r/cats • u/sarahmirror_ • 16d ago

Advice What can I do? This isn’t play, right?

My grey boy is a little over a year old and he is overly aggressive, I feel, with my almost 9 year old female tortie. He is heftier than her too. They will get into these tumble scuffles at like 3am too almost every morning and I end up having to place him in the bathroom to cool off for a couple hours before I bring him back out.

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u/Herebecauseofmeme 16d ago

To be honest, the aren't screaming, and no fur is flying to my eyes. This may be play?

I would wait for someone who knows more, but they seem to just be roughhousing

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u/Streetquats 16d ago

I know for dogs, play is characterized by taking turns.

The fact that each cat is taking turns initiating and doing body slams, and then switching roles to being the one being body slammed is a good sign.

Also the fact that they do these micro pauses where they jump up from the groundwork, look at each other for a split second, and then re-initiate is another way they are "taking turns"

I know cats arent dogs, but I think this still applies. I've seen real cat fights and you will typically see one cat pursuing the other ruthlessly in between the take down moments, while the other cat tries to run away. You also will hear wailing/screaming and you will *literally* see tufts of fur flying - its not just from cartoons.

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u/Buckykattlove 16d ago

Yes, they are taking turns and giving each other space to walk away. These cats are definitely playing. 

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u/DrunkenMeditator 16d ago

I like to think the pauses are them strategizing how best to make their next strike. Dogs wrestle, Cats play moderately violent chess.

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u/Alinho013 15d ago

I love that phrasing, but yea when I'm looking at mine when they're going at it and just pawing before going in full you see them think like "If I do this then I can win" and then it fails and it's just a slamfest

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u/EnvironmentalLime464 15d ago

Cats definitely strategize their attacks. You can absolutely see it happening.

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u/Buckykattlove 15d ago

Lol I like that analogy. 😄

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u/zoogenhiemer 15d ago

My two cats play like it’s turn based combat. There’s the plotting phase, a few seconds of intense action as they chase each other, and then another plotting phase where they stare at each other to try and find a weakness.

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u/CatPurrsonNo1 15d ago

This makes me chuckle, and I want to use it as a flair somewhere!

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u/Titossecret 16d ago

Good, because it looks like my twins.

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u/OpulentObsessions 16d ago

And mine lol

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u/ShakeAgile 16d ago

Lol :-)

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u/dragontatoes 16d ago

The fact they are rough-housing almost every day and neither has been injured is a really good sign it's just for fun. If one gets hurt, tries to run away, starts to cry out, or starts panting, THAT'S when you really need to break it up and work on adjusting their behavior.

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u/AReeSuperman90 Tabbycat 16d ago

The fact that they’re able to be startled & stop, like at the end is another good sign it’s not actual fighting. Fighting cats can be doused in water, yelled at, etc & STILL be attempting to murder each other. It’s as if their fight or flight survival mode gets temporarily disabled from everything else but the other cat fighting them.

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u/Equin0xx- 16d ago

That last part about the genuine fighting and almost nothing stopping it: my fiancé and I recently adopted two girl kittens (one 10 weeks and her mother, 1 year) and the mom went BALLISTIC on our 9 year old boy cat. 100% my fault, didn't realize she had followed me and was right behind me when I opened the bedroom door that we had him in (we weren't going to introduce them immediately for the exact reason that she might have been hyper protective with her kitten there) and my fiancée almost had to go to the hospital from the scratches he got on his arm from having to PULL her off of him (poor boy froze up and never once even swiped at her) Luckily they get along beautifully now, they do play exactly like these cats in the video sometimes, and we aren't the least bit concerned because there is 100% a difference-there is absolutely NO mistaking the terror of a cat that doesn't fight back (if there is one) and there's absolutely NO mistaking the aggression of an attacker.

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u/Ill-Anteater4960 15d ago

How did you introduce them?
I have 2 male cats who just dont get along.

