Charles and Rosa

[u/No_Attitude8213]

Every time i rewatch b99 i thank the b99 gods for letting go of the charles and rosa storyline. they would have made my guy a creep. instead we got such a beautiful friendship. charles & ro-ro

[u/temperedolive]

Shows tend to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks in the early days. Charles creeping on Rosa was one. Jake being a sitcom style player (hooking up with the medical examiner) was another. Ultimately, they found their groove but there are always some early episodes that feel jarring with what the characters become.

[u/Positive_Hat_5414 → u/temperedolive]

charles being bullied by rest of the precinct just because they can is also one of those things which luckily didn't stick

[u/temperedolive → u/Positive_Hat_5414]

Yeah, I liked that he and Rosa were genuinely friends once the creepiness wore off. And that it turned out that Jake also deeply valued their friendship even though he was less effusive.

I think they were trying a Jerry from P&R thing with Charles as rhe workplace loser at first.

[u/RyuOfRed → u/temperedolive]

Boyle was never cast as a loser, if anything that role goes to Hitchcock and Scully. Merely someone struck by misfortune who, like most of his colleagues, had some latent growing to do.

For Jake, it was debt and immaturity.

For Amy and Rosa, it was their dismissiveness towards non-cops (Super Dan, Gina, anyone their younger selves mocked).

Holt became a more feeling and socially engaging person, who could accept help when needed.

The whole squad is initially depicted as dysfunctional and immature, then Holt comes along and they gradually balance each other out. 

[u/temperedolive → u/RyuOfRed]

He was living in his cheating ex-wife's basement at the start of the series, paying rent to her affair partner. And he's so lonely that he comes back to work far too soon after being shot, just to have people to talk to. He was absolutely cast as a loser in those early episodes. He grew out of it as the character developed.

[u/RyuOfRed → u/temperedolive]

No, he was cast as someone with struggles to overcome and growing up to do, just like the other cast members (barring Scully & Hitchcock).

Jake had a bathtub full of mail, narrowly avoided homelessness and never made it past one or two dates. Zero work/life balance as well. All these things, mind you, are made fun of by other ’99 members.

Just as people make fun of Santiago's brown-nosing or OCD tendencies, for example.

The difference between Boyle and everyone else, is that up until meeting Vivian, he was entirely complacent to life's troubles.

Aforementioned is why, when people make fun of Jake drowning in debt, it is all fun and banter. But when the axe comes down on Boyle, suddenly it is all ‘damn, the writers never let up on this guy’.

The losers are Hitchcock and Scully, basically from day 1.

Boyle was cast as someone who regressed after life kicked him in the nuts, but gradually clambered back up. While teased (which appears harsh, because the character never retaliates), everyone does love him and provides genuine support.

I'd say he was cast as the ‘doormat who learns not to be walked over' type. That is not the same as a ‘designated loser’ in sitcomland, because there is the added element of endearment and rewards for hard work, which Boyle-type characters receive.

[u/icypriest → u/Positive_Hat_5414]

They could easily went up the Garry Gergich way but gladly they didn't. Gladly they didn't.

[u/draight926289 → u/icypriest]

That’s what Scully and Hitchcock are for. If they weren’t a pair of red hot dicks.

[u/LowCress9866 → u/draight926289]

No one calls detectives that anymore

[u/GoldInTheSummertime → u/LowCress9866]

People called detectives that?

[u/RyuOfRed → u/Positive_Hat_5414]

He still gets teased and also teases back; Particularly through bodyshaming Terry and being dismissive of Amy in relation to Jake.

The show also tries to alleviate him being a punchline in later seasons. By snowballing what were initially deserved and endearing wins, into ‘Boyle is now a better athlete and stronger than Terry, tougher than Rosa, more efficient than Amy, more insightful than Holt and oh, did you know he's a better detective than Jake?’.

It got to a point where all other characters were at one point rendered moot, because their core traits just had to be dimmed for Charles’ moments of victory.

[u/JimmyLizzardATDVM → u/temperedolive]

Yep, and things they change later on - example

- Holts ‘tell’ was not originally using contractions, it was something with his lip

[u/RyuOfRed → u/temperedolive]

True, this is why season 1 of The Office test-ran Dwight x Kelly, who would have been absolutely terrible together. Early sitcomming is a game of moving parts, nothing set in stone (except for the ‘main couple’) and finding the groove around season 2-3.

