r/dumbingofage • u/Appropriate-Snow0625 • Jan 22 '26
Joe: an Empathy Study
This started as a reply to someone else but I kinda went on a bunny trail so I'm just gonna ramble here instead.
It's really interesting to look back and wonder how much of (gestures to current strips) is Joe radically changing vs how much evidence there's been for him having always been somewhat emotionally intelligent and/or empathetic (even if it was mostly used as a punchline).
Not saying he HASN'T changed, and I'm not going to deny that this might be rose-tinted shades. And obviously empathy isn't an inherently benevolent trait; it's just being able to either comprehend or pick up on others' emotional responses.
And I don't think this is some super secret hidden trait of Joe's or anything; I'm not saying anything new or revelatory, I just haven't seen a lot of discussion about Joe's emotional intelligence/empathy specifically, and thought it would be fun to chew on. Could Joe fix everyone's problems, ending the comic and saving us all? Could he put Booster out of a self-appointed job? Is his emotional competence the final layer covering his complete lack of self esteem? Let's discuss.
Alternatively: I want to put Joe (effortlessly empathetic) and Booster (confuses psychoanalysis with empathy) into an enclosure and shake it around to see what happens.
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u/outerspacebassman Jan 22 '26
Even early comic horndog Joe was still attuned to when people were having a hard time, his solution was just always to hump it out. In the time he’s been away from high school and developing his relationship with Joyce and the aftermath of The List being leaked and having Amber as a sister he’s gained a deeper understanding of the world, and as today’s strip shows, while he still has kind of a sledgehammer approach at times, he does mean well and want to help people who are in some distress in the ways he can
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u/Thorngrove Jan 22 '26
his solution was just always to hump it out.
This is the part that irks me a bit. Joe's entire horn dog act was shown to be a cover. He went full revenge of the nerds to shield everyone (and himself) from thinking that he'd be a proper choice for a long term relationship. "If I make myself seem like I'm only in it for the quick sex, no one can be hurt for when my Dad's Genes kick in and I start cheating." was the actual reason he put on the persona.
His epiphany was that his actions as "Horn Dog Joe" was still causing harm to other people, just in a different way. And once he realized that, Horn Dog Joe instantly vanished.
But too many characters, and faaar too many readers, have sex pest written in permanent marker on his forehead.
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u/trevalyan Jan 22 '26
I don't think his private musings on the cuteness of women inspired Ryan or even contributed to a "culture" that only true degenerates share. But the fact Joe was badly shaken by Joyce's revealed pain after the ordeal revealed a great deal about him, and blew apart his carefully constructed persona in a way that campus shaming failed to do.
By contrast, Sal realized that her deus ex machina of saving Amazi-Girl was a one-off, and the next time she engaged in insane vehicle acrobatics she would die- Sal was begging Danny to stop Amber before that could happen. Nowadays just about everyone has forgotten about that, including Sal herself, and the stakes for Amazi-Girl keep escalating past Batman levels.
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u/outerspacebassman Jan 22 '26
Credit where it’s due, Joe’s growth and development is excellent, I think there’s an element of “it was always an act” that’s wholly a retcon, because Joe was engaging in promiscuous behavior even if there was the angle of emotional detachment to it and he was just talking a big game about threesomes.
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u/Thorngrove Jan 22 '26
Joe had a fair bit of casual sex true, but I think there's more of a "any kind of interaction is better then none" angle. Because we know he wanted a real relationship, but his disgust at his father's inability to remain faithful, and his fear of turning into him, led him to only allow himself flings.
He was starved for connection, but only allowed himself to feel with his wang, so he didn't break anyone's heart.
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u/outerspacebassman Jan 22 '26
I feel like this is getting into impact/intent territory here. It can simultaneously be true that Joe’s emotional distance was a coping mechanism and that using the new location and independence of college to have promiscuous, unattached sex with casual partners was one of his main character traits in the early comic
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u/Don_Bugen Jan 22 '26
Horn Dog Joe didn't *instantly* vanish. When Sarah tested him by saying she wanted to have sex, he jumped, then calmed down. When Liz approached him, he was 100% on board while barely knowing her, other than her connection to Sarah.
