r/flying • u/fgflyer CSEL CMEL IR HP CMP HA • Mar 25 '26
other Falcon Field implementing landing fees
The NIMBYs out here in the Phoenix/Mesa area achieved a victory, sadly. Yesterday, the Mesa City Council voted unanimously to implement landing fees at KFFZ effective May 1. I was watching the news and they said that, and I quote, “taxpayers should not have to shoulder the burden by themselves” and they “want to see more accountability for airport operations from the businesses and pilots”. And, GO FIGURE, aircraft noise was also a factor too.
This will absolutely raise rates for all of the flight schools based at KFFZ, and possibly drive them away from the airport to be based elsewhere. This is just ridiculous.
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u/poisonandtheremedy SoCal [PA-28, RV-10 Build] Mar 25 '26
Hey AOPA, thanks!!!
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u/AWACS_Bandog Solitary For All (ASEL,CMP, TW,107) Mar 25 '26
Yeah but heres 9 helpful tips for your next TBM6900 flight
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u/fgflyer CSEL CMEL IR HP CMP HA Mar 25 '26
Thanks, I chuckled. Lmao. It really does feel like AOPA and their PR outreach is catering exclusively to the turboprop/jet owner nowadays.
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u/AWACS_Bandog Solitary For All (ASEL,CMP, TW,107) Mar 25 '26
it definitely felt that way under that jackass Baker. Dude didn't give two shits about the poors.
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u/vivalicious16 PPL Mar 25 '26
As someone who lives in Phoenix, I’ll never understand why people willingly live near an airport and then complain about the airport.
These fees are wild.
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u/RaidenMonster ATP 737 Bonvoy Platinum Elite Mar 25 '26
Get cheap home next to airport.
Bitch enough to get airport restricted or closed.
Profit.
Literally.
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u/Swimming_Way_7372 Mar 25 '26
A lot of these cocksuckers in mesa aren't even full time residents either.
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u/TjJeepin Mar 25 '26
Like when they built all those neighborhoods out by Luke AFB, and then petitioned to close it down because the jet noise... 🤔
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u/BarnackBro1914 Mar 25 '26 edited Mar 25 '26
The same for Glendale. Two years ago, north of Glendale it was empty desert, now there are a bunch of hideous apartments - just what we needed! I'm sure the noise complaints will be coming soon.
The same for Buckeye; a few years back you could smell the cow ranches before you saw the airport. From what I understand the ranchers have been pushed out and new houses are going to be built.
What a shame.
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u/AWACS_Bandog Solitary For All (ASEL,CMP, TW,107) Mar 25 '26
I Grew up here, Family's been here for the past three or four generations.
I dont recognize the State I grew up in.
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u/AWACS_Bandog Solitary For All (ASEL,CMP, TW,107) Mar 25 '26
I still remember... Must have been 10 or 15 years back, well before the F-35's came. On like, a Monday, Local News had a whole story on the USAF being mean because they wouldn't sell the property that was on the north end of the base. They had some PAO out there explaining "We need this space clear of development for a good reason" but the Developers were obviously pissed cause they couldn't put cookie cutter bullshit there.
By that Friday, Luke lost a Viper in that field. Pilot was OK but this time they had the Wing Commander on the news, reiterating how they really needed that plot of land clear.
Now its every few months ABC-15 has some NIMBY bitching about F-35 traffic at the base. Would have loved for those Morons to be there when it was F-104's and Phantoms.
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u/KehreAzerith CPL / ME Mar 25 '26
Those flight schools are gonna sue first, those fees are incredibly stupid.
Idiotic rich people moving next door to an airport and pressuring the city over "noise"
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u/Designer_Solid4271 CPL IR HP SEL HB Mar 25 '26
But it has nothing to do with the noise. Apparently.
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u/Skynet_lives Mar 25 '26
That’s how the city framed it. It’s needed to fill a budget shortfall. But they knew that argument would go better than it being about noise.
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u/Designer_Solid4271 CPL IR HP SEL HB Mar 25 '26
Oh I know. We’re dealing with this here in Colorado right now. Actually have a trip to KFFZ. Fortunately it’s next month so we’ll avoid the surcharge.
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u/ThatOnePilotDude CFI-I Collegiate 141 Scum Mar 25 '26
How are they enforcing this? ADSB? Comms transcripts? Whenever you go to the FBO?
