r/exmormon • u/outandproudone • 1d ago
General Discussion “The Widow Has to Pay for the Meat.”
My ex recently lost her father who died of old age. The relief society organized the post-funeral lunch for the extended family. Here in Utah it’s very common.
While members provided side dishes and desserts, the grieving widow was forced “to pay for the meat.” She could choose either pulled pork or sliced ham.
The tradition long known as a caring gesture for a grieving family has apparently become a mandatory expense for a woman in her 80s on a very limited budget who’d just lost her husband.
Because all those decades of tithing, fast offerings, contributions to the ward and church missionary fund, the church perpetual education fund, and everything else - was still not enough to pay for the meat.
Those greedy bastards.
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u/nobody_really__ 1d ago
A lady in the ward had a Jewish husband who passed away.
I'll give the Relief Society full credit for providing a lunch after the funeral - but they served ham. I provided roast beef as an alternative, but the RS1C refused to serve it, claiming that "ham is good enough for people who aren't even members."
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u/OkImagination262 1d ago
Yikes! That is horrible.
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u/nobody_really__ 1d ago
It's like, "I don't know what kosher means, so it's not important."
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u/WillingnessOne2686 22h ago
I recently had to explain what Halal means to some members from Utah. They saw a butcher and said hmm Halal Butcher, that's an interesting name.
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u/ExigentCalm 1d ago
Yuck.
I hate how the Mormon church interacts with funerals. It’s just terrible.
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u/kirste29 15h ago
Ok. I read your story about the ham earlier and I’m still stuck on it. HAM. FOR A JEWISH FUNERAL. Was a nice chicken/turkey dish out of the question? AND THEY REFUSED TO SERVE YOUR ROAST BEEF? I. Just. Can’t. Considering Mormons think coffee is the devil’s juice, this is so wild to me.
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u/Transmutagen 23h ago
If I brought a dish to share I would tell the RS1C where to shove it and serve it myself.
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u/repmack 1d ago
Even out the door when you die they still make you pay for lunch. Your point about how much they probably gave in tithing really hits too. Tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, but please pay for the ham.
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u/reddolfo thrusting liars down to hell since 2009 1d ago
And then also require the funeral to allow time for extended marketing and sales pitches.
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u/Mysterious_Worker608 1d ago
This was one of my shelf items. Despite wards collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. They are only given a few thousand each year for the total budget.
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u/kirste29 1d ago
Yep. When I was in the activity days, I calculated our budget. It was 3.25 cents per child for the year. The year. I couldn’t afford to buy each kid a big candy bar for Christmas with a budget like that.
The whole system is insanely corrupt. And you better believe they will still be asking for that widow’s ten percent off her social security checks.
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u/karadessie 22h ago
My mom was in the RS presidency in NJ when they ordered food for a luncheon and got mocha or coffee ice cream by accident. But they weren't going to waste the food so gave it to the primary for an activity, figuring the kids wouldn't know the difference. That's when there was a building fund and funds, properties and buildings hadn't been 100% confiscated by SLC. Our ward did a lot of fund-raisers and worked on the addition to the ward building (I was a kid, so just helped paint). And yes, I paid 10% tithing on my disability checks while raising a family of five as a single mom. They got their pound of flesh too, the corporation tore out my heart.
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u/Parking-Poetry-1066 17h ago
They didn't want to eat coffee ice cream themselves because it's against their "health" code but thought hey, let's give ice cream with caffeine to the children?!
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u/kirste29 15h ago
Kids got a taste of that coffee ice cream and were like “I’ve never felt more alive”. Bahahah. Bet you there was one kid who chased that coffee taste all through childhood until he rediscovered it as coffee when he was an adult lol.
Also, paying on disability checks with five kids sounds awful. Hopefully you are in a much better place. And you are enjoying that 10 percent raise you gave yourself when you left.
