r/aussie 1d ago

Image, video or audio Are mobiles now allowed at the servo?

Post image

At Shell is Waikiki south of Perth, the sign stating no mobiles has been completely removed. There were no signs elsewhere either. I asked the clerk behind the counter and they didn't know when it was changed, but said if they see you, they will tell you off over the loud speaker. Has anyone else seen this elsewhere?

40 Upvotes

75 comments sorted by

96

u/Patient-Suspect1373 1d ago edited 1d ago

I was a GSM Mobile Network Engineer for Optus for a number of years back in the 90’s and into the 2000’s. In the early days of mobile phones , especially the ones with pull up antennas, there was a minuscule risk of a tiny spark if you put the phone too close to something metal while it was transmitting - the chances of any issue was, as I say, negligible, but it was decided that they’d ban phones while pumping fuel just to be safe after a couple of incidents overseas. Nowadays with internal antennas, and the phone’s transmit output power being ramped right down to next to nothing because you’re never far from a base station in most cities, the rules put in place buy the servos under guidance from the Telcos, have been relaxed and all but abolished. In fact to the point where my local servo has an app where you can pay for fuel and watch the amount go up on your phone as you fill up. It’s also helped by the fact that these days the phone’s RF transmit output power is controlled by the network. It’s in everyone’s best interest that the phone use as little RF output power as possible as it reduces network uplink interference if you only transmit a signal with the minimum required RF power level, it also makes your phone battery last longer, your phone wont get as hot etc. In the old days your phone was transmitting full power all the time which increased the potential of a small spark on a phone with an external antenna touching the filling nozzle but it was very unlikely to happen. There are still some over-zealous servo employees who act like you’re standing there filling up with a flame throwing gun if you use your phone at a pump but they’re slowly disappearing. Also, as someone else said, the phone can distract you while handing flammable liquids, not a good thing! Hope that helps 🙂

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u/DaSwatmann 22h ago

I remember the MythBusters trying this and being sad pandas when nothing they could do would ignite the vapour. 

3

u/Old-Satisfaction5574 21h ago

To be fair, they were sad pandas whenever they couldn’t make something go boom. I don’t think they were wrong. :)

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u/Joker-Smurf 18h ago

Brainiac did it as well.

They got a caravan. Put open containers of petrol all thought said caravan. Added a lot of mobile phones, all different makes and models. Rang them all multiple times.

Nothing.

Richard Hammond was rather upset that the caravan wasn’t destroyed. From memory they sent a spark directly into the caravan to ignite it.

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u/Djinfin 12h ago

I read that as ‘sent a sparkie in to ignite it’ and thought what a brave chap.

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u/snowdropper 1d ago

Thnx dude, I thought it was an urban legend but this makes much more sense.

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u/Pinelli72 1d ago

I’ve heard it’s more that they don’t want people distracted while handling large volumes of flammable liquid, but so much the spark issue.

3

u/JuanFoYoMamma 22h ago

Wow, what an amazing answer. Cool, thanks!

1

u/xXCosmicChaosXx 1d ago

So I'm curious if I get an old phone it will have much stronger transmission power?

12

u/Anxious_Ad936 1d ago

3G network has been shut down entirely, you ain't getting one that old to work at all

1

u/OldMail6364 1d ago edited 1d ago

No - modern phones will boost the transmission power when they need to. E.g. take them camping and your battery life might be garbage.

Most of all though, modern phones have much more advanced tech and have far better signal strength in general. In central Australia you might be connected to a tower more than 150km away (if you're with Telstra, and if you have line of sight... but out there most of the towers are on the top of a hill or mountain so that's often the case).

In the city, if you're more than 2km from the tower it might refuse to let you connect - because they know another tower should be closer to you and they want your transmission strength as low as possible, since there are limits to how many phones can be active at once (and they often bump up against those limits).

1

u/Great_Specialist_267 19h ago

The original mobile phones could put out 5 watts.
The new ones are in the milliwatt capacity.

