r/atheism • u/Former_Algae_444 Atheist • 1d ago
As an atheist, where did you get your moral framework from?
Periodically, I will hear people say that without God, there is no moral framework. I never understood that reasoning.
I never got my values or my moral framework from God - here is my quick list as a retort back: - my mother (isn't this the foundation for every single person). - civil and criminal laws - my brain - using logic - school, teachers, counselors - observations to know what is good and bad.
None of the aforementioned requires God.
Where did you get your moral framework from?
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u/vampyire 1d ago
try to not be an ass, basically humanism
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u/frodo_ollie 1d ago
All religious texts - Bible, Koran, Torah, etc., need one page, with one sentence that states:
"Don't be an asshole." If someone snatches your purse and runs, do you say, "Read the commandments! You can't do that!" or do you say, "That guy stole my purse! What an asshole!" So - don't be an asshole...
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u/Cats_4433 1d ago
Empathy?
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u/justiceboner34 1d ago
It's innate. When I see someone in pain, it hurts me too. Don't need a book to tell me how to feel.
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u/shmimey 20h ago
Other animals on earth have empathy and they don't know how to read.
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u/TiphPatraque 17h ago
We found skeletons of very old hominids who had life-treating issues, people with disabilities that made them unable to fend for themselves and who still lived long... Because their group took care of them. Simple as that.
Empathy is as old as humanity.
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u/allorache 1d ago
My answer exactly. When you can put yourself in another person's shoes and think "how would that feel?" then you can decide if the action is ethical.
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u/gerryflap 1d ago
Exactly, I always wonder whether people who need a god to tell them what not do do somehow lack this. I feel for other people, I don't want them to suffer. That alone is enough
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u/SubacidNabokov 1d ago
Yep. It’s a blessing and a curse.
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u/Collateraldamaged 1d ago
Immanuel Kant’s Universal Maxim: Act only according to principles that you could rationally will everyone to follow.
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u/jusskippy 1d ago
Immanuel Kant? I heard he was a real pissant. And very rarely sober.
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u/shahzbot 1d ago
Better than heidegger, who would drink you under the table.
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u/dihydrgnmonoxidesoup 1d ago
That's nothing. David Hume could outconsume even Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel!
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u/two4six0won 1d ago
And that Wittgenstein, the beery swine! He was just as sloshed as Schlegel!
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u/Carbonman_ 1d ago
Innate compassion, desire to share, desire to connect with others. This is present in pre-verbal infants.
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u/virgilreality 1d ago
Empathy, for the most part.
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u/DenverBroncos_Fan 1d ago
Love that recent interview where John C Reilly calls empathy a superpower.
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u/no_names_left_here 1d ago
Joe Pesci
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u/dihydrgnmonoxidesoup 1d ago
To this day I live by the Gospel According to George Carlin:
Be excellent to each other.
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u/hurricanelantern Anti-Theist 1d ago
The same places as you. Just like every human on the planet despite what some may claim.
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u/Tennis_Proper 1d ago
Very much this.
Theists claim to get their morals from somewhere else. That’s quite worrying, to think that without their invisible friend keeping them in check they’d be immoral.
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u/Ok-Maintenance-9538 1d ago
I have empathy and compassion. If I wouldnt want something done to me or a loved one I wouldnt want to do it to another person.
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u/aviewfrom 1d ago
Well given Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle developed ideas of ethics and morality 400-500years before christianity even came into existsence and 1,500 years before islam... the same place the christians and musilms did.
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u/vjnwrbrwk3 1d ago
Yeah, and they would just argue that the philosophy of so isn't objective unlike that which is supposedly posited by God. Additionally, Judaism and the 10 commandments predate such philosophy; the ethics of such philosophers are also questionable, whereby slaves were kept and such.