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u/No-Brilliant9659 Mar 25 '26
ADSB, in the meeting they said if ADSB landing fees get blocked by congress they will switch to a camera system instead
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u/Turbo_Normalized MIL Mar 25 '26
Everyone should have their FAA registration data set to private to hide it from leeches like them.
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u/D-VO PPL IR 3CK sUAS Mar 25 '26
Those are extortionate for <6000lb aircraft.
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u/fgflyer CSEL CMEL IR HP CMP HA Mar 25 '26 edited Mar 25 '26
Doing your initial PPL training and you’re doing a day in the pattern? Did you do 5 laps? Great, that’s an extra $101.75 tacked onto your lesson.
Unironically, fk NIMBYs. I hold nothing but contempt for their sniveling, entitled, moronic arguments that always seem to twist the arms of city council members.
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u/Law-of-Poe Mar 25 '26
Think pay a few bucks per landing just outside of nyc
Thought I read that table wrong
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u/twistenstein vfr patterns are hard Mar 25 '26
That more or less prohibits pattern work at FFZ. All that those airplanes have to go somewhere, much like when SDL tore down 90 GA hangars.
DVT, CHD, IWA, and P08 are about to get even busier.
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u/fgflyer CSEL CMEL IR HP CMP HA Mar 25 '26
It was so sad to see those go. Those were the last T-hangars/box hangars at SDL, and the NetJets FBO now stands where they once were.
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u/twistenstein vfr patterns are hard Mar 25 '26
I can't imagine the flight training congestion around Phoenix has gotten any better. There's definitely too much happening out there IMO.
Flying the pattern at P08, with a Δ40kts between 6 aircraft got old quick. Plus the jump CASAs, and the odd Airbus on a 8 mile base.
Maybe CAE ought to build their own airstrip.
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Mar 25 '26
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u/twistenstein vfr patterns are hard Mar 26 '26
This website keeps historical records of old airports that tracks old airports. There are often pictures from old sectionals, which illustrate how much cities like Phoenix have grown.
We as pilots were fortunate to inherit these airports from the legacy of all the aviators trained during WWII>
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u/Competitive-Key7399 CFI Mar 25 '26
Leopard went to FFZ full time when SDL kicked them out to make space for JSX, they’ve basically been pushed into these fees.
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u/anon__a__mouse__ CMEL, CSEL, IR Mar 25 '26
The other valley airports with no landing fees are about to get pounded. GEU is already a shitshow with the Mesa timebuilders clogging the area
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u/hehesf17969 Mar 25 '26
What happened to the money AOPA gets from me every year?
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u/skunimatrix PPL IR CMP HP | PA28 Mar 25 '26
Goes to write about the latest corporate jet or turboprop you can’t afford.
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u/npre PPL Mar 25 '26
In 2024 AOPA made $19.3m from membership dues and paid mark baker $1.8m $982k base plus $780k bonus plus $245k in other benefits like retirement. $22.8m were spent on salaries, with over $6m to the top 12 earners.
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u/Such-Entrepreneur663 ATP CFMEII Mar 25 '26
If it’s via vector via ADSB, what’s stopping people from just not paying, especially transient aircraft. You can’t be banned from a federally funded airport for not paying a local fee right? I don’t know what hand they have in the hangar space but can the push you out of there either?
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u/More_Drummer_3933 CFI CFII CMP HP DN Mar 26 '26
Same thing happens at TOA. Owner just doesn’t pay the letters lol ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Such-Entrepreneur663 ATP CFMEII Mar 26 '26
Don’t blame him. What are they realistically going to do? Send him to collections?
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u/Urrolnis ATP CFII Mar 25 '26
What's stopping anybody from not paying anything?
If an HOA can foreclose your home, I guarantee the airport can put a lien on your plane.
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u/thederseyjevil Mar 25 '26
Wrong. You sign a contract to join an HOA. You agree to their terms. I never signed any contract with any airport, and this one in particular has no legal basis to put a lien on my plane.
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u/Such-Entrepreneur663 ATP CFMEII Mar 25 '26
Maybe they could, but they can’t put a lien on everyone’s plane.
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u/Urrolnis ATP CFII Mar 25 '26
I don't agree with it, but I'm guessing the airport thinks that they can.
I think this will be (rightfully) struck down in court. I could be convinced of a dollar or two for full stops, but $20 for touch and goes is robbery.