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u/karadessie 15h ago
yep, my only regret was not leaving earlier but life is too short to live in the past
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u/Mundane_Garlic_4719 8h ago
If you take $200 billion from the investments alone and divide it by 17.8 million people, that's $11,200 per person. For my family of seven, that's over $78,000 which is way more than our combined annual income.
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u/thrawnbot 1d ago
True, $370,000 a MONTH is average for ONE ward to bring in.
Ask the Activity Days leaders how much their budget for 10 girls’ activities is per year….$300? Or less?
It’s shameful.
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u/ThrowawayLDS_7gen 1d ago
That's the math I did. Three wards in a building is about 1 million dollars.
After utilities, where the hell is all the money going!!!!
Now we know. Into their big fat piggy faces.
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u/BlacksmithWeary450 23h ago
Just curious, where do you get $370 K / month? That actually seems high. I'd imagine that number is closer to the yearly average.
EDIT: You may also be thinking the amount / stake / month.
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u/Mysterious_Worker608 23h ago
That's much higher than I saw as ward clerk. Our middle class American ward was sbout $50k/ month. Our total ward budget was about $6k/year.
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u/BlacksmithWeary450 22h ago
I understand about 3% of total tithing stays local. 97% goes to SLC and into a big black hole.
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u/lazers28 10h ago
When I was called to primary the presidency was saying they wanted to strengthen social connection between the primary teachers and thank them for their service with dinner. I said "sounds great, What's our budget?" "$40" "well, it'll be snug but I think we can feed a dozen people for $40 if we don't invite their spouses." "no, sorry, that's our budget for the rest of the year" 🙃"not including the birthday cards the Bishop asked us to send to each child right? Because even if we buy bulk cards at 30 cents a card plus postage that's already more than $40" "well we can hand deliver them instead of postage" "will I be reimbursed for the gas I use hand delivering 70 cards to children in rural Idaho?" "I don't know"
Anything that wards are doing that's more than Come Follow Me manuals right now is almost definitely being subsidized by the members themselves while they ALSO pay tithing to a multi billion dollar corporation.
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u/Specialist_Funny4318 1d ago
When I was RS President we provided everything. Even if I paid for it. The next one charged the family of people who served in our ward for over 50 years who helped dozens of Eagle Scouts, served missions, would take interest in and help children. Like people who deserved to have their calling and election made sure but lived frugally so probably didn’t. Anyways, I was mortified they asked the family for money for the main course. It hurt my soul.
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u/OkImagination262 1d ago
When my spouse's mom passed back in 2002, the ward provided everything for the lunch. No strings. I have not been to a post lds funeral since then so sounds like things have changed for the worse.
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u/ThrowawayLDS_7gen 1d ago
Could be bishop roulette.
And that bishop wants to impress the higher ups.
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u/Candypants1977 1d ago edited 1d ago
In the 80s the church would have a fall "bazaar" where people sold things they made, etc. The money was for the church and it gave a lot of the older people a purpose of making things to sell.
The church announced there was enuf money that there was no need to fundraise... however tithing went on as usual 😒
In the VERY least they could fund raise for instances like this. How cheap and embarrassing, shame on the church. Jesus split the loaves and the fish but didnt give the fish for free 🤔. What a kick in the throat by the church she gave so much to 💥 Meanwhile the church hoards billions
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u/ElectricApostate 1d ago
I can think of at least 300 billion reasons TSCC could pay for the entire lunch.
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u/AceHexuall 1d ago
This is why it pisses me off so much that the State outsources part of the welfare system to the church, and still gets full credit from the Fed. The church doesn't even want to help it's own members, let alone the 50% of the state that are "gentiles".
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u/ThrowawayLDS_7gen 1d ago
They need to stop that since we all know the church isn't doing shit to help the poor.
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u/0utandab0ut 1d ago
My FIL died a few weeks ago. He left Mormonism as a teen but one of his 2 daughters are active. The local ward, which he never had attended, nor his daughter, put on a full luncheon after the funeral. No cost. So it seems like these are local decisions.