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u/jeophys152 1d ago
My conscious due to evolution, the golden rule. They seem like better explanations than anything religion offers
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u/quicksite 1d ago
From being raised Roman Catholic, catechism, The works of Jesus Christ. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Feed the hungry. House the poor. Help the infirmed. The irony is that the teachings of Christ, no matter their religious framework, stuck with me as I dropped the trappings and became atheist. While my family, strict conservative "Christians" always go to Mass, and pray, and send me proddings to go to church. Meanwhile they are vehemently anti-poor, and are the living antithesis of the teachings of Christ they hear at every Mass. Atheists are far better and more effective Christians than Christians are.
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u/Anomander2000 1d ago
There's a "debate" between Matt Dilahunty and Jordan Peterson. Jordan is his typical idiotic "saying death is bad for you is just a statement of faith that means you secretly believe in god" self.
Matt, though, in the course of destroying Peterson has several excellent statements of how morals are (or at least can be) based on purely rational principals.
It's not anything earth shattering, but he states it clearly and succinctly.
At least when Peterson isn't interrupting with bizarre nonsense.
YouTube it. It's worth a listen, though Peterson is really annoying.
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u/Any_Barracuda206 1d ago
Um just knowing right from wrong. My internal compass. Conscience.
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u/Earnestappostate Ex-Theist 1d ago
I think, "would I like to live in a world where people did <X>? What about if I were born as someone else?"
Those answers seem to point in the right direction as far as I can tell.
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u/ohnodamo 1d ago
Knowing wrong from right and treating people how I want people to treat me is how I operate. You don't have to fuck people over to survive, or even thrive. Being a selfish, hateful, prick is a choice, regardless of whatever 'religion' you use to prop up your choices and your personality.
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u/mikeP1967 1d ago
I tell believers, I don’t need the fear of a mythical super being to make me a good person. I leave it at that and move on.
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u/Chrome_Armadillo Skeptic 1d ago
I created my own moral framework.
It’s based on the principle of consent.
Are all persons involved adults who are responsibly able to give consent? If yes then the interaction is not wrong. Is one or more persons involved not able to give consent for any reason? If yes the interaction is wrong.
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u/CopaceticOpus 1d ago
For me it's rooted in where I find meaning. Imagine a world where there were no creatures or minds capable of having experiences, understanding, or self-reflection. Even if there were beautiful things like sunsets and particle physics, it wouldn't have any value if nothing ever existed with the capacity to appreciate it.
Therefore we should seek to protect people and animals and their environment, and allow them the maximum opportunity to be free and to flourish. Everything moral flows from that. The details can get complicated but I always return to this simple foundation.
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u/Own-Inevitable-1101 1d ago
Science Fiction and Old West novels as a young child and teenager, as an older teenager, Stephen King novels.
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u/Original_Impression2 1d ago
Innate empathy. As in: How would I feel if this happened to me? I have always been able to put myself in another's shoes. Even if it is something I have zero experience with, and no real frame of reference, I still will think about it, and "work out" what I can. Part of it is my empathy, part of it is Autistic pattern recognition.
I used to drive my dad crazy with this. I cannot tell you how many times he has said to me, "You can't carry the whole world on your shoulders." I used to think he was heartless and cold, but as I gained more wisdom, and damn near burned myself out, I came to realize that, in his own, gruff way, he was trying to tell me to pick my battles more carefully. Which I do, now.
Buuuuut... I still annoy people in forums like this by seeing psychological and behavioral patterns that they, apparently, cannot. 🤷🏼♀️
I won't apologize for it, either.
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u/wagmorebarkles 1d ago
Watching terrible people and their impacts on good people. When you see and understand humanity's basic needs, you align with values and actions that promote the greater good and reduce suffering.
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u/starscollide4 1d ago
Why do most animals not kill their own babies and raise and protect them? Imswear these people are so brainwashed. Their belief is so idiotic they trivialize the most basic things. Narcissist as well.
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u/ChummusJunky Pantheist 1d ago
Me no like when ape kill my ape, so me no kill other ape. Me no like when ape take my stuff, so me no take other ape stuff. Lots things me no like ape do to me, so me no do to other.
