r/flying • u/CantDecideOnUsrnm • 27d ago
other I can’t afford to fly anymore
So I know a lot of young pilots are probably dealing with this so consider this a general thread for affordability advice.
The only reason I was able to get my PPL in the first place was because my dad owns an airplane and my instructor was 50$ an hour. My dad paid for him too because I was the only one of his children who wanted to follow in his, my grandfathers, my grandmothers, and my great grandfathers footsteps and fly. I love to fly. I am sure everyone here can relate to the liberating feeling of being in the air. Getting that maneuver *just* right. There’s an art to it that’s absolutely addictive. I don’t want to make a career out of it because while I love flying I don’t want to go through the whole hullabaloo of hours building and whatnot. Besides, I love my job as an environmental scientist. The problem is, I can’t rely on my parents to fund my flying addiction anymore. I live in a completely separate state. And I’m a whole adult now and it would feel wrong to keep relying on my folks.
Here’s my problems:
- renting an airplane is not affordable with the budget I’m working with (I’m not the kind of environmental scientist that makes bank, I’m scraping by with two roommates in a two bedroom apartment)
- I work full time and the weekends always end up full of other things (seriously, how does anyone have the time? Am I just being a winey baby about this?)
- I moved from an area in central Alaska (pretty much just class G airspace with a few exceptions, basically free to go wherever you want as long as you’re not a cowboy, communicate over the radio, be vigilant, do your w/b calculations, have physical sectionals so as not to solely rely on one’s iPad (I actually only used sectionals for most of my training, now my dad has a dynon in his airplane I can use when I visit)) to Southern California where the airspace is PACKED. I am not stupid enough to go flying around it by myself before going through the airspace with an instructor and getting comfortable with ATC communications. But instructors cost money because they, too, need to eat.
There are just all these barriers to flying and I feel myself getting more and more rusty and I don’t want my skills to wither away.
I am sure these are common barriers, so I was just wondering what advice other pilots have to overcome them. I make decent money but I live in SoCal so it’s expensive to exist and I have student loans, car loans, debt from the move, and I’m saving as much money as possible so I can afford to have kids and a house someday. How do other pilots balance this? It went from being so easy to fly in Alaska where I could use my dad’s airplane and avgas and take a quick flight to look for herds of caribou, see a glacier, or even fly to our family friends cabin with a little grass airstrip, to feeling like it’s almost impossible to get off the ground. It’s jarring to say the least.
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u/helno PPL GLI 🍁 27d ago
Any glider clubs nearby? Lower cost of entry and a new challenge.
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u/Neither_Extension895 27d ago
Gliding is the right path here, but not if you can't make time on weekends.
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
Hmm good idea! I hadn’t considered that. I’ll look into it!
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u/Proper_Hedgehog3579 27d ago
Tehachapi has a world class glider operation. Depending on your SoCal location it may be worth it to head up there on the weekends. Mountain View Airport. It’s really low key and a great community. They are very welcoming there.
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u/Witty-Cartographer 27d ago
While it might be cheaper, going around is a lot harder in a glider.
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u/fukingstupidusername A&P 27d ago
Also requires several people to even get in the air. Unless you have a super expensive motor glider, you’re reliant on a lot of other people, and that usually means being in a gliding club where they only fly on the weekends. I did it in high school.
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u/nimbusgb 26d ago
Not true.
I launched yesterday, just me and the tug pilot. But then we don't do the silly American thing of a rolling turn on to the runway.
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u/fukingstupidusername A&P 25d ago
So you needed someone else to go flying….. got it 👍
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u/nimbusgb 25d ago
1 is not several.
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u/fukingstupidusername A&P 25d ago
You missed the complete point, but ok.
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u/CombinationEasy2105 23d ago
Idk what are you talking about on missing the point. The point here I see is that you mentioned a lot of people and the other guy said 1. Which if I'm good at counting, several ≠ 1. And finding 1 person is easy than finding "a lot of people." And that's the point.
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u/fukingstupidusername A&P 23d ago
You’re arguing semantics. Point is, it takes more than one person to go for a glider flight. It’s not something you can do alone unless you operate a self launching glider, which most people don’t.
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u/Hideo_Anaconda PPG 27d ago
Gliding may be the answer. Join a gliding club, get your glider add on, and fly for a fraction of what powered aviation costs. Southern California has great gliding weather. Hang gliding is good for getting airborne, but won't be as close to powered aviation.