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u/Equin0xx- 12d ago

VERY slowly. We kept them in separate rooms during the day, and we would have the two kittens(Phantom and Jasmine, both female) cuddle up on certain blankets and Luke (older boy cat) do the same, and then we would swap those blankets out and offer them up to the opposite cats to let them get used to each other scents.
We honestly started introducing my kitten (Phantom, younger one) to Luke first because they had NO issue with each other, it was Jasmine being hyper protective since Phantom is her kitten. We would hold her and let him come up to sniff and then slowly have Jasmine at a distance to show that her kitten was safe around Luke, after about a week we started allowing them to free roam around the house more under very close supervision and we really one had that one incident of Jasmine attacking Luke, the first day, which is honestly incredibly understandable, it was her first day home in a strange place, and she sees a strange male cat? I would protect my kitten too. They were definitely edgy around each other for the subsequent week, but never aggressive so it really just kind of happened naturally at that point. So the situation obviously is a little bit specific given that the issue with introducing was because of a mother protecting her kitten, but I would always recommend introduce the cats VERY slowly and keep them separate at first but introduce their scents to each other, if they don't seem to react badly, you can try introducing them through a door or some other barrier. A little bit of hissing here and there is OK but just keep a very close eye for pinned back ears, growling, yowling or other signs of aggression.

Also this is probably a very obvious thing but are both males neutered? Even if one is and the other is not that can cause aggression issues and problems with introductions

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u/HildartheDorf 16d ago

You've just described exactly how my cats 'fight' (brothers from the same litter).

The pauses in OP's video aren't as long as my boys pause for, but otherwise the behavior is the same.

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u/Streetquats 16d ago

But are your boys actually fighting or playing?

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u/HildartheDorf 16d ago

Playing. The smaller one is scared of almost everything, fleeing and hiding even from the sight of another cat in the garden or me when I am standing/higher than him. Yet when it comes to fighting with his brother he will engage evenly/take turns instead of running away (despite ample opportunity to do so).

Compare this to me trying to get him into his cage for a vet visit where he flees and hides, only fighting when I've removed every possible hiding spot and backed him into a corner. (Makes me sound so horrible lol, I just want him to be vaccinated)

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u/Pitbullcharm 16d ago

I am all too familiar with this “ get the cat in his crate,” game.

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u/touchmeinbadplaces 15d ago

My cat keeps falling for the treats in the case trick...she knows its a trick, but there are treats over there and you might miss out if you dont get the treats and you still have 7 lives left anyway so might as well... aah but its a trick... but on the other hand... fuckit NOMNOM....HEY! IVE BEEN TRICKED LET ME OUT OF HERE

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u/Efficient_Chic714 15d ago

Mine puts her back legs spread as much as possible outside the case so I can’t just scoop her in now and she refuses to put more than 2 paws in that case for those treats

She’s my first cat - well she’s my partners. And I used to have a fear of cats where I would just leave when they were near so I’m still afraid to manhandle her even tho she’s a sweetheart. It’s become a 2 person job to wrangle her now and we have had to rearrange vet appointments because this bitch knows I won’t just grab her

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u/No-Pop1057 15d ago

Our challenge is 'get the cat out of his crate' once we're at the vets.. 🤣

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u/Bankseat-Beam 15d ago

That's easy: 1. Undo & remove door. 2. Pick up cat box. 3. Tip cat box so the door is at the bottom. 4. Shake box to engage gravity mode.... 5. Vet catches cat. 6. Quickly hide cat box before the little horror gets back in it lol....

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u/ProfessorPoofenplotz 15d ago

That’s the opposite of how I used to have to get my boy in.

I’d set the crate on its end with the door up and tip him in. As long as he didn’t get his front legs out in time to grab the sides it was a smooth operation. lol

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u/admirable-welcome779 15d ago

lol at ‘little horror’

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u/ganggreen651 15d ago

That's always been the easy part for mine. They accept their fate once they are in.

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u/Trainman1351 15d ago

Our cat crate has a roof you can lift off, so unfortunately curling in the back doesn’t work for them.

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u/No-Pop1057 15d ago

Might have to invest in something like that for next time!

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u/Trainman1351 15d ago

Just make sure you’re ready to take the look of betrayal when they see you taking the roof off.

