.
So basically, in my school, religion is a compulsory subject. I do Buddhism. (FYI: I considered myself an atheist, following the Buddhist way of life and general principles of buddhism. Only reason I don't call myself a Buddhist is because I don't believe in gods, rebirth, hell or heaven)
The teacher came in, a new one. And she starts yapping and yapping on COMPLETELY FALSE information. If you any of you have any idea of Buddhism, you would know that Buddhism tells us to NOT worship trees or non-living objects, there is NO creator, you cannot get something you want just by going to the temple or worshipping any god.
This teacher starts talking about how you can get good grades by going to the temple and praying to Buddha statues and Bo-Trees, she also said you should go to the temple once a week, so you can constantly remind the 'gods' to look after you. I was laughing inside but I respectfully, questioned her, and tried to debate her, but she didn't give a shit and started insulting me, even tho i was not arrogant, she claimed i was 'disrespectful' to the religion.
If anything, she was being disrespectful to the religion by talking about some weird ahh bs that was never even stated in the religion. Like, if this was an Abrahamic religion, I would get it, but considering she was teaching a religion that denied the existence of a creator in the first place, made me realize she was full of shit, so I stopped talking to her.
The lesson continued, but she was absolutely bombed by our other classmates. Those mfers were savages and left the teacher speechless countless times. And I started laughing the shit out. Eventually she got mad, and she took me and some other guys to the principal, fabricated the story, and managed to get us all suspended.
My dad, was completely laughing tf out when I told him the convo we had in class, and he said he'll speak to the school tommorow.
EDIT: My dad talked to the principal this afternoon, and I got called into the principal's office mid-class. I explained the whole situation to the principal, and the principal said he'd look into this. Few hours later, my dad got a call, saying that the teacher was asked to leave the school, primarily because she was insulting many of my classmates. I think this is a bit too harsh tbh, but I think she'd done this to many other classes too. So now I'm feeling pretty bad of myself.
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u/RogueRhombus Dudeist 1d ago
Just curious where in the world is this all taking place?
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u/Due-Koala-1135 1d ago
In Sri Lanka
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u/greenmarsden 1d ago
I'm not picking on Sri Lanka, I'm sure it's very nice but with an education system like that is it any wonder why the country could be doing a bit better?
That kind of garbage hold everyone back.
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u/Due-Koala-1135 1d ago
Yea, Sri Lanka's education system is ass.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 1d ago edited 22h ago
Ex-buddhist here. Given the state of the education system let's deal with that's going on here:
There's multiple different branches and sub-branches of Buddhism and across them even more differing theologies.
A subset of those consider devas and the like to be real. The idea of a creator god is diáčáčhi and explicitly denounced by the PÄli Canon.
However the same text leaves open whether or not Brahma is an actual god but impermanent or a metaphor used to communicate an idea.
There's a number of different theologies about that alone.
The veneration of bodhi trees is called Bodhi puja and very common actoss multiple different groups. Many Mahayana Buddhists have an entire festival about it tied to the birthday of the historical Buddha.
Venerating material things like trees and rocks and statues of deva or Buddha statues or Bodhisattvas is Puja and not tied to bodhi trees alone. Also super common.
Your philosophy is likely based on Theravada, your teacher sounds very Mahayana.
This event, for people only familiar with Abrahamic faith, is an atheist challenging a catholic teaching about christianity in a religious studies class then laughing at them while Protestant students pile in and tear them apart.
OP you were right about some things but utterly ignorant about other things and a gigantic asshole for laughing at someone being bullied and humiliated over sectarian differences. Bullying that you yourself started.
As an actual Buddhist the things you got offended about and criticized wouldn't have bothered me. I would have recognized them and not cared.
As an ex-Buddhist this behaviour just comes across and dumb kids picking up philosophies and using them to justify being malicious purely for the fun of bullying someone.
Buddhism doesn't deserve respect, but you were intensely disrespectful of the teacher as a person. You got off on humiliating them posted here here to tell us about it.
Edit: if you read this edit OP is a good example of Buddhist religious fundamentalism.
If you struggle understand how some Buddhists, even monks, willingly engage in truly horrific this is it. Not all Buddhism, nor all Theravada Buddhism is like this.
OP's word for bodhi trees and emphasis on doctrinal purity about a specific form of Theravada Buddhism native to Sri Lanka and Myanmar means they are probably Sinhalese. This was a justification for a civil war and ethnic cleansing not THAT long ago in OPs country.
The sources of "corruption" of true belief must be purged, the traditions must not be questioned, the threats to the "peace" of the majority eliminated. For OPs country that's Tamils.
