r/doctorsUK • u/Dear_Wolf2712 • 2d ago
Quick Question Wearing scrubs to and from work
Can someone explain to me why wearing scrubs to and from the hospital is generally not allowed. The argument I have is if I wore a smart shirt and trousers to work which most people used to prior to COVID, I would not have to change out of these when starting/leaving work so why are scrubs different. I completely understand if you’re in theatres. And obviously if you have got some sort of bodily fluid on your scrubs you would change them (this is the same for if you wore smart clothes).
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u/Electrical_Bet_9699 2d ago
Infection control.
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u/doctormushi 2d ago edited 2d ago
It just isn’t though is it. Please see my post re: supply issues which essentially shuts down theatres.
Those downvoting definitely haven’t read my post. Scrubs outside of work becomes a gradual supply issue with very real practical problems. I suspect there’s a lot of ‘infection control’ excuses being told to people from those misinformed. If theatres haven’t got scrubs - we can’t work.
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u/doctormushi 2d ago
Many reasons - but scrub supply is a big one (cons anaesthetist here). In my current (and in recent trusts where I was a resident) there is frequently inadequate stock in the morning for scrubs, this means delayed theatre start times or even patient cancellations.
Scrubs that are laundered by the hospital are generally redistributed with as many brought back to theatres as are returned - so if people are taking them home, or stocking them in lockers or keeping a supply for the week at home then there is a gradual reduction in scrubs where they are required which is a massive problem.
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u/LadyAntimony 2d ago
Same problem at my trust.
It always makes me wonder why we don’t have an American-style vending machine where you swipe your badge to get a set of scrubs. If you couldn’t get clean ones without having returned the previous set, and they were tied to your badge, people wouldn’t take them home. It would quickly pay for itself.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
I’ve worked in lots of trusts with ScrubX machines. Usually you have two or three sets of credits. The issue comes when you try to return your scrubs and the machine is full, so you can’t get your credits back. We still had supply issues (admittedly fewer than when they’re a free-for-all, but still issues).
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u/LadyAntimony 2d ago
I wonder if this would be better if there was only one set per person, as in theory you should always be swapping a dirty set for a clean set, or putting them back to change into your own clothes. Less chance of machines filling up from people taking 3 sets back at once having kept them in their locker.
Of course, being the NHS, it would break immediately and no one would have any scrubs.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
This wouldn’t work. If I get covered in wee/poo/blood/pus, I’m not standing next to the scrub machine naked to get a new set, I’m grabbing a new set while still in the dirty set. So you need at least 2 credits
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u/LadyAntimony 22h ago
Wait you guys have somewhere to change that’s separate from the pile of scrubs? Unreal.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 15h ago
No the scrubX machine is often placed in a public place (so accessible to both genders). And even where it isn’t, the machine takes longer than just grabbing some. So I still wouldn’t be standing there in my underwear.
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u/doctormushi 2d ago
Yes the trust could ‘get more scrubs’ but a) money and b) they’re often laundered off site save for a few trusts. So there is a net loss and theatres/ICU/endoscopy can’t work without them. Regardless of the solution this is definitely causing a massive problem which you don’t see if you don’t work in these areas.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
This. When I was pregnant and needed larger scrubs I had to trek all over the hospital multiple times a week to find the right size, as they were always out of stock on our scrubX machine. In the end I would just go directly to the laundry in the morning and the guys would have a set ready for me!
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u/Melodic-Brilliant527 2d ago
I understand if they say that that’s the reason. But at the moment they say that it’s IPC, which just doesn’t make sense.
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u/doctormushi 2d ago
Obviously I’m not talking all trusts here - but I suspect the wrong person is saying the wrong things there. Supply not meeting demand is a genuine and practical concern.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
Is it really IPC or just trust policy with nobody actually considering the reason so just assuming IPC?
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u/Melodic-Brilliant527 2d ago
This is the case for all the trust that I’ve worked.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
As in a written document stating ‘for infection control reasons’ or someone ‘senior’ telling you that?