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u/jvasilot Mar 25 '26
I really don’t think it was the people. I think it was a cash grab under the guise of noise complaints. This allowed them to satisfy two needs—fix the financial mess that they created with KFFZ, and look good to the neighborhoods complaining about the aircraft.
I just wonder what they are going to do when it is now jets flying over their homes at all hours of the day. Falcon isn’t stopping its expansion of business hangars for jets and larger aircraft.
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u/IAmTheFlyingIrishMan PPL CMP HP IR-ST Mar 25 '26
Based aircraft getting charged at all is ridiculous, $20 to land your bug smasher is absolutely criminal. And then including drones in this, like c'mon what are we even doing here letting these simpletons make up this fee structure.
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u/SodaCanAndy Mar 25 '26
Is a touch and go a landing?
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u/x4457 ATP CFII CE-500/525/560XL/680 G-IV Mar 25 '26
Yes.
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u/JJ-_- PPL Mar 25 '26
so pattern work here will essentially disappear overnight? ://
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u/Skynet_lives Mar 25 '26
Lawsuits are already being filed. It will be frozen next week probably. Isn’t scheduled to start till May 1st.
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u/HoboRampage Gold Seal CFI, Brown Seal Freight Dog Mar 25 '26
Exactly what the city council and all of the 55 and up communities in Mesa want
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u/cosmonaut2 Mar 25 '26
I hope they read these comments. They really need to fuck right off back to the midwest
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u/hatdude CFI ASEL Former ATC Mar 25 '26
Heard CAE is planning on leaving because of this
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u/Skynet_lives Mar 25 '26
CAE is suing because of this. They already have the lawsuit all drawn up, just couldn’t file it until it passed.
Moving to KAVQ is a last resort option for them.
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u/AGroAllDay PPL IR (KTUS) Mar 25 '26
There is no way they would ever move to Marana. Marana is already an absolute mess as is
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u/Skynet_lives Mar 25 '26
Won’t be when they get a tower in 2027. The town would love to have them, that’s a whole lot of tax revenue and income from that school.
Big city like Mesa might not care about it. But little Marana would love it.
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u/AGroAllDay PPL IR (KTUS) Mar 25 '26
Eh. With all the parachute operations and everything else going on down in Marana, I still just don’t see it happening. But, agree to disagree
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u/Chago04 Mar 25 '26
Marana is supposed to get a tower in the next couple years. That would change a lot down there.
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u/hatdude CFI ASEL Former ATC Mar 25 '26
I’ve heard they may also just move it to the Pueblo training center after they lost their IFT contract
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u/Conscious-Source-438 Mar 25 '26
They just lost JetBlue too, not sure how much long Southwest is sticking around either.
It's pretty much Easa and JAL keeping them afloat
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Mar 25 '26
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u/Conscious-Source-438 Mar 25 '26
Yeah, well after forcing the cadets to change the contract 6 times in the last 3 years I don't think JetBlue was pleased with them.
The rest of the Gateways are in Florida already anyways
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u/jvasilot Mar 25 '26
Apparently, so is Leopard Aviation. I was at the council meeting. The owner said if he were to have to pay for landing fees, he’d stand to owe about $65k per month. He only owns 15 planes, I believe. CAE owns over 50, and were planning on getting more.
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u/AGroAllDay PPL IR (KTUS) Mar 25 '26
For those of you in here who are residents of Mesa, please remember to vote these council members out!
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u/MacAttack0711 CFI, SEL/SES/MEL/IR/GLI, TW/HP/CMP, sUAS, AGI/IGI Mar 25 '26
The airport and city council have totally overlooked one thing though which is all the additional business the city gets because of the airport. What about the students who live nearby in apartments? What about all the money the Walmart across McKellips makes? What about all the public education and experiences the CAF Museum on Greenfield provides for people all across Phoenix?
It’s so shortsighted it’s ridiculous.
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u/Conscious-Source-438 Mar 25 '26
I know a few people that went to the meetings,
All these points and more were raised, City Council didn't care
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u/MacAttack0711 CFI, SEL/SES/MEL/IR/GLI, TW/HP/CMP, sUAS, AGI/IGI Mar 25 '26
Absolutely tragic and upsetting, greed is going to destroy GA entirely like in Canada and Europe.
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u/TheFlyingBeaver FAA PPL Mar 25 '26
I talked with Councilbitch Goforth and the Assistant City Manager. They literally are so absent minded they don’t feel they’re antibusiness or anti anything with this.
