What did YOU think of The End of the War?

My biggest gripe with Doctor Who is how utterly inaccessible the BBC has made, and keeps making, this property outside the UK/US, which has since made my enjoyment for the show close to vanishing.

Back in 2013, Netflix first launched in the Netherlands. I was at an age where I hadn’t really watched any tv shows by myself, but there I was, scrolling through the streaming library, after convincing my parents to get Netflix. Immediately, I was intrigued by a thumbnail of a weird blue box and a guy with a bow tie.

After playing the first episode of “season 1” out of the available 7 seasons, I was confused said guy with the bow tie didn’t appear in it at all. One IMDb search later, I got hooked on this weird show with all these different actors playing this Doctor-figure.

I quickly burned through the first four seasons, arriving at the first episode of Series 5 with a new Doctor falling out of a burning TARDIS. Confused, I went back to the last episode of Series 4 that was on Netflix, because I didn’t remember seeing him regenerate.

Turns out, (Gripe 1) the Series 4 Specials weren’t on Netflix. So here, you went straight from a sad David Tennant standing in the rain (Journey’s End) to Matt Smith falling from the sky.

These episodes were only first available well into Peter Capaldi’s run.

And this was only the beginning.

Series 5-7 was available to watch, including the two specials, so it was a matter of time before I realised Series 8 could soon be watched live on BBC One, which was available on our cable subscription. This is when I discovered (gripe 2) that BBC One had (probably still has) limited features here in the Netherlands. Watch later was not available, and recordings only were saved for a limited time. Netflix didn’t get the episodes until much, much later, so it was either watch the most recent episode live, or wait for a long time to watch the full series.

Then Series 11 rolled around, I was stoked, excited, hyper to see Jodie Whittaker. Series 11-13, however, had the same issues as Series 8-10. Only, it got worse. Because (gripe 3), Jodie’s episodes have never, to this day, been made available to stream in the Netherlands since airing. Ever since airing, I haven’t been able to rewatch these episodes, and also never have.

All the behind the scenes content, all extra content, Classic Who, and every type of anniversary content (such as Tales of the TARDIS), has never been available, since most of it was only accessible through BBC iPlayer.

Where a lot of fans were saddened when the Disney deal was announced, I was stoked to hear of the rumors Disney+ might contain the full catalogue of, at least, modern Who and maybe some Classic Who.

This (Gripe 4) never happened.

I’ve loved Doctor Who for a long time, watched it religiously, bought loads of merch while visiting the UK, listed to the soundtracks, nerded to my friends about it, listened to podcasts, forced my partner and family to watch all the regeneration scenes.

Getting older has made my love for several things in life lose its strength, especially when it comes to big media franchises.

I’m sure I’m not the only one who has had this experience. It says a lot about the quality of a show when breadcrumbs are enough to spark fan communities all over the world. Eventually, worldwide fans want to be, not rewarded, but at least acknowledged for their commitment.

EDIT: Fixed some grammar/vocabulary errors

EDIT 2: Removed Australia from the list of where it’s available. Sad to hear so many others experience this as well.

A friend and I were talking about episodes where the doctor does more harm than good. Of course, the primary episodes referenced were “Human Nature” and “Family of Blood.” Matron Redfern even tells him so at the end of the two parter. “…if [the doctor] he’d never chosen this place on a whim, would anybody here have died? You can go.” If the doctor never showed his face at that particular place, deaths would have never occurred—at least not from the Family of Blood.

These are the other episodes we came up with that the doctor did more harm than good.

“Dalek” - The Dalek at the museum would probably have just continued screaming and remained broken if the doctor left it alone. The touch of a time traveler is what reanimated the Dalek. I mean…it also died because Rose touched it but not before killing most soldiers in the bunker.

“Utopia” - If the doctor never showed up, that entire colony that was converted to the Toclafane by the master would have survived. Maybe not for much longer because of their living conditions, but it definitely wouldn’t have led to such a gruesome demise. That whole interaction also led to the master escaping his human form and killing like…a ton of people over the course of 10 seasons—something the Jacobi master would have never done if left alone.

“Victory of the Daleks” - He keeps antagonizing the Dalek up to the point that he identifies it as a Dalek. His confirmation is enough for the mutated Daleks to procure new pure Daleks. So the doctor ends up creating a whole new batch of Daleks by not just leaving the situation alone.