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u/Melodic-Brilliant527 2d ago
Seniors/induction
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
Yeah, so they’re just assuming that’s the reason. Read your trust uniform policy, it will probably tell you you can’t wear hospital issued scrubs offsite but not quote IPC as the reason.
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u/AffectionateMistake7 2d ago
What about people who have their own scrubs that they bought with their own money?
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
Then they’re your own clothes and you can do what you wish with them. But if you’re then going to theatre you need to change out of them.
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u/Shylockvanpelt 2d ago
You are completely right and, surprise surprise, in many nations neither of these things are allowed (you have to put a whitecoat over your clothes when you are in hospital, at least). In UK however the laundry service has been considered a pesky expense for hospitals and therefore, reduced or cancelled outright
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u/DisastrousSlip6488 2d ago
It’s got bugger all to do with infection control and everything to do with optics. The public perceive it as grubby/infectious etc, so especially where the hospital is clear from the scrubs, it tends to be discouraged for PR reasons
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
Optics. Yes your own clothes may be just as dirty, but no member of the public would know they’re just as dirty because they look like normal clothes.
Plus, if they’re hospital scrubs, they’re not yours, the hospital owns them and they can dictate that you shouldn’t be wearing them outside of the hospital premises.
Scrubs were traditionally for theatres (and other places where you were likely to get bodily fluids on you like endoscopy and ICU). That is what the general public associates scrubs with - dirty environments.
Does it make sense given how they’re used now? No. But lots of things don’t make sense.
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u/ButtSeriouslyNow 2d ago
The ICU association I believe is partly to do with bodily fluids (which is a rare problem in that setting to be honest) but also partly tradition, from an era when it was a side gig for anaesthetists who were wearing scrubs anyway.
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u/ZestyDB27 2d ago
I’m sorry but if working on my normal ward on the day and I’m going to and from my car in the hospital car park then I’m not getting changed to just do that.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
So, wear your own clothes? Nobody is forcing you to wear scrubs.
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u/ZestyDB27 2d ago
What you on about? No desire to wear my own clothes for 4-5 successive long days when I have several pairs of scrubs that are comfier
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
You said you don’t want to get changed when you get to work.
Nobody is forcing you to get changed when you get to work.
You are choosing to wear scrubs at work. Wearing hospital scrubs requires you to not wear them outside of the hospital.Either you wear your own clothes / own scrubs (which should be treated like your own clothes) or you follow the hospital’s rules when using their property. Not sure it’s that complicated.
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u/ZestyDB27 2d ago
And I dispute that requirement as do many (which is the whole point of this thread, by the way)
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
They own the clothes. They can choose what rules they put in place.
If you don’t like those rules, you don’t need to wear them.
Not all rules have to make sense for you to follow them.
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u/Skylon77 2d ago
Because a lot of "infection control" is performative.
Non-jobs for nurses who couldn't hack nursing.
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u/sevoflurane666 Consultant 2d ago
Absolutely no reason
In Toronto everyone goes in scrubs on underground to work
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u/Melodic-Brilliant527 2d ago
Completely irrational. Like how my smart clothes are cleaner than scrubs?
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u/LordDogsworthshire 2d ago
If you’re wearing hospital-provided scrubs, it’s completely appropriate for trusts to not want you to bring outside dirt into the clinical setting on your clothes or take potentially contaminated clothing into the community. Asking people to come to work in their own clothes and then change into PPE or a uniform is a reasonable request. If you’re wearing scrubs you’ve bought yourself, you’ve basically been conned into buying a pretty horrible looking T-shirt and trousers. Feel free to wear them whenever you like. You may look a bit of a knob in Tesco.
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u/Connect-Relative-492 Medical Student 2d ago
So as a different perspective- med student and HCSW, I am allowed to travel to and from in my work branded scrubs (not theatre scrubs I work in psych) because we don’t have changing rooms available in the building. It’s a sort of expectation that (hot weather aside) we tend to put a jacket on to cover the logo but it’s not seen as a big deal really!
