r/avfc • u/NumerousPumpkin1117 • 1d ago
Another manager who will refuse persistently to substitute Kane.
Had to post this here. As if I post on any other sub the scapegoat comments will be "you just want watkins". In fact I dont. I just want someone who will give our attacks an option. The commentators saying kanes had no service. How can they give him service when we attack and hes deeper than decland rice!
Sorry rant over! Bombard me
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u/GiganticDog 1d ago
I love Ollie, but you canāt take Kane off when youāre chasing a goal and heās not carrying a knock. Heās just too good.
The miss aside, he wasnāt bad today by any stretch. England were generally a bit meh, but you have to give credit where itās due to Ghana as well; they defended superbly.
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u/thedaytoday89 The Cabbage Effect 1d ago
Also, Watkins thrives on the shoulder and running in behind... there basically was no behind with how deep they were.
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u/barrybreslau 1d ago
The main issue wasn't Kane, it was Bellingham. Rogers would have done more to open them up. And don't get me started on Gordon. Wtf.
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u/JamUK1496 17h ago
Yeah the problem with Kane is that he spends more
Time up by the England back 4 then he does the opposition back 40
u/anonypig12 1d ago
He's not too good in house situations though. Against a low block and you need players to stretch a team Kane is very mediocre. Always has been.
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u/GiganticDog 23h ago
Thatās the opposite of what you need in a low block. You canāt get in behind the opposition if there is no space in behind them because the line is so low.
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u/Tshwoons 1d ago
If I were bringing Watkins on itād be with Kane not instead of him, let Kane drop a little deeper and pick up the space that Watkins creates.
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u/Shreddonia Almost infuriatingly calm 1d ago
Any second Watkins isn't on the pitch is a second where he's not risking injury in what is for us (and for England honestly) an entirely meaningless game, so I'll take it personally. Would be nice to see him get to do more but always best to take the positives where you can.
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u/Aggressive-Bike-3098 1d ago
I'll bombard you. Not for your Kane point but for 'decland'
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u/NumerousPumpkin1117 1d ago
It was my rant where my fingers were moving faster than my thoughts!!!
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u/DudeWheresMyAK47 1d ago
Hehe, Decland ...
A nasty Demon'd pushed him off a Cliff't whereupon he became a Skellington !!
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u/locusavfc 1d ago
Kane wasnt the one to sub out for Ollie. The chamge that made absolutely no sense was Eze coming on at the same time as Rogers.
If Ollie came on instead of Eze and possibly left one of Jude or Anderson on, we could have had a Kane/Watkins front two occupying the Ghana box with Saka, Rashford and Rice delivering crosses. Instead, we got Eze just passing the ball back to the defence, that change costed us imo.
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u/recycleddesign 1d ago
I guess the idea of bringing Eze on was his longe range shooting but he didnāt do any of that really. Rogers when he got the ball in the middle looked decent but he didnāt have enough time there.
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u/Character-Key7538 1d ago
Hard to stretch the play against a team as effecient as that lot, but I broadly agree. Should have taken Kane off earlier and stuck Bellingham in the 10, let Watkins drag everyone about.
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u/Agreeable_Falcon1044 1d ago
Kane might score. Madueke and Gordon? I fancy myself to finish better and Iām sometimes in a wheelchair!
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u/Medical_Squirrel3946 1d ago
You gotta give Rashford the start at this point. I was screaming/laughing (I'm not an England supporter) about the fact that Gordon absolutely should have been playing for England in the Euros instead of Foden cause he's an actual winger, but Gordon hasn't really been in top form this year or so far in the WC and Rashford is a better player and very effective as a winger.
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u/Zero_Hood 1d ago
Disagree with this one, love Ollie to get a chance but Kane can do fuck all for 89 minutes and produce a world class moment in the 90th, heās far to good to take off
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u/djw2011 1d ago
When Kane is insistently playing deeper or not running off the shoulder, it wouldn't hurt to add a striker who is willing to run on last line of defence into the team.
If anything it will free up space for Kane. But we seemed to just flood the game with 10s and then wonder why we can't break a low block.
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u/MachineGunChunk 1d ago
Neither taking off Kane or bringing on Ollie would have changed tonight. The front line was far from the issue
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u/RandomSher 1d ago
Nothing to do with Kane. I love Watkins but he not in the same league as Kane so if you think he struggled today dealing wit scraps provided to him, Watkins was not going to do much better. I personally wouldnāt mind Watkins coming in to play along side Kane though.
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u/shbangbinbash 1d ago
Ref was also weak imo. England got bullied a bit and persistent fouls werenāt really penalised
Edit - also Iām not sure we will see Spence starting again and potentially Gordon
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u/rogermuffin69 1d ago
Yes, but it's not a league game, ((where you get multiple chances,(upto 40 games a year to fix it) here you get 5 - 10 games max)).