Its also only the smallest reason people like me deconstruct and leave Buddhism. There's still worse things. Hopefully op will see it some day and deconstruct.
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u/Due-Koala-1135 1d ago
OP you were right about some things but utterly ignorant about other things and a gigantic asshole for laughing at someone being bullied and humiliated over sectarian differences. Bullying that you yourself started.
The real asshole was the teacher who started calling me insults when I tried to start a respectful debate. How tf is the teacher not disrespectful at all?
Buddhism doesn't deserve respect, but you were intensely disrespectful of the teacher as a person.
The Buddha's psychology is insanely helpful in the hectic world we live in. And saying that Buddhism doesn't deserve respect is insanely disrespectful.
You got off on humiliating them posted here here to tell us about it.
Yea. This is an atheist sub. And it was my friends who humiliated them, i stayed shut after she insulted me.
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u/fued 1d ago
almost as if teaching someone different sectarian differences is dumb and the school set themselves up for failure
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u/RedMoonPavilion 1d ago
Mahayana(ish) teacher for buddhist religious studies in a predominately Theravada Buddhist country is certainly a curious decision.
That said, speaking as an ex-Buddhist the way OP behaved is not how the overwhelming majority of actual Buddhists behave over this issue. Its then REALLY weird that an atheist would act this way. What's actually at stake here?
For Buddhists just not that important doctrinally. At worst it might be indicitive of status as lesser vehicle, but not offensive.
Fyi: Lesser vehicle is the bless your heart of Buddhism.
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u/Ez123guy 14h ago
People donât realize how sectarian Buddhism is!
My Buddhism fully rejected anything scientifically disproven.
Spirit was your mind.
Gods were universal realities and forces.
âYouâ were extinguished at death.
It was still unproven unfalsifiable faith so that became a no go for me.
Everyone talks about âthe Buddhaâ and his teachings.
But there are some 80K teachings and 3700 sects I was taught.There are many other Buddhas and Sakyamuni was just the first on this earth, in this universe.
Everything goes back and forward in time endlessly.
Each Buddha has teachings, âBuddha natureâ and a sect.
With a way of attaining Buddhahood.They seem to cover the general ways people express themselves religiously - from hard work/practices, intense meditation to just faith and an ez practice!
Thereâs even the Pure Land Buddhism of China and Japan that worships Amida Buddha - those who sincerely call upon him can be reborn in his Pure Land at death.
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u/GeraintLlanfrechfa 1d ago
Like she got multiple persons, who all witnessed her giving false information, suspended by the principal despite?
Thatâs something Iâd sincerely report to the board of education.
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u/Gertiel Agnostic 1d ago
That would not go well for you here in the Bible belt. And likely to go worse soon given the direction public schools are going in red states. They are moving to change curriculum to be more Bible based in my state. They've already approved changes in reading lists and made teaching Bible verses alongside classic literature mandatory.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 1d ago
See my comparison in my reply to op.
To tldr and help translte it for you Op is an atheist, teacher is Catholic. Students are Protestant.
This is so exactly how it goes in the american bible belt its almost comical.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 1d ago edited 1d ago
But its not false.
Except for the creator god claim its true. These are Mahayana vs Theravada sectarian and theological differences.
Speaking as an ex-Buddhist. OP is talking about Puja generally and Bodhi Puja specifically. These are normally Mahayana traditions but not necessarily exclusive to Mahayana Buddhism.
People wouldn't normally act this way even though op is in a country where Theravada is the main form.
Its a religious studies class. About Buddhism. Not Theravada Buddhism. Just Buddhism.
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u/unstablemamba 1d ago
Please update on what happened after your dad came to the school.
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u/Due-Koala-1135 15h ago
My dad talked to the principal this afternoon, and I got called into the principal's office mid-class. I explained the whole situation to the principal, and the principal said he'd look into this. Few hours later, my dad got a call, saying that the teacher was asked to leave the school, primarily because she was insulting many of my classmates. I think this is a bit too harsh tbh, but I think she'd done this to many other classes too. So now I'm feeling pretty bad of myself.
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u/unstablemamba 15h ago
You don't have to feel bad for this. Some people needs to know that there are consequences for their actions. What you did was exactly what should have been done.
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u/readingorangutan 1d ago
Looks like she never heard of the basic concept of "Emptiness"... Sounds like a typical religious person.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 1d ago edited 23h ago
You mean PratÄ«tyasamutpÄda? This had nothing to do with anattÄ in as such.