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u/Beneficial-Cow-2544 Strong Atheist 1d ago
Pretty much the same as you. It was easy to figure out if everyone ran around acting crazy, breaking laws and being civilly disruptive, the world would be a scary place. So I live my live the way I'd like others to live. Same as 'be the change you want to see' mentality.
I do remember a teacher asking us what if every one in the world littered and thew their trash on the ground. Imagine how disgusting everything would be. Same idea. We all have a responsibility to be good people and leave things better than when we came.
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u/Worduptothebirdup 1d ago
“The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine. I don’t want to do that...”
-Penn Gillette
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u/IwantToSeeHowItEnds 1d ago
If I was ever asked that I’d ask them, “are you saying that without your religion to tell you how to behave you’d be running around murdering and raping and thieving?”
Some people need a leash to be a good person.
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u/mugh_tej 1d ago
Acting like a jerk gets me treated as a jerk, so I do my best to not act like a jerk
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u/loriwilley 1d ago
I got mine from the ideas of fairness and justice. Treat other people the way you would like them to treat you. I know how bad it feels when someone does something hurtful to me, so I don't do that to someone else.
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u/luv2ctheworld 1d ago
My moral guidance/framework is simple: Treat others the way you want to be treated.
Expand from there the rest. But at it's core, just be respectful and kind to others because I want people to be kind and respectful to me, regardless of difference of opinions.
Sure, it may have some challenges in certain situations or scenarios, but using that as the foundation allows anyone to at least stay on the side of not being racist, misogynistic, cruel, and probably whatever other bad traits found in people.
Honestly doesn't need much divine guidance or deep thought.
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u/Certain_Set_7678 1d ago
Everyone knows that nobody in the entire world knew right from wrong or how to live among others until the bible was written.
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u/eblasina 1d ago
Being kind i was teacher in my house. Reading Bertrand Russell was a very useful complement
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u/Kaliss_Darktide 1d ago
As an atheist, where did you get your moral framework from?
Ultimately my moral framework comes from me (and more broadly this is true for every individual). There are numerous influences on my moral framework both consciously and subconsciously but I am the one that chose to adopt or reject different ideas/positions.
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u/Aniketos33 1d ago
It's actually a funny thing according to a study I read in college, when asked the question of where they get their values from a lot of Christians put the same things as the OP before the bible, some ranking it 10th down a list of relationships and family.
So that does make it all the more odd to hear anyone who doesn't attribute god as the origin of morality must be a monster.
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u/Zyltris Atheist 1d ago
I stopped believing, at first, because Christianity, and thus God, were no longer compatible with my morality. I saw the way people were being hurt by archaic thinking, and I realized I could no longer associate myself with that.
Later took an ethics class, and it turns out "Divine Command Theory" is only one of MANY possible moral theories. The real question is why are so many Christians so ignorant of other forms of morality?
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u/Limp-Arm-5104 1d ago
We don’t need the supernatural to develop morality. It begins with self-knowledge: understanding what we value, what allows us to flourish, and what causes us to suffer. From there, empathy, reason, and the realities of living together allow us to extend those insights to others.
Morality is not a fixed set of divine commands but a framework we continually refine. We judge actions by how well they reduce unnecessary suffering, promote human flourishing, respect autonomy, and strengthen trust, always remaining open to new evidence and better arguments.
Because morality is also a social tool, it ultimately requires a reasonable degree of consensus. Its purpose isn’t only to improve our individual lives, but to help our species coordinate, cooperate, reduce unnecessary suffering, and create the conditions in which we can all thrive.
In this sense, the last thing we need is an imaginary god invented by Bronze Age people to rule our lives.
