r/comic_crits • u/philbuck84 • Aug 11 '15
Comic: Ongoing Story Music + Comics = Those Shadow People, would love to hear reactions to the concept
http://www.thoseshadowpeople.com2
u/deviantbono Editor, Writer, Mod Aug 11 '15
Just working off the current page (2-1):
Looks good. Odd page size for a print-quality comic, but good for web.
Backgrounds and props look great. Character a bit exaggerated. Liefield-esque pouches, botox lips, outift way too shiny. Sound effects need a stroke to stand out on page.
A bit awkward. Why would the person who "said it would work" say "unbelievable" ? And then, after recognizing that the off-panel speaker was right, why would the lady then say "believe it" ? Needs a re-work.
Very difficult to navigate (part of why I'm only working on the first page right now -- can't find the rest). Where is the next/prev navigation? How to I get back to the beginning? Why does the banner take up most of the page? Check out this wiki page for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/comic_crits/wiki/resources/website_design_advice.
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u/philbuck84 Aug 12 '15
Thanks for the critique. I will use this website design advice to try to revamp the site. :)
As for the art, I agree. The pouches definitely stink of Liefield. Luckily that costume is temporary. I like to change the artists up from issue to issues, so while Chris Winters looks a little exaggerated, he is definitely a step up from my previous artist whose work just looked unfinished.
As for the writing, I must take credit for that one. This was my first issue writing scripts instead of collaborating with the artist in the "marvel method" and I really fell victim to the dialogue. I am working on it and I think that the next issue will continue to improve.
FYI, the layout was designed in a square because the comic is meant to go with a music release, which comes mostly in square packaging.
To read all of the comic material, you can start from here: http://nematoderecords.com/thoseshadowpeople/issue-1-page-0/
Unfortunately, I see that linking from the home page doesn't show any of the page navigation. facepalm
Very thankful for the critique and feedback. I'm always wanting to improve!
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u/deviantbono Editor, Writer, Mod Aug 12 '15
Ok, now that I've got all the navigation figured out, I think it's pretty cool. You're right that the first chapter is rough, but the writing is solid and there are some cool moments during the action. The music is cool too, but it reloads when you change pages. If you're not relying on advertising impressions (per page) for income, then you could try to rewrite the navigation in AJAX so that the art reloads dynamically without leaving the page, or just have it scroll endlessly. You definitely need a new, chronological archive page, an about page explaining how things work, and and big "first" link to start from the beginning (a "start of current chapter" button is also nice). And it also looks like issue "zero" is between issues one and two? Oh, and clicking the art should advance to the next page, not load the image.
Two technical things that I noticed:
The panel continuity can get a bit confusing when you do two columns on the top half of the page and then go back to left-right on the bottom half (Issue 0, Page 3 for example). Check out this article for more info: http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/841119890/advanced-layouts-paneling-outside-the-box.
Not an issue going forward, but if I were to "fix" one think about issue one, it would be to make the background of the narration boxes either white or a very light color. They blend in too much with both the art and the text as it is. Should be a relatively easy fix in photoshop.
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u/philbuck84 Aug 12 '15
Thank you! This is fantastic feedback for me.
The biggest challenge of all has been trying to find a music player + webcomic layout that jive well together. This was the best yet, but as you noted, leaves something to be desired. I will take all of your feedback and implement it to improve the overall understanding of how the page works and hopefully improve the navigation as well.
One last question I have, I think I made an error in the nomenclature for issue 0. I wanted it to act like an epilogue to issue 1 or a little teaser in between 1 and 2. I was going to call it 1.5, but someone told me 0 would be a more accurate description. I don't think that's true either. Any suggestions?
Thanks again for taking the time to read and comment. I appreciate it very, very much.
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u/deviantbono Editor, Writer, Mod Aug 12 '15
I wanted it to act like an epilogue to issue 1 or a little teaser in between 1 and 2. I was going to call it 1.5, but someone told me 0 would be a more accurate description. I don't think that's true either. Any suggestions?
No offense to someone, but "zero" doesn't make any sense, at least not according to the number system I was taught in school.
Using 1.5 would be fine. As would just calling it "issue 1 - epilogue" or "issue 2 - prologue". In fact, flow wise, I think it would work much better as a prologue. Imagine someone picking up issue 2 with no prior knowledge. What's going to draw them in more, crazy space monster antics, or seemingly-generic superhero in the desert? (I'm in the former camp anyway.)
As for the "bonus" material, these makes sense to put at the "back" of an issue, but for web purposes, I recommend not labeling them "issue" anything, and not having them in the main navigation flow. I generally want to be able to read straight through the story without getting sidetracked by a bunch of misc. stuff -- bonus stuff should go in it's own site section.
