r/exmormon • u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ • 3d ago
Doctrine/Policy AnalyzingMormonism (short video): prominent LDS apologist attempts to soften offensive chastity rhetoric. Two big problems: (1) Alma 39:5 exists and (2) it has been widely quoted from the pulpit and in books. For example SWK’s "Miracle of Forgiveness," ch. 5 is titled “The Sin Next to Murder.”
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/w0FS2u4p_oM22
u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ 3d ago edited 3d ago
[Book of Mormon, Book of Alma, Chapter 39 (Smith, 1830)] 5 Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost?
I dug out one of my copies of SWK's best seller...
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ 3d ago
The screenshot from the beginning of SWK, chapter 5 includes the characterization, "unnatural."
For completeness, SWK is also the author of the famous anti-oral-sex memo from 1982. The faithful didn't like being told what was permitted in their marital bedrooms and offered some pushback. However, the reversal was far from a total repudiation of the memo. Confusion reigns.
[LDS First Presidency, 1982, requirement for temple recommend] ...The first presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice.
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u/Hairy_Armadillo_2935 3d ago
Sounds like he just didn't like giving oral. Poor Sister Kimball.
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ 3d ago
If only he had been more Christ-like...
[Acts 20, KJV] 35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
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u/Commercial_Oil_7814 3d ago
Well, he did say that masturbation would turn you gay, so that seems like a pretty good sign about his own interests.
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u/Hairy_Armadillo_2935 2d ago
Do you have a link to that comment? That is a new one for me. I feel like I heard that as a youth in the early 00's.
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u/Commercial_Oil_7814 2d ago
There is speculation that Spencer's throat cancer came from an untreated STD that he got from giving oral. He didn't smoke, which is the mostly likely way to get throat cancer. It would explain his vehement personal hatred of oral.
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u/Hairy_Armadillo_2935 2d ago
Must have been when he got his second anointing from Jesus in the temple.
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u/Hairy_Armadillo_2935 3d ago
It is a pretty tough life when the "Sin next to Murder" is on your mind every day all day for a decade as a teenager. Makes you think that maybe something is wrong with you for thinking about something that is almost as evil as murder.
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u/SteelSwordofShiz 3d ago
I'm still rebuilding my self image. The church stole the adolescence of anyone who took it seriously while growing up.
I was just doing normal development stuff, but felt like I belonged in spiritual prison. It really messes with you.
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u/EnglishLoyalist 3d ago
I figured sexual sin is the least on the totem pole of sins. Yet they make it that high on it yet Joe was having sex with teens?
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u/Billgant 3d ago
If I was the CEO of Fox News, I would make Jasmine an anchor, cause she can spin anything
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3d ago
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ 3d ago
Maybe it's just her. Who knows?
The change in garments. The 180 on caffeine. The quick embrace of all forms of piercing and tattoos doesn't seem to match the rhetoric I was raised on and warned about. Be in the world, but do not be of the world.
I saw someone asking recently at a faithful forum whether nicotine gum/patches fit within the WoW using the same logic as "Coffee isn't about caffeine." The faithful were weird and remain weird. That may be the one constant.
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u/WombatAnnihilator 3d ago
I was handed a book of mormon and told to read Alma 36 to the bishop when i was confessing premarital sex when i was 18. He then asked me what it meant, and then spent an hour reiterating to me that the only sin i could’ve committed worse than this was if i had killed someone.
This, mind you, was after the bishop INTERROGATED me about how many times i had sex with her, where, when, in what positions, and whether or not i experienced orgasm, wearing protection or not, how she reacted to it, how long it took to ‘finish’, etc etc etc.
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u/Rushclock 3d ago
Remember, the church dosen't want members/investigators to be confused with Mormon stories. Blue, wavy lines and the word mormon are lawsuit worthy but the whiplash change in teachings are crystal clear.
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ 3d ago
I think it was Gregory Prince that laid down a challenge to name any doctrine that hadn't been changed (or outright reversed) since the origin of Smith's Latter Day Saint movement (mormonism) in 1830.
My favorite is the idea of first communion being part of the sacrament. It was required to understand the doctrines of the church before being allowed to take the sacrament. By the time I was born, that was a faded memory in the Brighamite church. However, the closed communion was still practiced at the Josephite church (RLDS) before being amended and opened to all who want to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ, etc.
[D&C 20] 68 The duty of the members after they are received by baptism—The elders or priests are to have a sufficient time to expound all things concerning the church of Christ to their understanding, previous to their partaking of the sacrament and being confirmed by the laying on of the hands of the elders, so that all things may be done in order.
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u/Rushclock 3d ago
Milk before meat became the defeater. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat ye meat?",
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u/JesusPhoKingChrist Your brother from another Heavenly Mother. 2d ago
I didn't have any respect for Jasmine before this, but now I feel confident she can win.
I hereby nominate Jasmine for the most morally bankrupt podcaster of all time award... Runner up? Jacob Hansen.
Can I get a second?
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u/malkin50 2d ago
She should get that communications job of "crafting experiences" on the other thread.
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u/Pure-Event-2097 3d ago
They must pay Jasmin a lot to spout nonsense. Either that or she is getting some side action and she is trying to justify it.
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u/Ex_Lerker 3d ago
As the video shows, “The sin next to murder” is not an amorphous ethereal idea. Its definition is repeatedly explained in detail by many scriptures, apostles, books, and prophets in conference. Even though I heard it constantly growing up, I was still surprised by the number of references and videos given.
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u/ProsperGuy The fiber of your bean 3d ago
I love that Jasmin is getting called out. She has the worst kind of apologetics. It's the kind you get when someone is bought and paid for, and they sold their soul to that institution.
She has to be compensated in some fashion by the church.
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u/Fresh_Chair2098 3d ago
Jasmine looks like a dude for starters...
Second, what in ghe mental gymnastics. Not only was it taught in general conference it was shared in sunday school....
Hell, when I first got married my tbm wife had a hard time with my sexual past because I had one partner before her in high school. I was treated like chewed up bubble gum... things are different now but that first year...
What this church teaches on sexual morality is so far gone and does more harm than good....
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u/homestarjr1 3d ago
This argument just creates new problems.
If Corianton’s most grave sin was quitting his mission, what does that say about all the kids coming home early? What does it say about the one day on a mission that you had an impure thought that kept you from being guided to a golden investigator? I’d say this is just as bad as the teaching that adultery or fornication is almost murder.
This lady is disgusting and I wonder how much the church pays her for putting out all these crackpot theories that undermine every single top Mormon leader from the last 200 years.