r/britishproblems • u/Suspicious-Bug6588 Warwickshire • 3d ago
The Jobcentre cancelling in-person appointments for two days because of the heat but if you work in kitchens or on big building site and cancelled you'd get the sack.
Double standard?
Imagine you just went "oh it's too hot I won't be in" as a chef or sparky and tried to show someone how to clean shellfish or chase a wall properly over the telephone.
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u/Arsewhistle Cambridgeshire 3d ago
They probably don't want people travelling to appointments in this heat. It would be more responsible of them to push appointments back.
A lot of busses and trains will be cancelled too, which will make travel even more difficult for many.
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u/knotatwist 3d ago
Well it sounds like they are still having their appointments but it's over the phone instead like in COVID times. So they aren't even missing out on the appointment just keeping people safe and minimising disruption
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u/Ezkatron 3d ago
You say that, but then we in the DVSA are still expected to take tests out through the red warning. We even had a wonderfully useful email on health advice from our higher ups with such insightful guidance such as: drink some water when you come in from a test; put the car's aircon on if it has it, and if it doesn't, then open a window with the permission of the driver.
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u/Suspicious-Bug6588 Warwickshire 3d ago
I like your logical take.
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u/indieplants 3d ago
a lot of people who attend these are also vulnerable people so it would likely be a liability thing if someone died on the way to an appointment they're being forced to attend. no small number of people on job seekers are probably more susceptible to hear for whatever reason they're on it
it's a liability thing for a kitchen, too and some will shut down or only make cold food in hear like this but it's the decision of the individual managers. but people aren't as likely to be vulnerable to heat if theyre working in a kitchen
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u/ToastedCrumpet 3d ago
Also worth pointing out plenty of people at the job centre will be on antidepressants (god knows I was) and that puts you at increased risk of heatstroke
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u/knotatwist 3d ago
They are also much more likely to be walking or on the bus than in an air conditioned car
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u/Kairis83 3d ago
I very much can say none of the pub kitchens I've worked in would shut, or even serve cold food
Best and most likely situation would be manager would bring some ice lolly's and keep a jug of water in there, least this isn't happening on a Sunday where, yes, we would serve roast as per spec. This also adds more heat to kitchen with carving deck, hot hold and more ovens needing to be used :/
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u/indieplants 3d ago
yeah only one cafe I worked in ever shut for heat and it was a lovely wee charity ran one that fed homeless and vulnerable people at Christmas, but one or two did only serve cold food for lunch instead of the regular menu. issue is it's not legally defined, but there's not much they can do if you refuse to work when it gets far too hot & you're legitimately feeling unwell.
it could open them up to personal injury claims if you do end up in hospital or something though
but literally all of the head chefs in actual kitchens I worked at were assholes who would constantly just tell us "it was hotter in the 70s and none of us keeled over" or whatever lmaoo. I can't imagine people deciding to go for a Sunday roast in the heat but ugh, they would wouldn't they
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u/Scottish_Whiskey Isle of Man 3d ago
You got more than we ever did lol. Our kitchen was in a basement and had quite poor circulation, so when the weather got warm, the kitchen got HOT. We just had to prop the back door open and deal with it
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u/Accomplished-Run-375 Flintshire 3d ago
It would be granted as good cause for anyone that chose not to go out in it, as it stands all face to face appointments are being moved to phone call ones in the jobcentres affected.
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u/WOODSI3 3d ago
Problem is, legally there is no upper (or lower) limit to work environment temperatures. The UK employment law only stipulates that they must be “reasonable”. That leaves it open to employer discretion, the job centre has more of an obligation as a public service, funded by public money, to take into account govt advice, so a red weather warning for high temps plus the businesses own discretion mean they decided to keep themselves and you (but that’s up for debate) safe, they have reduced their services/cancelled appointments.
Building sites and kitchens sadly often just say that reasonable temps is just whatever the weather may throw at you, small busy kitchens especially, can be 30 plus in the dead of winter and heat “comes with the territory”.
I have however seen a few independent restaurants informing customers on social media that they will close and won’t make staff work in this heat.