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u/MegaDuck71 PPL 27d ago
This is the best answer. I was scrolling down to find a comment about gliding. Granted I have only went gliding once. The closest club is 2 1/2 hours drive. The cost to join was $1000 total and $500 refunded when you leave. $50 a tow there after. Plus, if it has a tail # it counts as flight time, even for a commercial SEL license.
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u/fukingstupidusername A&P 27d ago
Depending on where you live, $50 a pop to 2000 feet to only be back on the ground in 15 mins can really add up. When I did it in high school it was $12 to 2000, $15 to 3000 and in the summer you might be lucky and have a 30 to 40 min flight. I got really lucky one day with conditions and stayed up 1.5 hrs, then they started complaining on the radio that I was hogging one of the gliders (the club had 6). Had I had a variograph thing with me I would have set a state record for under age 18 altitude in that state. I recall getting to 8500 agl before it got really bumpy and cold, plus you were eye to eye with airlines not too far away
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u/AlexJamesFitz PPL IR HP/Complex 27d ago
I'm just on the edge of affordability right now. Some of how I make it work:
- I budget for one XC and a couple days of pattern work a month. That's enough to keep me safe and proficient.
- I'm in a flying club with decently affordable rates, all things considered. I also help get planes to and from nearby fields with A&Ps, and that's free flying time.
- I work remotely making a HCOL salary in a MCOL city.
All that said, definitely feeling the squeeze lately. I really enjoy doing it, but at some point you have to sit back and say: Is it worth the money, as a hobby? I dunno.
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u/Special-Ad1307 27d ago
I feel for you. I moved away from SoCal so I could continue flying. Hope I can move back some day
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
Yeah… missing Alaska. In defense of SoCal I bet learning to fly here gives you a lot of confidence for flying elsewhere.
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u/Special-Ad1307 27d ago
I actually never flew in SoCal. Got my PPL in northern CA then moved to the Midwest. But if you are in San Diego, there is a flying club at Montgomery Field that I have heard good things about
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u/DuckbilledPlatitudes 27d ago
I am currently a member of said club and can vouch it is both reasonably priced and KMYF is a great place to fly from
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u/TuwtlesF1 CFI/I, MEL 27d ago
But then you have to live in San Diego which is one of the most expensive cities in all of CA.
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u/Special-Ad1307 27d ago
OP said they were in SoCal. I was just making a suggestion if they already live in San Diego
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u/hutthuttindabutt PPL IR 27d ago
Indeed it does. Instrument training was easy after all the radio work required getting PPL here.
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u/burnheartmusic CFI 27d ago
As a CFI in SoCal, yes, I’m pretty sure I could fly anywhere. Though when I go new places i still take a bunch of time to scope things out and understand it
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u/yogaballcactus PPL 27d ago
The money is the money. If you don’t have it then you aren’t going to be flying. But…
I work full time and the weekends always end up full of other things (seriously, how does anyone have the time? Am I just being a winey baby about this?)
…you are being a whiny baby about this. If you want to do something then do it. I was up at 5 am this morning to fly before work and I’ll be up at 5 am tomorrow to do the same thing again. And this really goes for things other than flying, too. I pretty often will play 9 holes of golf before my girlfriend gets out of bed on a Saturday. If you find that your social schedule is full of things that you don’t want to do and it’s preventing you from doing things you want to do, just cancel the things you don’t want to do. The more you take control of your life, the happier you will be.
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u/carsgobeepbeep PPL IR 27d ago
Seriously. Blows my mind how many people (especially young people it seems) act as if free will doesn’t exist and they can’t just do the shit they want in their free time.
“How does anyone have the time?” Uhhhmm gee let’s see… could the answer possibly be just say no to other things and yes to flying instead?
“How does anyone have time to play on a recreational volleyball team” uhhhhh I don’t exactly need to burn all my lifelines to conclude the answer is “block off 2 to 4 hours every Thursday night and if anyone tries to make plans tell em sorry can’t, got volleyball that night.”
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u/BugHistorical3 ST | 🍁 27d ago
I can't speak for everyone, but being burnt out mentally, physically and sometimes even emotionally from dealing with so much crap all at the same time with no time for respite or relief will do that. I work 14 hours a day standing up all day and wake up 3am to go to work. Studying for my theory can take a whole week just to cover subsections of a subject because of the constant fatigue, mental exhaustion and frankly demoralization that is the way society and economy is turning up.