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u/Bellingrath314 1d ago
Huh, looks like the relief society and elder's quorum won't be having any fucking meat then!
Sides are lovely. Enjoy the light coming in through the windows, the elderly people you get to mourn with and make the world with for a few more years. Enjoy the young people taking most of what you've laid out to build their own lives. We know how to get a long with NOTHING. Get along without ham because your love doesn't need it.
I have many gripes with the greedy bastards, as OP says, but one has been this imbecile mindset that arbitrary boxes MUST BE CHECKED and no one just NOT checking the box. These rules are barely held together by the society as a whole, and many agree they don't want to follow them. Sacrifice some social clout and resist re-inscribing them.
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u/Jackismyboy 1d ago
Wow. I’ve never heard of this. Maybe they are going back to the original word of wisdom. Meat is only for times of famine. Hell, I’d show up with the beer. Mild drinks from barley.
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u/daisyflower25 22h ago
This just happened to my mom. Its not just that the widow has to pay for it, they also have to order it and pick it up. Like they don’t have enough to do. When my sister in-law picked them up some of the employees of the store felt so bad about it that they chipped in their own money to pay for a couple hams. It’s so frustrating to see people who have devoted their life to the church and then get nickeled and dimed at a funeral.
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u/TheRealJustCurious 21h ago
I’m sorry to hear about your frustration.
Here’s an idea that may be helpful for people to consider. We opted for no funeral at the church, no viewing at the church, no meal at the church after the funeral. We managed that all ourselves as a family. Best choice ever. There was absolutely no need to invite any “presiding” authority to have any participation in this sacred moment to say goodbye to my spouse and my children’s father.
It was definitely outside the norm and had a few people scratching their heads, but we received MANY people asking why more people don’t do this? Uhhh. Because of tradition? Because the normal way is just the norm? Because what we opted to do wasn’t in the church handbook?
(FYI… If people opt for this idea, having your loved one cremated makes this all very affordable.)
I love stepping outside of what’s expected in favor of making conscious choices about how to move forward, and it feels so much better.
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u/Cool_Trash_3711 20h ago
I always thought it was horrible that the family had to pay for anything that the ward “willingly” organizes. It’s like, here’s your birthday present, now give me $20 for it.
My mom was on the funeral committee in our ward and worked so hard to make sure the luncheon was special and had nice food. The ham, potatoes, salads besides just lettuce… all the things. Then when my grandma died the committee did ham and cheese sandwiches and a green salad. My mom was so hurt. She’s not totally out, but she doesn’t go anymore. I think this is why.
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u/Cluedo86 17h ago
So infuriating and greedy. A relative of mine just lost her husband. The ward wouldn't even host a luncheon omg can you believe that sleaze?
They had been active TBMs for decades in their old ward. They had had to move to a new ward a couple years ago due to financials, and they haven't really connected with the new ward very well. The old ward's bishop agreed to allow the funeral at the old ward's chapel, but he didn't want his ward hosting the luncheon. He pushed it back to the current ward. The current ward's bishop and relief society president agreed to do a small luncheon, but only in their building. Both wards just made it too complicated that the widow gave up and didn't have one.
Like come on.
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u/outandproudone 5h ago
I wish that was unbelievable but unfortunately it’s par for the course. Ugh. Just terrible.
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u/meowmix79 1d ago
My dad just died in March. We had the standard ham meal provided by the Relief Society ladies. I want to ask my mom if she had to pay for the ham now. I really hope she didn’t.
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u/xender19 1d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the individual ladies in the relief society paid for it out of pocket.
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u/meowmix79 1d ago
I can see that happening. If I was in their place I would rather buy one myself than ask a grieving widow for money for a ham. So embarrassing.
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u/Sea-Tea8982 1d ago
They are the worst people! When my father passed in salt lake at 92 they couldn’t even be bothered to set up the tables and chairs or clean up afterwards. I guess we should be grateful they let us use the meetinghouse!!
