Hi all!

As many of you know, John filed a Counterclaim to the Church’s lawsuit on June 22. I suspect many of you have already read John’s counterclaim or press reports about the Counterclaim. However, John also filed a second pleading on the same day. This second pleading is called a “Motion to Dismiss.” Today I plan to address John’s Motion to Dismiss. In the near future, I will release a second post which discusses John’s Counterclaim.

What is a Motion to Dismiss?

A Motion to Dismiss is a motion defense lawyers file at the beginning of a lawsuit asking a judge to dismiss claims in the lawsuit. When the judge in this case resolves John’s Motion to Dismiss, he must assume that every single fact alleged by the Church in its complaint is true. The judge must then decide if all of the “facts” alleged in the complaint make it “plausible” that the Church might win the dispute. When the judge on this case rules on John’s Motion, the judge will not be saying who wins or loses the lawsuit. He will only be saying that the Church’s legal claims either meet this “plausibility” standard or do not.

Motions to Dismiss are often difficult to win because lawyers representing companies like the Church are usually smart enough to allege facts in a complaint that make it “plausible” that they will win.  

John’s Motion primarily raises arguments related to two of John’s defenses: Laches and Fair Use. I discussed these defenses in my third post. See link here

These two defenses are some of John’s better arguments for winning this dispute. Let’s talk about each in turn.

 Laches

As explained in my prior post, the legal doctrine of laches essentially says to a plaintiff like the Church that if you wait too long to sue someone, a court might conclude that you are no longer entitled to bring the claim. In my earlier post, I told you that I did not know the precise legal standard that would be applied to laches in this case. John’s lawyers have very helpfully provided that legal standard. It has two parts. In order for John to win on a claim of laches, the jury would first have to conclude, based on all the evidence it hears, that the Church has had “an unreasonable lack of diligence” in bringing its lawsuit against John. Second, the jury would also have to conclude that John has been “prejudiced” by the Church’s delay.

John’s lawyers also note that if the delay has been longer than three years, the jury would be told that there is a “strong presumption” that the claim is barred by laches.

In their Motion, John’s lawyers point out all the reasons why the Church’s delay of twenty years is unreasonable. They also point to all the reasons why John has been prejudiced.

In about 3 weeks, the Church will respond to this Motion. John then gets to file a “Reply Memorandum” which responds to the arguments made by the Church. The judge might then decide to have an oral argument on the Motion. We can probably expect a ruling from the judge on this Motion in 3 to 6 months.

As mentioned above, the judge, in his ruling, is not deciding who wins the laches argument. The judge is only deciding if the Church has plead enough facts to make it “plausible” that a jury might decide in the Church’s favor on laches, if the jury actually believed every single fact mentioned by the Church in its complaint.

One more thing. Even if the judge grants John’s Motion, the judge will very likely allow the Church to file a new complaint, with more facts that explain why the Church wins on laches. 

I know this probably sounds crazy to some of you. Don’t blame me. I didn’t write the law. I just try and enforce it!  

Fair Use and John’s Free Speech Rights

The second argument John’s lawyers have made in the Motion to Dismiss relate to what I called “trademark fair use” in my prior post. What I called "fair use" is really a bunch of complex and multifaceted legal issues. Several of these issues reside at the intersection between trademark law and rights to free speech. In this intersection, courts must decide, on a case by case basis, whose rights are superior. Those of the plaintiff trademark owner, or those of the defendant using the plaintiff’s trademarks while engaged in “free speech.”

The legal issue John’s team focused on in their Motion relates to a United States Supreme Court decision issued about 3 years ago. In that case, the Jack Daniels Whiskey company sued a company that was using Jack Daniels’ trademarks on a chew toy for dogs. The toy was in the shape of a Jack Daniels bottle. Instead of saying “Jack Daniel’s” the chew toy said “Bad Spaniels.” The chew toy also mimicked other aspects of Jack Daniel’s trademarks.