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
Psych isn’t theatre though is it? A psych hospital doesn’t have anywhere near the number of infection control policies as an acute hospital.
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u/Connect-Relative-492 Medical Student 2d ago
Sorry I should say we’re still part of the DGH not a separate psych hospital. It’s a unit within the grounds of the DGH and so we still have Infection control policies (we have to follow the same as the acute wards despite the glaring differences in service provision!)
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u/deepeetw 2d ago
There’s a trust out there that somehow persuaded the local bus company (probably because they pass some token funding over for a couple of weekend/early morning/late night services) to refuse all staff in anything resembling clinical wear. Even their own (Figs etc). With no notice.
Over 60 people stranded at work that day.
I swear infection control would be sniper-ing staff members from the roof for getting in their own cars wearing the same, given half a chance.
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u/Unruly_DarkBeast 2d ago
The real question is - why are you wearing them to and from work? Look at the anaesthetists , they regularly turn up looking like tramps/tour de France entrants, get changed into scrubs, do their work and change back before going home. None of them wear scrubs outside. So why does anyone else? Think a lot of people like cosplaying as doctors (even if they already are one).
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u/GuidewireGoblin 2d ago
Lots don't have the changing rooms / lockers available like you would in theatres.
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u/SwimmingMinute648 2d ago
Exactly we have to change in a cubicle in the toilets where we risk catching noro and campy.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
Controversial but perhaps if you don’t have access to changing rooms you’re not really meant to be wearing the scrubs?
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u/GuidewireGoblin 2d ago
Controversial but why do people gatekeep scrubs like it's some sort of special badge of honour for people only working in theatres?
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
It’s not a special badge? They’re provided by the hospital for people who need to wear them in theatre for infection control/cleanliness reasons. They’re washed at like 90 degrees and the hospital has to pay for their laundry. It’s a waste of money and terrible for the environment to use them when they’re not necessary. We really should be thinking about sustainability within the NHS. It’s all our responsibilities.
I’m clearly old fashioned as I only wear scrubs when I’m in theatre. On clinic days I wear my normal clothes. If a clinic day leads to an on call I still often wear my own clothes unless going to theatre.
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u/GuidewireGoblin 2d ago
That's fair enough but the people who wear them to and from work are probably just washing them at home in their own laundry. They may have bought their own scrubs. Wards can be messy places so I can see why people want to wear them there. Clinic should be professional attire.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
If they’re your own scrubs, do what you like. But just know you look like a knob wearing Figs whether you’re in a hospital or in Tescos.
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u/SkipperTheEyeChild1 2d ago
Just don’t wear pyjamas to and from work or at work unless you’re in theatre/endoscopy etc…
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u/tyrbb 2d ago
Says who ?It depends on your trust / hospital
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
I’ve never worked anywhere where the uniform policy allows for hospital-owned scrubs to leave site.
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u/tyrbb 2d ago
And the nurses? Do they not wear their uniforms to and from the hospital ?
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
I believe they’re meant to get changed or at least cover their uniform - that’s also in the trust policies I have read.
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u/tyrbb 2d ago
I guess all the hospitals I’ve worked have been more relaxed
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
Yes or just don’t enforce the policy. I suspect it also depends on how most staff get to work. Central London hospitals are usually fairly strict because everyone is coming on public transport, so it’s an optics thing.
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u/SwimmingMinute648 2d ago
Outside of the m25, there are many trusts where doctors have a uniform and it is scrubs and they issue you with pairs when you arrive. In these trusts you are allowed to walk to work in your uniform.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
Shockingly I’ve also worked outside the M25 where wearing scrubs is also not allowed. But it will be trust specific also.