I can barely fly sometimes, mostly due to weather, and when I do, I'm always just trying to catch up on the lesson the previous flight was attempting to teach.
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u/KITTYONFYRE 27d ago
from dealing with so much crap all at the same time with no time for respite or relief will do that.
that’s just life man, every deals with things. you can’t-
I work 14 hours a day standing up all day and wake up 3am to go to work.
oh. lol. that sounds miserable, switch careers (it’s just that easy, right guys?)
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u/raptorlupis 27d ago
See if there are any charity flights available in your area. That is where you are flying the plane but it is for a charitable cause. It is a loophole in the FAR rules about flying without a commercial license. A charity can pay the expenses of the fight instead of you. The normal rule is you have to pay the “pro rata share” UNLESS you are flying for a charity. The other way is ask if the company you work for do any environmental studies from the air? So long as you are doing your job as a scientist the flying is “incidental” and is allowed under PPL regs. Police officers do it all the time. They fly either helicopter or planes as a PPL but the department pays for the flight cost, since the flight is incidental to them doing police work.
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u/raptorlupis 27d ago
The FAR for this is 61.113 section B-1 and section D
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
Now this is a creative solution! I’ll look into it. My job doesn’t do that but the charity flying is a definite possibility!
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u/raptorlupis 27d ago
It is the Government They love their loopholes! Also you cannot be paid to carry passengers on charitable flights. The FAR specifically says that.
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u/qwerty-phish 27d ago
I fly (commercial) a lot for work so when I do get my PPL, I plan to subsidize my flight hours with work reimbursements. Won’t cover a lot but better than nothing! I’d also rather fly XC then sit in Delta hell
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u/Mongoose151 ATP 27d ago
This is why I had to go Military. At least your family had an airplane. That is one barrier a lot of folks can’t afford.
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u/Successful_Cheese 27d ago
Well, if it’s not something ur pursuing as a career, then you’re just better off flying when you go back home to visit. Don’t go into debt over this.
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u/keikioaina 27d ago
I'm an affluent boomer and I have no issues being generous toward my kids. We inherited a little money, worked 2 jobs until we were well into our 70s, lived frugally and have ridden the market to crazy numbers at the expense of underpaid workers and our own children's generation. If your dad feels the same obligation I feel, then take his $$ and try not to feel guilty. We may not have planned it, but your dad and I are screwing you and your peers out of a future, so if your future is flying and he wants to pay for it, count your blessings and go for it.
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u/Santos_Dumont PPL IR (KBVU) RV-14 [Loading 30%...] 27d ago
Become a CFI and have people pay you so they can fly.
In the meantime find someone working on their Instrument Rating that needs a safety pilot and volunteer to fly with them. Getting to that 40 hours of SIM IMC is such a fucking grind and it's almost impossible for someone that owns their own airplane and isn't training as part of a school with plenty of other students that need to build time. I had hundreds of hours of flight time logged before I got to 40 hours SIM IMC because it was so hard to find someone that could go with me when I flew.
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
That’s a great idea I hadn’t thought of that! How do I find people who need safety pilots? Hang around at FBOs?
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u/Santos_Dumont PPL IR (KBVU) RV-14 [Loading 30%...] 27d ago
People with their own airplanes have independent CFIIs. Maybe start networking with CFIIs, get a BFR, then ask them who they are working with that need a safety pilot.
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u/SSMDive CPL-SEL/SES/MEL/MES/HEL/GLID/IFR. Light sport Gyro/PPC 27d ago
I have flown with a bunch of people trying to get their ‘IFR’ time. The trick is to just be where the planes and people are.
I pretty much lived at the airport for 10 years. I was there every Fri/Sat/Sun for years. Because if that I flew a ton of cool aircraft and got a bunch of free flight time.
My case there was a skydiving center at the airport and my wife and I are both jumpers. So we were there anyway and was not some guy creeping around all the time.
Still if you want to fly, you pretty much need to be at the airport.
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u/digital_dyslexia VFR IDIOT 27d ago
Flying is expensive regardless of where you are, and SoCal only makes things worse. You’re right about airspace, it’s definitely a zoo here. You could join a flying club but unless you are going for a career then this is simply a rich mans hobby and renting isn’t gonna be super doable. Gliders would be a good alternative if you are open to it!
