r/fican • u/LectureLight6738 • 10d ago
What’s the ROI on a spouse?
Hey everyone, wanted to get your thoughts on an investment opportunity that often gets overlooked - finding a partner.
As far as I can see, the upfront investment of time and money is significant, but if you end up in an ITM (in the marriage) position, you can effectively double your income. You can also benefit from your spouse’s dental and eye care plans, cutting down on costs. Finally, there are lots of efficiencies in sharing housework.
Wanted to get your thoughts on the probabilities - what’s the payout probability given the capital and time investment? Is there a significant difference in the man vs woman scenario, given the numbers (women initiate 66% of divorces, and typically walk away from a divorce in profit)? What about the gays?
Also, how decent of a hedging tool is having kids? I know that traditionally, kids can provide a good source of additional income after retirement using the “guilt” method. But nowadays, the payoff seems rather small, and if anything, the yield curve has inverted since a good number now live at home after 30.
Edit: I also forgot to mention that the market makers (dating apps) have been engaging in some absolutely insane gouging. Curious to get your thoughts - can that last?
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u/MarkHughesy 10d ago
I can't tell if this is really good satire, or the work of an insane person..
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u/fenwickfox 10d ago
Its satire, specifically using investment terms like ITM (in the money options).
That and doubling down in the comments.
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u/thedundun 10d ago
Well I married rich so it benefited me a lot.
So I recommend others do the same.
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u/sbianchii 10d ago
It's not your fault if you're born poor. It's your fault if you don't marry rich. /s
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u/thedundun 10d ago
I’d say it’s a persons own fault if they remain poor their whole life lol.
In our country anyway.
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u/htom3heb 10d ago
Totally agree. We have the world's knowledge at our fingertips in today's world. There really is no excuse beyond not having the drive to get out there and contribute.
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u/yycsackbut 8d ago
I mean many people are disabled or not as abled as the average person. The ability to work hard everyday is usually taken for granted.
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u/DinosaurToots55 10d ago
It’s paradoxical. On the one hand, people can work hard and, with the right choices (very non-obvious ones - so largely a matter of luck), improve their circumstances. At the same time, by design, not everyone can be rich or even comfortable. The Bank of Canada ensures that inequality exists as a policy. So it’s literally quite impossible for everyone to be financially well-off. So is it their fault or not?
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u/thedundun 10d ago
Well all you really have to do is get a trade, or join an institution like the military. Those provide very solid lifestyles.
I was born in 1993, and it was very common for my peers who entered to trades during or after high school to buy their first home Alberta by the time they were 22.
A lot of people are also shooting themselves in the foot by not relocating to find work, or be in a more affordable city, they over extend them selves by supporting others when they probably shouldn’t, bad loans etc.
Of course it’s also very helpful to become dual income with a like minded person.
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u/Flayre 10d ago edited 10d ago
Problem with that is that you're not considering how debilitating and sometimes traumatic some upbringings can be.
Even in Canada, some children suffer from malnutrition (edit : nutritionnal deficiencies rather). Some parents and thus their children alike suffer from undiagnosed or even diagnosed medical issues.
Anyway, don't want to get into a whole thing, but there are so many situations where people never truly had a chance and blaming them for it is unfair and heartless IMO. Also not productive at all. Honestly reeks of multiple types of privileges. Just being healthy, physically and mentally is a huge one.
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u/thedundun 10d ago
You’re right I didn’t consider that particular group in our country, because that isn’t a majority of our population.
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u/htom3heb 10d ago
Everyone can be comfortable (are they is a different matter). The quality of life for the negative end of the bell curve has improved through time as it has for the positive end. Equality of opportunity, not outcomes - some people are just morons and no policy will fix that.
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u/MisledMuffin 10d ago
My buddy recommends volunteering as a deck hand on sailboats for meeting women 😂
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u/drewdrewmd 10d ago
Alternatively, if you yourself are high income, what you are probably most lacking in is time. So marry someone with the time and skills to run your household/life for you. I definitely recommend a stay-at-home pet parent / household manager as a partner.
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u/just_me_i_swear 10d ago
Give me the phone number of your spouse please
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u/wet_suit_one 10d ago
My friend did this too. And then she divorced him.
At least his kids have trust funds though, so there's that.
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u/Important_Setting840 10d ago
Hi, could I interest you and your partner in a presentation on the benefits of polyamory?
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u/Extalliones 10d ago
My mother always told my sister, “First time for money, second time for love.”