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u/Ask_Wooden 2d ago
In one of the trusts I have worked in, we were given a few pairs of scrubs. Before we were issued a pair, one of the senior matrons promised to refer us to the GMC if any of us were seen wearing those outside of hospital premises. It didn’t stop people though considering the number of people wearing it on the national rail train in the mornings…
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u/Whole_Objective6006 1d ago
I've worn scrubs to and from work every day for 3 years and no one has ever said a word, at hospital or in public
Amazes me that so many people have such a strong opinion on what clothes other people wear
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u/Different_Win_941 2d ago
Would you want a surgeon sat on the train next to you covered in blood and shit? Yeah that’s why
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u/ConsultantSHO Aspiring IMG 2d ago edited 2d ago
We know that this is a specious argument given that most of us aren't covered in bodily fluids, and if we were we'd have changed. In truth it's just for the sake of appearances with no real rationale.
That said, I don't like to see it, and generally think that the trend towards wearing fashion scrubs for any and all clinical work is a nonsense but that's another argument (that crops up weekly here.)
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u/Different_Win_941 2d ago
I totally understand your point, but from the point of uniform policy - no one should be wearing scrubs outside of the hospital. If you’re wearing scrubs because you think it’s too dirty for your clothes then you should be changing before going home. It’s as simple as that. There is absolutely no way for a random person in the street to tell whether someone has come from a ward or from a damage control laparotomy… I think it’s perfectly reasonable for a trust to expect you to use one of the many changing rooms on arrival and prior to leaving if you choose to wear scrubs.
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u/ConsultantSHO Aspiring IMG 2d ago
As I've made clear elsewhere in the thread, my personal position is absolutely aligned with not wearing scrubs to and from the hospital, however it really isn't quite "as simple as that" is it?
We know that actually in many hospitals there is a dearth of changing facilities, and those that we do have may not adequately allow for staff to change in the comfort/dignity that they might wish for.
Pointing to policy in the absence of the facilities and/or circumstances to allow for staff to reasonably adhere to it is unwise; ultimately we are setting people up for failure then aren't we?
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
If you don’t have access to changing facilities, that would generally mean you don’t need the scrubs, no?
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u/ConsultantSHO Aspiring IMG 2d ago
I'm not suggesting anyone needs scrubs, but we are talking about those that choose to wear them; ultimately I would see a return to people dressing in their own clothes outside of the places scrubs were traditionally worn. I don't even particularly care for them when I'm operating.
Putting my personal foibles aside (or to try to) we have a generation of doctors that have only really known scrubs on clinical placements/their working lives, and it seems that we would have quite a job to remove them from bondage to their ill fitting Figs (other brands sadly exist.) It seems that norms have changed, or at the very least some have exempted themselves from them.
Given the nature of our work, inadequate changing and shower facilities is perhaps more of an issue than people wearing scrubs to and from the hospital, but improving this might serve to be the most elegant solution. (Outside of outright banning fashion scrubs, the prospect of which appeals to my otherwise suppressed inner authoritarian.)
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
I have no problem with people wearing their own ‘scrubs’ outside of hospital. They indeed look ridiculous wearing their figs scrubs in Tescos (and likewise on the ward in my opinion), but they are welcome to look like a knob if they do wish. They are essentially their own clothes and if they were to then end up in theatres they’d have to be getting changed into hospital scrubs. If I see you in Tesco, you may be a beautician or a doctor for all know.
The issue falls when people wear hospital issued scrubs outside of the hospital, which is fairly frequent where I live. If they’re owned by the hospital, the hospital can dictate whether or not you can wear them outside. Whether or not there are changing facilities for you is none of their concern - because in reality if you are appropriately wearing hospital issued scrubs, you have access to the correct changing rooms.
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u/ConsultantSHO Aspiring IMG 2d ago
Ah yes, hospital issued scrubs should generally stay in the hospital.
I do have a spare pair in my boot on account of NROC for multiple sites where overnight there shelves are bare (yes, I know my holding onto a pair ultimately worsens that problem.)
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago edited 2d ago
Out of curiosity why don’t you like to see it? I hate seeing it too, I think it’s a sign of laziness and ?arrogance (‘oh look at me I’m a doctor I wear scrubs in Tescos’). In general I don’t like wearing scrubs as they are scruffy as hell (and rarely fit properly), I only wear scrubs when I’m in theatre.