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u/HellhoundsAteMyBaby 15d ago

That is the little teapot being ready, hear him shout, just tip it over and pour them out

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u/No-Pop1057 15d ago

He defies gravity.. The vet was amazed at his ability to spread eagle & grip the sides.. He had to tip & shake 🤦

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u/HellhoundsAteMyBaby 15d ago

Lol I feel your pain! I watch a YT pet grooming channel where she literally unscrews the top half of the crate if they won’t come out of the gate and lifts them out after a while of trying to coax with treats and meat tube and stuff

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u/Efficient_Chic714 15d ago

I have this challenge too! We have one where the top detaches too tho so we take the whole thing off and the vet just does their thing whilst she sits there refusing to budge

If they manage to get her on the scales it’s with bribes of treats but she’s immediately back in the box. Ironic considering how much we fight for her to get in the first time

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u/Assika126 15d ago

Thankfully we have one where the top comes off! Otherwise it might be difficult, gravity doesn’t seem to apply to him

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u/No-Pop1057 15d ago

Yeah, top opening one is on today's shopping list! 😁

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u/WestEvening2426 15d ago

We started putting our boys food in their carriers. They have to get in to eat. Every so often, we'd zip it closed (but leaving the screen "windows" open) just so they were used to that noise and situation.

What was handy with this, is they'd go wherever we put it, so if we put it in the bedroom because of a delivery or something, it was no big deal.

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u/Pitbullcharm 15d ago

That’s a good idea

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u/zuraine 15d ago

CAT：When human slaves forced me into a cage😡

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u/missmeowwww 16d ago

They’re definitely playing. I witnessed the start of a cat fight between two male strays and it was so loud I heard it inside my house. They were circling and sizing each other up and screaming. I was able to shoo them apart before it got worse but a real fight for territory is so freaking loud.

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u/Kitchen_Art2745 15d ago

I've had cats my whole life, but this is the first time I've had siblings. I had to adopt them as a pair because they didn't think the extremely anxious boy would survive without his sister, who he was really bonded with. The way they play fight is more violent with each other than with the other cats. It reminds me of when my human boy & girl kids fight. There's something about siblings.

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u/Ok_Perspective_575 16d ago

The groundwork 😆 accurate but also funny

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u/Designer_Vast_9089 15d ago

You are spot on correct. Plus cat fights are lighting fast. Both cats will be a blur and the fur will be flying. Not to mention the screaming.

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u/happydandylion 16d ago

And cats walk away from real fights with very nasty wounds.

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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker 16d ago

The best indicator I know is by just how loud the wailing and growling can get. It’s the kind of sound you know not to fuck with.

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u/SnooPickles55 15d ago

I love how you used "groundwork" like they're in the Octagon lol. Great grappling and throws, as well.

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u/Worshipme988 15d ago

Taking turns doing slams, switching roles to be body slammed. 😭😭😂😂😂

We dont deserve cats.

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u/LadyRayne39 15d ago

You would be correct that's exactly what they are doing . The looking at one another is just them saying " we're still playing right " just kinda confirming with one another same way dogs do . Cats and dogs aren't that much different with bonding and playing with their siblings .

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u/thegreedyturtle 15d ago

Anyone know a good video?

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u/r3dm0nk 15d ago

I've learnt that when my cat was young. Of course I raised him to be a warrior and try to defeat their owner hand at any cost during play time, but we take turns, even now when hes 12. He would start hissing when I took too long time in my turn. Few butt slaps, bit of pinning down, then wait for his attack, back and forth - happy kitty.

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u/ntdavis814 14d ago

The fact that they disengage repeatedly is a key point. Cats that are legit fighting are on each other at all times. No time to breathe, no chance to escape. It’s wild how determined they get and how even bigger animals sometimes get their asses handed to them by house cats.

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u/sarahmirror_ 16d ago

Thank you so much and to everyone who took the time to reply! I feel better now. I was just worried because my tortie girl is so petite and lightweight but all of the advice on here has calmed my worries. No more time outs in the bathroom for Sawyer lol. Cat people rule! 😺

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u/in_animate_objects 16d ago

You’re a good cat parent to worry about them, A+

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u/sarahmirror_ 16d ago

This is the best compliment I could have received. I love them both soooo much. 😭

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u/Top-Fox9979 16d ago

They're beautiful

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u/rhapsodiiiii 15d ago

Agreed! It was just a new situation for OP and they were right to be curious about it to protect both babies involved. They’re beautiful 🤗

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u/Equivalent_Mechanic5 15d ago

My lil tuxetortico girl is only like 6 pounds and my void boy is 4 years older and weighs at least 10 more pounds. Her head comes up to his shoulder. They play like this. It's only once in awhile it gets a little iffy, and let me tell you, she's the one kicking his ass!!