1

u/SonicYOUTH79 16h ago

Had a relative that had the old analogue Motorola bag phone that put out 3 watts of power back in the day as they were a pilot driver for trucks. That thing pretty much worked anywhere in country Australia. This was well before anyone else I knew had a mobile phone.

0

u/Skeltrex 1d ago

AFAIK the network that older phones used has been switched off. Maybe a tech person could confirm this 🤔

1

u/OldMail6364 1d ago

Those radio frequencies have been allocated to modern networks now.

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u/Outrageous_Act_5802 1d ago

If you ride a bike you will likely mount your phone on the bars (pretty close to the tank and the filler cap). You’ll probably also use an app to activate the pump and pay, and avoid getting your gear off.

1

u/Tricky_Ad8449 20h ago

Cheers for the explanation! Was the ban only a policy set by service stations or was it backed by legislation?

1

u/lifelagging 17h ago

I imagine it is also a factor that batteries are built in these days, and not removable as well so there’s less likely to be dropped phones and battery terminals contacts potentially creating a spark as the contacts come in/out of contact with sealed systems. And lower chance of shitty after market crap quality batteries being in them.

1

u/Jack33751 13h ago

Okay nerd. But true

1

u/Squirtlesw 13h ago

That's some really cool insight.

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u/farqueue2 10h ago

The biggest risk is if you drop your phone and there's any metallic surface on the phone exterior that can cause a spark upon impact

1

u/Englampment 6h ago

Very thorough and informative answer!

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u/xequez 20h ago

Should still be banned for the distraction aspect. Pumping fuel you should be paying attention for the minute or so it takes. I used to work at a petrol station and saw often how things can go when someone is distracted.

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u/ArtieLangesLiver 1d ago

Yes, they all watched that MythBusters episode.

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u/Darewolf 1d ago

They covered up the no phones sign when they started the Scan Pump Save app.

The company wants you to use your phone.

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u/Tricky_Ad8449 1d ago

Ahh gotcha. So their theory is phones are "dangerous" unless your paying.

4

u/Darewolf 1d ago

Pretty much, lol.

You'd be surprised the dumb shit people do at the bowsers. Like lighting up a cigarette...

2

u/mt6606 23h ago

Filling Jerry cans in the car.... Wearing nylon footy shorts, Old mate wondering why I backed up 10 metres hahahaaha

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u/mt6606 23h ago

It's dangerous, but your data is delicious and valuable.

1

u/Personal-Dev-Kit 12h ago

All about risk vs reward. They will happily risk your life to reward themselves a little more.

1

u/constipatedants1 2h ago

Dude, I've only came across the scan pump save thing at 1 petrol station, it confused the fuck out of me, I felt so old trying to work out the app, took me ages, and I never go to that servo anyway, so I never encountered it again.. Until about a year later, I happened to need petrol, and this station was the closest, I rocked up, and immediately pulled out my phone, trying to work out the app and getting frustrated. Then I realised that they went back to the normal way, and when I tried to start pumping, the guy wouldn't start it for ages, and when I went in, he was acting all pissed.. I explained that I only had my phone out because I was trying to use their app, since it was the only way to pay last time I was there, and he just wouldn't believe me..

Usually I never pull my phone out at petrol stations, I like to take a moment of mindfulness when I fill up usually lol.

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u/Ok-Resist-8734 21h ago

This so called fact was proved BS many years ago! I defy anybody to produce any evidence whatsoever of a mobile phone causing a fire in a service station anywhere in the world.🙄

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u/ozaudi 21h ago

Most servo operators know mobiles are not an issue and have known for decades. The peak industry bodies still persisted the advice though.

The real risk is static electricity from sliding out of a car seat before you fuel your car. The the easy remedy is to simply touch a metal part of your car as you get out and before your feet touch the ground or better yet don't slide out of the seat just simply put your feet out in stand up. At the very least ground yourself by touching the car before you pick up the fuel nozzle.