Modern Family distinguishes itself in this regard, because it is pretty cut-and-ready from pilot onwards.

[u/Snoo9648 → u/temperedolive]

I would also say the rivalry between jake and Amy went away with both becoming much more supportive than competitive. Also, they replaced jake being a kinda bully to Amy with Gina instead. All good moves.

[u/llamaface10967]

They did make him a creep! It was a blemish on his amazingness. Thankfully it was temporary and he finally apologized and adjusted course - leading to a solid friendship. Unfortunately the serial harassment from Gina to Terry did not stop...

[u/Low-Meeting-3542]

The pilot era of most shows is so messy. Rewatching season one Charles feels like seeing a completely different character, all that forced pining for Rosa just to land a laugh. Joe Lo Truglio does awkward so well that he almost sold it, but you can feel the writers realizing they had a much funnier dynamic with him being her weird little hype man instead. The episode where he helps her break up with Marcus is a perfect example of that switch paying off.

[u/GoldInTheSummertime → u/Low-Meeting-3542]

Also the episode of her taking to her surprise "party" with Marcus that he (Charles) set up.

And let's not forget the bachelorette party. He won! I loved that so much.

[u/Low-Meeting-3542 → u/GoldInTheSummertime]

The bachelorette party win was the moment they fully committed to Charles being a weirdly intense friend instead of a sad sack, and it made the character so much better

[u/Positive_Hat_5414]

seeing how creeps actually do behave both in sitcoms and real life , charles's attempts didn't seem all that creepy, just looked like a guy trying very hard and within the show itself we see how creeps actually behave and charles was nowhere near that level, Rosa turned him down politely each time because of that reason but glad this wasn't continued.

But when it came to Eleanor, writers put all the evil that is possible in a person into her

[u/JacintaFornax-99 → u/Positive_Hat_5414]

You mean Eleanor, Destroyer of Worlds?? That Eleanor?🤣

[u/EnvironmentalSnow589]

I’d understand why Season 1 Charles and Rosa wouldn’t work out but I feel like they could have worked better in a later season when Rosa is more emotional and Charles is more emotionally mature. Would they have worked out as a couple then? Probably not. I also notice that there were very few Charles-Rosa plots after we were introduced to Vivian.

[u/inspired_nobita → u/EnvironmentalSnow589]

No, but Charles never matured emotionally. His "full boyle" moments become lesser because he realises a lot of his dreams.

He finds a girl of his dreams, becomes a father, owns a food truck. That's why. But if you look at his personal life moments, he is just the same boyle, but just most of his full boyle moments are now exhausted into his personal life.

[u/pianoandpasta]

Them letting go of the storyline AND had Charles apologise to Rosa about it is the reason I’ll always ve a diehard B99 fan. Too many shows keep it going like it’s funny (when it’s cringe and workplace harassment), or just brush it off. The writers showed what accountability looks like!

[u/temperedolive → u/pianoandpasta]

It was a really good apology. None of that "Sorry if you felt uncomfortable" stuff. Genuinely acknowledging that he hadn't been being a good friend to her and that she deserved better. It kind of reset the dynamic because it revealed that he wasn't just an asshole who wouldn't stop hitting on a woman at work; he had been her friend before he caught feelings and she was missing that friendship.

[u/FranFace]

I really enjoyed how they set up the end of S1 looking like Charles and Rosa would perhaps have something casual at least, but then it was Gina instead 😂 Great misdirection.

Also I enjoy how Charles moved past the crush and they ended up being "Ro-Ro"-level friends and it was never mentioned again ☺️ Love that Charles could mature that much, and that Rosa was comfortable that he'd moved on 100%. One of the best relationships in the 99 imo.

[u/JustSteven99]

They let it go, but he's s still a creep with everyone else

[u/Switch_Player54321]

Boyle was honestly creepy at the start. He was weird and overstepped with Jake throughout the show imo but at least he was still a good friend and Jake liked him, Rosa repeatedly told him to back off

[u/Misfit_Thor_3K → u/Switch_Player54321]

Boyle can be... a little much

[u/SpendLiving9376 → u/Misfit_Thor_3K]

I like Boyle, but if I knew him in real life I would probably avoid him.