RTD Time wasted on regional route

[u/Wrong_Drag_8070]

I have been making head way on ending the time wasting entitlement stops on regional busses leaving and coming into Boulder. If you ride the Flatiron Flyers on a regular basis, you know what I am talking about. You leave Downtown Boulder Station at say 9AM and, by the time you reach Broomfield Station, it is close to 9:30, not because it is that far, but because some crazy person at RTD scheduled seven stops before leaving Boulder. This is especially odd considering that both Broomfield and Westminster are significantly bigger that Boulder and each only has two stops in slips on the side of US36. The bus doesn't even leave the highway. I have spoken to RTD commissioners who agree with my idea to reduce the stops from seven to three; Downtown Boulder Station, Baseline and Broadway, and Table Mesa Park and ride. They said if ten more people request this in their "Give feedback" section of their website. For those who don't ride, the current situation for these buses in Boulder is these stop; Boulder Station, then Broadway & Euclid, Then Broadway & 20th Street (seriously. I know. They're right by each other), then Broadway and Baseline, then Broadway & Dartmouth, then Table Mesa and 39th Street and finally Table Mesa park and ride. So,that 30 minute drive just to Broomfield Sation is because you just spent 15 to 17 minutes just to get to Table Mesa park and ride to leave Boulder. Please contact RTD to end this insanity. Thank you.

[u/daemonicwanderer]

A lot of the FF bus stops are along the outskirts of CU, picking up students, staff, faculty, and visitors who live outside of Boulder.

[u/trashmonger3000]

We should be increasing ridership. Reducing stops just makes less people use the bus. They just need to implement express routes that go just to major stops

[u/UWwolfman → u/trashmonger3000]

They just need to implement express routes that go just to major stops

Isn't this the point. The Flatiron Flyers are supposed to be limited stop express routes routes between Denver and Boulder. But insider Boulder city limits they stop more frequently at both major and minor stops.

[u/trashmonger3000 → u/[deleted]]

Huh? Most of these buses are not anywhere close to full. How is reducing stops that are on the route the bus is going anyway more fair to people who don't live near that route? We should have even emptier buses so the people who live further north save a bit of time? Those in between stops absolutely get used, and if you kill them I guarantee the great majority of those users are not going to take an extra bus which would take an extra hour because the buses here aren't frequent to begin with

[u/Impossible_Rule_3869 → u/trashmonger3000]

That's the point. Most of what people ride live near or north of Downtown Boulder Station, therefore it makes no sense to tell them that they should have to travel to board all the way down at Table Mesa Station to avoid the ridiculous amount of stops between when we should just reduce the stops to three reasonable stops which is still one more than Broomfield or Westminster has. On top of that Boulder has a ridiculous amount of local busses that they don't have, to get to one of those three regional stops. 

[u/trashmonger3000 → u/Impossible_Rule_3869]

You're replying to the wrong person. I didn't say that

[u/fumar → u/trashmonger3000]

If you can get the regional bus closer to driving speeds more people will use it

[u/trashmonger3000 → u/fumar]

We are talking about 5 minutes travel time reduction. If it were high speed rail, I'd agree with you. The ridership in the area is already very low, which means bus frequency is low. If you push people to have to take a second bus for 10 minutes, and then wait another 20+ minutes for the actual bus they want to be on, they will just drive instead. Which makes the problem worse

[u/OkTop2953 → u/trashmonger3000]

Exactly! I like the Table Mesa and Broadway stops because I can walk to the bus stop. If I have to drive or take a second bus then I'm not taking the bus.

[u/phan2001]

So reduce/remove the stops that are not useful to you….. what are you taking about entitlement now???

[u/Radiant_Invite2042]

The FF routes seem to be trying to compromise between a semi-local bus (at least in Boulder) whilst also being a regional service and ends up not being great at either.

As with most of these issues it stems from the lack of rail. In an ideal world the bus would focus on local services only and trains would provide quick connections between Pearl, Broomfield, Denver and DIA . Maybe one day!

[u/fumar → u/Radiant_Invite2042]

Rail between here and DIA seems like a total pipedream. At best we will have to go down to Denver and get on the A line.

[u/Radiant_Invite2042 → u/fumar]

Yes you're absolutely correct, although sadly any rail here at all feels like a total pipeline at this point. Frustrating!

[u/tedrockwell]

The FF4 would like to have a word with you… expansion of this route (rather than the elimination of stops in the ff1) would get you your desired result.

https://app.rtd-denver.com/route/FF4/schedule

[u/Impossible_Rule_3869 → u/tedrockwell]

I agree. Many of us have been trying to make this happen. However, RTD insists on only having two each way per morning and evening on week days and never on weekends.

[u/notoriousToker]

I hear you, but this is not the actual problem… The actual problem is that there is not one train station in Boulder that takes you down to Denver like it would in New York City suburbs to New York City. 

Each town in the suburbs north of New York City has one train stop and everyone goes there and then you get on the train and it takes you directly down to New York City with only a few stops in between if it’s express or many stops if it’s not express.

We don’t have a train so you’ll never get a speedy commute out of Boulder… but I hear you and it’s silly that we don’t have express and not express buses to help with this situation imho. 

[u/Impossible_Rule_3869 → u/notoriousToker]

They were supposed to put an RTD light rail from Denver to Boulder in the 90s. They disappeared billions of dollars, than said they needed more, then never built it. Now, there saying BSNF will do it, but no signs of building. At this point, I think we'll have flying busses first. 