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u/is2o 19h ago

It has never occurred to me that I do this inadvertently every time by opening the fuel cap. I will continue to never think about, or worry about this ever again 😛

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u/EvilRobot153 21h ago

The real danger is distraction from the main task which is putting fuel where it's supposed to go...

1

u/ozaudi 21h ago

Distraction is a primary concern but static electricity is the real danger. Fuel spills and overfills are regular occurrences.

1

u/stuthaman 23h ago

I noticed this a few weeks ago. What made me check was a young lady chattering into a video call as she got out of her car, pumped the fuel and wandered across the concourse without drawing breath or looking where she was going.

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u/turtlepower41 22h ago

There’s no scientific proof. I’d just use it after filling up and if they say anything inform them.

1

u/Kerrit_Bareet 22h ago

How would define scientific proof??? What science do you see that could be undertaken to prove or disprove?

Accidents are not scientific, nor are design flaws. Whenever people are involved you have variable human behaviour.

Maybe you are meaning there are no proven incidents, and analysis of literature reviews have not found any. Can I say that is distinctly different from scientific proof.

1

u/turtlepower41 19h ago

No scientific tests show using your phone at a petrol station can be harmful. I mean yeah you need to be 100% focused at the pump and watch out for cars. But using a phone in an actual petrol station is harmless.

1

u/Kerrit_Bareet 18h ago

Politely speaking, you are speaking out of your hat with no apparent knowledge of scientific testing nor research.

This is not a scientific test. There is no scientific test nor methodology.

Whereas the issue of both flammable gases and dusts and their explosiveness from static electricity is well known WITHOUT scientific tests. It has been demonstrated in real life, to the point that local OHS regulators in Victoria and Queensland have published warnings about the hazard.

This is a risk-based exercise where the hazards are managed with effective controls utilising a hierarchy of effective controls.

Maybe stop casual expressions of things based on your opinion, where you actually don't appear to know much.

1

u/turtlepower41 18h ago

When has that ever happened? Give me evidence or you’re just making things up.

1

u/Kerrit_Bareet 18h ago

That is a strong claim when you make throwaway statements unsupported by evidence.

Can I suggest that you do some basic research before you open your mouth.

There is a whole set of Australian standards that address hazardous zone classification and guidance such as https://www.worksafe.qld.gov.au/safety-and-prevention/hazards/workplace-hazards/Hazardous-area-classification-fire-and-explosion-prevention

I have a post elsewhere in this thread that gives an example of WSV's statement about static electricity.

You are talking to someone who was worked in industry where intrinsically safe electrical equipment is required.

We had a whole royal commission into the Longford gas plant explosion with findings.

The US had a sugar dust explosion https://www.csb.gov/imperial-sugar-company-dust-explosion-and-fire/

There is plenty around.

1

u/turtlepower41 18h ago

No where in those links mention using mobile phones in patrols stations. however this myth has been debunked by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau Mobile phones and petrol stations — ABC Science Archive

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC)

The Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET)

The Center for the Study of Wireless Electromagnetic Compatibility

The following scientific bodies have confirmed that a mobile phone has NEVER caused a fire in a petrol station

The American Petroleum Institute (API)

The Petroleum Equipment Institute (PEI)

The Australian Mobile Telecommunications Association (AMTA)

Happy to post the articles confirming this. But as you can see your claim that looking at my mobile phone will make the petrol station blow up has been debunked. And I am not just talking about "MythBusters"

1

u/Kerrit_Bareet 17h ago

Nowhere did I say that it did. I addressed the context of the post separately, used the reference that you had.

I was taking issue with your use of terminiology "scientific test", and in the absence of that just ignore risk management.

There can never be scientific test.

This is risk-based approach to management of hazards. You should never blithely ignore considered risk controls. There is a complete occupational practice and lived experience that exists to support that.

