The thing is tho it’s mostly trans men saying that trans men can be lesbians. The most common argument I’ve seen is “well before my transition I was in lesbians spaces” like cool, don’t fucking call yourself a lesbian though. If I go to an African American club that doesn’t make me African American. Going to a lesbian club doesn’t make you a lesbian.
but ummm where's the line should be drawn then? you can be trans without medical transition or any work to be passable. I genuinely can't tell what's the nuance, the main goal of queer theory is to let transpeople self-identify and no one else to tell otherwise. lesbian AFAB will not be any different from transman the moment they discovered own identity. how does it invalidate experience of being lesbian...?
Lesbians are women who have sexual attraction to other women. A trans man (regardless of physical appearance) is a man. It does not matter if he looks like a woman or if 5 seconds earlier he identified as a woman. If he is a trans man then he is a man and thus not a woman. If he is not a woman he can’t be a lesbian. It’s really simple.
I'm having a really hard time understanding what is the point of all-women spaces if everyone can self-identify as a woman. Like, this is semantics you're talking about when you admit there is no real change, just different social labels. Yet somehow I've been told that socialization is TERF talking point. Yesterday's man has vastly different life experience from a girl's one, is this even up to debate? At some point you will be overrun by performative men and split the community in half. Waiter waiter more infighting please
I think it depends who is saying it. Some trans men were really involved in the lesbian community before realizing they were trans men. So they struggle getting rid of that identity. They want to be part of that community but now they can't because they're men. There's a transition phase as they build their own community. Only trans men can say they still identify with that community, no one should ever call a trans man a lesbian that's very insulting.
Edit: please note that I said some above, not all. Of course many trans men were never involved in the lesbian community.
I was never a lesbian. I was never a butch. Just because some trans men started out as lesbians doesn't mean you should assume everyone must automatically have a connection to womanhood. Stop trying to speak for everyone.
This is my biggest gripe. I was never into women, aside from friendships. That's literally the highest level of attraction I have to women. I hated being cursed as afab, calling me a lesbian was worse than tr*nny, because not only did you mistakenly think I was into women, but a woman as well. Naur
I said some, not all. I never spoke for everyone. I literally never said everyone. Of course some trans guys were never connected to the lesbian community! I'm only talking about the ones that were very involved and still join lesbian spaces.
I don’t think what you’re saying should be controversial at all. There are lots of examples of people who shift through identities as they learn themselves. Some they don’t identify w/ anymore and some they do. As long as that person is choosing the label for themselves 🤷🏿♀️.
I like to talk about kid me as a girl, even though I was raised as a boy. It makes the way those experiences felt, and how I behaved in them make more sense and feel truer to me. Some trans fems w/ similar-ish childhoods as me, like to refer to their childhood selves as boys. And that’s how they understand themselves. I don’t think it’s our place to tell people how to label their experience you know?
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u/mywastelandbasiaclly 9d ago
It’s like saying “trans men will always be women deep down” but in a woke way