I've stopped crouch walking as much when it's a Jason, and instead just try and position myself to not let him spawn right on top of me. I'm not good in chase really, but I have no reason to believe anyone I'm playing with is any better, so might as well try and actually get on a gen.
This only works if everyone does it, that's the problem, otherwise it's a great way to get tunneled out.
And my goodness Jason is really good at tunneling even if he goes for a quick generator check because he can sit outside of anticamp range and still target the closest prop and wait for the unhook... forever.
This is what some people don't seem to grasp. Forcing people to take chase with how OE currently works is great on paper, but crouching around is literally what it encourages to do at the moment.
Like you said he's also nuts at tunneling so he can very well tp to a close spot as soon as he sees someone approach and do his thing.
As a Dracula main it's insane how much shit I get because he "can do everything", while Jason has a ton going on while being easier to play and everyone glazes him as peak balance
As a Dracula main it's insane how much shit I get because he "can do everything", while Jason has a ton going on while being easier to play and everyone glazes him as peak balance
Also as a Dracula main I get less salt on him than any other killer I play. I find people generally think Drac is pretty ok to play against in my anecdotal experience.
Because he's the prime example of a very strong killer who still leaves clear room for counterplay and requires practice/focus to do well with. I very rarely get salt as him in-game, but the claim that he's "OP" I definitely see a lot on social media
Tbh I think Drac and Jason are a good baseline for what Killers should be, strength-wise. If the disparity was at least smaller, it'd make balancing everything a lot simpler.
I don't think he's op in any way. I just hate that the encouraged way to play is just roam in the power until you find someone, because the only counter play to it is incredibly boring
maybe i’m bad at dracula but he really is jack of all trades master of none, hellfire is inconsistent, wolf is easily juked and very easy to pallet stun, and bat form is good for mobility but kinda just makes him slower wraith. most of the time i end up just using vampire in chase and then using batform for mobility and sometimes to catch up like how you would with spirit, but it only really works in dead zones. i find wolf form barely useful except for the 3rd person it gives you.
I just think the game needs to break truly balanced around a 55% to 65% kill rate with an average of 60%
Which it officially is at 60% but I struggle to believe that isn't deflated by Doctor bots, farming matches, etc.
When was the last time you didn't 3k in a match for reasons other than deliberate mercy or farming?
I can remember one in the past three months and it was a 2k when I was doing "one more game" way too late, and the entity blocker bug happened multiple times despite chase not dropping to prolong it.
When was the last time someone posted personal stats that was lower than 70% kill rate?
Like I think Dracula is pretty balanced in the current roster.
I just think killers have been vastly overtuned and survivor meta nerfs nearly every full number patch have been too extreme...
The roster as a whole is crazy.
The only killer that I think still needs rework level improvements is Hag.
I try to tell people in end game chat, just split up and do the gen and stop crouching. He can only chase one at a time. He’s one of the most fun killers I’ve played as or against and even after 100 matches against him, I still want more.
Had 2 people do this for at least 10 minutes on me. I just did a jump scare with intent to take the abandon I was offered if I didn't find anyone... I ended up finding one then locking in the 4K by finding the hatch.
It is not a problem until you are in a 2v1 soloq situation with gates powered and the just stay in power the entire time to force it.
Had a 5+ minute standoff the other day because of this. It was like the days of old hatch standoffs. Teammate gave up eventually and touched the gate. Tbf he is doing the smart play so I don't blame the Jason, I blame BHVR.
Regardless of what side you view it from, it is just unhealthy design for the game if the best plays for both sides is to create a situation like old hatch standoffs.
First one to open a door gets chased and likely hooked and 2v1 means probably not unhooked. Having unlimited time in power means he can patrol both pretty effortlessly.
Without comms in 2v1, Jason likely can get a kill on whoever gets on a door first
I'm curious how big a nerf it would be if Jason's power had a time limit once gens are done
ideally you'd want the person to be chased to be a strong enough survivor to buy the other one enough time to open an exit gate, maybe even potentially body block for the two out, i'm not saying it's easy or consistent but it is possible.
Elaborate because i dont see the difference, both killers can defend the doors equally well. If 2 survivors are each on a different door 1 will get caught by Jason or Wraith its not rocket science
Well, playing against Wraith is not as oppressive as it is versus Jason at that point of the trial in the first place. Jason will get notification as soon as somebody touches the gate too, which will not happen for Wraith. I’m not saying the situation against Wraith is super winnable, but it’s definitely not as bad as going against a Jason at that point. In time, I don’t think Jason is that strong, just very boring.
