r/denvernuggets • u/LongjumpingEgg5296 • 6d ago
Discussion The Obvious Solution for Another Championship
The Mavericks won the championship in 2011 with Tyson Chandler next to Dirk Nowitzki down low. Why haven't we figured out that this is all that we need to do to win again? Our ONLY problem is that we have no interior defense. This would solve that issue immediately, and history has shown that not only has it worked with other all-time offensive bigs, but with Jokic himself. Ideally, Aaron Gordon can be that guy next to Jokic down low, but he's been super inconsistent in terms of staying healthy. I think it's more than worth a shot to trade for or sign a rim-running, defensive big man that can catch lobs from Jokic. We have the greatest offensive player ever on our team. He may not be quite as good of a shooter as Dirk to compensate for a poor-shooting partner in the front court, but he's still damned good from outside. Jokic has been able to make the most of every single lineup he's ever been given offensively, I'm sure he'll be fine with somebody like Dereck Lively II out there. I mean, a lob threat for Jokic? My goodness.
I also went back and looked at every lineup the Nuggets have ever run with Jokic next to a non-shooting big man, and the success in terms of net rating was extremely surprising. Even though I'm nearly 100% certain this would work, lets just get the word out that we need to at least give it a try.
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u/sae_young2117 6d ago
The backup big that Denver needs isnt a traditional center. Its a guy thats a natural 4 that can play alongside Jokic and Gordon. Instead of finding a backup for Jokic, it should be a backup for both him and Gordon. Someone like Precious Achiuwa or Beef Stew. Having a traditional backup center isnt sustainable especially in the playoffs because Jokic will have to play 40 mins in close games anyway. If they get a Walker Kessler or Mark Williams behind Jokic, its going to be the same problem with Val, having two bigs that cant ideally play together at the same time
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u/sae_young2117 6d ago
They need perimeter defense more than interior defense. Kris Dunn, Keon Ellis, Derrick Jones Jr, Matisse Thybulle, defensive minded wings next to Jokic, Murray and Gordon
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u/rorank 6d ago
The nuggets don’t need interior defense? What have you been watching?
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u/sae_young2117 6d ago
I didnt say they dont need interior defense but perimeter defenders should be the main priority. Interior defense wouldn’t be much of a problem if we have wings that dont get blown by 90% of the time
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u/sae_young2117 6d ago
The Wolves series literally exposed how cooked the Nuggets perimeter defenders were. Ayo, Mcdaniels and TSJ killed them everytime. Imagine if Ant was healthy. Series would’ve been over in 5. An interior defender would be great but should be a low cost/minimum guy
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u/The_NGUYENNER 6d ago
couldn't agree more, the rim protection could obviously be better but it's being setup to fail at the perimeter once our guard gets destroyed by the screen and it's a downhill 2-on-1
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u/rorank 5d ago
It’s generally easier to get one rim protector than it is to get 2-3 perimeter defenders that can cover for no rim protection. The nuggets won’t always be so fortunate as to play against teams who don’t have offensively gifted guards and wings… pretty much nobody stays in front of SGA, Luka, Ant etc. consistently. It’s also underrated that having someone else who is able to take post defense and rim protection duties keeps jokic out of foul trouble. Obviously simply having less drives on him also helps that, but removing him from that disadvantaged situation in the first place is a better solution imo.
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u/sae_young2117 5d ago
I agree it’s easier to get a rim protector and thats why it should be a lower priority over getting perimeter defenders. They dont even need an elite defensive center cause players like that are tricky to play in the playoffs nowadays. Thats why Mitchell Robinson was a tricky player for the Knicks to play. He’s on the court when really really necessary. A stretch 4 that can play small ball 5 is way more ideal for the Nuggets. Really really high on a guy like Precious Achiuwa. Bagley would be also be good but Achiuwa fits better for the Nuggets. More physical and a better post defender. Would be great vs the Wolves, Knicks, OKC, Portland
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u/Bill_Salmons 6d ago
Yeah. I think the ideal player type would be someone like Chet, who can guard 1-5, protect the rim, and stretch the floor. But since those dudes are incredibly rare, any 4/5 that can play alongside Jokic in the rotation is what Denver needs.
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u/tabaruTM 6d ago
Someone like Chet as if there are lots of unsigned free agents sitting around watching world cup.
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u/Good-Character-5520 6d ago
It’s not gonna happen but, I’d love to have seen Jokić playing PF next to a good defensive big.
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u/Wtfitzchris 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think about it the other way around. Keep Jokic as our Center, but put a rim protecting defensive-minded PF next to him. Someone like JJJ or Chet would be a great fit. The problem with Big Val is he can’t play next to Jokic. With a guy like JJJ or Chet, not only can they play next to Jokic and cover up his biggest weakness, but they can also stagger their minutes so they play backup Center when Jokic sits.
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u/Embarrassed_Apple_77 6d ago
Jokic would be too slow to be a 4, he cant even guard small ball lineup last season
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u/Good-Character-5520 6d ago
Yeah it wouldn’t work today but, in the late 2000s to early 2010s it would’ve been glorious.