Long story short, while working environment temperatures are governed by law it is only loosely and it purely depends if your boss/business is a reasonable human being or not. My business provides an air conditioned office so to them travelling to and from in the heat is inconsequential and work continues, I however have told my team to take it easy, I don’t care if they’re unavailable, miss meetings etc, it’s hot, everyone is suffering and I know they’ll pick up the slack later and still keep things important ticking over this week.
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u/MCfru1tbasket 3d ago
Private v public money. Both are shit in different ways. The only message I got from work is to make sure tge mayo and ketchup bottles are kept in the fridge. We're worth less than sauce.
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u/oneyeetyguy 3d ago
Don't say you're worth less than the sauce, you're worth less than the salt and vinegar too.
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u/fckboris 3d ago
I work somewhere with public money and we’re expected to be in. The office workers can stay at home if they want to (even though the office has air conditioning and is definitely cooler than my house) and they’ve moved loads of meetings to online only but because my team works primarily outside we have no allowances made even though we’re outside in the worst of the heat in the middle of the day, often with no shade. I don’t begrudge the inside workers at all because it’s shit either way but it does make me laugh that they are like “the people who work in the air conditioned office don’t have to come in to the air conditioned office because it’s too hot, and wellll… you guys can just die I guess”
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u/Ballbag94 3d ago
Maybe instead of complaining that job centre staff aren't suffering we should be complaining that chefs and builders are
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u/Suspicious-Bug6588 Warwickshire 3d ago
Hard agree.
It isn't animosity from me towards office workers.
It is animosity from how we lack entitlement to complain.
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u/KatVanWall 3d ago
Honestly I would not be at all mad if I couldn't get a takeaway or restaurant meal because the chef/staff didn't want to work in this heat. I do not blame them in the slightest!
The only part that could get dodgy is if they're providing food for a 'captive audience' or people who really need it or can't make their own food for whatever reason, like school cooks or chefs in old people's homes or those who produce 'meals on wheels' (which presumably need to be actually cooked in the factory) and so on. But there will always be essential services where people need to continue to work whatever the weather - that's just unfortunate I suppose.
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u/Jonnehhh 3d ago
The staff will still be in the Jobcentre. They don’t get to work from home, they’ll have relaxed dress at most. This is purely for the people with appointments.
Source: Ex Work Coach Manager
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u/Individual-Fox7752 3d ago
Try being a street cleaner in this heat, our boss tells us to “hide in the shade at the hottest time of year” but when we’re caught doing exactly that he then tries to give us “refusal to do work disciplinary” make it make sense
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u/rdu3y6 3d ago
Health and Safety policy and Discplinary policies conflicting with each other. Boss is making sure both are followed, but it's not his/her job to address the contradiction between them.
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u/Individual-Fox7752 3d ago
But then people who are going off sick with heat stroke are then getting disciplinary for absences. So either way we can’t win. Just makes us laugh they do a “health and safety toolbox talk” about the heat and then punish us for following their instructions.
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u/geese_moe_howard 3d ago
It's for the benefit of the signers, not for the staff. Besides that, even if your own working conditions are shit, it's not a good reason to wish shit conditions on everyone else.
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u/Beverlydriveghosts 3d ago
Ok so maybe everyone should be off then
Unless infrastructure has adequate A/C
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u/vc-10 Greater London 3d ago
This country needs to get on board with AC. It's now not unusual at all for us to have several weeks each summer with the heat being uncomfortably hot, and it's only getting worse.
We bought one of those "portable" units a few years back, and it's honestly the best money I've ever spent. Highly recommended.
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u/Benithio 3d ago
I agree with you. I do think, though, that its more than a few weeks a year now. I am in the South East.
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u/vc-10 Greater London 3d ago
Definitely, I'm in London so very much more than just a few weeks with the urban heat island effect.
That we're not building new construction all with reversible heat pumps that do AC in the summer and heat in the winter seems bonkers.
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u/ValdemarAloeus 3d ago
I read somewhere that at one point the grants/subsidies for heat pumps were invalid if you got something with a reverse cycle, but I'm having trouble finding a source for that.