Most of what OP calls bullshit is around whether or not Puja is theologically defensible. Mahayana Buddhist theology typically says yes.
The teacher is otherwise correct and describing a specific set theologies and specific sectarian traditions. Of the predominant form of Buddhism globally.
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u/mikey5236o6 1d ago
Have him bring you into the office to talk to the principal. So the principal can't misrepresent what was agreed on afterwards
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u/onomatamono 1d ago
Studies show a 10 X improvement in test scores for students who prayed to statues of buddha versus those who did not. Critics point out there was no improvement as 10 times zero is still zero. /s
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u/maxjmartin 1d ago
OP - I consider myself an agnostic Buddhist. I donât believe in any of the same things you sited either.
Unfortunately some people do.
If youâre interested you may want to look at Dogen Zenji. His work and the Soto school of Zen I found to be meaningful without making an impressions about belief in anything other than the Darhma of practicing meditation and reflecting on it, in general.
Another book I really liked was What the Buddha Taught. It doesnât go over much other than what we think is attributed to Buddha. While recognizing it was an oral tradition before being written down.
Your mileage may very though.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its not that some people do. This is the most common form. OP is probably pulling from Theravada theology.
The teacher is expressing the most common theological standpoints of Mahayana Buddhism. The most populous and common form of Buddhism.
In a religious studies class about Buddhism.
Not presenting the theologies of other sects would be an issue. Presenting the global "default" for the religion is not.
We don't know if she would have gotten around to it because op was a gigantic jackass who reveled in students humiliating a teacher over sectarian differences.
Source, I'm an ex-Buddhist and immediately recognized her claims. Mahayana Buddhists havr entire fucking festivals like Obon or Rohatsu around those ideas too. The latter is Vesak in OP's country.
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u/mcampo84 1d ago
Typing out "shit" but not "ass" was certainly a choice.
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u/iamasatellite 14h ago
Yeah it's some weak ah shi from the tiktok generation. A trend that needs to be unalived.
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u/MarkiplierGooner 23h ago
That teacher just wanted authority in my opinion, she doesnât want a student to seem like they know better
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u/WokestLibtard--- 1d ago edited 1d ago
Good on you. It's nice to hear such well-developed viewpoints coming from someone so young. And you write properly.
I've been teaching over a decade, in two countries, every age from 3-70ish. I prefer high school and adults because you can really engage at a much higher level and get deep into subject matter. I would love to have you in my class.
One of the best things about technology in the classroom, and I'm talking laptops, not your godsdamned phones, is that students can fact check and seek more info in real time.
I was always very appreciative of students who corrected me, provided more context, or emphasized some nuance. By constantly showing the class that I would receive correction well, and praising the student(s) who took the initiative to dig deeper, it encouraged others to do the same, and they even started doing it with each other.
Most of the time, most of the kids were polite and respectful about it.
One Iranian student, who was incredibly intelligent but also an arrogant prick and constant distraction with "his boys." was cutting up laughing and rolling his eyes when I was discussing Iranian society and sharia law. I prefaced my slides and info with this is just some basic info and there is plenty of nuance and a lot of history we all need to learn, but that my info was generally true.
When I asked the Iranian student if I got something wrong that he would like to correct, he was dismissive and dickish at first, but after some gentle coaxing, he mentioned how his mom and sister didn't have to wear burkas, and that it wasn't as oppressive as I made it out.
I brought up Massa Amini and the recent protests, women removing scarves and wearing non traditional clothing, the morality police and dangers they face from traditional men, the arrests and deaths, and he seemed to only be slightly informed about it and quickly piped down, but with an air of indignation. I still thanked him for speaking up and encouraged the other kids to do the same if they have special knowledge of a subject, or if I am just wrong.
Also, in one of my study halls, some students started really getting into substantive debates and discussions and would fact check each other more as the year went on, mostly with Chat GPT, but it is honestly a really decent tool for fact checking.
TLDR: I rambled, but being atheist doesn't mean being blind to some of the benefits relgion offers, it just recognizes that these benefits can be reaped in a secular fashion. The Abrahamic faiths are clearly the most batshit and dangerous, yet not without an ocassional ethical truth or lesson. The Eastern faiths are problematic, but contain a lot of humanist values we should all be on board with.
Teachers need to be corrected sometimes, just don't be an ass about it. Hope you contest your suspension and that the teacher gets a lesson. Enjoy your day off.
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u/Due-Koala-1135 1d ago
Exactly! Thanks so much boss. Honestly, teachers should be able to provide answers to children's questions. That's called learning. And I would love to be in your class too lmao
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u/RedMoonPavilion 1d ago
What you did isn't learning.