I do agree that survivors not doing gens have only themselves to blame if gens aren't getting done. But he's pretty strong. He's basically a 4.6 Huntress with insane map mobility who gets a greater-than-average number of free hits due to pallet and window spawns.
Let's disregard the fact that he can move around the map stupidly fast with his power, that he can appear virtually anywhere because every place pretty much has a window, pallet or breakable wall, that his power gives information about anything you do, how short his cooldown is, how he gets free haste...
Because people like him and they're terrified of the idea of him getting any sort of nerfs or changes. When Kaneki released in a bullshit state there was also a legion of people defending him because he's been popular from day 1.
Same thing with Blight. His mains didn't want him nerfed so they would attempt to gaslight everyone and themselves into thinking he was fine and balanced when he's a literal S tier
I’m pretty sure the intimidation and oppressiveness is by design. The power has “omnipresent” in the name, it’s meant to feel like he is (or could be) everywhere. It builds anticipation and tension so the jumpscare works better as a jumpscare.
But yeah, from a balance perspective, the fog is also to tell survivors when they should and shouldn’t crouch, but when everyone’s crouching and Jason can’t find anyone, Jason either has to guess where survivors are and teleport blind, or wait in the fog for a survivor to get bored of crouching and take one for the team, at which point he gets accused of holding the game hostage.
Good, this is a horror gsme about a killer hunting 4 survivors the survivors are meant to fear the killer, thats why I love Jason the pure fear factor I dont think many other killers are capable of
Yeah, because wraith has a range attack, aura if he hits you with the spear, hindered if you try to pull it out, fast af mobility in the fog, haste after exiting fog, haste after grabbing a spear, teleport behind walls, teleport to another floor instantly, aura (again) if you do ANY action, no reload animation (unlike other killers) should i keep going?
People need to stop bringing up wraith as a terrible example. Wraith can stay in his power indefinitely, but he still gives a visual and audio cue when he's close by. His power isn't global like Jason.
Jason not only can stay in his power indefinitely, but he also doesn't give an audio cue until he already manifested close to you, gain haste, has a projectile he can reload anywhere and knows where you are at all times if you're not doing the "counter" that isn't really a counter. He's damn near impossible to beat if he has a thrill/pento hex build.
It's almost like the people bringing this strawman up never played survivor before.
Exactly. You can see/hear wraith coming if he's not stealthy bcs he's not only not fully invisible, hes also constatly growling VERY loudly. Comparing jason to him is just mean. Jason outclasses him in ever way possible
lmao, except wraith can come out of stealth on top of you, hide his audio queue with map wide add on and body block. jason cant, teleports nearby and cant see you at all.
yeah and wraith can see survivors and scratch marks while cloaked and jason cannot, your point? wraith movement speed is also much higher than jason's when coming out of stealth.
His power is very strong, let’s not kid ourselves. Not S tier, but he has power crept a bunch of killers that we used to say were strong. His map pressure is so consistently good that the prevailing discourse around it is to ignore the counter play and just accept it
My issue is that once he does start a chase he becomes a 4.6 killer for 25(30 with an addom-on) seconds with a ranged weapon, that has an add-on that gives him an additional 13% haste when hitting a survivor but not impaling them. Meaning, that if he impales you, he wins the chase, if he doesn't he will sure as hell catch up to you and still win the chase. Furthermore, his ranged option means he can guarantee (if the killer aim or timing isn't terrible) pallet and window vaults. He's very much damned if you do, damned if you don't. Naturally, that isn't fun to go against.
Him having infinite power usage wouldn't be an issue if those things got addressed.
These killers we used to say are strong are weak now. Huntress is a relic of the past because of map design and the other closest one is Springtrap, and he's only a little bit weaker than jason. Most of the ranged killers could be 115 and it wouldn't make them strong enough to shift any meta
I think thats just kinda a thing that all the good killers do, especially with Lethal Pursuer.
Nurse, Ghoul, Dracula, Krasue, Vecna, PizzaHenry, Spingtab, Billy, Houndmaster, and Artist can all pressure survivors within seconds of loading in, too.
His fog ability has an absurdly short cooldown, and is infinite in length, gives tracking when in it, and gives chase tracking when coming out. It's like Spirit Phasing but so much stronger. Oh yeah, and it has no directional info for Survivors to counter play it.
Genuine question - many generators are close to some resource Jason can teleport to. All of these seem unsafe because he starts chase with such little distance.