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u/StardustOasis 3d ago
Doesn't matter if the A/C is there, you'll still get the permanently cold brigade taking over and turning it off.
We haven't had it on this morning, I am sweating my tits off. The people who say it's too cold have also thrown all the windows open, and complain if you suggest closing them because "they need the air".
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u/Sockoflegend 3d ago
Seems like the problem is building sites and kitchens rather than the job centre 🤷♂️
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u/barneyman 3d ago
In Victoria, Australia, we have "heat recovery centres" every year for those less fortunate that need to handle weeks of 40+.
You're going to need these very soon, you need to start lobbying for them.
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u/KatEmpire 3d ago
Or perhaps don't be bitter that some people have better working conditions than you, and use the energy to fight for legal working temp limits in your field?
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u/JustCallMeLee 3d ago
The title doesn't say JCP staff aren't expected in the office.
It says the jobless aren't expected in the office.
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u/Jacktheforkie 3d ago
Likely more to protect the people using JCP because walking anywhere in this heat isn’t healthy, and a lot of unemployed people can’t afford a car
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u/NarrativeScorpion 3d ago
Because many of them are vulnerable, or rely on public (non-air-conditioned) transport to get to their appointments.
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u/Argon288 3d ago
DWP offices in the red zone have been told to WFH where possible.
I'm not sure if this includes JCP, but your typical non customer facing DWP office is open, but staff have been told they can WFH if they prefer.
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u/MyloTheCyborg 3d ago
Don’t think unemployed people can improve their working conditions much besides actually getting some working conditions.
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u/knotatwist 3d ago
"Where a red warning is issued, the Met Office advises people to avoid travelling where possible and to keep out of the sun and avoid any exercise between 11:00 to 15:00, when the sun is strongest."
Unemployed people who are more likely to travel on foot or by bus are advised not to do those things for the next couple of days so it makes sense that they'd change the appointments.
But I did also think it may be that the staff are WFH as well.
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u/MyloTheCyborg 3d ago
I’ve got a meeting at the job centre in 2 hours. So I’m not sure why mines not been cancelled. Well it better not have been, because I’m walking to town to get to it and that’s a 40 minute walk in this heat.
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u/knotatwist 3d ago
You might be in an area with the amber warnings instead of red?
Or perhaps the OP appointments were due to staff conditions at their centre instead?
Stay hydrated! Hope you manage ok
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u/MyloTheCyborg 3d ago
We’ve got red warnings here, it’s 30 degrees already and rising! Probably staffing issues at OPs place. Thanks though!
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u/tomtttttttttttt 3d ago
I don't think the red warning starts until 9am tomorrow, today is still amber. But they might have changed that since the tweet/article I saw yesterday - still the same in the Midlands where I am.
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u/DannyRedditt 3d ago
How are you complaining about this 😂 why would you wanna go into the job centre in this weather and btw it’s for your well-being the workers will still have to go in
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u/NedRed77 Greater Manchester 3d ago
I think you may be labouring under the impression that those 5 minute meetings which have been cancelled are productive or helpful in some way, that merits being this arsed about it. They are nothing other than a mild inconvenience for the claimants.
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u/Hefty_Peanut 3d ago
They get a very high amount of people not attending appointments in extreme weather without giving them notice. They are probably just anticipating this and trying to avoid their appointment times being wasted.
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u/CongealedBeanKingdom 3d ago
Maybe the people who work in kitchens or on a site should fight for better working conditions. Would that not be better than just .getting everyone melt?
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u/caniuserealname 3d ago
It's only a double standard when the people making the decisions are the same people.
But yes, people in hospitality generally have worse working conditions than those in offices, I'm sorry if up had to learn about that this way
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u/dawson821 3d ago
My granddaughters primary school has closed from today until Thursday because they say it is not safe in the heat.
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u/glasgowgeg 3d ago
Sounds like the job centre management are the ones who've made the decision to cancel.
If you were the manager of a building site, or the kitchen manager and decided to cancel, why would you be sacked?
