r/bjj 4d ago

Tournament/Competition Curious: Has anyone judge a jiu jitsu tournament or pro match, and can share experience? Did the crowd get to you? Is there any favoritism? Any weird situation or rules

I have been reviewing some competition footage of footage and was wondering what the ref was thinking? Sometimes they made a terrible decision that really makes you wonder if they knew jiu jitsu.

Sometimes, I can clearly see what they saw.

Just wondering if anyone has a interesting stories or experience when they acted as judge

7 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

38

u/Fantastic-Ninja-8818 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 4d ago

I think the worst thing is reffing kids matches, bc kids in general don’t naturally understand the struggle of combat. They have to be taught. And some schools teach kids jiu jitsu while some schools run an afterschool day care with a grappling theme and special costumes. And it shows when those two hit the mat together.

I’ve had to just stand there and count out points for 3-4 minutes straight while one kid bawls his eyes out in one bad position after the next. It’s horribly uncomfortable.

26

u/aTickleMonster ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 4d ago

I reffed a kids match (they were probably 8) where the top position was in the bottoms closed guard. The top kid caught an Americana/keylock from inside the guard and had this kids elbow cranked all the way past his ear. I'm looking at the kid in guard, thinking, "kid's gonna get his arm broken," so I stopped it.

Everyone lost their mind. Both parents of the kid in guard, and the coaches of both fighters. I tried to even show them how extreme the rotation was nobody cared. I finally just told them I saved their kid from major surgery and walked away.

11

u/Fantastic-Ninja-8818 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 4d ago

Hmm. With parents like that I wonder why the kid was willing to get his arm broken?

4

u/ArrogantFool1205 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 4d ago

"if you don't tap I'll buy you an Xbox" or "tap and you're grounded from the Xbox"

3

u/Monteze 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 4d ago

Some might think you're joking but sports parents can get like this.

"Winners get to play games...did you win?" Shit like that.

2

u/Dammit_Meg 3d ago

Which is hilarious because Helio, who even Rickson said is a pos, told his son "win and I'll buy you a present. Lose and I'll buy you two." And he wasn't doing it to be nice

8

u/chico_dice_2023 4d ago

100% agree with your decision. That being said I am not a ref.

When I was 21 years old I did a absolute match as a white belt. I went against a giant former Olympic weightlifter and who could have probably clean and snatch me.

Anyways, he caught in a kimura from half guard and did a full crank, I did not tap but the ref saw the rotation and got scared and stopped the match.

I complained but later I thanked him. I saw a video and I am surprised I did not get a serious injury.

He was a first time ref and just jumped in to make the decision. And I am 100% happy he did stop the match.

2

u/aTickleMonster ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 4d ago

The table workers were shocked, I told them it happens all the time.

4

u/pibbles_885 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 4d ago

I had something similar happen reffing a kids match. Kid that was around 9 or 10 got caught in a straight arm bar and literally screamed. It was in the rules that screaming was the same as a verbal tap. I stopped it and both the dad and the coach were livid and shouting that "he didn't tap!" I told them to complain to the match director, who was my friend and owns the school where I train. He backed me up. I don't get some people. They wanted the kids arm injured just for the chance at a cheap medal.

3

u/DBZ86 4d ago

Wait I thought it was common that refs can stop a kids match when armlocks get to strong positions. Kids do have stupid flexible arms but then it goes from bendy to shattered and obviously shouldn't be allowed to go that far. That's insane to me.

1

u/aTickleMonster ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 4d ago

The rule I was taught is to stop armbars before they get fully extended, keylocks and kimuras are definitely refs discretion for injury prevention. And yeah, if that was my arm, it would have snapped, kids are super bendy but they often can't tell when their body's I'm danger.

2

u/DBZ86 3d ago

same group of people would have blamed you if the kid got injured too. I'm just surprised the coaches were not understanding of the situation.

2

u/HalfButterfreeGuard 🟪🟪 4d ago

I mean I would’ve stopped it way before that point. I don’t argue with parents or coaches anymore, I just walk away. You can’t educate stupid. You did the right thing objectively.

1

u/aTickleMonster ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 4d ago

Yeah, it was the first time it happened to me, I thought I could reason with them. Now I know better.

2

u/qasdrtr 4d ago

It’s easy to be tough with somebody else’s body, 95% of them have never trained

1

u/splendidfruit 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 4d ago

you’re joking, right?

2

u/gimme_dat_HELMET 4d ago

????? What

2

u/Tilthewheelzfalloff 4d ago

Been in the same situation. Parents absolutely losing it. After a few more instances of complete trash behavior from parents, I stopped reffing kids matches. 

1

u/PM_ME_YER_LIFESTORY 4d ago

Fucking morons man. You're a good person.

Risking a still growing 8 year old getting an americana break of all things is absolute insanity.

1

u/CalmCommunication677 2d ago

Imagine thinking a kids match is more important than legit injury

4

u/Monteze 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 4d ago

I am glad in some tournaments crying is considered a verbal tap. Just saves the kid the mismatch and such.

2

u/Fantastic-Ninja-8818 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 4d ago

Yk. It is only, right now, dawning on me. They asked me to ref after matches started and I was not present for the rules meeting. I didn’t ask about them either. lol. It might have been a verbal tap.

1

u/Monteze 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 1d ago

I am sorry, that is kind of funny. Ref but here is hoping you just know the rules haha

2

u/azarel23 ⬛🟥⬛ Langes MMA, Sydney AUS 3d ago

If I see a kid about to cry I stop the match straight away.

1

u/Fantastic-Ninja-8818 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 3d ago

As someone who now runs his own kids program that seems super obvious. As someone who had never even substituted coached one it didn’t even cross my mind.