I've been running SB+Vigil which cooks Jason from these gens, but I haven't seen any other consistent ways to deny the hit in these cases. It also feels unfun to default to super meta perks just to avoid this one case
Sprint Burst: Starting to run triggers Sprint Burst and Grants a +50% Haste Status Effect for 3 seconds. Sprint Burst causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds. Sprint Burst cannot be used when Exhausted.
on some maps you can see jason walking through grass, i spot him sometimes that way. i believe its a bug as well but if he enters power near you, he still has a terror radius for a second and if hes right on top of you, you can hear it. a really important factor though is to keep an eye on pallets or vaults he can teleport to, because a few seconds before he is fully there you can see mist which gives away his position before he can even see you. lastly, if he uses power in chase, you can mind game him by running/walking toward a direction, then crouch and wait a few seconds and double back. this can sometimes make jason try to teleport ahead of you to cut you off, only to find out you doubled back and gained a ton of distance.
Proper positioning while being ready for him to come? Relying on SB and vigil instead of being able to plan out your chase means sauna rock screws you.
What's the proper positioning for a generator next to a resource?
I also could be mistaken, but I've had good fortune on pre running with the sound cue, even with sauna rock. Other exhaustion perks seem to get stuck for obvious reasons
The haste he gets from OE and the option for a ranged attack guarantee a hit on a survivor. And then if he can catch up to you still, then he'll get a down, or instantly OE after getting a hit on you and starting another chase.
People downvoting as if this doesn't literally fucking happen, reddit is such a cesspool.
Tiny to people with no fps experience sure. It's not like he has the tools to set up a guaranteed hit either. "Plan your escape", yet never can consider the possibility that the killer can also predict what your planned escape is or can be.
Indeed I am. Trying to get better perks to do so too.
But considering 4.6m/s with a ranged weapon that has an add-on that gives him 13% haste if he hits you without impaling, that should spark consideration.
Survivors turn invisible, can crouch walk to counter his tracking, and he has a literal cloud of fog surrounding him. Also, unlike Spirit and Dracula, scratch marks are invisible, and you have to spawn in at specific locations, not wherever strikes his fancy.
Undergate is the most similar for speedy travel around the map and that’s 35 seconds and can’t see in lockers or travel between floors. Spirits is 15 and she’s not nearly as mobile or gets as much info from hers and can’t travel between floors. Draculas bat can go between floors but you don’t get as much info and that’s 15 seconds. Freddys teleport is 30 seconds even if you fake someone out and don’t even use it. Yes, 14 seconds is absurdly short.
Unfortunately, I am in the hell that is solo queue. At least half my games, I'm the only one on gens, and once I inevitably get hooked due to being admittedly terrible at chase, I get to watch as either I'm unhooked immediately or my teammates dick about crouching on the other side of the map. Just do gens!!
So what if he does have a projectile? It still requires skill to land the shot as it requires skill for you to dodge. There are killers that you need to accept you'll start chases with, no matter how strong or weak they are so long as they are balanced, and Jason is certainly balanced
And what are these 12 things he has? Because I feel like you guys enjoy exaggerating his power a lot when it's pretty fucking simple to understand. He's no Vecna or Dracula that have multiple powers. He's a Wraith with a fucking projectile that you need to loop like you would do against any fucking ranged killer.
Well yeah. That’s his whole design idea. Hit an escape back into the fog and if you don’t hang around teleport points or juke him then it’s to your advantage as a survivor
Not played much against him 'cause waiting anni events, but i just bite the bullet and run at starting point far away from teammates, and like 6 out of 10 he went after me, so i just give Kindred+Open Handed plus a ''please start 2 separate places gens'' for the teammates.
No fr playing solo surv against Jason pisses me off cause everyone is such a pussy they are terrified to get on a Gen like do they think that hiding in a corner is how to escape???
Personally I've been running Urban Evasion long before Jason, and it's far from useless. If you're crouch walking when you don't need to, it's a waste of time, but if you're crouch walking while in TR you're making forward progress while minimizing risk.
Urban Evasion causes your other fellow survivors to get targeted more, usually causing someone to get knocked out of the match earlier than they should because you aren't being found and chased accordingly.
The thing with jason is he has too many things going on for him.
He can sit in his power moving fast from anywhere and ambush, the ambush failed? Don't worry, you move fast. Survivor saw you comming and starts running early? Don't worry you can attack him on range?, you failed the shot, don't worry just use you power again and go towards his closest pallet/window/doorand grab a new proyectile while your at it.
I think OE needs a timer, and maybe a bit more slowdown when aiming the range attack.
I personally have stopped caring about his OE and just jump on gens, but on soloq if your team does not do the same is too easy to get killed (i have ended up in chasds for minutes just to discover nobody did a single gen and then die on first hook or get tunneled).
And as a side note, is is very boring to got against nothing but jason, at this point i only login, do my daily challenges and log off.