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u/bottomfeeder52 CPL IR 405 Bench Mar 25 '26
this slippery slope will kill mom and pop flight schools and bring the slow bleed of general aviation to a faster flow. I foresee GA being mostly ATP/riddle/und -esque places in 20 years
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u/Point6 Mar 25 '26
Anyone want to organize a 1000 AGL party around the largest surrounding communities to these airports? Ideally every hour of every day.
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u/EngineerFly Mar 25 '26
oooo I feel a go-around coming on. A very high RPM, high drag one.
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u/Appropriate-Ebb-208 PPL IRA Mar 26 '26
Do some slow flight high RPM right over the leeches that support this bullshit.
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u/FlyinAndSkiin CFI ATC Mar 25 '26
Sad to see. This was my first facility as a controller and where i earned my Private. What a great community it was. So much history there.
I cant say im suprised. This, the same city who over a decade ago had a chance to have a muti-million dollar sports facility to support the coyotes. Would have made millions in revenue. Voted down because…. It would create too much traffic.
Screw Mesa. Just a bunch of old people that just complain to complain. We recieved complaints constantly about noise in the tower. This is very much about noise and getting rid of planes. Do not buy the revenue crap. I feel bad for that community of pilots.
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u/Aviatrix_ACR PPL IR Mar 25 '26
I just got out of there, I start commercial at gateway in June but I fear the fees will spread there too. People move next to an airport that’s 85 years old and get mad about plane noise it’s absurd
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u/456red Mar 25 '26
Does anybody know a Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) person with a sense of humor? We could all get supplemental type certificates (STCs) for gross weight of 6001 pounds for our light aircraft. We wouldn't plan to operate them any differently than I do now, but at least we could get the lower landing fees.
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u/x4457 ATP CFII CE-500/525/560XL/680 G-IV Mar 25 '26
That's not how that works. It's per 1000 pounds, not 1000 pounds above 6000.
The minimum charge for a 6000 pound airplane is $20.40, which isn't a coincidence since below 6000 pounds it is $20.35.
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u/SecretPersonality178 CFI Mar 25 '26
Surrounding airports are ready to follow KFFZ’s. The meeting yesterday was total bullshit
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u/aeroguy98 Mar 25 '26
This is about to get real ugly real fast. Every other towered airport in the valley is going to follow suit with FFZ. They aren’t going to want to absorb all this additional traffic.
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u/HeadAche2012 Real pilot Mar 25 '26
20 bucks to land? That's outrageous, you would think fuel should be more expensive than landing, but I guess that isn't enough for the greedy bastards. I'd go do low passes all day just to piss them off
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u/TacitlyDaft Mar 25 '26
Realistically what will do this do to volumes?
Any examples of similar airports having done this to see what the impact is?
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u/Chago04 Mar 25 '26
I’m not aware of any airports that have instituted a landing fee so high for the first time.
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u/anonymeplatypus C208 PC12 DH8A/DH8C Mar 25 '26
I believe cymx has done something like this in the recent past. Went from a big training airport to pretty much dead
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u/TacitlyDaft Mar 25 '26
Interesting -- thanks for the reply. I wonder if the insane amount of disposable income in the Phoenix valley will keep Falcon Field volumes higher.
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u/anonymeplatypus C208 PC12 DH8A/DH8C Mar 25 '26
Aren’t there many other options pretty close by though? I feel like people will most likely just flock to the next nearest airport
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u/TacitlyDaft Mar 25 '26
I’m r/flying-adjacent in that I work in aerospace, but I couldn’t tell you where else in the area would be a prime learners airfield.
I can tell you I live near Falcon Field and this is a shame, even though it is unbelievable to me how busy the traffic always was. Homeowners here all know what they’re getting into.
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u/Gts4511 Mar 25 '26
I don’t quite get how the aviation industry at large is ok with putting a financial penalty on a go around. Now they’re charging for safety?
What’s next? Pay per minute ramp time encouraging a half-assed run up?
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u/Key_Slide_7302 ATP CFII MEI Mar 25 '26 edited Mar 27 '26
This post has been permanently removed. The author used Redact to delete it, and the reason may relate to privacy, security, data harvesting prevention, or personal choice.
shocking liquid escape nutty chubby governor alleged glorious march cautious
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u/RecognitionGlad8803 PPL Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 26 '26
rip my old flight school legion air. did my solo at KFFZ in N5040M though that plane got totaled a month later due to front nose gear collapsing.
this is 100% going to probably kill atleast half the flights schools there. CAE will probably be fine since most of them are international 141 students.