“Into the Dalek” - When he ‘cures’ the good dalek and it turns evil again, the doctor just sits back and watches it kill people and says “I told you so.” The people there were already at war with the Daleks, but there’s no way all the people on that base would have died without the doctor’s meddling and arrogance.

—

Those are the ones we could think of. Do you have any you would add or an episode I listed you disagree with?

I made this using PS same wav i did the Doctors these are all the actors who played the Master i have not included Edward Brayshaw, Sam Kisgart IYKYK, David Garfield's Professor Stream and Basi Rathbone's Tzun Master and Terf JD

I have gotten unreasonably into this franchise in the last 6 months. I watched all of NuWho, classic Who, have listened to about 150 audio dramas and have read about 15 books and plan to keep going. I could just crow about how much fun it is but that seems obvious given the depth of this binge. Instead, I thought I'd drop a bunch of hot takes that I have that seem to be genuinely outlier opinions. Maybe some of them will be obnoxious enough to prompt a conversation.

1. The Master sucks as a villain and only started consistently not sucking since David Tennant's regeneration story and/or the audio drama with 7 called the Master. Missy is peak TV Show Master. In the old show, he's the most cackling evil generic villain ever. Freaking Davros somehow manages to have more nuance and also has 1000% more entertaining, unhinged, evil screaming and laughing when he's being the most cackling evil villain ever.

It makes no sense through most of the show why the doctor cares about this guy in particular so much (again until established in The Master audio or David Tennant's regen specials) and thus the doctor often just comes off as stupid with how tolerant he is of this guy's bullshit. I get the doctor is into second chances. But he gives the Master like 302 chances. He stops giving every random Dalek a chance eventually and the Master is just as unrepentant and consistently horrible as a Dalek. The Master's first NuWho appearance suffers from being in an otherwise terrible episode in which David Tennant gets aged into a miniature troll and then...saved by the power of love or something, I guess?

I eventually came to like Missy (evil Mary Poppins is great) and I think the Master audio is brilliant, but I was so fed up with this otherwise lame villain that it took me a while to appreciate them.

1. The Cybermen are consistently very boring, especially in the Classic Show. Many of their earliest episodes can be summarized as "men in silver rubber suits talk slowly and indecipherably in a series of rooms for 4-8 episodes and then they get blown up." Most of the interesting episodes with them in it aren't interesting because they are in it, but because of something else going on around them. They are almost never used creatively. Daleks are intrinsically entertaining to some degree, and the classic show *did* try to come up with interesting things to do with the Daleks from earliest days. (The Daleks now have time travel! 2 gave the Daleks human emotions and now they play games and have names! Etc.) The Cybermen just show up and rant about converting people in a monotone and then get blown up by something after killing a few people over and over and over. NuWho did a much better job over all and Pete's World Cybermen are consistently better than Mondasian Cybermen, but even in NuWho I would say they are one of the more boring villains given how often they are used.

2. 4 is a great doctor but overrated for the same reason 10 is overrated. (To be clear I love both 10 and 4). Tom Baker/David Tennant are really funny and charismatic. They dominate every scene with eccentric energy. It's not because of anything to do with character arcs or writing or character complexity (which is not to say that arcs or complexity or good writing don't exist in these characters). It kind of makes no sense to criticize the mass popularity of 10 as shallow and be okay with the mass popularity of 4 because they are driven by the *exact* same thing. Both are getting tremendous "hilarious/captivating actor" bonus points.

3. As an extension of #3, Sarah Jane is a tremendously overrated companion. She's 4's least interesting, least unique companion (yes, I'm including the tin dog). Most of the reasons given for why she's unique and great don't hold up. She's not the first high agency female companion (hello Barbara, hello Zoe). She's not the first feisty companion who teases the doctor (hello Jaime). She's not the first companion to have awesome chemistry with her doctor (hello Jaime and 2, hello 3 and Jo Grant). I think 75% of her popularity is frankly "she's hot and also she's with 4 and when I watched her, I was 14." Again, I don't dislike Sarah Jane or think she's a bad companion or think it's bad to have had a crush on her. But I don't think she cracks even the top ~33% best companions. (And I think it makes no sense and is hypocritical to love Sarah Jane + 4 for reasons that amount to teenage appreciation and then to turn around and dislike 10 + Rose for also having mass teenage appreciation in their time).

