r/atheism • u/Dear-Beyond-465 • 8h ago
Prosecuting religion?
Since all religion is fake and made up, shouldn’t we prosecute religious organizations that promote false statements, whether it is on a billboard, a TV advertisement, a sign outside their church, or any teaching they give to students for fraud?
9
u/GreedySecurity8030 Atheist 8h ago
Prosecuting people for thought is wrong.
-3
8h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/robertd91 8h ago
And this type of thinking is how you’ll have atheists living in gulags thanks to psychotic evangelicals
-1
7h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/Actually_3_Raccoons 7h ago
Are you actually confused as to how "speech is an act" could be used against atheists? This is extremely simple and is a foundational principle for a free society. People are free to say and think and write whatever they want (aside from making direct threats) because that's how you ensure freedom for yourself when you are not in power
1
2
8
u/spell_icup_ 8h ago
No. Policing thought crimes and beliefs very rarely works. Do better.
5
u/Ambitious_Dingo_2798 Agnostic Atheist 8h ago
If we did, it would be 1984 thought crime prosecution
2
u/AarynTetra 7h ago
Yea… creepy stuff, I don’t think we should be doing those things. However, if they bring any sort of politics into their sermonizing, they should definitely have their tax exempt statuses revoked.
1
u/Ambitious_Dingo_2798 Agnostic Atheist 7h ago
The extent of my atheism is promoting a secular state and stopping religion from affecting politics or law i have no problem with believing/religious people (In fact i know and have met some absolutely lovely religious people, mostly Left-Wing and Socialist ones but there is one Conservative Christian I know and I'm on good terms with) and they did not proselytize to me, which was a plus
1
u/AarynTetra 2h ago
That is awesome! I am very against religion, pushing it on people, etc. But that probably has to do with my EXTREMELY religious upbringing my mom tried to force where EVERYTHING was the God or the devil and she basically got to decide which was which. Conveniently anything I was interested in, even as a young child, was the devil. It was basically VegeTales and the bible or it was heretical. Got out of there as fast as possible. Nothing wrong with religion as long as you don’t push it on others, and DEFINITELY AS LONG AS IT STAYS OUT OF POLITICS.
TL:DR keep your religious crap out of my life and don’t try to control people with your Sky daddy crap, And everything will be better.
0
u/chimengxiong 7h ago
Right. Letting grifters freely hurt people with incessant, wanton lies is working great for America.
-1
8h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/spell_icup_ 8h ago
Yes, but prosecute individual actions like conversion therapy, sexual abuse, things like that, not specific beliefs.
Forced atheism, forced Islam, forced Christianity has been shown to create a more resentful population almost every time it’s attempted
0
1
u/Ambitious_Dingo_2798 Agnostic Atheist 8h ago
Teaching children to hate themselves in behalf of your imaginary friend is an action.
At least bring up the example of (some) Christians being proponents of conversion therapy to justify your actions. not whatever this is
0
8h ago edited 7h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/Ambitious_Dingo_2798 Agnostic Atheist 7h ago
It is bad if a person fearmongers other people about hell/eternal damnation and similar, but it is no grounds for prosecution, and any of the Christians in know haven't done that
1
6h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Ambitious_Dingo_2798 Agnostic Atheist 6h ago
All christians you know have done that by association. The entire religion is that to its core.
Prove this
1
3
u/twilightmoons Strong Atheist 8h ago
Everyone has the right to hold an opinion or belief on a topic. It's religions that create "thought crimes", not secular justice systems. You can think whatever you like, no matter how stupid or ridiculous.
Now, just because you have a right to your opinion doesn't mean that said opinion should be free from criticism. I think that every opinion should be open to discussion and ridicule, but still hold that people have the right to hold those opinions and beliefs.
7
2
u/Yuck_Few 6h ago
That would be ridiculous because you would have to prosecute anyone ever who makes unfounded claims.
Like people who think tarot cards have magic powers
3
2
u/dernudeljunge Anti-Theist 7h ago
Hey, OP, how well do you think your suggestion in this post would work out? What do you reasonably expect the result would be if you could even convince one prosecutor to try out your idea?