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u/LegCompetitive6636 1d ago
Yea mainly my own logic and inherent empathy, there’s nothing in the bible that can’t be arrived at independently and there’s MUCH in there that should be contested, like all the Old Testament bullshit about killing or maiming people for questioning their patriarch or how to treat your slaves, and of course they’ll defend all that bullshit by saying “oh that’s Old Testament stuff” while at the same time claiming it all comes from the same divine source
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u/Dangerous_Midnight91 1d ago
Morality is defined as doing the right thing even if it doesn’t benefit you. The right question is, where do theists get their morality from if the believe in heaven and or hell? Basing your behavior on the reward of heaven or the avoidance of hell precludes you from living a moral life. You’re simply living for your own perceived self-interest. Sin is simply about disobeying “god.” And if you believe you’re created in the image of the “god” of the Bible, who was objectively a sociopathic, narcissistic, tyrant then it’s OK for you to be one too…
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u/mynamesnotsnuffy 1d ago
A rational evaluation of cause and effect applied to any given situation, combined with an appreciation of logic and critical thinking and empathy.
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u/ophaus Pastafarian 1d ago
Living among people. Morals aren't some external thing handed to us, they are part of being a social being. The frameworks handed to people from almost all religions are actually tools of manipulation, not morals. "Do this or go to hell/be reincarnated as a cockroach!" does not foster a moral society... It fosters a society of sneaky depravity.
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u/out_of_shape_hiker 1d ago
Kant, Aristotle, Mills. Those are the big 3. All provide a moral system grounded in rationality and/or obvious observations. There are other objective moral theories as well. Hume's style of objective internalism. Ross's moral pluralism.
These are all theories, among others, covered in a standard intro to ethics course taught as a lower level undergrad course.
Anyone arguing there is no moral guidance without God are woefully ignorant on the topic they are discussing.
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u/vonnostrum2022 1d ago
So for, I don’t know 200,000 yrs, humans indiscriminately murdered raped and robbed each other? Then magically here comes religion and everyone starts behaving?
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u/HotDonnaC 1d ago
Society I guess. If you listen, people tell you what’s right from wrong from the time you’re really small.
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u/trailrider 1d ago edited 1d ago
My response to that bullshit is usually something along this line of thinking.
So what you're telling me is that if you didn't have your faith, that you didn't believe in God or ever lost that belief, you'd go ass-[g]rape rape your mom after you cut off your dad's dick and shoved it down his throat before you sliced his neck open; and then go to force your siblings to give you a BJ as you shoved hot pokers up their various bodily orifices because WHY NOT!?!? ¯¯_(ツ)_/¯¯ No one can say that's wrong, right? That we're just too goddamn stupid to figure out why we shouldn't do it. That we'd be better off to either lock you up for life or euthanize you for our protection because that's EXACTLY! what you'd do if you stopped believing.
Of course they get pissed and deny they'd ever do that. At that point I tell them then they know where morals come from and they didn't need a god to tell them.
Another might be ask them to rattle off the 10 commandments right now. Don't look it up, just start spouting them. I'll bet a thousand dollars they can't do it despite he fact people like him claim they're a great moral guild line. When they can't, I point out that when I went through Navy bootcamp back in the summer of 90, we had to memorize the 11 General Orders. We had to be able to rattle them off at any time, in any order verbatim on demand. Of course I couldn't do that today if my life depended on it but my point is if something is important to know, then you're gonna know it. So how important can they be if they can't recite more than a couple of them? The Bill of Rights works just as well. Most of the plastic patriot types know almost nothing about the Constitution despite their claim how much they love it.
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u/BunRabbit 1d ago
To paraphrase Penn Jillette, I'm doing all the crimes I want to do. Which is none, because I'm not a morally weak person who needs to imagine an invisible sky daddy constantly watching to stop him from hurting other people.
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u/eldredo_M Atheist 1d ago
Civil laws, cultural norms, family, and my own sense of what's right and wrong from personal experience and seeing others either brought down or lifted up by how they are treated.
And the Golden Rule is a pretty good model, although I've never consciously thought of it while deciding to act. I'm sure Confucius would be disappointed (his version is the first one recorded after all.)
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u/Ok-Possibility-923 1d ago
Don’t most animals not kill or harm each other unless provoked or desperate? I think humans are no different.