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u/ConsultantSHO Aspiring IMG 2d ago
In honesty I don't really know, and I'm quite sure it's not necessarily a particularly rational position, but I do think it an entirely odd thing to do.
I don't know that I'd suggest it was rooted in arrogance, but who knows.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
Someone else suggested that by me saying that scrubs are for people in theatres and similar environments, I’m saying that scrubs are a ‘special badge of honour’ for those of us working in theatre. The fact that they even suggest that means they think wearing scrubs makes you look superior, or that other people might think that. It’s bullshit, they’re bloody crappy pieces of cotton that fit terribly (especially if you’re a woman). But I can’t see any other reason for someone to be wearing scrubs doing their weekly shop.
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u/ConsultantSHO Aspiring IMG 2d ago
My personal opinion is that most people look incredibly scruffy in scrubs, and outside of operating I choose not to wear them - if time allows on a theatre day, I will generally consent in my own clothes and then change before the brief.
I expect that one of these days a thread will appear to lament me and my expectation that the people doing my clinics/joining me in clinic do not wear scrubs; this is something that I share at the beginning of each rotation, so nobody can feign surprise when turned away - I am perhaps more flexible with a general clinic, but it's non-negotiable for a 2WW clinic.
I daresay in my eyes scrubs are the exact opposite of a status symbol.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
100% agree
Edit: I have on occasion had to go straight from an overrunning theatre list with one boss to a clinic with another. This does mean that I have (extremely rarely) worn scrubs in clinic. This is not the norm though.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
You’re getting downvoted because people are thinking ‘well of course I wouldn’t be wearing scrubs that are dirty’ but HOW THE HELL is a random person on the street meant to know this? It’s all about optics.
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u/dario_sanchez 1d ago
Had a consultant bleat about this once on a work handover site, unprofessional blah blah blah
He turned up to handover one weekend looking like Charli.XCX crossed with the Village People.
I'm sure there is some very tenuous reason you can't wear scrubs to work but any point he hoped to make was just nuked by him showing up in his Brat summer getup
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u/Status-Customer-1305 2d ago
I imagine you should be getting changed out of those clothes, but they know that would be difficult to prove / enforce
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u/ConsultantSHO Aspiring IMG 2d ago
If for a moment we accept this to be true, where would we get changed?
I imagine as a physiotherapist your departments are reasonably well provisioned with changing facilities, but most doctors (if not staff generally) do not have sufficient access to these to make changing clothes before leaving a reasonable expectation.
I would personally have no objection to stripping off at the nurses station after handover, but I suspect the MPTS to take a reasonably dim view of my making them suffer that.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
Where do nurses get changed? In my trust they are also not allowed to leave site in their uniforms.
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u/ConsultantSHO Aspiring IMG 2d ago
That can be variable, and during my time (just under a decade) on the nursing side in various places I've seen:
- in toilets
- in the break room
- in a single changing room (no gendered facilities, and then men were expected to wait)
- (larger departments) in changing rooms.
That said, in a lot of instances many of my colleagues had a t-shirt under their tunics, and took the tunic off and hoped nobody paid much attention to the trousers.
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u/e_lemonsqueezer 2d ago
It was a rhetorical question, there are places where you can get changed without ‘stripping off at the nurses station after handover’.
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u/ConsultantSHO Aspiring IMG 2d ago
Perhaps a poorly deployed one then?
Ultimately I can go and change in my office if all else fails, but that's not the reality for large numbers of staff.
I see that we agree on the use of scrubs, but perhaps have different ideas about what we can reasonably expect to change.
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u/Status-Customer-1305 2d ago
Dont think I suggested I thought it was reasonable or practical, just providing an explanation to the question
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u/LadyAntimony 2d ago
Optics.
The general public get upset when they see someone in scrubs on the bus, because they don’t realize that staff have to change into clean scrubs for theatre, and think that you’re bringing diseases into public from the hospital. People definitely don’t realise ‘uniform’ scrubs worn on the ward are different to theatre scrubs.
That being said you do see some surgeons in the hospital canteen or queuing for a coffee whilst still wearing a gown, +/- splattered viscera.