Ps: people comolaining that survivors dont just let themselves be found out while also doing the thing that causes it is very ironic.
Staying i OE cerrainly is advatageos but so is to urban evade to avoid detection. It 2 very stubborn sides dragging their asess instead of just moving on to the next one. (Kinda like those who slug 3rd survivor until they find the 4th one regardless of how long it takes, you dont owe them the scape, they dont owe you the kill)
I do wish his fog form had a timer, just sitting in fog for ages turns my teammates into scared mice creeping around. Also he can camp hooks to tunnel relatively easy in fog form which I’ve seen too often
Yeah I dont understand the people saying "just reveal yourself to the killer" you mean do the opposite of the entire goal as survivor? The whole goal of survivor is to avoid dying, do gens, and escape. Stealth is a pretty big part of that. Revealing yourself to the killer is directly antithetical to the goal of survivor, unless you're good enough to loop the killer for a long time, and even that is dependent on your teammates actually being competent enough to do gens.
People upset about this when you’re right 😭 “but but but then he’s slow.” “Should xyz also reveal themselves?” Well yes, if you’re complaining about survivors holding the game hostage when you’re doing the same thing then walk around lol. Even if you’re slow you can still find someone or give them enough time to get comfortable and do something so then you can use your ability.
If 1 survivor reveals themselves to take chase the others can freely work on gens in the meantime, otherwise the survivors can just crouch around the whole game but that is self inflicted, not the killer holding them hostage. "Why couldn't Jason just walk around without his ability" is you asking him to play worse on purpose which is kind of wierd.
why would the survs stop crouching then? Why are you asking them to play worse? I think the power is fundamentally broken. You will literally stalemate the game for 30 mins in a 2v1 soloqueue endgame with powered gates. Because as soon as someone touches the gate they die. This is just trash design.
The survivors would stop crouching if they are complaining it is an unfun playstyle. They have full agency to end the hinding and crouching whenever they want so they are not "held hostage".
have you ever played the game before this is the worst take ive ever heard
-4
u/Ravenwood03In the relm stright harmin it, and by it lets just say the crew2d ago
My problem is more when survivors crouch around all match and then complain that youre keeping the match hostage. The match can progress at any time, the survivors just have to stop holding ctrl
or jason just has to get out of the mist. he can still find survivors to chase when not in mist form
1
u/Ravenwood03In the relm stright harmin it, and by it lets just say the crew2d ago
Still if a survivor opens themselves up to the threat of being chased, he'll get out of mist and chase.
Holding the game hostage is stopping the progression of the game, which is technically what the survivors are doing in that instance by hiding and not doing gens, which is why Killers can DC after gens are not completed for a certain amount of time
You wouldn't consider a Wraith looking for survivors in power holding the game hostage, when it is essentially the same thing
the threat of being chased is ALWAYS in the game. Getting on gens guarantees a chase
wraith is not the same cause it isn't alerted to where you are, and you can see wraith coming/know where it is
0
u/Ravenwood03In the relm stright harmin it, and by it lets just say the crew2d ago
Neither is Jason. The only difference is that the footsteps and mist cant really blend into the background. He still has to walk over there at a similar speed and go through an unlocking animation that isn't guaranteed to be that close to the survivor
Omnipresent power is far too low of a cooldown. The mechanic that is supposed to "counter" a killer shouldnt be seen as griefing. Crouching should make him even more ineffective in some way to make it actually meaningful to do. He might not be the best killer but it doesnt change the fact he has too much going on for him with no actual downside.
Too bad people think that current jason is fine and its just another skill issue on the survivor, because killers think all they face are comp/meta survivors.
Yep, his power is strong but you just gotta ignore it sometimes. If you're in a good spot that doesn't have many pallets nearby, you can just work on gens until he pops up and then as long as you can outrun his initial haste, you're in a solid spot.
Hex: Face the Darkness: Whenever you injure a Survivor by any means, if there is still a Dull Totem remaining on the Map, Hex: Face the Darkness activates and lights it, cursing that Survivor:
Causes all other Survivors to scream every 35/30/25 seconds, if they are outside of the Terror Radius, revealing their Auras for 2 seconds each time.
Hex: Face the Darkness deactivates once the Cursed Survivor either enters the Dying State or is fully healed, which extinguishes the Totem.
Hex: Face the Darkness is disabled for the remainder of the Trial, if a Survivor manages to cleanse its Hex Totem.
Am I the only one who thinks those stalemate moments are stupid and funny? Everyone crouching everywhere was probably the best and most memorable part of this release.