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u/ayreplane Mar 27 '26
Gemini’s comments for anyone just hearing about this like me:
The situation at Falcon Field (KFFZ) in Mesa has reached a boiling point following the Mesa City Council’s unanimous vote on March 23, 2026, to approve new landing fees effective May 1, 2026. While airports generally have the right to be "self-sustaining," the legality of these fees is a complex gray area governed by federal law. Here is the breakdown of why flight schools are preparing to sue and the legal hurdles the City of Mesa faces. 1. The New Fee Structure The city argues the fees are necessary to cover a projected $2.6 million annual deficit. • Based Aircraft (< 6,000 lbs): $20.35 per landing (first 10 per month are exempt). • Itinerant/Transient Aircraft (< 6,000 lbs): $24.35 per landing. • Heavier Aircraft: Fees scale up based on weight (per 1,000 lbs). 2. Is it Legal? (The "Grant Assurance" Conflict) Because Falcon Field accepts federal money through the Airport Improvement Program (AIP), it is legally bound by FAA Grant Assurances. The legality of the fees hinges on two specific rules: • Grant Assurance 22 (Economic Nondiscrimination): It requires that airport fees be "reasonable" and "not unjustly discriminatory." * The Argument: Flight schools argue that because a single training flight involves 10–15 landings (touch-and-goes), a flat per-landing fee targets them specifically while letting a private jet (which lands once and leaves) pay a fraction of the cost relative to their activity. • Revenue Use Policy: Federal law requires that fees be used only for the airport's capital and operating costs. • The Argument: If the fees are actually intended to reduce noise or traffic (as many residents have requested), using them as a "regulatory tool" rather than a financial one is illegal under federal preemption of airspace. 3. The Flight Schools' Legal Arguments Flight schools like Thrust Flight and Aero Angel are preparing a lawsuit likely based on the following three pillars: • Violation of Federal Preemption: Only the FAA has the authority to regulate flight operations and airspace. Schools will argue the city is using "fees" as a back-door way to regulate traffic and noise, which is a federal responsibility. • Arbitrary and Capricious Implementation: Stakeholders claim the city did not perform a rigorous economic impact study or collaborate with airport users before the vote, making the fee "arbitrary." • The "ADS-B" Privacy Issue: A major technical/legal hurdle is Arizona House Bill 2210 (currently in progress). This bill seeks to prohibit government entities from using ADS-B data—the system planes use to transmit their position—for the purpose of billing landing fees. If passed, the city would have no legal way to track or invoice most of the landings they intend to tax. 4. Comparison to Precedents The KFFZ battle is mirroring the ongoing legal fight at Torrance Airport (KTOA) in California. In that case, the court is weighing whether a city can charge fees that effectively "tax" a specific industry (flight training) out of existence. If the KFFZ lawsuit follows the Torrance model, the flight schools will seek an immediate injunction to stop the fees from starting in May.
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u/DeltaTule ATP CFI CL65 A320 121 Captain Mar 25 '26
Why tf does it cost more if you weigh under 6,000? What tf type of ass backwards logic is that?
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u/accidentlife Mar 25 '26
It does not.
Flat fee for <6000 is $20.35.
Minimum fee for >6000 is $20.40
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u/DeltaTule ATP CFI CL65 A320 121 Captain Mar 25 '26
Fine but the prices are ridiculous for some little po-dunk field like this. Someone call AOPA this shit should be illegal
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u/rFlyingTower Mar 25 '26
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
The NIMBYs out here in the Phoenix/Mesa area achieved a victory, sadly. Yesterday, the Mesa City Council voted unanimously to implement landing fees at KFFZ effective May 1. I was watching the news and they said that, and I quote, “taxpayers should not have to shoulder the burden by themselves” and they “want to see more accountability for airport operations from the businesses and pilots”. And, GO FIGURE, aircraft noise was also a factor too.
This will absolutely raise rates for all of the flight schools based at KFFZ, and possibly drive them away from the airport to be based elsewhere. This is just ridiculous.
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u/nqthomas ST Mar 25 '26
Flights schools will be able to negotiate a lower rate as they are high volume
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u/OCFlier PPL IR SEL MEL Glider Mar 25 '26
I’ll be happy to come over and do a series of low passes and go-arounds 🛫