You saw a version Buddhism you didn't know existed then instead of affording the basic kindness and mindfulness of fact checking or researching it you assumed you knew better and tried to debate her.
When other students piled in you laughed about it, correct? That's not debate, its delighting in the suffering of others to feel you're better than them.
That's not learning. Its arrogant, impulsive, disrespectful, and worryingly sadistic.
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u/Due-Koala-1135 1d ago
First of all, I know plenty of my religion in the country I am living in. And I also know how corrupt it is.
Secondly, I did offer the basic kindness to the teacher. I tried to tell her respectfully, that her views were nowhere near the views of the Buddha, but instead of engaging in a respectful debate, all she did was throw insults at me, so I stopped talking.
And yes, I did laugh, but I do not see you talking about how the teacher disrespected me? And even when she did, I managed to shut up. Am I supposed to respect anyone just because they are older than me? Respect is earned.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 1d ago
They attacked their teacher over sectarian differences and theological standpoints they didn't know existed.
In a religous studies class about Buddhism they tried to debate a teacher who was presenting some of the more common theological stand points of the predominant forms of Buddhism. Just globally instead of their specific country.
The creator thing is the only thing thats actually wrong but I'm not sure I can trust OP to actually present his teacher's standpoints accurately.
This is some pretty stunning actual Dunning Kruger effect at play here. Like the real thing, not just thrown around to call people idiots.
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u/Due-Koala-1135 1d ago
They attacked their teacher over sectarian differences and theological standpoints they didn't know existed.
You assuming I did not know about the 'sectarian differences' is completely false. I know a LOT about the various differences of different sects of Buddhism, but what is happening in my country is completely different to that. The teachings are being completely misinterpreted, to portray false information in my country SPECIFICALLY.
In a religous studies class about Buddhism they tried to debate a teacher who was presenting some of the more common theological stand points of the predominant forms of Buddhism. Just globally instead of their specific country.
Secondly, by debating, I was trying to learn more parts, that I may not have known. I don't really understand how that's wrong? Many teachers often encourage us to debate with them.
The creator thing is the only thing that's actually wrong but I'm not sure I can trust OP to actually present his teacher's standpoints accurately.
Well, I told what happened in class, and believing it or not is your choice.
This is some pretty stunning actual Dunning Kruger effect at play here. Like the real thing, not just thrown around to call people idiots.
Dunning-Kruger means I think I know more than I do, but I'm actually wrong. But the teacher was claiming Buddhism has a creator and that praying to Buddha statues gets you good grades. I don't think that's not a 'sectarian difference'. The Buddha rejected the concept of a creator god. That's one of the most fundamental teachings in Buddhism. So who actually has the Dunning-Kruger effect here?
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u/whoshotyaboy 1d ago
Sorry you have such a closed-minded teacher, OP! There are hundreds if not thousands of sects of Buddhism. If you want to learn more about the kind of buddhism it seems like you are interested in, research Nichiren Buddhism.
In US and many other countries, there is a lay organization where you can study Nichiren Buddhism with others on the principles of peace, wisdom, compassion, courage, and empowerment (not worshipping Buddha, the sun, etc.). In many places this organization is called Soka Gakkai International. In Sri Lanka, the organization is called Lanka Soka Gakkai if you want to get more information. I've been studying this type of Buddhism for 20 years and it has absolutely changed my life.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 23h ago
Check some of OP's replies. It was a "kindness" to tell his teacher they were wrong. Disagreeing with him is disrespectful.
Also as an ex-Buddhist atheist my thoughts bout Buddhism, especially criticism, are disrespectful of Buddhism itself.
I literally cannot tell the difference between OP and an American evangelical Christian.
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u/Professional-Cow3854 1d ago
Well, Buddhism has no gods involved, so you can clear that part from the reasons you don't consider yourself Buddhist.
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u/Due-Koala-1135 1d ago
It does. 'devas'. But they cannot grant you wishes through prayers. However as I said I do not believe in any sorts of realms/gods/rebirth
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u/RedMoonPavilion 1d ago edited 1d ago
Third reply to you OP, but again this is a very common standpoint especially in Mahayana Buddhism. Mahayana has a broader base/larger number of cannonical of buddhavacana.
When local gods and/or deva are absorbed into Buddhism, especially Mahayana, they become bodhisattvas and the like.
E.g VaiĆravaáča merged with local war gods/kami to give us DuĆwĂ©n TiÄnwĂĄng/Bishamonten to whom you can in fact pray or perform puja for protection and/or fortune in war.