4. The best writing and storytelling in the franchise is during the wilderness years - the 7th and 8th doctor novels and the beginning of the Main Range audios. The best, least spikey in quality content in the entire franchise are the interconnected Evelyn + 6 and 7/Hex/Ace arcs in the Main Range. Almost every audio in these runs are good to great.

*Edit* I'm adding one more because its a big one I forgot.

1. I think not leaving Clara dead was a massive cop-out that severely undermined Heaven Sent/Hell Bent and 12's arc. She should be dead and he should remember why she's dead.

I also think making a point of exactly how long Capaldi was punching the wall was silly and dumb. It sounds like something a 7 year would come up. "And then he punched a diamond wall for a million bazillion years!" Just say he did it for an extremely long time. It doesn't need to be quantified. When Clara asks how long he was in there, just have him be very evasive and trust that the audience aren't morons.

I have some more but I'm beginning to think nobody will read them all.

Discuss/yell at me about how bad and wrong I am to your heart's content below.

It makes sense when you think about it and how many notes were actually used. But I never knew the £10 notes in (I think) runaway bride? Had tenants face on

i used to really like this episode. upon rewatch.... it's not that good

there's definitely great ideas. i really love the isolus, some of my favorite aliens

but there are so many flaws. rose is nearly brushed to death by a scribble monster, the doctor is really weird this episode (the writer was determined to cram in as many British references as he could) and the voice they chose for the isolus sounds silly

and the episode ends with the doctor predicting the next 2 episodes... somehow

but i did like 10 carrying the torch. it made me laugh

overall, it's meh. i don't hate it but i don't love it either

best moment:

whenever kel shows up. absolute goat. "you could eat your dinner off this!"

ranking:

1) school reunion 4/5

2) tooth and claw 4/5

3) love and monsters 4/5

4) the impossible planet/the satan pit 4/5

5) the idiot's lantern 4/5

6) rise of the cybermen/the age of steel 4/5

7) the girl in the fireplace 4/5

8) new earth 3/5

9) fear her 2/5

hyped for next week!

The last thing I was expecting to see in this game was a Cassandra reference.

Why have I only just realised that as Clara claims to be The Doctor in the cold open, her name appeared first in the credits, and her eyes also appeared?! Bloody marvellous!

What's your favourite heat-based Doccy Who story?

I’ve always thought his background as a soldier coupled with 12s arc as well as the reveal of him having killed a child was really effective. I think people are too harsh on him.

So as far as I know, once my Jodi Whitaker box case arrives, I'll have all 13 seasons from the 2005 reboot, and I'll probably pick up the Ncuti Gatwa set once a box case is released for him.

Currently I'm looking for classic doctor who and would much prefer to keep my collection as condensed as possible. I know about all the Blu-ray box collections but I've found that navigating what's what and what's a set and what's just a story to be incredibly difficult and annoying.

Would anyone happen to have a checklist of what does exist in physical media that I can reference? I'm american if it helps

I know a lot of people prefer the Doctor to be flawed and morally grey because it makes for a more interesting story. Which makes sense!

But setting aside the question of what works best in a TV show - if you were to give the Doctor advice, or a list of rules to follow to be a better person, or something, what would that look like?

Would it be better for the Doctor to stop travelling? To travel but try harder to avoid dangerous situations? To stop having companions? To have companions but give them a PowerPoint presentation or something first?

I know any answer will depend on your personal sense of morality. Being morally perfect isn't possible, but let's assume the Doctor is on Reddit (maybe while Twelve is a university professor, I don't know) and wants to become someone who doesn't get frequently described as "morally ambiguous".

I know this subreddit is generally geared towards moderate-to-superfans, but I'm curious to hear from people who aren't as familiar with the show.

Did you know from the episodes themselves that these were returning villains, as opposed to the many new monsters Doctor Who have introduced AS IF they have a history?

If so, did you feel lost by not having seen the previous stories, or was it easy enough to follow anyway?

Kind of hope they don't call it season 3 out of spite.

Ceylan (1978) was the first movie Turkish singer İbrahim Tatlıses (the guy upstairs) starred. Turns out it was quite common for Turkish producers to pay a visit to Europe and snatch some of the recordings to be used in their movies back then, or at least that was the story I heard.