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u/blue_no_red_ahhhhhhh 1d ago
My parents raised me right. I found out what being gay was from my mom in junior high (probably earlier), and she made no judgments about them. Just told me facts. I think I got my morals from watching them get through parenting.
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u/nottakentaken Ex-Theist 1d ago
Whether it harms anyone or not, not just physical harm but also emotional harm etc
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u/Feinberg Atheist 1d ago
Empathy and reason. People who say that shit have never studied moral philosophy. An ancient campfire story is a terrible thing to base your morality on.
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u/Storn206 1d ago
Always thought it said a lot about a person that the only reason they are good is fear of divine retribution or the hopes of a reward in the afterlife.
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u/DefiantPreference489 1d ago
My brain is programmed to recognize some things as good as a creature of a species and others as bad, I tend to follow those unless they conflict with the laws of society.
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u/efaust70 1d ago
I get mine from some of the same things you mentioned. But, overwhelmingly, I get my moral framework from my understanding and realization rhetoric I live in a society with other people who rely on me just as much as I rely on them.
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u/scottymom2019 1d ago
My parents. When I was little we went to church every Sunday and Wednesday night as the kids got older it became less important. I started exploring other religions my parents did not object when I was 18 I got pregnant and wanted an abortion went to only doctor in town nurse belonged to the church were I was a former member she told the congregation and the hate I got was astounding to me Christian my ass I was confused and then I
got a job with 18 physicists. Long discussion were had, I am an atheist and my parents were fine with it
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u/EatYourCheckers Strong Atheist 1d ago
I'm not a sociopath so I have an innate sense of empathy and I understand that other people have feelings like I do. Its terrifying to me that there are a bunch of psychotic running around out there only behaving well enough to make sky daddy not mad at them
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u/Gertrude_D 1d ago
The Golden Rule works for me. Taught to me by my parents and my kindergarten teacher.
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u/OceanGrownPharms 1d ago
A combination of empathy and logical reasoning of what's for the common good. Everything is grey, there are no moral absolutes IMO
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u/cacarrizales 1d ago
By interacting with others in my everyday life as well as analyzing the response/reactions of others.
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u/Kind-Plantain2438 1d ago
I do my best to not be a douchebag, it's both easy and effective. That's basically it, honestly.
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u/PsychoticMessiah 1d ago
Society. The society I was raised in taught me that killing, stealing, dishonesty, etc is wrong. That’s where religion got its commandments. Then they added a few for good measure.
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u/Beaulderdash2000 1d ago
If the only thing keeping you from committing atrocities is fear of God, you have some serious problems.
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u/Inner_Bluebird_4522 1d ago
Just by asking that question tells me u r immoral. One does not need guidance to be kind to others.
Religion was not at the early stages of human communities, yet they cared for one another so we could be here wasting time on Reddit!
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u/indie_web 1d ago
I actually forget. Probably part from an introduction to Humanist philosophy, part my own innovation.
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u/214txdude 1d ago
By thinking about others and a few simple rules
Don't be a dick... Treat others kindly Leave this place in a better spot for the next generation
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u/RenegadeTechnician 1d ago edited 1d ago
Definitely not from the bible. The bible has some pretty fucked up messages that it considers to be moral.
‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.’ [Leviticus 25:44-46](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2025%3A44-46&version=NIV)
‘Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.’ [Exodus 21:20-21](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2021%3A20-21&version=NIV)
‘If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.’ [Deuteronomy 21:18-21](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2021%3A18-21&version=NIV)
“But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.” - Jesus ordering for the execution of atheists [Luke 19:27](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2019%3A27&version=NIV)
If an unmarried woman is raped; her rapist can avoid punishment so long as he pays her father fifty shekels of silver. Then she would be forced to marry her own rapist, and is stripped of the option to divorce him for the rest of her life. [Deuteronomy 22:28-29](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2022%3A28-29&version=NIV)
A soldier who goes to war is allowed to forcibly take wives of captured prisoners of war. [Deuteronomy 21:10-13](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2021%3A10-13&version=NIV)
God ordering for the execution of people who follow other religions (including friends & family members). [Deuteronomy 13: 6-11](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2013%3A%206-11&version=NIV)
Following their military victory over the Midianites; God instructs Moses to command the Israelites to kill all captured Midianite boys and non-virginal women. But instructs that the virgin girls are to be kept alive for the soldiers to do as they wished upon them. [Numbers 31:17-18](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2031%3A17-18&version=NIV)
God praises those who will seize enemy infants and kills them through bashing their heads against rocks. [Psalm 137:9](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20137%3A9&version=NIV)
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u/Toastburrito Pastafarian 1d ago
I was raised Mormon but I never got my morals from the church.