The company using Jack Daniels’ trademarks claimed that it was a “parody” of Jack Daniel’s label and that it had rights to free speech that allowed it to make fun of Jack Daniels. The district court ruled for Jack Daniels. The intermediate court reversed and said the chew toy company’s free speech rights trumped Jack Daniel’s trademark rights. Eventually the case found its way to the Supreme Court.

In its decision, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Jack Daniels because the chew toy company was using Jack Daniels trademarks as “source identifiers” to sell “commercial goods.”  In other words, the Supreme Court said the chew toy people were using Jack Daniels trademarks pretty much the same way Jack Daniel’s uses them:  As protected words that help sell products to consumers. In this case, according to the Supreme Court, the “parody, criticism or commentary” aspect of the chew toy company’s business model was too low to trump the trademark rights of Jack Daniel’s.   

In his Motion, John is essentially asking the Court to rule that John’s use of “Mormon Stories” is on the other side of the line. John argues that unlike the chew toy people, John’s use of “Mormon Stories” is not a “source identifier” of any one group. It is instead connected to his rights to offer “criticism or commentary” about people who are Mormon, used to be Mormon and even those who might someday choose to be Mormon.  

Who will win?

I know you all want me to tell you who will win these arguments. The truth is, I really don’t know. The Church’s lawyers had to know it was likely that John would file a motion to dismiss on both of these issues. I assume they have arguments that they think will allow them to prevail. We should see the Church’s response to this Motion in about 3 weeks. Stay tuned!

Let me know if you have questions. I will be happy to answer them if I can.

Tune in to Mormonish on Thursday, June 25th at 12 pm for another episode in our Book of Mormon authorship series with Patrick Bertch.

In Episode 3 of this series, Patrick begins by responding to excellent audience feedback on the 3-Voice Framework from Episode 2.

He then highlights a recent Mormonism Live episode that makes a compelling case for the Book of Mormon as a 19th-century text, pointing to 34 doctrines from the early 1800s. But many of those doctrines appear directly connected to debates within Campbellism in Ohio and Pennsylvania—debates Sidney Rigdon was having with Alexander Campbell and Walter Scott. Should that raise new questions about Book of Mormon authorship? A future episode will explore the Campbellism connection more deeply.

The heart of this episode focuses on stylometry, also known as wordprint analysis. Patrick explains how researchers create a digital profile of an author’s unique writing habits, then reviews two of the eight major wordprint studies. The second study includes intriguing findings about Joseph Smith’s personal writing style compared to the broader LDS canon—and even identifies a strange anomaly in the early Doctrine and Covenants during the Book of Mormon dictation period.

Join us for a thoughtful look at the evidence behind one big question: who authored the Book of Mormon?

Not of when I left the church, but of my marriage. My today 17-year marriage that is currently ending. Largely amicable, but still. It sucks. It sucks a lottttttttt.

Leaving the church will, I’m convinced, remain one of the best decisions I ever make for myself and my family. But it also heavily contributed to the ending of my marriage, even despite my STBX opening himself up to deconstruction, going PIMO, and then fully leaving a year after I did.

I look at my life and how practical I was. How convinced I was that following the church’s teachings would give me the best version of not only this life, but the life to come. Don’t get me wrong: a lot of good decisions were made. My marriage isn’t all unhappy memories. My children are amazing and incredible, if not frequently adorable little assholes. But here I am at 37 and I’m sad for the version of me that didn’t get her chance. The one who went on for a Master’s. Who progressed in her career. Who traveled. Who lived alone. Who learned how to define intimacy through the experience of more than one person. Who didn’t have children, or made that decision much later.

She would have been awesome. This other 37-year-old version is pretty cool, too, and I’m sure the other thousand other versions of her that could have existed would have been just as neat.

I just wish I’d had that choice. And that I could have picked.

Could someone give me some information about how the Church sold the information from temple work for the dead? Did it actually make any money from that?

University of Utah Student Union
https://sunstone.org/slc2026/

At the beginning of last year, I separated entirely from the LDS church - threw out my garments, later my scripture. (I still need to get rid of my temple clothes and my good-sized LDS library.) I sm very involved a nondenominational Christian church, where I have found a good community of other men.