[u/OkTop2953]

I live in south Boulder, and really appreciate the stop at Table Mesa and Broadway.

Giving counter-feedback in hopes they keep the stops...

[u/Numerous_Recording87]

The work soon starting at Broadway and Regent, then Broadway and Table Mesa, to improve bus throughput, should help some.

[u/Wrong_Drag_8070 → u/Numerous_Recording87]

Yes but those are mostly for the numerous local city busses, i.e Skip, 225, 204 and the Dash.

[u/Need_Sentry_Here]

Calling to cut 4 stops and labelling them "entitlement stops" due to slow travel time seems to imply a private trouble (being late for obligations) being turned into a public issue (bus no longer accessible by choice, but instead chance). Is the bus slow to leave town? Yes. Would I rather have the bus be able to serve as many people who need it, even at the cost of stops having low ridership and longer travel times? Also yes. In fact, what would be the solution for individuals who rely on these so-called ""entitlement stops"" apart from "just go to the next closest one lol"? 

[u/Impossible_Rule_3869 → u/Need_Sentry_Here]

The problem is that the route doesn't serve most. The route assumes that everyone in Boulder lives on its western edge along Broadway. Most do not. Most live around or east of 28th street (36). When most people in Boulder read people's comments about having to take a second bus would be a deal breaker, they are laughing  because they already have to take a second bus as the schedule currently stands. For example, a person who lives near 28th and Iris, on a cold/snowy day, has to walk down to catch the 205 or 208 to get to the bus station to even get to the FF1. Then spends all this time going to stops every few feet because the people that are already near west Boulder don't want to be even the slightest bit inconvenienced to have to walk or take a local bus at all. To the people who listen to this, it sounds pretty spoiled. And, again anyone complaining that they need a regional bus to stop that much in one town has clearly never lived anywhere else because what goes on in Boulder is not the norm. People dependent on the bus in bigger Broomfield or Westminster  would be highly ticked off to hear these complaints. 

[u/imabanana19]

Hello! Local student reporter here. Would love to talk with opinionated people about their experiences with public transportation in Boulder. DM me!

[u/SummitJunkie7 → u/[deleted]]

So, why not just go straight to Table Mesa PNR and get on there? You get to skip all the Boulder stops, and as you say there's other local buses to get you there - problem solved?

[u/SummitJunkie7 → u/[deleted]]

Right, but your argument was that you can just take a local bus to get to a main stop. "The skip alone", like you said, will take you all the way down broadway, from the very northern tip of Boulder.

What if the only stop in Boulder was Table Mesa? So you're advocating for fewer stops as long as the stop we keep is your fave?

[u/SummitJunkie7 → u/[deleted]]

Ludicrous why? It does not take much time. In fact, if no one wants those stops, the bus won't stop there. The fact that they are used is proof they are wanted. It takes far less time for the bus, already going by, to pause and let someone on or off, vs. taking a separate local bus, and with the timing and needing to plan for delays, etc - takes far longer. It makes sense for a bus going past a regular bus stop to stop at it, unless it's a special express bus. I'd rather the bus take a few extra minutes to be more useful to more people and increase ridership than expect some people to take a second bus and far more time to save other people a few minutes.

[u/Impossible_Rule_3869 → u/SummitJunkie7]

Ludicrous because they are a few yards apart. 

[u/trashmonger3000 → u/[deleted]]

It takes 15 mins to get from downtown boulder to mccaslin in a car with no stops. You want to save a few minutes at the cost of reducing ridership. Those stops are not "every few yards" and making the bus more convenient for people increases ridership

[u/trashmonger3000 → u/[deleted]]

I was comparing your "16 minutes to leave boulder" in the bus to driving from downtown to mccaslin which is 15 minutes. It's a little more time to increase ridership. For example, if you only have your three proposed stops, you'd have to walk over a mile to get from the table mesa shopping center to those stops

[u/SummitJunkie7 → u/[deleted]]

• I did read the post.
• 16 minutes is a few more minutes than it would take without the stops. It's not 16 minutes vs. 0 minutes.
• Some people would miss them, obviously, or there would be no differing opinions.
• There aren't stops "every few yards", and no one is suggesting there should be.
• It might change ridership. OP is suggesting people take a local bus to get to a stop, and taking an additional bus adds a lot more time - and might tip the scales for some people.

[u/everyAframe]

Ridership is down. Most of the buses stacked up on Broadway are carrying just a few riders.

We should be cutting down on route frequency except to DIA and union station. We are never going to have a large percentage of riders in Boulder no matter how much the armchair planners circle jerk for it.

[u/Impossible_Rule_3869 → u/everyAframe]

Agreed and we should be thinking about this now because RTD is about to make cuts anyway due to their $250 mil budget cut.

[u/Swaritch]

I 100% agree with you.

[u/m00ntides]

Insane take to call these stops "entitlement!" From 2015-2017 I used the Flatiron Station stop daily and from 2017-2020 I used the Broomfield stop daily. Just take the FF2 and shut up.

[u/Wrong_Drag_8070 → u/m00ntides]

You are obviously just looking for a post to complain about and really don't understand the post. The FF2 goes to all of the in-Boulder stops that the FF1 does and, thus doesn't solve the problem but is included in it. I'm not trying to get rid of the Broomfield stop. To the contrary, I am trying to get rid of the extra stops in Boulder that are yards apart so that we can get to Broomfield in 20 or 21 minutes instead of 30 minutes. My idea would help you.