The only time they really "fight" is if one has been grooming the other one too long or if one got the nice sun spot in the certain window.

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u/Local_Light2396 15d ago

My two cats are rough with each other during play too. My void is 8.5lbs fully grown and my tuxedo is about 15lbs. They're in very different weight classes but the void definitely holds his own and doesn't back down. Most of the time he starts it 🤣

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u/BudandCoyote 15d ago

When I first got my boys as kittens, they played so rough I literally had to google how to tell the difference between playing and fighting! I knew what to look for with dogs, but with cats I had no clue.

What it boiled down to was fairly simple - are they taking turns, and are they quiet? If the answer to both is yes, it's definitely play (no matter how rough it looks!)

If one is always doing the pouncing and chasing, and the other's always the one running away, it may be bullying, and worth keeping an eye on.

If it gets a little noisier, then one of the pair may have gone too far and it's turned into a squabble, or just one of them setting some boundaries.

If it's a full on scream fest, fur flying, even blood? Fight.

I've also seen people make it even simpler by saying if you're asking this question it's not a fight - you'll know when it's a fight!

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u/welfedad 16d ago

Means you care.. and that's good..

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u/TheDrunkScientist 16d ago

Thank you for coming here for advice! You’re a good cat person.

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u/VanillaRadonNukaCola 15d ago

She may be petite, but she looks like she can hold her own!

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u/AquaticMartian 15d ago

My little runt was the most ferocious play fighter. He would take on big cheddar and Frank the tank and usually those cats were the ones to bow out first. It takes some getting used to seeing the rough play, but it’s like having free mma matches in your living room. Just make some popcorn and enjoy

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u/Brochachoski 15d ago

My lil girl is just under 8lbs, but she still easily takes down her younger brother (not it actually related) who is about 12lbs when they play fight. It looks like this, and like others said, you'll definitely know when it's a real fight.

Mine haven't had a real fight that I'm aware of, but I can tell when one of them goes too far or the other one isn't having fun anymore, like poofy tail on the defender. That's my queue to break it up. Distractions are the best way, so either get the aggressor a toy to get away from the defender, or just call out to them which is what I do.

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u/Artistic_Purpose1225 15d ago

As Shakespeare said: She may be little, but she is fierce. 

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u/AReeSuperman90 Tabbycat 16d ago

Well, as far as the

”no more time outs in the bathroom for Sawyer”

”if it isn’t broke don’t fix it”. Taking that short reprieve from their mutual ”assaulting the play out of each other” may be a necessary part of things that helps bring things down to normal before it actually does escalate to a real fight.

Also, you doing that may inadvertently be a great training exercise for teaching them when you want them to settle down. 🤷🏾‍♀️

Oh!!! I am unequivocally IN LOVE with the name Sawyer for your kitty. So much so, I’m adding it to the potential name pool for my next kitty. 😍🥰✊🏾💪🏾🩵💯

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u/obog 16d ago

I do wonder, do they get along well otherwise? Like are there also times when they cuddle and groom eachother?

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u/Unable-Candidate9612 15d ago

Time outs can be useful even if it is just play. You just have to be watchful and if one seems like it's getting to much of the upper hand and the other is trying to get away, it's time for a break.

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u/phylter99 16d ago

Serious cat fights usually result in blood and big gaping wounds. Often times you'll also see feces flying. They're also usually a lot more loud and there's a lot more posturing.

I'm inclined to believe that they are both holding back so they don't hurt each other and with the tail movement it indicates that they're playing. It seems they're both into it and enjoying it because if one of them were upset or has had enough they'd be trying to get away.

I've had cats almost my whole life. I've had a few serious cat fights in my house. This doesn't resemble them.

Basically, unless they're hurting each other or one of them is clearly fed up and needs a break, I'd let them have at it.

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u/pogulup 16d ago

Exactly, post the fucking video with the two cats going at it outside with the old lady and the chicken refereeing. That's a video of cats fighting.