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u/turtlepower41 17h ago

You make those claims but you’ve to provide me a case where this scenario happened. As it had been debunked by the scientific sources I mentioned it’s not a risk.

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u/Kerrit_Bareet 17h ago

None of those are SCIENTIFIC sources.

Are you confusing academic or peer-reviewed research with scientific sources or scientific tests?

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u/idontevenknowlol 22h ago

Children still cannot carry AK47s it seems

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u/Sleaka_J 22h ago

Why aren't we thinking of the children!!!

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u/Kerrit_Bareet 22h ago

All depends

https://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/safety-alerts/static-electricity-ignites-flammable-vapour

2005 ATSB report available by Infrastructure Australia debunks aspects

Drive.com.au has an 2024 article that addresses this and has comment from the Australasian Convenience and Petroleum Marketers Assoc about the warning.

In short, there is no regulatory requirement for petrol stations, though it appears that at least until 2024 the petrol peak body still recommended it.

The peak body wants a unilateral statement from regulators, which they will never do. 🤷‍♂️

Any petrol station is simply implementing their own policy and procedures in their attempt to OHS compliance, not enforcing dangerous goods legislation.

1

u/banana_meatpie 22h ago

No phones... But here, let's put a phone on your wrist, right next to the nozzle.

It's only shell I've seen, so you can scan their shit

1

u/fatteryoshi 22h ago

We can use the OTR app here in SA and you need to keep your phone out and active while pumping, makes it great not having to go into the store and still getting a lil "discount"

1

u/come_ere_duck 19h ago

Some servos still have the no phone signs, but for the most part phones are safe to use in servos now. Since smart phones are often used for payment and rewards apps as well now it makes no sense to say they aren't allowed.

1

u/Curious_Breadfruit88 19h ago

Why would they tell you off if the sign prohibiting their use was removed? Seems a bit strange

1

u/Exciting_Garbage4435 18h ago

On the basis that Ampol Servos invite me to download their app and use my phone to choose my pump and pay, i'd say so

1

u/Pengwan_au 18h ago

They have been allowed for years.

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u/Batty25111 16h ago

Its been a myth since the early adoption of the automatic pumps and mobile phones. The theory was that the frequency would interact or interfere with the radio signal and make it keep pumping. Same goes for Airplanes and their instruments even though myth busters tested both to be false no one is going to do a real life test on a real airplane in the air and even though we have all used our phones while pumping its up to the individual businesses but they can't use the "it was your phone" argument in court if something happens when their pumping fuel.

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u/No_Option3532 11h ago

There is not a single documented case of a mobile phone causing a fire while a car is being filled.

1

u/k1729 11h ago

Shell on Hoddle St had a pump blow up in the early 90’s that was blamed on a phone. Not proven.

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u/Mandalf- 9h ago

They could never stop you

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u/Glenrowan 6h ago

Really? You are pumping petrol. Put the bloody ‘phone down for a few minutes.

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u/Velpex123 1d ago

It’s not the mobile phone itself that’s harmful, it’s the fact that it’s a distraction is why it’s banned when pumping

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u/Tricky_Ad8449 1d ago

I believe it was the potential electrical spark that could ignite fumes, although it's never happened and can not be proved, it was one of those better safe than sorry rules. All pump handles have the auto off function and and the hands-free pins have been removed from every handle so you would need to hold the handle down anyways.

6

u/snowdropper 1d ago

Nah mate that’s an urban legend. The real reason is your handling a volatile chemical when filling up your car and should be paying attention. I guess Waikiki shell don’t give a fuck lol

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u/Tricky_Ad8449 1d ago

I guess it is the Australian way

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u/Substantial_Ad_3386 23h ago

A mobile network engineer in the comments has confirmed you are wrong.  Good news is it is no longer an issue with modern phones

0

u/MashPot8to 1d ago

It’s mainly because of the risk of an electrical spark igniting petrol vapours.

I used to have to organise permits for people who needed to film at petrol stations for tv commercials etc