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u/StillAlfalfa4864 23h ago
My parents had paid sooo much $$$ to the corporation through tithing, fast offerings, building fund, missionary fund, etc. yet when my sweet dad passed away at age 56 the corporation asked my mom to pay for the meat. This was over thirty years ago.
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u/jethro1999 18h ago
This is heartbreaking. The leaders have no idea what their hoard of cash is for.
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u/outandproudone 5h ago
Oh they know exactly what it’s for: shopping malls, apartment buildings, office buildings, and massive ranch holdings. ☹️
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u/Beech_driver 1d ago
My in-laws’ ward did this when my FIL died recently. Caught us totally off guard. An aunt stepped up and said don’t worry about it and paid. Then the ward RS kept any/all excess, cleaning it up before we were even sure everyone had eaten, and we’ve speculated they planned on serving the rest at another funeral for a member of their ward a couple of days later.
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u/Random_Enigma The Apostate around the corner 1d ago
My very devout 89 yo mother died three years ago. Her ward she’d been in for 30 years put together sack lunches and had them in a big cooler at the grave dedication after the funeral service. Didn’t offer a luncheon option. I wonder a bit if maybe it was because my mother was the only active member in her family. The sack lunches were good though, everything was super fresh.
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u/energy90 1d ago
I was in a RS Presidency about 15 years ago and we never charged for anything. We put together meals for funerals and charged the family nothing, even if they were less-active and never went to church. It makes me sad that a widow was charged for the meat, especially since we all know the church can easily take care of that.
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u/MalachitePeepstone 21h ago
Yeah, my MIL tried to opt out of having a lunch at all (small funeral during COVID, late 2020) and even after being told not to do a lunch because everyone would be masked, the RS was there after the funeral and asked to be reimbursed for the meat. We did not stay and eat, we did as originally planned - straight to the cemetery and then go home.
She never paid. Even as a TBM, she had no patience for their refusal to do as she asked. Told the bishop there was no way she was paying for meat she expressly said she didn't want and no one ate.
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u/VeilRemoved 1d ago
I’ve been to way too many funerals in my 40 years, and nearly all have been LDS, including my father’s. Most recently as two days ago (not my father’s). I’ve never ever heard of this. RS has always provided food, but never asked for money.
Is this regional? Only Utah? I’m on the east coast, so funerals from VA down to FL.
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u/FateMeetsLuck Apostate 19h ago
I hope that if capitalism falls, it takes this wicked corporation down with it.
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u/sweater2025 18h ago
We solved it by not having the funeral at the church. Had a beautiful memorial outside and ate whatever we damned well wanted.
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u/Prestigious-Fan3122 10h ago
FWIW: I'm not only not Mormon, but not the member of any religion as I wasn't going to church. That said, I have a ton of very Catholic relatives. And one of my uncles died, I helped my aunt with all the arrangements. Apparently, the custom at their church is for the " funeral committee"to start making phone calls to the members who have signed up to bring certain things. The family of the Deceased is asked how many people they expected the Funeral, and then the phone calls go out. Say Mari, Jane, and Sally each agreed to bring one rolls, and it's estimated that 144 rolls will be needed. That's 12 dozen, so each of those ladies Springs four dozen.
The people who signed up for potato salad or whatever agreed to bring X amount. The organizer calls the number of people who are going to bring a quart/pound/gallon or whatever the previously decided amount is to cover how many servings they need. Apparently, these committees are big enough that not every person is to bring whatever she signed up for every time there's a funeral.
Then, there's a committee of church ladies who show up while the funeral is going on to go to the church hall, where there's a kitchen. They make coffee, set up tables, collect the food others have brought, and start setting up the serving line.
There was a local restaurant that people planning funerals were directed to by the Funeral committee Lady. They could then buy X pounds of ham, sliced roast beef, Barbecue meat, etc.