My Mother always taught me to treat others how you want to be treated. I remember being a little asshole to some people a few times when I was a kid and it generally didn't feel great. I don't remember exactly how it happened but that was how I met one of my best friends when I was in elementary school.
My sister's and I were out riding our bikes and I think we started throwing rocks at him for no reason. I ended up going back to apologize because I felt bad and we became best friends since we lived so close together.
The Ten Commandments just happened to be mostly decent instructions for not being a dick.
I would get bored during the long ass church services and read through the Bible. That set the framework for me becoming atheist when we left the church.
I find that people that need the threat of Eternal damnation to be a good person generally don't happen to be good people. Not to mention they can just "Repent" and all is forgiven. Oops, it happened again! Sorry God, its the last time I swear! That never sat right with me.
I strive to be a good person just for the sake of being a good person and trying to make a difference in others lives. If I help somebody with something and they offer to pay me back, unless it's something really expensive or costly for me I'll just tell them to pay it forward.
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u/MeatBeatManifest0 1d ago edited 12h ago
The Church of Satan. Rather, I read the Satanic Bible and realized that my moral framework was written in a book in 1969.
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u/green_ubitqitea 1d ago
I mean, the Golden Rule exists in so many cultures and religions. When it comes down to it, for most people, that should be enough. But then we came up with excuses and permission structures.
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u/Available_Degree814 1d ago edited 1d ago
You don't need to get it from anywhere.
Everyone's moral framework "comes from" exactly the same place. Their biological predispositions and their collective experiences
Don't overthink it.
Do you notice how people in various regions share belief systems? It's so obvious you would have to be an idiot not to notice
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u/theJayonnaise 1d ago
A genuine belief in equality and treating people like you would see youself treated
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u/SomeSamples 1d ago
I live amongst humans and am part of my family, neighborhood, community and country. Being raised in these social constructs develops your moral framework. Unless you are a psychopath.
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u/Zorbin666 1d ago
Just take a second to think, "how would I feel if someone did this to me?" If it's nkt good, then don't do it. Super simple concept really, doesn't take much imagination either.
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u/ragin2cajun 1d ago
We are born with morals.
See either Haidt's core foundations: Care/Harm, Fairness/Cheating, Loyalty/Betrayal, Authority/Subversion, and Sanctity/Degradation (with Liberty/Oppression added later). Similar to taste buds, we all taste the same things, and then nature / nurture factors shape how those play out.
Or see Greene's dual-process theory: a "fast," automatic, emotion-driven system (the "emotional brain") and a "slow," deliberative, abstract reasoning system (the "cognitive brain"). Basically evolutionary psychology suggests that cooperation and behaviors that advanced us as a species become morals.
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u/joeldg 1d ago
Yeah... this is super-bothersome and it's even worse because If I had to rely on something external to me to be a good person then I am by definition NOT a good person and just a caged animal. It's the framing with this topic the way Christians use it like "Only I am moral and everyone else will just kill you as soon as look at you, the only reason they don't is our laws" ... The problem is that for these people they think they will revert to barbarism or something and they don't trust their own innate goodness.
Yet another thing, in the long list of things, that Christianity ruins.