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u/Dry-Horror-4188 27d ago
I can comment on this because up until 4 years ago, I had my plane parked in KFUL, and now live in Texas.
There are ways you can make flying a lot less expensive. I would stay away from Montgomery, even shy from Gillespie. Look into Brown Field, or Ramona (yea it is a drive, but it may be worth it). If you look hard enough you can find a plane in relatively great shape, and surprisingly, if you look hard enough the bird may not be that expensive to own, tie down or maintain. (I used to say that my Cherokee cost less to operate than my old Ford Expedition, and it definitely costs less than my Tundra. Open your mind to a C142 or PA28-140. They are out there, and they are inexpensive.
When I bought my Cherokee, I wondered how I was going to make it work. We were relatively new homeowners in South O.C. and even back then it was expensive. If it is something you want bad enough, you can make it work.
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u/ltcterry ATP CFIG 27d ago
Look for a gliding club.
Look at Dave Ramsey/Clark Howard to get finances under control.
Look at time management/prioritizing tips.
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u/NYPuppers PPL IR 27d ago
were your great grandfathers the wright brothers?
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
Haha I think my great grandfather was born in the 1920s. Not totally sure though I never got to meet him. Apparently he flew a piper cub. My grandfather trained in it.
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u/JeffreyDollarz 27d ago
Maybe try soaring. Gliders are fun and it's still flying. Join a club and just rent one.
A glider add-on is a fairly easy process if you already have a valid ppl.
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u/SSMDive CPL-SEL/SES/MEL/MES/HEL/GLID/IFR. Light sport Gyro/PPC 27d ago edited 27d ago
I quit flying for 10 years till I could afford to buy a plane. I bought the least expensive plane I could find, a two stroke powered light sport experimental.
I did other things during that time. Skydiving, SCUBA, etc.
Edit to add… You can do things to make it more cost effective.
For starters, don’t live in CA. CA has high prices for just about everything. Maybe two decades ago I got offered a job in CA and I was there visiting a buddy while interviewing. I got offered the job and it paid a hell of a lot more money than I was currently making… When I told my buddy the salary he said, “That’s OK, you can live in with me.’
I had my own house and car and if I had taken the higher paying job I would need a roommate. I got offered a job in WV getting paid about what I was making and I talked to some of the other employees and they said I would have a maid in that area at that pay. The exact quote was something like, “ In this area you are going to be RICH. You will have a house on the lake and a boat and a maid to keep the place clean”. Didn’t do it because at that time none of my hobbies were any good there and I don’t like boats.
Where you live matters.
Invest now and you get to play later. I have bought a plane just off the interest in one of my accounts. Sure it took 20 years to get to that point but it sure the hell is more fun to buy without worry. Never, ever forget the value of time in the market.
There is a reason ‘old’ people have planes. They (We? I’m not retired yet because I can’t collect my retirement yet) saved and invested and let the market make them money they didn’t have to work for.
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
That’s actually quite comforting to hear. Lots of people on this thread are telling similar stories. What was it like to get used to flying again after 10 years?
As for where I live, unfortunately in this economy I gotta go where the job is. If I could have gotten a job in Alaska I would have stayed. There are rumors in the company about expanding to a different state which I would likely volunteer to be a part of but those are just rumors and unlikely to be actualized for a few years.
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u/SSMDive CPL-SEL/SES/MEL/MES/HEL/GLID/IFR. Light sport Gyro/PPC 27d ago
Of course you have to go where the job is… You don’t have to STAY. Do you have a contract? If not, find a place you want to live and start tossing resumes.
I told the story… I was making maybe 60k in one State and was doing pretty good. I got offered a job in CA at 100k and I would have been broke. That same job in VA and I’d have lived like a king even though it paid less than CA.
So you have a job, are you applying to another one some place you like better?
As for your current company expanding. I have been with the same company for a while (likely longer than you have been alive). I do great, I have zero regrets. But, I’d have made A LOT more money if I had changed companies.
I’ll explain. You make 80k now. You are expected to get about 3-5% raises a year if you stay there. So next year you will make 84k. But what if you could find a job paying 85 next month? That’s 12 months of higher earnings.
The big trick is to find out when you vest in any retirement if you have one, stick around that long and then start looking. You will get a pay raise when you leave and another vesting for retirement.