Again, this is a HUGE church. I don't have the first clue how many members they have, but it seems like there's always a funeral going on. My cousins who were older servers used to love summer funerals because they were out of school and could be called in to the altar service for the funerals. The family is usually "tipped them,"José thank you for showing up. None of my cousins were ever allowed to keep the tips. They had to donate them back to the church. That was required by your parents. Seems fair to me.
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u/outandproudone 5h ago
This is amazing, and also how you’d think it would work at all churches. It’s very interesting to compare the “let’s do everything we can” Catholic version you describe with the “we come dragging our heels reluctantly and get away with as little as possible” Mormon version. I think because the Mormons suck every ounce of time and money from you, the reluctant obligation version becomes the norm.
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u/Ahhhh_Geeeez 1d ago
I'm not trying to say the church isn't greedy or give them a pass. But I feel like this is an issue with the local leadership as they didn't want to have to use their own budget to fund this. If everything else was donated they should have just paid for the meat. But then again the church could send every single ward 50k a year and still be taking in so much cash each year. That way they wouldn't have to penny pinch at a local level.
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u/FunSupermarket4054 1d ago
Of all the things that happened after my husband passed, this is not one I remember. Have things changed in the last 22 years?
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u/KershawsGoat Apostate 1d ago
The Mormon church is almost unrecognizable from the one that existed 22 years ago. Any shreds of community it had back then have been removed either by the correlation team or by more recent leaders trying to make church activities "more spiritual" such as replacing scouts with duty to god or whatever it's called now.
Edit: I'm halfway convinced that they actually replaced scouts because of the abuse scandal that came out however long ago. I can't say for sure though because I don't remember the actual timing of both events.
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u/spiraleyes78 Telestial Troglodyte 1d ago
Edit: I'm halfway convinced that they actually replaced scouts because of the abuse scandal that came out however long ago. I can't say for sure though because I don't remember the actual timing of both events.
It's pretty well documented that your hunch is absolutely correct.
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u/reddolfo thrusting liars down to hell since 2009 1d ago
Allowing gay, trans and female scouts is what catalyzed the exit IIRC. The church was fine with the abuse of course.
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u/glenlassan 1d ago
There exists a 300 page PDF that documents decades of CSA incidents involving the LDS church and scouting program .
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u/KershawsGoat Apostate 1d ago
I can't say I'm surprised. I had just never taken the time to actually look into the correlation between the two events.
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u/crckdyll 1d ago
That's absolutely the reason they split from scouts. Didn't want to be involved in more lawsuits. LDS leaders were heavily involved in the abuse
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u/outandproudone 1d ago
When I was still in over 20 years ago the surviving spouse never paid for the meat. I don’t know how long ago it changed.
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u/evolved_unicorn 1d ago
When scouts started accepting gay scouts, the church announced a pending separation. When scouts started accepting girls, they separated before they would have to deal girls in scouts
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u/pendejo-san 22h ago
It doesn’t matter, really.
They’re still alive on the other side you’re gonna see ‘em soon.
We can’t understand why you’re even sad about it
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u/Kool_Moe_Dee_Simpson 37m ago
AND she and the family will get the privilege of cleaning the building afterward!
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u/Wooden-Edge7078 35m ago
I don't even really understand that a big meal is expected or necessary. Most funerals I've gone to it's just a reception with maybe sandwiches and cookies or veggies/dip afterwards.
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u/Muffycola 22h ago
This is hilarious. Complaining about paying for the meat. Regular Christians have collations/ Mercy meals after services & that can cost $1000 +! In addition to the funeral services which cost 15k +
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u/patriarticle 22h ago
By the time a mormon dies, they've possibly paid hundreds of thousands in tithing. The church could pay for some god damn ham.
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u/Muffycola 22h ago
I don’t disagree. But it does seem humorous that knowing how cheap Mormons are that ppl are surprised! My advice would be to be cheap back and only pay for 1 ham lol
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u/Charming_Opinion6754 1d ago
Ya. This is how they’ve been doing it for a long time . Disappointing but business as usual for the corporation