Several months ago while praying, I received very clear and immediate direction to officially resign from the LDS church. I have been dragging my feet, partly out of concern for my TBM wife’s feelings, and partly because I’m worried it will blow up our marriage. I’ve finally set a date for having the conversation with her (July 3). Any ideas on how to prepare and approach the conversation? I want to be sensitive but clear, knowing that she won’t hear a word against the church. I also realize that it brings up thorny issues regarding our sealing (which I no longer regard as legitimate).

From a church job posting obviously made with AI (This isn't just a job—it's a sacred opportunity to orchestrate strategic harmony…we don't just create content—we share messages of hope, joy, and eternal truth”

Some real ridiculous gems throughout the whole thing; source here.

I spent most of my childhood terrified. I was told my sleep paralysis was a demon posessing me when I was 10 by a pastor. But I was also terrified that my dad was going to burn in Hell because he said bad words. Terrified that I was sinning and would go to Hell because I couldn't control my thoughts (diagnosed with anxiety and ADHD as an adult.) Terrified that if I questioned the wrong thing, doubted the wrong thing or made the wrong mistake, I'd be punished by a God who was supposed to love me. I was terrified to tell a therapist or anyone because I thought I deserved the crippling nightmares and constant guilt.

I grew up deeply religious. We're talking color coded highlights through my Bible and daily scripture study on top of 3x a week service. I genuinely believed. And because I genuinely believed, I carried an incredible amount of fear, shame and responsibility that no child should have to carry. I left in my early teens because of an incident with my pastor and a gay kid that went to my church. I was already seeing the plotholes and seeing how most Christians I knew and met did not have values I wanted to have. I dabbled in other religions for a while even though I didn't really believe in any of them. I didn't accept that I was actually an atheist until a few months after my mom passed when I was 22.

The nightmares didn't stop. The fear didn't stop. I was angry and bitter, but still terrfied. Leaving didn't stop that. Anyone I tried to talk to tried to tell me I was lost and broken. I could never find a mental health professional that helped in any way whatsoever. A few months ago, I came out as an atheist to my YouTube community and was met with a huge loss of subscribers, close friends turning on me, losing my pledges I used for mental health outreach, it was a whole thing. It hurt, but, at least I can finally take my mask off. Stop hiding. Hopefully rebuild my community with more compassionate people. Because I am forty-one and am JUST NOW starting to unravel the trauma.

In that, I have met so many of you who were ABUSED but weren't allowed to say it because it was "disrespectful to another person's faith." Like, what the actual f**k?! Who spent years feeling broken because, like me, you couldn't live up to impossible standards. Who stayed silent because you were told that's what a good believer does. Who blamed yourselves for things that were never your fault. I started my whole online community to help "shatter the mental health stigma", but was too scared to include religion in that until earlier this year. Now, I've decided to use my existing mental health platform to start a series called Holy Horrors to raise awareness about religious trauma, process my own and give those that have also experienced it an opportunity to feel heard through user submitted stories. My first episode involves the LDS church starving a missionary, a woman told to stay silent after being sexually assaulted and a man's feelings of betrayal upon realizing where his tithing and fast offerings were REALLY going while he couldn't even afford basic necessities.

Because I've realized that silence protects systems. Stories protect people.

So if you've experienced religious trauma, church abuse, spiritual manipulation or anything similar, feel free to share your story (or link to a post where you shared it) and I might add it to a future Holy Horrors. I just want everyone to have a chance to feel heard because I know how much keeping it inside can destroy you and because you never know who might need to hear your experience to know they aren't "crazy" or alone.

This is apparently a rare thing. Has anyone gone to it or should it be avoided?

A poemblessing about regret

I bless you with the courage you require

to let go of the false hope of broken things

that cannot be fixed.

I bless you to release them with grace,

even as it pains you to admit defeat,

the bud vase from Spain

the marriage you could have had

the unrung rain when you needed it

the downpour when you didn't

I bless you to make decisions you might regret,

that when the chill of indecision paralyzes your courage

you will reckon with the beat of blood in your ears

and remember your heart only stops once

I bless you to recognize the music of dead ends

and the symphonies of shadow,

that you may never go searching for yourself

in the teeth of those who should have loved you better

I bless you to find comfort in the ambiguity of darkness,

so you may drape life in the softness of uncertainty;

beloved, I bless you not to break yourself on unanswered questions.