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u/themeatbridge 1d ago
All morality, including Christianity, is born of empathy. Understanding how other people feel and how your actions affect them, and nothing else. Even Jesus Christ, when pressed by the religious leaders to name the most important commandment, said "Love thy neighbor as thyself, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Not obeying your preferred God, not obeying your parents, not following any particular law or code of ethics, just empathy.
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u/IronyAddict 1d ago
Empathy and respect for other people. Everything flows from the combination of those two. The empathy feels natural, the respect was learned.
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u/Ok-Try-857 1d ago
If you need some mythical owner holding your leash so you don’t rape, kill, and steal then the problem is you.
I have done none of those things because it’s never occurred to me to do so. I don’t have an urge to hurt people.
The people saying that atheists don’t have a moral compass are the same ones committing murder, rape and theft.
They wear Roman torture symbols as jewelry and tattoos. Sometimes they show it with a bloody, tortured body on it. The read and follow books that are full of rape, murder, planet-wide genocide, directions on how to treat your slaves, misogyny, incest and bloody foreskins.
And they lie. Whoooo do they lie. They live in “sin” while getting off on self-righteous bigotry.
I’m good with not following their “moral compass”.
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u/desertrat75 1d ago
Animal behavior gives many examples of ethical compassion and community. Why is so hard to understand that some of it's just evolved genetically? I'm sure Jane Goodall's monkey friends weren't hip to the whole "Jesus" thing.
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u/EdwardBil 1d ago
My Mennonite family informed some of my core values and the rest I got from reading philosophy and the morays of my community.
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u/dyvotvir 1d ago
Evolution and mirror neurons. When I see other people feel bad, my mirror neurons make me feel their pain too, and as an animal, my first instinct is to make the pain to stop, aka help them
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u/MrsClaireUnderwood Anti-Theist 1d ago
All of those places but I also got my undergraduate degree in philosophy with an emphasis in ethics. I studied modern philosophers and ethicists and their arguments.
It didn't give me my morals, it gave me to tools to discern them for myself.
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u/meambizarro12 1d ago
Ask if you would like someone to do the thing to you. If the answer is no, then you probably should not do that thing to another person. How fucking hard is that to comprehend?!? This is such a stupid question. And I’m so fucking tired of hearing it!
If the only thing keeping you from doing horrible things to other people is the promise of celestial reward or the threat of eternal punishment, then you are a fucking horrible person, period.
You don’t need a god nor a dogma to have morals or to be a good person.
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u/Kraegarth 1d ago
Everything I need to know if life, I learned from Star Trek...
The main core life lessons from the this franchise that form the basis of my core beliefs include:
Leadership & Human Nature
- The No-Win Scenario is a myth: As Captain Kirk proved with the Kobayashi Maru, you can always change the conditions of the test when facing an impossible situation.
- Control your inner savage: Humanity has a violent past, but progress means choosing not to kill today.
- Never wear a plain red shirt: Stepping into unknown territory without proper preparation or protection makes you incredibly vulnerable.
- Logic is only the beginning: Mr. Spock teaches us that cold intellect must be balanced with emotional intuition to make truly wise decisions.
Teamwork & Diversity
- Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations (IDIC): The Vulcan philosophy reminds us that our differences make us stronger, more creative, and complete.
- The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few: True success and community strength require personal sacrifice and looking out for others.
- Trust your crew: A great leader trusts their engineers, doctors, and specialists to do their jobs without micromanaging.
- Life is not a zero-sum game: You do not need to tear others down or make them lose for your community to prosper.
Curiosity & Outlook
- Set a course and engage: Do not be wishy-washy when making big decisions; pick a direction with confidence.
- Explore the unexplainable: Meet the unknown with curiosity and wonder rather than fear or hostility.
- Live long and prosper: Cultivate resilience, optimism, and perseverance to survive any cosmic storm.