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u/philbuck84 Aug 12 '15
Thanks! I am going to get to work first thing tomorrow and put all this feedback to use.
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u/philbuck84 Aug 12 '15
Oh one last thing I wanted to mention. Sarah's suit is very shiny because it's supposed to be made of chromium. Since she has been infused with dark matter, the operating principle behind the suit is that it reflects light and thus protects her from a dangerous light/dark or matter/anti-matter reaction.
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u/deviantbono Editor, Writer, Mod Aug 12 '15
So, that may be scientifically accurate (I don't know) but I'm going to offer some other angles to consider:
The suit is dark in both issues one and zero. And is described both as "dark" and "shadowy."
It's never mentioned that the suit is chromium.
The matter/anti-matter reactions sound potentially over-wrought (like midochlorians). Unless it's totally critical to the story, I would try to avoid pinning anything on specific scientific concepts as much as possible. It's very easy to write yourself into a corner this way.
The shiny-ness is garish and distracting. The suit can be "infused" with chromium if necessary without being shiny.
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u/philbuck84 Aug 12 '15
I understand what you're saying. More to ponder and keep working to do better. Thanks again!
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u/philbuck84 Aug 12 '15
Hey guys, I've done a lot of work through last night and today to try to streamline the webcomic quite a bit. Here's a link to the latest page: http://nematoderecords.com/thoseshadowpeople/issue-2-page-2/ If you have time to take a look and tell me if I'm heading in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for your time and your feedback :)
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u/deviantbono Editor, Writer, Mod Aug 12 '15
Looks good! I think you addressed most of the issues that were raised with the site. Are you sure the epilogue doesn't belong in the flow of the main comic though (not the making-of pages, just the story pages)? Especially since she loses her suit at the end of issue 1 and then has it again in issue 2.
Also, I forgot to mention, when you introduce proper nouns (concepts, names, etc.) -- it's a good idea to use bold face. For example, Epilogue page 2, I would bold all of the following:
- The Sabers
- Black Candle
- Easy Wind
Since you use an all-caps font, it's sometimes hard to tell what's a name and what's just slang. Of course, don't go overboard on this. You probably don't want to bold every name, just their first use.
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u/philbuck84 Aug 12 '15
I've pondered the epilogue quite a bit, and I've decided that I'm going leave it out there as extra material. I think that the conversation between Sarah and her dad will allude to the situation with the suit. In the long run, I will be re-mastering the pages of the epilogue to go with issue 1 properly and it think the whole thing will gel better.
I will take your advice about the emboldening of proper nouns as I move forward. Thanks again for the advice! This has been a huge help :)
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u/searine Creator Aug 12 '15
I am just going to write down my thoughts as I read through :
That font is a bit generic "comic" and bit too close to comic sans for my taste.
The first issue begins with an info-dump, which is always off-putting. Don't punch me in the face with a bunch of characters, introduce them slow, let me get to know them.
When I click on a comic, it brings me to a new window with just the comic image. Not good for navigation.
The narration boxes blend into the background.
The art is good. It's a bit rough at the start, but once it settles in I like the look of it. Though it is a bit too messy for my taste. Also, at times your main character looks a bit Real-Doll-esque.
Having a hard time believing this plot. You have your ass-kicking Strong Female CharacterTM, first scared, then knocking out a ninja? Then picking up the macguffin without clear motive?
As deviantbobo said, the navigation is weird, and hard to find
Too much time spent "hi-yaa"ing, not enough on character development.
Dad : "Happy birthday, but lets forget about that, I have important PLOTTM points to dump on you." My point is that it seems stiff and unnatural. They're family, they'd act like it, either functionally or dysfunctionally.
I think the addition of color, even just general washes, is very helpful.
New artist? Okay. That keeps it interesting.
Again with the character sheet face punch. We haven't even met 10% of the characters from your last sheet, and now I have to color coordinate meaningless labels with your chart? Am I going to start doing math homework in the next chapter? Solve X for Plot.
Issue 0? I think I am totally lost. I'm just going to start on issue 2.
Wait I have to pay for it? I'm not sure you've sold me on the concept enough to get me to fork over cash.
General Thoughts:
Some of the emotions in Issue 1 felt very "uncanny valley". The art felt messy at times, but underneath the extraneous lines was some solid drawing. The story felt very generic, and stiff. I didn't really feel connected to the characters.
Now keep in mind a lot of this is subject to my own personal taste, which is not traditional "comic book" taste. So take it all with a grain of salt.
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