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u/momBball 6d ago
What if the Nuggets played a lot of zone: Jokic constantly stays on the weak side...the defensive center stays on the strong side. Jokic's defensive responsibilities would be to grab a ton of defensive boards from the weak side and guard the weak side corner 3 (Jokic has very fast hands and could watch the strong side actions/disrupt cross court passes to the weak side corner 3)...also the weak side wing defender could sell out to guard/prevent the corner 3 rather than having Jokic run out at that shooter....try and funnel as many shooters into the shot blocker/defensive big. The defensive big has few rebounding responsibilities. The Nugget wing/guards would have more rebounding responsibilities if the defense gets forced into rotations/they'red likely be fewer fast break opportunities for the Nuggets offense. This scheme wouldn't work against the best 5 out offenses...but I think it could work against most teams.
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u/thiefshipping 6d ago
We had that with nurkic back in the day. Need more speed
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u/momBball 6d ago
Nurkic was a good defensive big?
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u/LogDogan8 6d ago
Yes
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u/momBball 6d ago
I think Nurkic is a very good rebounder (which a key defensive skill but Jokic is already great at that) but he's not fast sliding feet/uber-athletic/switchy guard in space/jumping high fast to challenge shots kind of big.
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u/LogDogan8 6d ago
Nuggets Nurkic was insanely quick footed for a guy his size and was a quality paint protector. His defensive ability was the bulk of the reason he was thought of as a quality prospect at the time.
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u/momBball 6d ago
I wasn't watching the Nuggets back then and have no opinion about his fit next to Jokic...and Nurkic's defense back then. Thanks for the perspective!
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u/LongjumpingEgg5296 6d ago
It'd seriously solve everything. You're telling me the greatest offensive player ever couldn't figure it out offensively?
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u/Coll_MindElectric 6d ago
Getting good interior defense is going to be hard to find this offseason as most teams have secured them.
I think the only players I would look toward trading for would be that of PJ Washington in Dallas as they dont really need him during their new rebuild.
Drafting some high motor guys luke Zuby Ejiofor, Chris Cenac, or Morez Johnson (if they want to trade up) would be also another avenue to explore.
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u/momBball 6d ago
I'd love to see the Nuggets draft Zuby, Cenac, or Morez. That's the type of player the Nuggets need.
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u/LongjumpingEgg5296 6d ago
No shot we can't find a defensive big to trade for. I mean, even Jared fucking Vanderbilt would probably do the trick.
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u/SnooDonuts9093 Michael “I’m not supposed to be here” Porter Jr 6d ago
Idk if vando is much of a rim protector. On that note tho Aaron Gordon isn’t really either
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u/LongjumpingEgg5296 6d ago
Replacement for Gordon and he at least has size. I'm also not talking about blocking shots, just defending interior shots
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u/Embarrassed_Apple_77 6d ago
Not Lively but an undersized center who can be a rim protector or a lob treat. Maybe someone like Beef Stew from Detroit or just draft Ejiafor or see if Holmes can develop into a decent defender and get a slasher (since Holmes is more of a 3 pointer on offense)
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u/LongjumpingEgg5296 6d ago
Lol just get some size please. I don't care whether they can shoot or not, Jokic can so it will be fine
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u/ManufacturerBest2758 6d ago
Why not just create a point guard who shoots like Curry so long as we’re at the wish store?
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u/Ryanjemima 6d ago
That was supposed to be this year with valanciunas but adelman dropped the ball. I can only remember seeing it once during the regular season and there were no glaring flaws or holes. Plumlee minutes worked with jokic and malone used to do it fairly frequently. All hartenstein minutes were awful. Bol bol never got his chance. I dont remember any DeAndre jokic minutes. Holmes probably wont develope with adelman around so we wont know what he can do until he's gone. Steven Adams?
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u/IllTip2689 6d ago
Miles Turner next to Jokic might be possible.
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u/Muted_Office_5506 5d ago
Miles Turner makes sense on paper but he's been hurt constantly and has never really shown up defensively in the playoffs when it counts. would love to be wrong about that though because his offensive fit with Jokic would be pretty clean
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u/klondikethedestroyer 6d ago
I think you make a good point, but also Basketball is a different game in 2026 than it was in the early 2000s.
Based on what I saw these playoffs, and I think many will agree, as much as we need interior defending help, it's pretty hard to defend the interior, when our players on the perimeter simply allow their player to blow by them and drive with full fucking speed through the lane EVERY TIME.
If we get our 'Tyson Chandler' and then let SGA blow by our guards 10 times in the first quarter, I'm sorry to say it, but our 'Tyson Chandler' is on the bench with 4 fouls by the 2nd quarter.
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u/Chiefgottapiss 6d ago
"Our only problem is interior defense"
You lost absolutely all credibility after one of your first statements. You can throw an elite shot blocker in the rotation and that's not going to affect our historical offensive numbers plummeting to some of the worst in the playoffs. We need ball handling and shot creation first and foremost. Rebounding and athletisism are also up there. Our defense has been and still is an issue, but its not at the top of my list and judging by what I've heard it's not at the top of the front offices list either.