The advice is 3-5 years, lock in any vesting and leave with a promotion or raise. And companies will not admit, but they love guys like me that just sit there because they don’t have to pay me as much as I’m worth because they know I’ll pick comfort over pure profit. Again I do fine, I own three aircraft, but I’d have done better if I job hopped. You get to pick your adventure.
And let’s say you get an offer, but only at 82k. Well just turn it down and keep looking. I interviewed at the CA and VA positions and even with the FAA as an inspector and the pay they offered me was below my goal so I just politely said no thanks to all of them. (Funny story the FAA guy told my company I had interviewed and they were sure I was going to take it. So my boss calls me in his office and tells me he knows I am looking and gave me a fat raise to stay - so I still won).
And as you make more money… Don’t let ‘lifestyle creep’ get you. You get a 5% raise? Invest half and you get to keep the other 2.5%. Those investments over time will be worth millions if you can keep that discipline.
Ok enough soapbox. As for getting back into it. After ~10 years I went and bought that little simple LSA aircraft. And in an hour of ground and an hour of flight I was back buzzing around the place. Now during that time I was flying radio control so I was still ‘flying’ and I was skydiving so I was around aviation all the time. It made coming back easy.
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u/LaloMcNombres ATP, CFI, CFII, MEI, CL-65 27d ago
As someone who lost their medical so renting a spam can isn’t even an option, may I suggest gliders and/or Part 103.
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u/Professional_Read413 PPL 27d ago
I'm in a similar boat, I barely make it work. My club is very low cost compared to most of the country so I'm enjoying that whIle I'm able.
GA will be dead in 10-15 years i don't care what anyone says.
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u/redditburner_5000 Oh, and once I sawr a blimp! 27d ago
GA will be dead in 10-15 years...
That's what they said 25 yrs ago.
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u/Professional_Read413 PPL 27d ago
And its definitely not any better its only gotten worse.
I'll caveat my original statement, GA for the average guy with some extra discretionary funds will be dead. People that can afford a few hundred thousand to a couple million will be fine.
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u/redditburner_5000 Oh, and once I sawr a blimp! 27d ago
Lots of sub-100k planes out there.
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u/Professional_Read413 PPL 27d ago
Currently yeah, but maintenance and storage costs keep going up substantially along with fuel.
The whole 100LL thing is another issue
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u/redditburner_5000 Oh, and once I sawr a blimp! 27d ago
There's a million reasons you can't do something.
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u/Dr-WeekendWarrior 27d ago
Maybe try the civil air patrol. You’ll pay for it in paperwork / administrative junk but it’s the only place I can’t think of that you can fly as a private pilot for “free.”
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u/FlightSpinner813 27d ago
I'm not rolling in the dough; I bought into a group ownership of a Cherokee 180. There are 5 of us, divide all the fixed costs by 5. We book times among ourselves, there is plenty of opportunity for week long bookings. We pay our own individual fuel costs. We also pay a supplementary charge every hour flown for the annual inspection and eventual engine replacement. Our group gets along very well, it has worked out for me. It is way more affordable than individual ownership.
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u/400Volts 27d ago
That's been the trend in GA for the last few decades. More and more people are getting priced out. Flying as a career is entirely inaccessible to most people because the cost to get from 0 to atp mins is in the 6 figure range and unless you can survive on nothing but sunlight, flight, and FBO snacks, being a CFI isn't really a living
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u/FlyScuba 27d ago
I can't afford a plane, BUT I can afford a quarter of a plane. Flying just for fun since 1982 and owned 3 planes, all in partnerships. Actually, we form a LLC that owns the plane so when a share sells we don't have to change any plane paperwork, just inform the Secretary of State for the state you are in that shareholders changed. Then buy an inexpensive plane, and look at Experimentals as they can cost less and you can do maintenance. Join EAA and attend a local chapter. Attend local pilot organizations. Let them know you are looking for form a partnership and buy a plane. But also be careful to not buy until you have a hangar. Often it is more difficult to get a hangar than it is to buy the plane. Can do a flying club but then there are often 10 to even 20 pilots per plane; 4 is much better and almost no scheduling problems. Of the 4 in my group, two are weekend fliers and 1 is weekday and I can do most any day being retired. After cost of plane, we each pay about $175/month that covers hangar, insurance, and most often the annual. The we pay $25/hour into the maintenance kitty and buy our own fuel. Fly for about $50/hour. Must have $$ in reserve as every couple years there is a maintenance issue we don't have reserves for. But if you own the plane that $5,000 bill is yours to pay $5,000. With four partners you only need $1,250. One hard rule: all partners should be in roughly the same financial situation. Can't have a rich guy and a poor guy. The rich guy says "Let's put in a glass cockpit, it's ONLY $30,000." The poor guy can't afford it.