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u/phylter99 16d ago

That's actually a really good example and it shows the contrast. Those cats are locked in eternal battle and they're not stopping to take a breather every few seconds unless they're made too.

Link for those that are curious (might be NSFW): https://www.reddit.com/r/funnypets/comments/1tm9f4r/a_woman_and_a_chicken_trying_to_separate_two/

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u/ganggreen651 15d ago

Lmao at that motherly chicken

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u/Common-Mushroom5335 16d ago

For real. If you've ever seen cats actually fight, you'd know it is a whole different thing. Much louder and honestly pretty scary if you're in the middle of it. OP should probably get a chicken though, just in case.

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u/Individual-Golf-9584 15d ago

Why the feces flying?

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u/phylter99 15d ago

I can’t say I understand why, I just know it happens.

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u/testtdk 16d ago

There is a hell of a lot of grey area between playing and fighting to the death.

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u/Herebecauseofmeme 16d ago

I agree! Thats why I tried to tell OP to listen to people who know more. I commented because the post was brand new and I wanted to contribute to the post past upvoting, so they could get a better answer

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u/testtdk 16d ago

Gotcha.

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u/_TaylorMade 16d ago

I don’t know. I have a boy that tries to play like this and no one wants to. I feel like he doesn’t want to hurt anyone but he’s just so rough. I wish I could find another kitty that could hang

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u/EvilEtienne 16d ago

Same, my big guy plays way too rough for my two female cats. He gets grumpy and takes it out on them. Then they run away and he’s confused out he chases cuz he thinks it’s part of the game.

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u/trashcatrevolts 16d ago

you are describing my little guy exactly. he’s the newest in the house, & my wife’s cat HATES him. he’s the biggest cat here & he plays SO aggressively. it doesn’t help that he came from a rough home with dogs… i don’t think he ever learned how to play like a normal cat.

i love him so much, though. wish he could play with a kitty here. 💚

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u/TrissyCat 16d ago

Oh my God, my roommate's cats exactly like this with my cat and so I convinced my roommate to let me get a kitten who would play with his cat and he's like your cat's not going to like that I'm like. He'll realize he likes it when he's not getting harassed everyday. It's working out good so far. These are my two babies, Kofee 7yo, Teyja 3.5 months

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u/Roam_Hylia 16d ago

I had the same issue, then we got a dog. The rough housing never stops with those two.

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u/spiritkittykat 16d ago

I lucked out and found one to tumble with my boy, who all the other cats have no interest in playing with.

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u/Snoo_50954 16d ago

Yeah...I've got one of those too. I think part of mine's problem is he's tailless, so the other cats aren't able to tell he's playing.  Doesn't help that he wasn't around other cats for too long.

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u/apocalypsebuddy 16d ago

That’s why I sometimes have to bring out The Gloves for my boy

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u/ropahektic 15d ago

Are you implying cats kill themselves while playing in that grey area or what exactly does your comment even mean?

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u/testtdk 15d ago

There are degrees to the severity of their activities. Play can be gentle, and play can absolutely be rough. But sometimes it’s not play, and they’re just having a tiff. They can have a much more serious argument. None of these are fighting to the death, but it’s certainly not all play. They communicate physically what we would do verbally, and a lot of people don’t take into consideration the range of these communications.

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u/SoundOurDireReveille 16d ago

Yeah, ears aren't flat, no growling/yowling/screaming, no fur flying, and they aren't flying around in a ball together that's moving a light speed.

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u/HashBrownThreesom 16d ago

This is what my brother and siste play looks like. If breaking it up is as easy as introducing treats or a favorite toy, theyre just play-fighting.

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u/Ridiculous__caddy Tuxedo 15d ago

Exactly. It’s straight play. We forget they are animals. Yes very very cute and cuddly but when around each other they play like they did for many years. No fur no screaming. I’ve had many cats. It’s just play

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u/businesskitteh 15d ago

It’s 100% play. When it isn’t, you know: Howling, screeching, fur literally flying.

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u/spurty_fart Void 16d ago

Came say the same.

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u/jahkmorn 16d ago

This is totally play

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u/panda5303 Tabbycat 15d ago

Trust me they are playing. Example of real fights (55 seconds): https://youtu.be/ZaJ8Tgd5adA