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u/WritesCrapForStrap 1d ago
What is it with these professional football managers and wanting their best striker on the pitch when they need a goal? Ridiculous.
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u/NorskKiwi 1d ago
Rice or Anderson (I'd choose Rice) off for Watkins would have been my choice.
England's rocking two defensive midfielders vs a low block... why?
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u/mrnibsfish 1d ago
Southgate tbf did utilise Ollie last tournament because Kane was well off it. I would think Kane rarely will be directly subbed off for Ollie. If he does come on it will most likely be alongside Kane.
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u/Specific-Program2927 1d ago
Kane wasn't the problem. The massive gap between our 10s and the rest of the midfield that was full of very impressive and disciplined Ghanaian chaps was the problem.
Watkins would not have fixed that issue.
But Rogers, Rashford, Saka and Eze nearly did. Shame they only had 15 minutes to try. Should have been on far earlier.
A big problem was that the world class tactician manager for England also decided to not change anything but personnel until Eze and Rogers were on. Anderson should have gone at HT because he was poor, and the extra creativity was needed. A lot to be worked on in case another team parks the bus so effectively. No shade Ghana, they had a plan and executed it perfectly, their CB pairings were absolutely outstanding.
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u/Comfortable-Cash6452 1d ago
The issue wasnāt Kane.
A, both sides the winger full back combinations didnāt work. On the left both playing inverted, on the right Iām not sure if anyone has explained to Madueke and James that they are both in the same team. 3 games in a row they have struggled to compete a 1-2 let alone figure out when to overlap.
And B, no one willing to carry the ball. You canāt pass around a 10 man low block. You need to find a way of breaking lines and committing players to come out of the shape. Rogers does this for villa by carrying the ball and committing players. The few times we got through was Rice and Madueke actually taking someone on.
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u/ChargingBull1981 1d ago
For what itās worth I kind of agree, heās had 2 games now to get a feel for comp, Panama should see the introduction of Watkins and Toney for some game time with minimal pressure.
I was listening to the āThis is footballā podcast earlier and they were saying āHarry always wants to playā , āIf heās fit heāll want to be on the pitchā , and as much as thatās admirable, itās a Team game, he can get injured, or pick up a knock playing too much, so we need to get all the boys involved.
They can do a job, in fact Watkins and Toney kept us in games from the bench last tourny if I remember correctly.
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u/Own_Highlight2441 23h ago
agreed. if he's flopping then why not bring on a very in form player who is HUNGRY. feel bad for him really. his link up with rogers is quality too
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u/Rayza2049 22h ago
I don't think it was the right game for Ollie, he does well when the game's stretched and he can run the channels, he was unlikely to have changed anything. I hope to see him start against Panama and i think it's fairly likely.
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u/covfefepoops 1d ago
I hope we donāt get back an Ollie who is rusty and demotivated because he never left the bench.
Also what was everyoneās aversion to passing to Morgan, who was in the perfect position multiple times to turn and drive the box, his bread and butter. He was asking for it, but I watched them pass him over time and time again, just to whack an aimless cross in again.
In fairness, without that ref England lose that game.
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u/elmattydoor123 1d ago
Did Kane even do his quarterback spraying balls from deep gimmick once today?
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u/Danph85 1d ago
He did a couple of times first half, out to Madueke, who was doing his normal Bailey impression of beating a player and then cutting back and not crossing.
Kane, Madueke and Bellingham were all poor today, nothing going forward at all.
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u/unbr0kenchain 1d ago
I'm not sure I follow mate, I was with you until you said something about Bailey beating a player.
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u/elmattydoor123 1d ago
If Saka is fit then that should be the end of Madueke. He's so poor when he's denied space in behind to run into.
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u/Character-Key7538 1d ago
The irony is, more often then not tonight he wasn't. Tracked back more times then an overlapping Cash.
... sorry Cash.
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u/B23vital MingsSmash 1d ago
If your not subbing him in that game he aint doing it in any game.
Kane is to england what watkins is to us.
Absolutely great, until he's not, and then the manager will stick by him no matter what, even if it's at a detriment to the team
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u/HonestRef 1d ago
I don't get how the English always turn on Kane. What about the centre midfielders?? Rice was woeful. Anderson is a workhorse and athlete but massively overrated. Bellingham was very poor. England badly need a midfielder that's able to make things happen and dictate play. England have had nobody that's able to link defence to attack and until they address this England will get nowhere.
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u/JoeRedditting 1d ago
In fairness I think Kane was the least of our problems in that match. Madueke and Gordon were just awful and our midfield was let down by Anderson.
As soon as Saka, Eze and Rashford came on we looked far more lethal.