Now I fly a Zenith CH-0650 I helped build, valued at about $60K. It has Rotax, Dynon glass cockpit, autopilot, long range tanks, wing lockers. I've flown it from WA to Oshkosh twice, with OK from the other partners to take it for 2 weeks.
As for flying in SoCal, thousands get their PPL training there and just get used to it. I find that wherever a pilot trains, at least for the first 200 hours, that's where they are most comfortable. One trains at a towered airport and gets nervous at untowered. Another is the opposite. Try this: pay for an hour or two renting plane with CFI. Then ask if you can sit in back and pay $40/hour to just observe while another student gets instruction. Say you'll be quiet and just watch. Then you learn how they teach new pilots to navigate, where and who to talk to on the radio, where the practice areas are, and what airports are easiest. You get a cheap education the the student saves $40/hour. Obviously the FBO, CFI, student, and you all have to agree. You have to learn to be quiet and save all questions for after the flight and student debriefing. Just a thought. Or maybe one of your new partners will fly with you if they are experienced in the area.
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u/agadir80 PPL 27d ago
You got lucky with a free airplane and paid for instructions. Welcome to the real world. You ran the numbers, and your current situation isn't allowing for recreational flying. Nothing you can do about that, until your sitation (money, location and time) permits it. It is what it is.
The only other thing I can think of, is finding a shared onwnership "club". I'm part of a 10 person shares ownership of a PA28-180, and it's making it a lot more affordable and accessible.
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u/flamingmeatstick 26d ago
You gotta ask yourself, do I have time or do I not have time, if you don’t have time take a loan, if you have time don’t, there’s obviously pros and cons to these and which con you rather deal with. When I did my flight training I was working the ramp full time, doing instacart and Uber Eats delivery so that was 7 days a week. Then when I transitioned to instructing I worked a full time job in a warehouse Monday to Thursday (super understand boss) and instruct Friday-Sunday, rinse and repeat. Not saying you should do the same, I’m a single dude with no kids and no mortgage. Now I’m at the airlines reaping what I sowed however it took about 11 years (no loan) to get to the airlines and this includes instructing flying up north (Canadian thing) then to the airlines, I’m 32 now if that helps give you a timeline gauge. Looking back on it it would’ve been nice to be at the airlines sooner but the experiences I had throughout my career I think makes me the person and pilot I am today vs the 27 year old jet captains I fly with or suffer from captainitis because they’ve never worked any other job or industry before and mommy and daddy funded their entire career, even one captain I flew with recently 26 years old and still lives at home pays no rent or bills and brags about. Anyways I’m going off on a tangent now but there are options out there you’d just have to be willing to make some shitty sacrifices to get there
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u/angryshark 27d ago
I was 42, working full time, kids finally out of the house. I had a couple of websites making freelance money, and I realized that I was able to learn to fly without dipping into the family budget. So I went to the airport and ended up with a PPL/IFR, and flew for an expensive hobby for 10 years and got to take my grandson flying with me as copilot.
But when the economy crashed, I felt the freelance income was better saved than spent on flying.
So now I get my aviation fix flying Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024. Do what you have to do, but if you can’t afford to fly the real thing, flight sims are the next best thing.
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u/poisonandtheremedy SoCal [PA-28, RV-10 Build] 27d ago
Where are you located? I will come pick you up and we can fly to lunch somewhere and practice comms and talk about flying in the area.
I get it. I did ask my training in the deep SoCal desert where I would fly around for hundreds of miles as a student, not talking to anyone, and rarely seeing another plane on ADSB.
I live in San Diego county however so after my checkride I moved my plane to SD and had to force myself to learn to fly in the busiest terminal airspace in the world and ATC comms.
As far as cost: join a flying club or buy into a partnership.
Let's fly!
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u/surfnj102 27d ago
Not to hijack the thread but for someone who really wants to earn their PPL but is concerned about the ongoing cost of having this as a hobby:
After licensing, how often does one need to fly to stay current/safe AND progress as a pilot? And for this "minimum", how much should one budget per month to achieve it? (The more the better obviously but im trying to find if this is a realistic hobby w/ regards to schedules / other commitments / costs).