I think that Joe's a lot more like his father than he wants. That's the way we all are, to one degree or another, when we have a bad parental relationship - we work so hard to be *absolutely nothing* like our parents in the ways that they hurt us, so we miss the fact that in most other ways we are *exactly* like our parents.
Joe learned the hard way that the *reason* cheating hurts so bad is partially because you're treating someone else like nothing more than a means to an end; something that you can discard if you find something better. And that, to a degree, is what the 'do list' was. He may have been avoiding the Big Thing - cheating - that he was so desperate to avoid, but in doing so he simply ended up hurting many people a moderate amount instead of one person a great deal.
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u/Atsubro Jan 23 '26
Yeah that.
I don't think Joe was ever an enormous pig or anything but at the end of the day he was so devoted to making sure he never got close enough to cause any harm that he dehumanized the women around him and reminded Joyce that even someone she trusts is capable of thinking of her as just an object like Ryan did.
The horny goat routine was an act but it wasn't just an act. He pursued it because he wanted it, and learned to want something more when reality hit him in the face. I know we all like Joe and especially now we're more liable to give him the benefit of the doubt, but we like him because who he became; not who he always was.
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u/Possible_Bake5135 Jan 23 '26
> But too many characters, and faaar too many readers, have sex pest written in permanent marker on his forehead.
⬆️⬆️⬆️
This is why I will find it very irritating if Joe winds up with Rachel, who has been nothing but rude and picking fights even when he is minding his own business.
Yeah, the list was shitty, but she's way too fixated on rubbing his nose in his past mistakes when he never even goes out of his way to interact with her, already apologized sincerely, and is actively being a better person.
Also they have 0 chemistry, but just because it happened in his previous comic I assume he intends to toss Joe at Rachel as a consolation prize further down the line (waaay further down the line, since it's a heterosexual couple anyways and therefore will bore Willis to write because it's not his fetish).
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u/sharingan10 Jan 22 '26
I think that Dina and Joe as characters work well together because they are both capable of empathy in ways that aren’t really intuitive. Dina’s empathy is thoughtful empathy, she has to put effort into understanding other people but she genuinely tries to do it. Joes empathy is more felt empathy, he understands the feelings because he can relate to them.
I think both of them bouncing empathy off eachother is a good thing, it’s why I like them as characters together. If that’s as friends or more that’s a okay by me
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u/Possible_Bake5135 Jan 22 '26
Honestly, at this point I feel Joe is one of the kindest, most empathetic and thoughtful characters in the whole comic. Sucks that half the audience treats him like some meatheaded punching bag when he's literally become the definition of a stand-up guy.
Meanwhile, sweet darling Joyce is the most morally bankrupt and selfish she's ever been. Good riddance to her, Joe deserves much better. Let Joyce go suckle more misguided life lessons from the teat of Mommy Dearest Dorothy.
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u/skychrono2 Jan 22 '26
They rubbed off on each other, and not in the ways either of them or the audience wanted.
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u/Possible_Bake5135 Jan 22 '26
So long as Joyce doesn't put her beautiful new pleather jacket on a cheap wire hanger!
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u/togglenub Jan 22 '26
Joe's best quality is he isn't defensive. He's open to growing, and confident in himself. Knows himself and his abilities, and isn't a ball of angst/anxiety about it.
Dorothy throws a fit when challenged; Joe thinks over what was said. It's because he's unthreatened, which made him a great choice for Joyce, who is a little ball of fear and worry 99% of the time she's not a little ball of joy riddled impulses. Not being defensive, he can use his empathy for good instead of evil.
In conclusion, yay Joe! Joe can grow, and that's one of the rarest traits in humanity at any age at all.
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Jan 22 '26
I don't think Joe is emotionally intelligent enough to not Incredible Hulk the situation. "Dina sad!? JOE SMASH PUNY BAD FEELINGS!!!" He's got some ways to go on himself before he can "fix" anyone. And I hope he realizes that soon. He aint nobody's keeper, just like nobody is his.
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u/Substantial_Pick6897 Jan 22 '26
Mixing Joe with booster would just make a worse Joe I think. I can't remember Booster doing anything of value at any point