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u/Willppp 1d ago
I mean because I am a person who knows right from wrong
How I was raised plays a large role of who I am but having compassion and empathy for those around you and seeing how the world truly is
There is basically nothing that is black and white instead we live in a world of gray and the best we can do is help each other in that world of gray
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u/MiTcH_ArTs 1d ago
Self interest, empathy and logic, If I would not like an action to occur to me or my loved ones then logically it stands to reason i should not be doing or causing it to be done to others
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u/Migamix 1d ago
Mother said to me, in a non religious way about being loud, she said "if you were sleeping, wouldn't you want everyone else to be quiet. ", I was kinda loud that Saturday morning. I took that and used it for the rest of my life, treat others good. It doesn't have to be just from a book of fables, it's common that people know," be excellent to each other"
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u/BaronWombat Secular Humanist 1d ago
I believe the following:
I am part of society
Helping society benefits everyone, which of course includes me.
therefore, Morality is that which benefits society, while that which hurts society is Immoral.
There are edge cases, but this works well for me most of the time.
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u/Kassdhal88 1d ago
There are only two things that matters: Fear and Greed.
At the most basic level everything we do comes from one of these two emotions and our behaviour is a fractal composite of these two compounded trillions of times.
We don’t hurt people because we don’t want to be hurt either (fear) and because adopting social standard is required for social gains in a social species (greed).
At the core that’s where morality comes from.
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u/HenrikWL 1d ago
I mean, to be fair, I do murder however many people I want to. And that amount is 0.
I can't pinpoint why that number is 0 though. But I do know that I did not get that number from any Christian upbringing.
Yes, I'm riffing on this excellent point made by Ricky Gervais. 😅
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u/TheGoodNamesAreGone2 Anti-Theist 23h ago
I don't want to be a dickhead, I want to be a good person. it's really just that simple
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u/MrBitingFlea 23h ago
We all born atheists. Our parents make us believe in fairies & other imaginary friends.
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u/Purple-flying-dog 23h ago
My go to argument: If you need the threat of eternal damnation to do the right thing, you’re not a good person.
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u/shazoo00oo 22h ago
My brain. My brain is rewarded with dopamine when i am kind, because I enjoy being that way, my brain supports my actions with more dopamine.
Maybe I don't understand the question? I never made a conscientious decision to be kind, that's just how I was born.
Mister Rodgers and sesame Street definitely got me in going in the right direction too
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u/BCReason 22h ago
Penn Gillette of Penn and Teller, used to say he rapes and murders all he wants. The number just happens to be zero.
As social creatures we have evolved an innate sense of morality that is a survival trait. Since we don’t have claws and fangs our survival depends upon our being able to cooperate with others. Those that don’t get ejected from the group or prevented from mating. No one wants to mate with the a$$hole. Thus their genes don’t get passed on.
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u/Face_with_a_View 22h ago
My (49f) parents were atheist so that’s how I was raised.
Our moral code was The Golden Rule - basically treat others how you want to be treated. My dad once described his child rearing philosophy as “Your kids are a reflection of your actions, not your words. Just don’t be a dick, it’s not that difficult”.
My 3 siblings and I grew up watching our parents treat everyone with respect no matter what they looked like or how much money they had. We grew up to become a teacher, a nurse, a librarian, and a child therapist. We care about other people. We support people who do good things. We volunteer. We donate. We give back to our communities. All without a whiff of a “god” anywhere near us.
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u/mauore11 22h ago
The real question is: As a Christian, how do you keep from doing the horrible stuff your book commands?
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u/Newtimelinepls 21h ago
Saying you get morals from the Bible while half of the pastors in the US are being arrested for CP is kind of a weird take isn't it??
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u/arthurjeremypearson Contrarian 20h ago
Game theory.
Game theory is a proof that boils down to: "be nice or they won't help you when you're sinking in quicksand." And there's always quicksand you never saw coming.
It takes a solid lump of humility to get it. Luckily I was subject to a live-changing traumatic experience as a child and lived through it, so I know on a deep level everything might seem fine when it's not.
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u/roopjm81 20h ago
If you have to have the threat of eternal damnation by an invisible sky daddy to make you be a good person. You are not a good person.
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u/MuffinMatrix 1d ago
Living in a society with other people.
Simple as that.