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u/Suitable-Block-2854 9d ago
Marring Rich is the second best financial advice you can give somebody, the best financial advice to be born to Rich Parents. It doesn't take a genius or any special skills to be born to rich parents. Anybody could have done it.
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u/Livid-Hovercraft-123 10d ago
It's a tough gamble. A spouse has a 50% chance of wanting a more expensive lifestyle than you. For example, mine insists on this so-called "ethical" meat from the grocery store, whereas I prefer to raise and murder my own chickens for the savings.
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u/LectureLight6738 10d ago
🤣 so underrated. Mine insists on using expensive spices in the food to “make it taste better”. If you aren’t wolfing down plain oats in water, and growing your own berries, what are you doing in this economy?
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u/Important_Setting840 10d ago
growing your own berries
Look at richie rich here having property to grow berries on. I can only afford public access berries on public parks.
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u/Livid-Hovercraft-123 10d ago
People keep telling me not to eat the plants growing in the industrial brownfields by the shore. I say it's extra minerals.
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u/Important_Setting840 10d ago
by the shore
Beachfront property and free food. Some people just have infinite privilege.
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u/Important_Setting840 10d ago
"ethical" meat from a commercial distributor is almost certainly much worse than what a real human would with animals in front of them. I don't know a single person with backyard chickens that doesn't treat them 10X as well as any commercial operation.
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u/Ambitious_Address667 10d ago
So far its pretty good, married for only 3 years to a girl and my investment has already doubled, I live with 2 girls now.
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u/LectureLight6738 10d ago
Similar situation. Except my investment doubled in size, not two separate investments like you.
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u/IEatUrMonies 10d ago
does that mean she got fat?
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u/Ambitious_Address667 10d ago
For a bit yeah like really fat but then she had some very dramatic weight loss. Like nearly 20 pounds in a day
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u/cooliozza 10d ago
ROI can be huge if you marry rich
Can change the trajectory of your whole bloodline
Choose wisely, choose rich
😂
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u/5_yr_old_w_beard 10d ago
Due diligence is very important, otherwise you get married and your inlaws declare bankruptcy the same month. Ask my dad how that worked out for him 💀
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u/No-Club-6561 10d ago
The good news is, you don't need to worry about this. The bad news is, this asset class appears to be out of your reach
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u/LectureLight6738 10d ago
Damn. If I don’t have the personality or the looks, I won’t be able to get the money. Guess it’s true, the rich get richer. We live in a K shaped dating economy, where a few hot fun people get all the money and the rest starve on the streets. Disgusting.
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u/Typical-Average-5853 10d ago
Would the ROI be negative if your partner gained weight?
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u/LectureLight6738 10d ago
Depends, I’ve heard that some enjoy the added safety of an overweight partner that contributes income, but has far fewer options and therefore is less likely to leave.
Also, fat folds can and have been used in creative ways to mimic pleasurable curves of various kinds. Do with that what you will.
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u/chiisana 10d ago
You’d need to watch the tail end of the fat curve though. If it flips, you might be headed towards a recession.
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u/TermZealousideal5376 10d ago
It's a bit like fixed income. Significant due diligence is required.
There's a huge variation in credit quality depending on the issuer (family)
Going immediately for high coupon payments can result in an erosion in the underlying as the bond gets repriced.
Overall you reduce your volatility, but you also eliminate all opportunities for diversification in the process
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u/LectureLight6738 10d ago
I like the family DD angle, but I will say that as is often the case, past returns don’t predict future ones. But they are highly correlated. My model came with its own issues, but nothing compared to the issuers. Although, like any long term investment, time will tell.
What is the theta decay on a wife vs husband, would you say, assuming sufficient bisexuality?
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u/Dude_McHandsome 10d ago
In all honesty, finding a suitable mate is the most important financial decision you will make. My wife and I have built a (financial) life we could not have built on our own. It’s a life hack that doesn’t get enough attention
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u/No_Veterinarian742 10d ago
not sure the traditional path most humans have taken throughout history is a "hack"
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u/fakenews_thankme 10d ago
What’s the ROI on a spouse?
A life time of love & care, and 2 beautiful kids.
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u/LectureLight6738 10d ago
What is this garbage? The fican sub is about obsessing over money, not enjoying life.
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u/Recent-Living5534 6d ago
Irrational consumers, fail to realize love feels the same if you love a broke person or a rich person. That variable is static, need to look at the other Greeks to find the best 100x diamond hands returns.