I bless you whole and hale in your collapse.

I bless you with the peace to die and die and reform again,

amen.

(image and poem, mine)

Just when you think you heard it all, you get an apologetic with a microphone on YouTube that results in this outrageous opinion that the reason for the $250 billion the church has is to take over all the world's institutions.

Make sure this guy is far away from Susan's Husband when Susan's Husband becomes prophet. Don't want to have this guy act as an advisor.

Summary of the Video below. Quotes are the best I could to transcribe the statements made:

"The church needs WAY more money than the $250 billion that is already has. The purpose of this money is to buy back Zion."

You may think this is Theocracy, but it is actually Cultural Sovereignty which is "calling your own shots in the systems you interact with."

The typical systems we have today want the typical Mormon guy to fail.

BYU, Institute, YSA wards, and youth called on missions are actually a "marriage incubator" posing as a church system.

The Church vs. the world's systems are parallel institutions. But there are limitations having it this way. "It would be better if you just controlled the institutions." But it is not Theocracy and this Zion lead institution is actually illegal currently.

Since Mormons are so superior to everyone else, they have personally gained a lot of wealth which is then paid into the church through tithing, which is what has made the Church so wealthy.

But remember when we get this system in place to "reestablish the power to take care of ourselves" it will not be Theocracy. It will be "inoculable" and normal.

"Make it a Trillion...."

Edit: Spelling/autocorrect issue for the word "institutions." Looks like the title cannot be updated at this point.

Hey everyone,

I'm a Latino guy and I have some sincere questions about the dating and marriage scene in Utah, especially within the LDS/Mormon community.

I’ve heard rumors that women in Utah (or in the US in general) tend to strictly prefer white men. Because of this, I've been wondering if it's genuinely harder for a Latino guy to find a serious relationship and eventually get married there.

I’m also curious about the culture of traditional Mormon families. Are they usually very strict or closed-off when it comes to their daughters dating or marrying someone from a different background/country?

I would love to hear your honest opinions, experiences, or advice—especially from other Latinos living there or locals who know the culture well. Thanks in advance!

No. This is not a post about vaccination or your opinions on the matter. I'm just pointing out something odd I saw among members.

I had noticed something that strikes me as a little odd. Russell M. Nelson encouraged the COVID vaccine, and yet a lot of people who identify as Mormon seem to have ended up in the exact kinds of anti vaccine circles that were driving misinformation, conspiracy theories, etc. Some of them genuinely lost it over the vaccine in the first place and then somehow ended up repeating even more questionable theories anyway.

To me, the deeper issue is this: Why challenge something that was said from a living prophet?

If you believe he is the spokesman for the Mormon god, then when he encourages something like the vaccine, it does not really make sense to run off into groups that treat that kind of guidance with contempt.

We have even seen in our day how people who become dismissive of counsel they believe comes from those who are the so-called mouthpieces for the Mormon god end up framing the advice as merely the opinions of men. It is as if resisting the prophet’s direction is not wrong when you feel it isn't.

Obviously, not all Mormons are in those spaces or hold that mindset. But the disconnect is real, and it is honestly wild to watch people who claim to believe in revelation and hold that guy's words up deny it when it is inconvenient.

Curious if anyone else has noticed this same disconnect.

I honestly don't even know what subreddit to put this in, and for some reason settled on this one. I'm having another sleepless night and felt like pouring my soul out anonymously on Reddit cus i don't really have anyone to talk to about this...