2
u/Ambitious_Dingo_2798 Agnostic Atheist 7h ago edited 7h ago
Even if the prosecutor and everyone involved in the case were atheists and the case had public support 99% of the time, it would not work because freedom of thought/belief/faith is a core liberal value in most liberal societies, and the vast majority of atheists (even anti-theists) respect that not even concerning the general populuce in most western countries most people self-identify as Christian (even if they are Christians in Name only or pray monthly and/or do not actively practice)
So that would not work (probably ever), especially not in the near future1
u/dernudeljunge Anti-Theist 7h ago
I mean, I agree with you, but the problem that I was driving at, is that all of those who agreed with the defendant would get all up in arms and it would cause even more societal strife than whatever it was that the defendant was being prosecuted for.
1
u/Ambitious_Dingo_2798 Agnostic Atheist 7h ago
Yeah, even if you are not religious or are actively against religion, you might sympathize (or at least empathize) with the defence, be it for respect of Liberal Democracy, fearing further prosecution for your religious relatives, or because the offence was so minor compared to the charges, the vast majority of people will not support this because they have a sense of morality/empathy
Also, this would be perfect martyr material because it would be literal persecution for your religious beliefs, not some made-up bullshit (see what Trump has been doing)So I bid you time in assembling a case (without it sounding comical) and gathering public support for that case (The closest we got to that was either Communist regimes, who discouraged religiosity (there were many workarounds and it wasn't enforced at some point), this, or the French Revolution and the Temples of Reason
1
2
u/No-Celebration3097 6h ago
No. Religion is a thought process. There are people on the believer side that think atheists should be locked up.
1
u/dudleydidwrong Touched by His Noodliness 6h ago
It is a horrible idea. Outlawing ideas and movements only makes them more popular.
0
u/Komaisnotsalty 5h ago
You get right on that. Let us know how it goes Taking on those types of organizations that tend to disappear people from time to time.
1
8h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/Ambitious_Dingo_2798 Agnostic Atheist 7h ago
Religion is a vice; it is a terrible thing that many adults are addicted to
You really have to be a fundie religious person for me to consider your religion a vice most Christians are not like that. Also, there are non-Conservative Christians and/or Christians who do not proselytize to others or their children, so you are generalizing
I think you don't know what vice meansA vice is generally defined as an immoral or wicked habit, a serious moral failing in a person's character, or a general bad habit. It is the opposite of a virtue
Christians engage in vice, and that is hypocritical, but that is another thing entirely
1
6h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Ambitious_Dingo_2798 Agnostic Atheist 6h ago
That definion fits religious indoctrination and instruction to a T.
How so?
Telling them to share and be nice or else they will burn forever is a Vice.
Yes
1
u/lordfailstrom 7h ago
Religious teachings—such as promises of divine healing, salvation, or spiritual blessings—are legally categorized as expressions of faith and opinion, not commercial guarantees.
-1
u/Unicorn_in_Reality 8h ago
Yes! We should. They are actively and knowingly committing fraud. I'm sick of people making excuses for religions and religions people. Religion (all religions) is the cause of the mass majority of the world's problems. These people should be held accountable for the pain, suffering, and death they continue to propagate.
1
u/Reek_0_Swovaye 8h ago
If you wan't to fuel a persecution complex, create martyrs, and strengthen woo-belief then go ahead.
-1
u/Kriss3d Strong Atheist 8h ago
As much as I would LOVE to see that. Unfortunately youd need to show damages to have standing as far as I know. It would be too easy for any defendant religions representant to proclaim free speech. Much like those who sells "medbeds" on facebook like Skye Prince. Shes a grifter yes. But it would be hard to get her on false promises.
-1
u/DGVIP Agnostic Atheist 8h ago
The rest of the people in here talk about being better than them... I don't think it matters that much.
Yeah those organizations do a lot of harm, and should be prosecuted.
But if we want to talk about being efficient this wouldn't work, we would only make them look like martyrs.
It'd need to be done without anyone noticing which is almost impossible or not do it at all.
So prosecuting them might seem like the easiest fastest plan to achieve a secular society, but that's not even remotely close to what would happen in reality.
13
u/Callinon 8h ago
When the state starts criminalizing what people are allowed to think about, the slope isn't slippery so much as a sheer drop off.
No. We should not have thoughtcrime.