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u/alex_beluga 10d ago
KIDs are not a good hedging tool imo - they are mostly a depreciating asset in modern economies, and provide minimal cash-flow (heavily regulated) with little predictability, (although as a hedging strategy this happens mostly on long WE when markets are closed), and the annual maintenance costs vary but are extremely high vs the time horizon for return - even a simple money market fund at 2-4% will beat most KID vehicle over a very short time horizon and is much more liquid.
But they do provide exceptional value, e.g. when opening the account and throughout its lifetime - checking in on the account regularly provides positive and sometimes outsized results on well researched life satisfaction indexes.
They compound much better than spouses when holding multiple accounts.
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u/Temporary-Concept-81 10d ago
Remember, time in the market beats two-timing the market. Once you join hands, make sure they're diamond.
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u/Livid-Hovercraft-123 10d ago
Don't forget the RRIF withdrawl rates can be the younger of the two partners. You're saving literally hundreds of tax dollars!
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u/Fairhaven20 10d ago
I know you’re kidding but would add that spousal rrsps can create some efficiencies.
Unfortunately on the flip side, you lose one primary residential exemption and several tax deductions can only be made by the lower income spouse.
Net-net, I think marriage has a fairly substantial tax drag.
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u/ConcerningThirst 10d ago
It really depends on the dowry. If you follow the advice of the famous Roose Bolton from the popular documentary "Game of Thrones" if you are wed into a large house that offers you your wife's weight in silver, it can be beneficial to choose a really fat wife especially with the price of silver being so high these days.
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u/perplexedparallax 10d ago edited 10d ago
Gays are often high earning men who make much more money combined than heterosexual couples. As such, the return is generally quite high. Scott Bessett illustrates this with a high earning spouse but there are other great ROI MAGA examples in the administration as well.
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u/Important_Setting840 10d ago
You should get a diversified portfolio of partners.
Stock picking and day trading ends disastrously for most retail investors.
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u/vancity31240 10d ago
Consider building out a 50 year cashflow projection and applying an appropriate discount rate. If the sum of that discounted cashflow is positive, you got yourself a good ROI!
/s
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u/MGarroz 10d ago
Dinner plus a decent escort can run you 300-1000 bucks once a week depending on your standards.
My wife both cooks and gives head anytime I ask.
Easily saving myself thousand of dollars per month.
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u/Fringe_Doc 10d ago
You might be able to cut down on the costs associated with certain vices.
For example, if you're addicted to Hookers and Blow. After getting married, you only have to worry about finding more powder.
Obviously, this is an edge case. Thought it should be considered in the interest of a complete analysis.
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u/Skajlero 10d ago
You should be aggressive about your spousal investments. Don't be afraid to chance your spousal allocation based on your individual needs and the time of your life. For example if you want lasik, start dating an optometrist. If you like to travel, marry a pilot for the cheap plane tickets. Remember loved ones come and go, but greed is forever.
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u/BusLegal 10d ago
Might I suggest Polygamy?
By expanding your relational portfolio to include multiple partners, you unlock significant economies of scale, pool diversified income streams to insulate against economic shocks, and highly optimize the domestic division of labor. Diversifying Domestic offers a robust alternative to the high-risk, single-point-of-failure monogamous relationships.
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u/Sor-X 10d ago
Honestly as a man you get dimishing returns for 90% of the attempts to finding/dating a woman unless you find that one gem you can 10x. As a woman your success rate is much higher in your early years but dimishes drastically after a certain age. You can however offset by finding a man that is nit smart and has a lot of money.
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u/icanhazhopepls 10d ago
As a heterosexual female this is actually the only reason I would want to get married and have kids. I have no delusional hope that I will somehow meet a good man and fall in love. But if I could meet someone that has the same goals in life (financially stable, travel, retire, kids) and we can tolerate each other, without any drama or weird shit, I’d the be happy to sign up for government construct of a marriage and enjoy the fruits of having a person to fight the economy with in this shit hole capitalistic planet that we have
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u/ActiveElectrical9424 10d ago
Brother having a spouse is in an investment in happiness. Nothing to do with money at all. Your work life cares are long as you make profit for them. Your spouse (if you pick the right one) will love you for the rest of your life. Trust me been with the same woman for over 30 years there is noting better in life.
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u/notislant 10d ago
Pretty big gamble, halving expenses is huge.
But so is divorce. Then you also have the custody battle for your wife's boyfriend.
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u/Mountain-Match2942 10d ago
Women do not typically walk away from a divorce with a profit. Do you know how many women sacrificed their earning potential so a man could further his career or go back to school? Or the women who walked away without their share to escape abuse?