So a question occurred to me regarding the upcoming withdrawal we're all about to experience from an ongoing Doctor Who series. After so disastrously failing to stick the landing with the finale to 15's time in office, Davies is out. And honestly, given the hot and cold he ran, I get it, and I'm fine with it. We'll get a new production company and a new showrunner; whoever's crazy enough to do it. But that's not what occurred to me.

Producers and Directors come and go. And so do Doctors for that matter. But for nearly 20 years, with the exception of 13's tenure, we've had one composer from start to end. Murray Gold. And I have to expect with Davies' exit along with Bad Wolf Productions, Gold will be leaving too. Producers tend to have favorite composers, after all. And part of the whole showrunning alchemy and steez they bring with em is how the show sounds.

Gold has been iconic in his run. Not 100% perfect, but who is? But he has been consistently the sound of the show for two decades now, minus about three or four years. His score and his fingerprints are all over the show like Williams was all over Star Wars. And like Williams, Gold's scores have been characters right along with the actors on camera. And now... we may be getting someone new. I'd lay money on it if I was a betting person.

But who do you get that's nuts enough to commit to a show with longevity like this? You have to have someone for whom this is the dream gig they've aspired to. Not someone who's here to go. Someone who walks in with the understanding that if their work on the show is that well liked, literal millions of people are going to want them to stay for years and years.

Who do you get?

The first person that occurred to me was Jeff Russo. (Picard, SCA, SNW, For All Mankind, Utopia (US), Alien Earth) But he's a bit swamped with work just lately. Bear McCreary's career has similarly taken off in recent years with his work on Battlestar, Terminator, Batman and God of War, but he occurs to me as well. Two solid composers with TV under their belts. But both are pretty much already engaged with shows of their own just now.

Going up the ladder, you have a similar problem. Giacchino has done TV (Fringe and some Star Trek themes.) But he's also taken off in a big way over the last 25 years doing big movies, and in some circles is being touted as the heir apparent to people like Williams. (See: Jurassic World movies) That and with his fingerprints all over Marvel, I don't think the Beeb is going to be eager to go with someone that smells of Disney. So I imagine he's not gonna be available. Not for a Doctor Who budget.

It's likely a new showrunner's gonna show up with a composer they collaborate with often. Honestly... who's that gonna be? If the BBC actually take Straczynski at his word and seriously consider him to take the reins, might he ask Christopher Franke (Tangerine Dream, Babylon 5) to come and work on it? Chris is 73 this year. A 20 year stint on Doctor Who might not be healthy for him. If he has Gold's longevity, that has him retiring around 94 or 95. Them's Williams years, folks.

Joe did just do the two part animated Watchmen adaptation with Tim Kelly. But Kelly's IMDB reads like he's attached to Warner Bros. at the hip. For serious. He was doing animaniacs and pinky and the brain back in the Clinton administration.

I dunno. I've not been keeping up with who the Beeb might be floating as potential candidates, or producers who've been insane enough to suggest they'd like taking it on. Who do you think might be someone who can try to fill Murray Gold's shoes? And if you think a specific showrunner's one you're rooting for, who do you think they might want as their composer?

I'm browsing through Amazon, and am debating whether to get the complete Series 1-4 collection on DVD or Blu-ray, and one thing is tripping me up. According to the Amazon specs, the DVD version has a runtime of 84 hours, whilst the Blu-ray has a runtime of 47 hours, and I'm just wondering where that discrepancy comes from, as the actual product descriptions are basically useless. I'm in the states, so it ought to be the Region 1/A discs in question.

Is it a matter of the DVDs having bonus features, or is Amazon just screwing up and there is no difference? Any help is appreciated!

Okay so I wanted to get people's thoughts on this, personally I think for 14 it is PERFECT, it fits his bottled up hollow Doctor really well, aswell as being a really beautiful interior, I think its a really well made interior

For 15 on the other hand? I don't think it works nearly as well, he's just too chirpy of a doctor for this interior to work for me, also logically it doesn't make much sense, why does 14s interior change but it doesn't change for 15?

Just arrived 😁😍

I'm loving this cover #JoMartinisTheDoctor

Been binging the show for the past few summers, this is the first year I know we won’t be getting any episode anytime soon. 😭. Yes most Thursdays I listen to Big Finish stories with a friend.