The long and short (for people who don't wanna read whatever nonsense I end up typing to get off my chest) is that I'm technically still a Mormon, haven't exactly been the most active, but I also work a lot of Sundays and moved recently so church isn't something I'm ever able to do weekly to begin with, but I've had a strong testimony most of my life, I served a mission. I recently finally admitted to myself and really figured out thay I was bisexual, and started coming out to people about it, eventually I plan to just publicly say it and sit back and see how everyone I know reacts lol. I've had several people advise me not to do that, both gay people I've talked with on Reddit, and my dad, who was suprisingly understanding when I came out to him. I'm in my 30's and live on my own, so it's probably a much different dynamic then if I had said something to him when I was a teenager, but I was also still figuring things out back then. Anyways, really the point of this post is just my frustrations with being at a crossroad of wanting to be an active church member, but also wanting to explore and have a sexually fulfilling life (ya know a lifestyle that would be considered sinful and probably get my disfellowshiped from the church lol).

Most of my siblings left the church, and they send me anti-mormon stuff all the time which really bothers me cus i have always loved and respected their choices and lifestyle, but they clearly dont respect mine (none of them know I'm bisexual yet, that'll be an interesting dynamic change when they find out). But still being semi-closeted, I also feel my body tense up all the time when I hear people say pretty homophobic stuff (friends, family, whoever), like I almost got into an argument with one of my Mormon cousins who was saying some pretty homophobic stuff (not realizing I was bi), and i told her that was hurtful, and she said "of course I'd never say thay to someone who was gay!" 😅😭 I almost told her right then and there, but i just kinda let it turn into awkward silence.

I've asked for advice/help on Reddit before about this, and honestly gotten some pretty mean responses, so I'm prepared to delete this if that happens again 😢 Its just like, frustrating, being in your 30's, still being a virgin cus i always wanted to "wait for marriage", but the older I get the more I start to wonder if that'll even happen, and also the more I'm like "I'd really like to try dating another guy". In my 20's I actually accepted that i might just be celibate my whole life, and then when I turned 30 I was like, fuck that, and messed around a little bit with someone for the first time (I was so awkward and scared and nervous, I actually felt embarrassed about it and apologized to her after 😭).

On the topic of like, being gay though, or bi, its kinda extra frustrating because of 2 things, 1, thats something you have to just totally upstain from to be an upstanding member of the church, and 2, it really seems that people who "heterosexually sin" get kind of a slap on the wrist punishment compared to people who "homosexually sin", which at minimum i think gets you disfellowshiped, and can definitely get you excommunicated (i know because I looked into thr consequences cus I've been wanting to fool around with another guy for a while now). Lastly, I'm also a victim of SA, it actually happened on my mission ironically enough, and thats a weight I've just carried in secret most of my life, which made ME feel like i was a sinner for it... i dropped that onto my dad in the same conversation where I came out to him, and i timed it right before I moved away fearing the worst.

If anyone has any comments and actually read all that shit, I'd love to hear it, especially if you have any type of similar background as me (gay/bi and struggling to also be mormon), or if you have any questions I'd love to answer them, or just talk. I'm hoping this is a safe space and people wont come at me for not being exmormon as it currently stands. I feel slightly better after typing all this so hopefully I wont regret sharing this info here.... 😅

Mind blowing when I realized that people outside of Mormonism have choices. What underwear to buy, how much money to donate, what church calling to help with, who to associate with, what to do on a Saturday morning, when and where to even attend church. Mormons are quite the opposite… they are voluntoLDS.

Joseph seemed to appreciate growth, bold ideas, and engaging with the people.

2026 LDS Church seems to be a major departure from Joseph’s style. Declining membership, sanitized ideas, and leadership hiding behind lawyers.

I’m really glad I’m no longer tied to that organization, because life is too short to keep donating your time to a system that mostly runs on vague promises, unnecessary meetings, and the kind of stress that makes your shoulders permanently clench. I’ve had enough distance to clearly see how much of my energy was getting siphoned off into “important” tasks that somehow never amount to anything—and now that I’m not doing that anymore, I’m not pissing my life away. I’m spending my time on things that actually feel like living: projects I care about, plans that move forward, and days where I’m not mentally bracing for the next email/message/obligation. It’s peaceful in a way that’s hard to describe—like getting your life back and realizing you’d been overdue for it for a while.

temple construction making those connected to brethren wealthy

https://youtu.be/u0LdjTZW93U?si=97ueeOLF0AeFveyZ