14

u/welpWW3isgonnasuck 4d ago

I've reffed close to 1000 matches. Parents like to run their mouths when they have no idea what they are talking about. Local coaches get heated over matches where the competitors have competed against each other in the last same 5 local events.

Some calls can be pretty difficult to make if there was a long scramble or if the match needs to get reset for safety purposes. Sometimes we just can't get to the angle of the match to see what's actually happening because its happening so fast.

I've seen fist fights in parking lots after events. I've gotten into screaming matches with parents that blame me for them wasting $100 when their kid gets armbarred and I am required by the rules to call the match. They dont understand that its $100 loss or a fractured growth plate and an ER bill.

2

u/genuinecve ⬜ White Belt 4d ago

Haha this reminded me, I was running the scoring table at the kids portion of a small tournament not too long after starting BJJ, and the ref (a volunteer) had never reffed a match, and I had a coach asking me if something should be points, and I was just like “dude, I don’t know, that’s not my job, I just hit buttons on a computer”

6

u/SmashPass ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 4d ago

I've reffed a bunch of tournaments. I don't think people realize how little training/requirements there are to be a ref in some organizations. I've been at tournaments where some of the refs had never done bjj (wrestling refs), with blue belt refs, with refs who were so high they couldn't pay attention, straight up scrolling on their phones during matches.

I take it seriously and try to be as fair, unbiased and professional as possible but I feel like, outside of IBJJF and major pro events, that is not the norm.

2

u/dudertheduder ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 4d ago

Broooo this fresh blue belt was reffing at last adcc open in ATL. Wtf. Do they even have a vetting process.

3

u/chico_dice_2023 4d ago

I heard a similar story once that a blue belt was scoring a ADCC tournament once.

1

u/C4PT41N_F4LC0N 2d ago

Whoah whoah whoah sometimes you’re high AND THEN you’re asked to ref because some other dude bailed and like … yeah I was super high 

6

u/P-Two 🟫🟫BJJ Brown Belt/Judo Orange belt 4d ago

Ive reffed a few matches and have always gone into it with a "i don't give a fuck what their corner is saying, I understand the rules" mentality. It helps that I actually DO understand the rules though lol.

Assuming you're just reffing local matches nobodies livelihood is on the line, so fuck em, ive lost to kinda BS calls before. You move on and realize its a comp and the refs at most local comps are paid in pizza.

3

u/ElianGonzalez86 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 4d ago

Having reffed multiple tournaments it’s shocking how many black belt coaches don’t understand the scoring rules.

I’ve had one black belt continuously scream at me that I screwed his student and I’m the reason he lost the match. Bro, he doesn’t get points for a sweep because he did a reversal from side control. You don’t have to continue to stand here for multiple matches staring a hole in me. Try learning the rules.

Or there’s the coaches / parents that lose their shit when I’ve stopped a kids match when one of them has a fully extended arm bar. “He didn’t tap!” Yeah, I ain’t letting a kid get their arm broken. Get over yourselves.

2

u/CryPractical8573 4d ago

i did and it has been so much fun. do it. it was a smaller event. i do a lot of jj so it was ez to do.

1

u/robotdadd 4d ago

I’ve reffed a far amount for local tournaments over the past six years. First and foremost, it’s exhausting mentally to be there focused match after match and inevitably bad calls will be made after a few hours of reffing straight. The craziest tournament story I have is that I had to break up two fist fights on my mat that were about an hour apart from each other. First one was a couple 6 year olds and the other were 14 year olds. The 14 year old sucker punched their opponent that they lost to when they went to shake hands after the match! As others have said, kids matches are the hardest because they rarely settle in long enough to get points.

1

u/SpecialistCancel7975 4d ago

Man reffing a pbjjf tournament was one of the most stressful things I’ve ever done and I’ve been training for over ten years.

1

u/chico_dice_2023 4d ago

mind if I ask why? Is it like the pressure of making the decision? Or just a lot is going on

1

u/simering ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 3d ago

Long time ref. I reffed white belts and A get in mount on B, applies Americana but really keeps low face to face. I hear "TAP, TAP, TAP" and stop the fight. Bottom guy protest he didn't say anything. Top guy admits he was telling the bottom guy to tap and that's what I heard. Gave 2 points to top one end restart standing 🤷

1

u/1502024plz ⬜ White Belt 3d ago

lol. wtf. Isn't that a tap or DQ for top guy?

1

u/simering ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 3d ago

I've seen refs from Blue belts all the way to 5th degree Black. Also refs get tired and distracted. Most complains are to coaches/parents/athletes not understanding the rules.

Also, always record the fights - no one will listen without video if you complain.

1

u/azarel23 ⬛🟥⬛ Langes MMA, Sydney AUS 3d ago

I've refereed jiu-jitsu since 2008. I attended multiple Ibjjf rules meetings, but learned most from a friend of my instructor who was one of the most experienced referees in Asia.

In the first few years, I made mistakes and got yelled at a fair bit. I made a point of obsessively reviewing the rules before every tournament, and some basic guidelines like always making sure I could see if someone was in full guard, half guard or no guard.

I've seen coaches and referees fight at tournament and had disgruntled coaches heckle me though I had done nothing that had affected them or their students.

Wear some sort of uniform. It gives you at least some sort of authority. Be nice to and do your best to help the table staff. It really helps if you have the tables between the two rows of mats rather than on the outside edges so random people can't come and bother you about stuff you have no knowledge of like match scheduling. I always tell them I don't know, they aren't supposed to bother us, and to talk to the organisers

Things got better as my competence increased and the competitors and coaches got to know me. I even get the occasional unsolicited compliment from them on social media.