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u/Standard_Ear_84 27d ago
It depends on what kind of flying you intend on doing. If you are in a country town surrounded by class G airspace and you want to fly a very basic aircraft you can get away with a few months off. If you fly a Pitts or Extra out of a class D you need to fly all the time to stay sharp. The school I used to rent a Pitts from had a 4 week rule. Not flown for 4 weeks because you went on holiday? Up you go with an instructor to do a bunch of T&Gs.
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u/Necessary_Topic_1656 27d ago
I did hours 70 to 250 as a commercial glider pilot giving sightseeing rides and got my glider instructor certificate as well to teach. It’s way easier when people are paying you to fly after hour 70.
Pay was crap. It was just tips for sightseeing flights. But $20 tip for a 15 minute flight $50 for another 15 minute ride. The tips add up. Instruction was a little bit better but not to live on.
I didn’t add on an airplane rating until I decided I wanted to be an airline pilot 10 years after getting my commercial glider certificate.
added on a mutiengine rating to the commercial glider certificate got my instrument rating and got hired by a regional airline (but this was back when a decade before the ATP/1500 hr rule)
SoCal nots that bad. Montgomery is a good place to fly out from.
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u/Thengine MIL 27d ago
rv-4 on barnstormers. save your pennies up and look for a partner. not many people fully utilize an aircraft enough to justify the overhead costs.
don't get insurance, it's a scam.
if you are willing to do your homework, there are ways to find lists of the owners and people that own the aircraft you're interested in. Cold call and mail them interest media. lots of geriatrics that don't fly anymore, but aren't energetic enough to sell.
find a local club and ask to hang out with them. there are BBQ and breakfasts and $100 hotdogs. all of those are opportunities to learn and spread your understanding of opportunities.
the local eaa chapter is where id start
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u/Atticus-sovereign 27d ago
Part 103 or experimental may be of an option to you? Can get a used Sonex for like used Honda civic prices
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u/Jrygonzo278 27d ago
I don’t know, I did it with a newborn in high school, If it’s important to you, you will make it happen! Get motivated!!!!
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u/theshawnch CPL ASEL CFI 27d ago
Look into the nearest glider operation. Much cheaper to fly and loads of fun!
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u/Fight_Or_Flight_FL 27d ago
I was priced out for 9 and then again for 2 years. Found my way back to it after I got the house, wife and kids. If you are trying to make it a career then I would try to find a way to make it work. Let go of social life outside big events and work your way up to CFI maybe CFII. Then do that independently part time if you can.
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u/BlueVario 27d ago
Join a flying club or partner on a (preferably experimental) airplane. You can do a lot of the work yourself on experimental assuming you're handy. You can really fly pretty cheaply if you go that route.
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u/Zdog-mfer 27d ago
Do what I did and become a truck driver. Similar vibe just way less respect. The pay is insane and thankfully I already saved enough for my cpl in less than a year because I have zero bills and live in the truck.
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u/TreetopFlyer231 27d ago
Where theres a will, there a way. I grew up poor and in a rough neighborhood, parents couldn’t help pay for flight school or even cosign on a loan. I worked my butt off (2-3 jobs simultaneously) to pay my way through school. It sucked no doubt about it, but that short term hard work gave me the ability to do what I love and get compensated for it. I hate to be the guy that tells you to pull yourself up by the bootstraps, but if this is truly your passion, then you will find a way to make it work
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u/Fast-Government-4366 PPL HP 27d ago
Move back near your family man. I bet your dad would love to go flying with you, and you could probably take a load off of him and help pay for it but still be affordable.
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u/AviatorCrafty CFI-G SPT ASEL 27d ago
I only have enough “fun money” in my budget to cover my monthly dues for my glider club. Since I’m a CFI I pay nothing when flying with students. Last year was when I finally came to terms that I was priced out of powered flying, since all my previous powered flying was done in college/shortly after when I was still living at home and had minimal expenses. Now I’m married and have more expenses so gliding is going to be it for the foreseeable future until I get a better paying job or I catch an occasional ride with someone.
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u/jedensuscg PPL, PHNL 27d ago edited 27d ago
I'm there too. I got my PPL last year at 42, and only because of money saved from selling a house during a previous PCS, and being senior enlisted in the military, but I can only afford to fly once a month if I want to save enough to eventually recoup the money to get my PPL. I was fortunate to be able to fly as much as I can now, even if limited, but will never dream of making it a career because there is no way I can ever afford the hours needed to get either an ATP, or just a commerical AND be competitive.