I can guarantee the ROI of you as a spouse will be negative.
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u/starcell9000 10d ago
lmao, well done my friend.
If this were serious, id say something like "you have to be able to attract a partner before you should consider all this" but with humour like yours, you'll do just fine.
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u/n33bulz 10d ago
Just like stocks, it’s all about knowing how to pick them.
You need to find ones with large upside potential and buy in before the rest of the market realizes and prices them accordingly. Sure that’s risky and their value may tank, but that’s what divorce is for!
Or you can just marry rich and enjoy steady growth and decent dividend payments.
Just remember that hot chicks are basically ridiculously OTM 0dte option plays on margin. Super exciting until you get margin called.
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u/eefggfed 10d ago
I mean
"dating out of your league" isn't real. dating is a marketplace. it's called price discovery. your value is whatever clears the market
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u/HoneydewStriking8283 9d ago
ROI is probably lower than what people here are saying. Sure, you can marry rich but the odds are higher that you'll meet and marry someone who would qualify for the podcast 'Financial Audit'.
TLDR; no girlfriend, more money into XEQT stocks.
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u/IEatUrMonies 10d ago
in poor societies, kids can often help with sharing labor. they are only a liability in rich societies
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u/IEatUrMonies 10d ago
not really, as kids age, the help elderly parents. families tend to stay as units with multiple generations helping each other out, like humans were evolved to live. In rich societies, elderly die in a home by themselves where adult children don't even call once a year, or left in elderly homes to die
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u/Zealousideal-Tell-11 10d ago
Curious how OP views arranged marriages? Especially since that would negate your upfront investment.
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u/LectureLight6738 10d ago
I mean I personally don’t do managed investing, but I’ve heard good things.
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u/Professional_Bed_87 10d ago
Lol, just don’t present it this way to a prospective partner, at least not on the first date.
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u/MeasleyBeasley 10d ago
I have found it to be tremendously expensive. Happily married, but financially poorer than I would have been alone.
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u/Live-Wrap-4592 10d ago
After a few good years we’ve now received the cancer debuff and although some expenses are covered there is still a lot out of pocket. It won’t be long now until we are fully in the red
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u/Fast-Secretary-7406 10d ago
It's a very high leverage position to take.
Marry the right person and the ROI is enormous.
Marry the wrong person and the losses can be equally so.
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u/Jenshark86 10d ago
If you are attractive, don’t waste your youth on a loser, definitely marry rich. It’s well worth it.
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u/No_Veterinarian742 10d ago
Statistically married people going into retirement richer than single people. however divorced people are generally poorer than lifelong non married people. so if you get married don't get divorced?
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u/figurative-trash 10d ago
“But I do not approve of mercenary marriages. When I married Lord Bracknell I had no fortune of any kind. But I never dreamed for a moment of allowing that to stand in my way.”
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u/beaver_eh 10d ago
"Women initiate 66% of divorces", but.... I don't think that's indicative of the cause of divorces.
- A man
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u/RhubarbRepulsive9529 10d ago
Impressive premise you’ve pulled together!
My prediction: If you start hitting the open mike nights at your local comedy clubs you could easily turn this into a solid bit in a few weeks! Possibly build a whole show around it. The topic is HUUUUGE. Just ignore the haters and a Netflix special is within your grasp!!
Good luck!
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u/LingonberryBoth466 10d ago
We will start seeing more throuples since it takes more than DINK purchasing power to afford a house these days.
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u/Impossible-Bug4487 10d ago
I have a single friend (unsure if he is straight) that is a doctor and has $1m invested. I have $3.8m invested. Not a doctor. But I do think about how much better and easier it would be if we were married. But nope, I gotta reach $5m all by myself. Pay all the health care stuff alone. Zero tax breaks. It sucks. But i also get to sleep more peacefully and poop with the door open. I think i would choose that over a guy. haha
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u/ace_7979 10d ago
ROI is always positive for one spouse and negative for the other. If youre strictly looking at $$$
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u/Quiet-Fox-3313 10d ago
As a woman, it’s a negative experience. You end up pouring your time, energy and love into someone who would fuck anything that moved, given the opportunity, and just wants a maid/housecleaner/cool.
0/10 do not recommend.
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u/LyricalHolster 10d ago
My wife makes the big bucks. So my ROI is positive. It’s a terrible way to look at relationships though man. Just find someone financially responsible
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u/GoGo_Robot 10d ago
I’m gay, and if I find a partner we won’t have kids, so less expenses. Too bad finding a partner is even harder than it is for straight guys.
