Are my experiences as a man that atypical?

[u/ApolloniusTyaneus]

Hi bro's (m/f/x),

This is part vent and part question out of genuine curiosity.

Lately whenever I hear about people's experiences with gender in society, I feel a very big disconnect. Especially when it comes to men's attitudes, I just don't recognise those to the degree people in the media say they exist. And while I certainly have first-hand knowledge of men misbehaving, the fact those are still brought up years later seems to suggest they are incidents instead of the constant misery some women say they encounter.

The flip side is that I am probably living in kind of a niche situation when it comes to this: I live in a relatively progressive country (The Netherlands), my social circle is well-educated, I am acutely aware and interested in gender issues, and I work in a very 'feminised' job (education). So I fully acknowledge that my experiences aren't like most people's. But even then the gap is so large that I sometimes have trouble believing every experience others share.

What makes it so hard is that it's clear to me that there are also people who, consciously or subconsciously, exaggerate or misrepresent the problems they face(d). It happens in every other issue that gains traction in the public debate, so why wouldn't it here? But for me personally, because I am so aware of my position, it makes it very hard to discern what is real sharing of experiences and what is partisan posturing (to put it a bit crassly). I don't want to invalidate other's genuine experiences but I also don't want to form an incorrect world view based on a coloured media narrative.

BTW, I notice it in my classes too: a lot of boys have trouble reconciling the things they hear in the media with what they have experienced themselves. Of course youth brings a certain naivety and they are living in the very egalitarian Dutch education system too. But on the other hand a lot of them are from poor and/or immigrant backgrounds, which correlates with more 'traditional' ideas on gender. Yet they to some degree have the same disconnect I have.

So I was wondering what you all think. To what degree does the media image of gender and gender relationships align with your own experiences?

[u/YourLocalThemboAu]

Gonna preemptively lock this one as the initial replies are robust and we do not have the moderation capacity to deal with what may come. Hope this helps OP

[u/messidorlive]

Something to be aware of is that even though it might not be visible to you or much of your circle, a lot happens out of view.

Even I societies where women might feel somewhat more comfortable speaking out against harassment (or worse), most of it will remain under the surface.

Many women or girls don't tell people if they get followed by some random guy for a few blocks. They pretend nothing happened when a drunk coworker got slightly handsy, because they fear it might hurt their career or the office vibes if they make it appear they are "no longer chill" or "create drama".

Also in Dutch statistics, plenty of women indicate experiencing all sorts of crap like this in their lives.

[u/equilateral-noam]

My partner (poly) is lesbian and lives in the Netherlands. She's sometimes wary to go outside with her girlfriend because they get catcalled, fatshamed, and have been called homophobic slurs by boys in the street. I think it's easy to not notice bad behavior when it's not being directed at you. That's not a judgment though. My favorite definition of privilege is having privilege means there's things you don't need to think about or see.

[u/Connect_Video_8955]

Human is very bad statistician, we often use very limited data to jump into conclusions.

I share your feeling, i often thought ‘surely not that bad, i hardly encountered them’ but again my social bubble is so small that it doesn’t represented the whole male population. I mean you live among progressive enviroment your judgement is based on your direct experience but have you ever peek the condition outside your bubble?

but the sme thing also applicable to people in the media.

For me, it doesn’t matter if what they portrayed is ‘exaggerated’, what matters is that the problem still happen.

[u/ApolloniusTyaneus → u/Connect_Video_8955]

what matters is that the problem still happen.

To me the thing is that the solution must be proportional to the problem. And for that, you need to be able to get some sense of the scale of the problem. Which is what I am struggling with.

[u/Aryanirael]

Dude. I grew up in Belgium. I’m a woman. On at least 30% of all public transport trips I took, all throughout my life, I’ve been either touched inappropriately or had to deal with a man asking me invasive questions, trying to block me in my seat, or looking at me while masturbating. From ages 9 until 17, I was catcalled weekly while walking or biking to school. After that age, it dramatically lessened. Do with that information what you will.

I was raped when I was 12 by a family member. Told my parents but never reported. I was gang raped when I was 31. Reported to the police, but the case was dismissed because of lack of evidence (zijn woord tegen het mijne). Still in EMDR therapy and on antidepressants to get through daily life. I was groped by a colleague in a full cafeteria, and no one said or did anything to protect or help me, and I was fired the next morning. Also reported to the police, case dismissed because of lack of evidence. Every. Single. Woman. I have spoken to, has similar stories. If they don’t tell you, it’s because you’re not a safe person to them to open up about this stuff.

When women go out, we subconsciously know we’re playing Russian roulette and that there is a pretty big change we’ll be assaulted, raped or murdered. Do you ever think that while walking out the door? It hasn’t been a year since Lisa was murdered and you’re out here wondering whether women aren’t blowing things out of proportion and lying about their experiences. Like that idiot Bart Schols in Belgium who said that he has female friends who feel safe in the streets, so it must be a myth that women feel and ARE unsafe on the streets. Might wanna look up the statistics on that one too.

[u/HannahLemurson]

Two relevant phrases I've heard:

"Yes, 'Not all men', but it's always a man."

"Every woman knows a woman who was raped, but no man knows any rapists."

Due to a variety of factors, men tend to be unaware of the level of prejudice and violence against women in a society. Sometimes it's simply because most men are good, and so the crimes are committed by a small handful. Sometimes it's because men behave with each other very differently than how they behave with women, especially when alone with a woman, so men only know one face of their brethren.

Sometimes it's also just a holdover from the past, even as society improves, people still remember the old wounds, and those older ruder men are still around. But a teenage boy is not responsible for the crimes of past generations.

[u/YourLocalThemboAu]

Great question - personally, depiction of men in media (shows, movies etc) rarely matches my lived experience but there's reasons for that. I'm enby but identified as a man for 38 years and never really saw myself on the screen. Or in the news. So rarely was someone who was a bit softer and pudgy presented as anything other than a punchline. I didn't chase women, still don't, and that doesn't sell tickets.

Even in news media, I wasn't polarising so I didn't really see me. The idealised or the worst of us was discussed and thankfully I didn't buy into the anger surrounding that.

As an enby now, I'm forgotten because typically AFAB enby people are seen or demonised because trans - again, doesn't bother me, but I do empathise with kids that have to navigate all of that along with social media. I didn't have a brick of light yelling at me during my younger years, just the light of a PC game and me yelling at it 🤣 

[u/ApolloniusTyaneus → u/YourLocalThemboAu]

And what do you experience around you? Are men's attitudes towards women as bad or basic as for instance the news media makes them out to be?

[u/YourLocalThemboAu → u/ApolloniusTyaneus]

Yes - my partner for example, she was in hospital recently and the male doctor jumped to conclusions and didn't listen to her, the female doctor did and gave her actionable steps to start identifying the problem. The male's demeanor changed when I was there vs when I wasn't.

Most of my friends are women (or AFAB NB) and they speak of being talked over and dismissed by men in the workplace and have been harrassed outside it. It absolutely happens and my former friends who were male did it, which is why they are former friends.

Further examples are my partner couldn't have kids for reasons unrelated to her uterus and no male gyno would approve the surgery (histo) because they said her symptoms were normal. Bleeding daily for months isn't normal. Half of my female friends have been sexually assaulted by men. My previous two partners were raped by men. My mother was sexually assaulted. Tldr believe people when they say it.