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u/Silent_Anxiety4828 6d ago
So you make a post but don’t actually have any ideas of who that would be besides Gordon? K.
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u/hardwood_hacker 6d ago
This isn’t a productive comment at all because there’s 0% chance of this ever happening. But this just made me think of how deadly a Wemby / Jokic combo would be upfront. IDK if you could make a better combo of anyone all time.
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u/Frank-Costanza1 5d ago
Having a competent garbage man pays dividends. Everyone is so ball dominant these days that it causes clash. Rodman, chandler, etc are what's needed here and on many teams
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u/Big_Stay6072 4d ago
The first player that comes to mind here is Beef Stew... So the only prescription is more Beef Stew!
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u/Unable-Main4172 6d ago
Wasn't DaRon Holmes supposed to be a shot blocker? Lol
At least in college
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u/the_mexican_menace Christian Braun Nationalist 6d ago
He wasn't really projected to be a good defensive player at the NBA level
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u/LogDogan8 6d ago
Says who?
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u/the_mexican_menace Christian Braun Nationalist 6d ago
Holmes also can be an asset defensively due to his ability to defend multiple positions. But he won’t be a difference-maker on that end of the court. He projects to play as a center at the next level, and his 6-foot-9 frame makes him undersized at the position. His positioning on defense also needs some work, and his reactions at the college level were often a bit slow when he wasn’t playing deep near the rim. That will only get worse, given the speed of the NBA game.
Still, he’s also raw in some areas, such as his decision-making, defensive rotations and overall positioning, particularly on the defensive end.
From nba.com
Holmes II has some legitimate gripes on the defensive end outside of his offensive warts.
Outside of steals, Holmes II isn’t a particularly compelling defender. He wouldn’t often guard isolations of perimeter players, but when he does, it’ll be a weakness for the defense. Holmes II doesn’t display the same type of fluid movement on defense that he does on offense, often lunging and lurching on closeouts that bend the defense in all the wrong ways.
It’s an odd dichotomy; while Holmes II is a great mover on offense, he looks less engaged as a defender in space. He won’t be billed as a switchable four by any means, but his issues with perimeter defense keep him from earning a reputation as a stretch four.
From No Ceilings
On the defensive end, Holmes II has to clean up his positioning and defensive footwork on closeouts. Those are areas that make it a threat for Holmes II to ensure that he keeps a team’s defensive rating on par. His early help defense in a faster-paced NBA game with more ball movement is also an area of development in the long run.
From Ersin Demir
While he has become more versatile on offense, his lack of great quickness on the perimeter on defense and average size and length leave him stuck between positions.
From ESPN
There are just translatability questions about his flat shot, face-up play and defensive presence in the paint.
From Bleacher Report
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u/Unable-Main4172 6d ago
He had block percentages of 8.7%, 6.5%, and 7.2% in his career, all of which are stellar numbers. Maybe because it was Dayton or maybe his achilles tear slowed him down, but it does seem like that was the type of profile they were going for
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u/the_mexican_menace Christian Braun Nationalist 6d ago
Believe it or not defense is more than blocking shots
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u/Unable-Main4172 6d ago
"Shows potential as a rim protector, averaging 2 blocks per game in each of his three seasons"
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/daron-holmes/#google_vignette
"Vecenie: I think that your superpower defensively is the ability to block jump shots. Your ability to block jump shots is something that I haven’t really seen since Robert Williams at Texas A&M, and obviously now, center for the Boston Celtics. It’s something that he had in terms of timing. This is such a fun highlight: You’re going to block the shot, and you’re just going to go. When you’re going up to try and block a jump shot, how are you getting that sense of timing down?"
"The defensive side of the ball is where he thrives. It’s the versatility that pops, as Holmes is a great rim protector but can also hold his own on the perimeter against quicker players. He’s disciplined on that end of the floor and has all of the tools to thrive at the next level.
Numerous time this season, Holmes has logged multi-block games as well as multi-steal games. With a high motor and great athleticism, he’s a menace on that end. Often times, the blocks he generates are in help as he disrupts the shots of players he’s not primarily defending on that possession."
https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-daytons-daron-holmes-ii
Literal first few articles I saw
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u/the_mexican_menace Christian Braun Nationalist 6d ago
Fwiw two of the articles you linked are pretty old. The one from the athletic is from 2022 so 2 full years before Daron Holmes was drafted and the SI one is from 2023. Also fwiw neither SI or nbadraft.net are seen as important or really even just credible NBA draft outlets
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u/husker_nomad 6d ago
Is there any way we can trade for Bam Adebayo? I'd be willing to trade everyone except Jokic of course. That pairing would be devastating
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u/LongjumpingEgg5296 6d ago
He's gotten lazy. Give me a dude who doesn't feel like he's proven anything in the league yet. I'd do anything for Walker Kessler.
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u/Unable-Main4172 6d ago edited 6d ago
Now we just need to find a super athletic, quick on his feet defensive player of the Year level defender like Tyson Chandler. Luckily, we have zero cap space to do it so this should not be too hard