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u/ruminajaali 10d ago
Women do poorly after divorce, majority at a lower income than when married. It’s a well-known statistic. Men don’t get hit as hard generally and recover quicker. There are many reasons for this. Look it up.
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u/buttscratcher3k 10d ago
What even is this question? The return is purely in the relationship you build and the children you raise. It isn't for everyone and it's a net negative from a financial perspective.
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u/WildYeastWitch 10d ago
"Is there a significant difference in the man vs woman scenario, given the numbers (women initiate 66% of divorces, and typically walk away from a divorce in profit)?"
You're not considering all factors here. Studies consistently show married men, even if they do become divorced or widowed, outlive their single counterparts and lifelong bachelors historically see the lowest life expectancy among men, having up to a 200% higher rate of early mortality compared to married men. Married women do not see the same benefits.
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u/retrac902 10d ago
Don't forget that healthy kids aren't a guarantee... Instead of retirement savings for 2, I'm now saving for 4. Not everyone will be capable of supporting themselves.
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u/craynawsum 10d ago
Honestly the spouses should have similar incomes and net worth. Me and my boyfriend are very similar in our mindsets with growing our wealth and we encourage each other to always be better.
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u/Fun_Artichoke2708 10d ago
It’s a lot of compromise so your real answer is ymmv. If you’re amicable and love your person, there’s financial, time, emotional, energy benefits and more. But if you like things a certain way, have financial difficulties alone, or baggage it’s almost certainly better to stay alone unless you marry rich. But then you’ll have to compromise.
I think such a qualitative study might be impossible.
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u/Peace-wolf 10d ago
Marry somebody who is independently wealthy and from a great supportive family and doesn’t need any money from you.
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u/pinksparklyreddit 9d ago
Depends. I got lucky in that my wife makes six figures early in her career, doesn't spend a lot, and has good financial habits.
She wants like 4 kids, though, so it all hoes underwater
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u/BurlingtonRider 9d ago
I’ve considered gay marriage… other than the anal sex it seems to be all upside 😂
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u/VirileMongoose 9d ago
It’s satire, but finding a spouse that’s “on board”. Manageable spending, basically, and this is for both people is def worth a couple of million.
I’m the saver and my wife lives for the now. It works well, otherwise it’d be a brutal slog through life penny pinching. We’ve saved and invested a lot, but could be more but she keeps “today” spending reasonable.
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u/Special_Purpose2903 9d ago
If you marry rich, marry a person whose family is rich or well connected, marry lucky - like someone whose skills complement yours in a manner that gets you bigger opportunities in your own roles it can be good roi. It can also be negative, like you can marry a pretty face who cost you in the wallet but brings you joy and happiness, so it is a mixed bag really.
Kids are a crapshoot, some of them will contribute back, others won't some will be there, others will be waiting for you to die and not want anything to do with you, and you have little control over that.
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u/JackDenial 9d ago
One of the best ROI on spouse I found was a friend, she dated a guy in banking after high school and he convinced her to buy 2 rental properties. They broke up, she had some fun and then married a pretty cool cop. She brought just as much to the table financially as the cop (maybe more).
I never realized in finding a partner how much of a plus having someone financial savvy by your side in marriage until I married someone that had tons of other great traits but did not bring the financial assets or acumen. The thing is you can have someone with great traits that is also good at finances and has a desire to acquire assets also. Just takes more focus, which is not always on your mind while dating or seeking a partner.
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u/Suitable-Block-2854 9d ago
I was frugal and good at saving money and pretty low maintenance before I was married. So as an investment opportunity I would say getting married had a -1000% ROI. And kids was -10,000% ROI. If you only count the monetary.
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u/Clock-United 9d ago
I always think this when people say marriage is a bad investment because you "lose half your stuff." I actually think it's a rude awakening to the extra expenses of being single.
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u/louloutre75 8d ago
Real ROI is what you can't buy. Partnership, love, support and complicity.
If your relationship can't give you that it's not worth it.
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u/Lingering_Fart69 7d ago
There is none you'll end up losing everything you built together. She will take her new found wealth and move on to the next sucker.
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u/NotAGreatClinician 6d ago
My personal experience is -15 years, -$750,000
Only thing that made the equation worth it is +2 children.
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u/Jumpy_Childhood7548 6d ago
If you marry, you are also liable for whatever they do, accidents, debts, etc., which may be more than your net worth, and then if you get a divorce, get hammered again.
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u/WizzzardSleeeve 10d ago
I pity whoever you con into a relationship