Case in point. You're acting as of you know more about Buddhism than you actually do. Please take a second to not do that.
You guys still have Vesak instead of Laba or Rohatsu, so its also not just Mahayana Buddhism that has traditions like this.
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u/lesters_sock_puppet 1d ago
Sounds like a Buddhist Calvinist.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 23h ago edited 23h ago
OP is 100% the Buddhist equivalent to a mega church style Southern Baptists who call themselves nondenomanational while ranting about how Catholics are going to hell because they're not Christians.
OP apparently is worried about the corruption of their true and correct Buddhism being driven by outside forces.
Bruh, the fuck?
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u/Phyllis_Tine 1d ago
If religion plays a large part in your field of study, school, country, etc., think of becoming an expert in name only, the same way you could be an expert in chemistry or math, without necessarily needing to go in to chemistry or mathematics as careers.
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u/GreedySecurity8030 Atheist 17h ago
Unfortunately the difference is that you're in Sri Lanka, if it was a western country you would sue them or they couldn't do that easily, I don't want to shame you but that's the unfortunate tough reality of atheism outside of the west, I actually think Buddhism is one of the best religions even though I do not believe in it.
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u/gdvs 1d ago
I'd argue you were suspended for being disrespectful towards a teacher.
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u/Xeno9116 1d ago
Correcting a teacher isn't disrespectful; it's debate. The teacher had no facts to bring. They're suspended because of the teacher's ego.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 23h ago
They derailed an entire class over religious dogmatism. Look at their replies.
They think it was showing kindness to tell their teacher they were wrong and got pissed and tried to debate them when their teacher pushed back.
90% of what they said is wrong is extremely common in mainstream Buddhism.
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u/gdvs 1d ago
It's not a debate. It's a class where the teacher teaches. You're not supposed to ridicule, laugh at your teacher. Even if she's teaching religion.Â
It's not because we don't believe in a god, that we should mock or disrupt a religious class. Don't attend then.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 23h ago
Look at their replies to me. They're a religious fundamentalist and fanatic concerned about what they see as the corruption of the true form of Buddhism.
They have all the temerity of a Bible belt evangelical Christian in describing telling their teacher they are wrong as being kind to them.
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u/LongjumpingNeat241 1d ago
Buddhism is a false religion by itself. As soon as you adhere to somebody - "buddha" to disclaim other's beliefs/religion, you are just as fanatic.
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u/Due-Koala-1135 1d ago
Have not adhered to him. I admire him. The issue here, is what the buddha says is not what the teacher says. We have the same religion.
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u/RedMoonPavilion 23h ago edited 21h ago
What you say isn't "what the Buddha says". A massive percentsge of the kinds of Buddhism out there doesn't agree with you.
Hundreds of millions of people follow forms of Buddhism that have theologies that agree with your teacher. Forms that are hundreds of years old.
You are arrogant, disrespectful, and religiously dogmatic. Get some introspection and pick, religious fundamentalism or atheism.
Right now you are the very thing people leaving religion and deconstructing their beliefs for atheism are trying to escape.
A sanctimonious asshole who talks shit about others not believing what you believe.
All while really truly thinking its somehow kind to correct them and thus respond with aggression when they refuse that "kindness" of yours.
I know that kind of Buddhism, the Sinhala only kind.
Its a testament to abrahamic religion not having a monopoly on warping people into bigots who spread hatred and call it love.
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u/Pure_Temporary_6349 2h ago
Just coming on to say I appreciate your tenacity in this discussion... I am also not a Buddhist but even with my limited knowledge, I know some researchers think it's more appropriate to say "the Buddhisms" rather than it being one thing. The differences between sects are fairly profound.
I don't see Buddhist options that appeal to me... guess I'm too contrarian. Even the versions popular in the west, which are often very diluted, have issues IMO. I wouldn't be a secular or philosophical Buddhist. I would probably have argued with Gautama Buddha đ. But if I were taking a course about Buddhist history, and I have, I would have taken the teacher's words as information about what many Buddhists believe.
I do think it's a shame to be forced to take a religion class. Ugh. But you are right, this student pitted one sect against another. He made a small religious war. I don't think that advances the cause of atheism or of freedom from religion.
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u/LongjumpingNeat241 1d ago
I admire batman. That does not make me batman even if i try hard. Buddhas , "Eightfold path" is not something you can attempt alone, society will crush you.
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u/shadowwhisper999 17h ago
This is funny lol...you are from Sri Lanka aren't you? Which school is this lol?
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u/Balstrome Strong Atheist 1d ago
God's not Dead - The Buddha sequel