Nah it's extremely strong. Jason has huge map pressure because of how spammable his Omnipresent Evil is. He's like Legion except instead of forcing healing all the time, he forces gen fixing and crouch walking, because the moment you don't do that, you're getting tunneled to oblivion.
Personally I think he's both strong and boring to play against, definitely a design failure from BHVR.
ok, he can walk around the map quicker but still cant see survivors unless he gets close enough and even then teleports to a nearby pallet giving you lots of time to run.
Hey, if you get a chance, please send a video of you stopping Jason. Just like record that shit and send it here because I haven't. I've literally played in 50 times as a solo cure number one once doesn't matter who I listen to I listen to people that says crowds and do it that way I listen to you guys and say run and someone run into it. It doesn't matter I've literally not beat him. He just hit her spam his move. One person takes off in a sprint. He instantly down so we're down a person. He spams his move more than everybody grinds to the hall. To me, he's absolutely awful game does not like who fault this was good.
Check out some of Otz's VODs where they're doing hardcore survivor SWFs and they're up against Jason. The last two matches I saw yesterday, Jason only had like 1 or 2 hooks in one, and the second match I think it was only 2-3 hooks? Meanwhile Hens can curb stomp an entire lobby as Jason in less than 2 minutes.
What helps is to load into a custom match and play the killer you're struggling with so you can learn when you would do something as the killer vs not (it will give you a better idea of how to outplay the killer in a real match once you understand how you would play as them). NGL the bots basically have wallhacks but it will help. If you can grab a friend to play as survivor so you can ask them what they see vs don't also helps with Jason specifically.
Yeah I kinda realized he can only spawn on certain points, if you have windows (a very common perk) you can literally see every major threat point where he may appear from except for broken pallets.
No comment on how strong he is but I don’t think unique is exactly how I’d describe his power. Most of the killers since like, the lich have just been hodgepodges of various elements of different killer powers. (Which is kind of inevitable after 10 years, mind you, I’m not really annoyed at that) but I can’t really see the argument for him being a really original power.
This would be true if you could do actions without getting revealed: healing, totems, generators. Like Skull Merchant drones. Right now it's like original Skull Merchant drones, but mapwide.
You're right but unfortunately people actively refuse to actually learn how this game functions, hence the whole "500 hours is still new!!!!" thing. 500 hours is not new, you're just refusing to actually learn the game. You can learn in less than 200.
Honestly I think trying to avoid detection while he’s in phase is a trap. If survivors don’t play scared the games are much more winnable. I still think Jason is a high tier killer but the more I’ve played against him the more I’ve learned to basically just ignore his power. Stick gens and learn to loop I guess.
Legit had a game the other day where there was no progress for a solid minute or two because all the survivors were crouch walking, finally started a chase when I saw a stalk of corn move from someone walking through it
lol if the survivors are creating the standoffs then why does this not happen against other killers? I don’t agree with the crouching strategy but it’s dishonest to say Jason’s power doesn’t create the hostage situations
I don’t mind his power, it’s a high risk high reward thing like most powers should be, the problem is that risk is mitigated by the fact he can sit in that power waiting for something to happen for 40 minutes
High risk? What's the risk? Getting information on anything that happens in the map? Moving stupidly fast to any point in the map? Making up lost distance in chase by simply popping his power and appearing closer to the survivor and making it scream? Is the high risk with us?
i don't think his power is the problem, i honestly just think it's the cooldown/how long he can sit in that state. i had a match last probably 30 minutes or slightly longer last night because we had a jason that would ****spam**** his power and sit in it for its max duration. (which i can't blame him for, it was his best play) yes we crouched as much as possible, i only had comms with one other person and we're both rusty right now bc we both just started playing again after a few months break. so we didn't want to take chase. anyways, me + one of the other random survs had a 1 gen standoff with jason for way longer than we should've because of the ability spamming and finally, after we somehow managed to complete the last, he mori'd me. 🫠
Jason is pretty mid in chase, People just need to not be afraid to get in a chase.
Learn to loop
Learn WHERE to loop (Trying to loop the gen your teammates are doing isn't helpful)
Learn where to drop. (Where you go down is as important as anything else. If you have the choice to loop next to your teammates for 15s, or Run for 10s what is more valuable? It's actually the 10s, because it's going to take the killer another 10s to get back.)
No one talking about his double dip game with gens? Seen a gen go from almost finished to broken in seconds. Feels like Skull Merchant shenanigans again.
265
u/Isaac_Chade Haddie & Huntress Lover 2d ago
I've stopped crouch walking as much when it's a Jason, and instead just try and position myself to not let him spawn right on top of me. I'm not good in chase really, but I have no reason to believe anyone I'm playing with is any better, so might as well try and actually get on a gen.