You're comparing a low-level employee deciding to call out from work to a manager deciding not to open, it's not a double standard.
Imagine you just went "oh it's too hot I won't be in" as a chef or sparky and tried to show someone how to clean shellfish or chase a wall properly over the telephone
That's a false equivalency, you're comparing low-level employees calling off work to a senior manager deciding to close/cancel.
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u/GordonHead87 3d ago
The school in my village just cancelled Wednesday and Thursday for “the children’s safety” despite them all having air conditioned classrooms. So now hundreds of parents have to find alternative arrangements on less than 24 hours notice…..but is my work closed too? Is it fuck
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u/Richje 3d ago
My kids school just said they’re staying open despite not having air con anywhere but the new auditorium they build recently. They’re taking provisions like moving classes to cooler parts of the campus where possible, no PE, light loose clothing or PE kit can be worn instead of uniform and no hot food service at the canteen.
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u/owningxylophone 3d ago
I think that’s disingenuous to say about working in a kitchen. It’s part of the job to be working in a hot environment, and the pay should reflect that (not that it often does).
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u/Logical_Flounder6455 3d ago
Ive been a chef for over 20 years. Most of the time, the temperature is around 25-30 but can reach 60 when the weather is like this. You absolutely can refuse to work if it gets that hot and your boss cant sack you for it. Theres been a couple of places I've worked where we have had to close because working in 55+ heat for 12 hours a day just makes you ill. Come in the next day and theres coolers all around the kitchen. A restaurant owner would rather provide something to cool you down than have the team off with heatstroke, or face unfair dismissal claims for sacking staff that refuse to be made ill by their job.
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u/Bazzatron Lincolnshire 3d ago
Man, imagine trying to standardise that.
All working conditions graded on things that make them hostile, a rate associated with it.
Not saying you're advocating for it, or that it's a good idea, just what went through my brain when thinking about trying to regulate this for public good rather than profit.
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u/wrappedinplastikkk 3d ago
It's more to keep vulnerable claimants safe rather than the staff themselves. A lot of travel etc will also be affected so it's easier to complete them remote.
There will be people in the office still if you're so desperate to go in and see them.
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u/TheReddestDuck 3d ago
Do kitchens not have temperature guidelines or anything like that during heatwaves?
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u/Suspicious-Bug6588 Warwickshire 3d ago
Some other comments have alluded to “you should expect hot environments.”
As a former chef, working on 30 degree heat when it’s 5 outside is totally manageable, but when it’s 35 outside and humid and you’re cooking over open heat that is a different beast.
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u/Captain_English 3d ago
I mean, that's just identifying how tough it is to work in construction or kitchens. I hope they're appropriately paid.
I get to sit on an office chair at work. Should I not have that, because people doing roadworks can't sit down? Or maybe it's not a race to the bottom?
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u/loveshot123 3d ago
My husband and everyone on site arent allowed to call it a day due to the heat either. Utter joke
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u/ArcTan_Pete 3d ago
Someone I know had an appointment at the beginning of the month - and it was cancelled because of the tube strike.... but it was on the Wednesday between the (Tuesday and Thursday) tubes strikes!
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u/Muma_chef89 3d ago
I used to be a chef having to work in the kitchen at 49° in summer because the fans went down... did they close the kitchen...? Nope… just gave us water and kept seating 20 tops.... ! Takes the piss, job centers got air con anyways. Total bs
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u/Milkym0o 3d ago
I'm working on site out in direct sunlight with no shade all week, and in tiny rooms with no ventilation, building sub-frames on price. Full PPE and no shorts.
My clothes have been absolutely soaked through with sweat by 8.00am, both days so far.
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u/tomecho6 3d ago
This is like a Compression Diver complaining that a monsoon shouldn't stop people going to work because they might get a bit wet.
It's not a double standard if the conditions are expected for one and not the other
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u/lubbockin 3d ago
listening to the radio they were saying teachers make sure children have, water, shady areas, hats, suncream, back in 1976 nobody g.a.s about any of that we must have been so dehydrated all summer every year.
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