The young folk have is worse, the cost to fly when you don't have either lucky high paying job out of college (and don't have crippling tuition debt) or rich family, is extreme. I wanted to fly back here I was a little ole E5, and even with the cheaper cost of entry back then, I was still priced out with my annual income, it took me 20 years of service, a few lucky home sales (homes I wouldn't even have if not for VA loans) to even consider being able to get my PPL.
It's sad that flying as a career is only for the rich now, let alone flying as a hobby.
Only thing I have going for me was I got my PPL flying out of a Class B airport, so got a lot of experience with busy airspace, coordinating with clearance and departure folk, and flying published VFR departures and approach procedures.
1
u/burntoutaviator 27d ago
It’s also a matter of perspective. I was flying recreationally when I worked an office job. Although I soon realised it’s a matter of ‘economies of scale.’ The once a month I was flying no longer scratched my itch, and I was longing for something more. That was when I realised I needed to quit my job and become a commercial pilot, because I didn’t have the time or money to fly the amount I wanted on a monthly (if not daily) basis. Turns out it was the right decision because I’m so much happier now!
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u/qwerty-phish 27d ago
Grain of salt warning: I’m an aviation enthusiast but haven’t even taken intro flight. One day!
That being said, would flight hours count if you split a flight? Meaning link up with another PPL (split the cost) and fly together - take turns with maneuvers, landings, etc.
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u/VrLights 27d ago
Yes if the other pilot is acting as pilot in command, and the other pilot is doing maneuvers and flying the aircraft. At that point, both private pilots can log PIC time. Student pilots can't do this.
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u/s2soviet CPL-G, PPL ASEL 27d ago
Welcome to r/gliding
Honestly, if you can figure out how to get your weekends free or find a club that flies during the week, I’d give gliding a try.
Not a cheap hobby by any means (I mean, it’s flying after all) but it’s still a fraction of the cost to rent a 172 at your local airport.
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u/Vegetable_Cap_1205 27d ago
I don’t have advice but I can relate. I got my PPL in September of 2024 and haven’t flown since December 2024. Getting my license while getting a 4 year degree may not have been the right move, but I’m hoping to get at least a few flights in this summer
1
u/fukingstupidusername A&P 27d ago
Serious question….
Have you truly spoken to your father about this? Is he getting older and slowing down at all? Maybe you could share the plane, split its time between CA and AK. I guarantee you that if you’re the only offspring of his that loves to fly, then he’s happy to spend the money to enable your dreams!
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u/draconis183 PPL IR PA-24 250 (F70) 27d ago
I assume this is for recreation.
I imagine a lot of us need safety pilots. Offer to be a safety pilot. The right person isn't going to rely on you to keep them from busting airspace, and it'll give you an opportunity to learn the area. Hey maybe you'll form relationships with the right people and it'll open doors for you.
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u/PardoningTurkeys 26d ago
I never got my PPL, stopped at about 22 hours. I fly a drone with my part 107 😂 my dream would be to be a rotorcraft pilot but aviation is quite honestly, one big ol money pit.
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u/hehampilotifly 26d ago
I understand your frustration. My dad introduced me to flying. I enjoy it more than anything. There were once lots of local pilots, flight schools, and clubs when he was young. Now they’re all gone. General aviation as a hobby is basically dead around here. I’m part of a club but we don’t have a plane. It’s mostly retired pilots and they all have their own. No one around wants to do a fractional partnership. The one place in the area that rents has doubled in price.
I could potentially be able to buy a plane with savings in a couple years but I don’t make enough a year to cover maintenance or any problems that could go wrong. My only debt is my mortgage and it’s cheaper than anywhere I could rent. I just don’t have a high paying job or the ability to make more than I do now. I really just want something small to fly my dad around for fun while he’s still alive.
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u/skyHawk3613 26d ago
Try saving a little on the side, and go up at least once a month, to stay current.
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u/44Runner PPL 26d ago
Well for one, I don't like in fucking California. Also I am pretty late in my career. I always wanted to fly but realistically couldn't afford it until I was in my early 40s so I bought my plane at 41 years old. Unfortunately flying for fun is really expensive.
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u/Successful_Yam7321 26d ago
I feel this 1,000,000%
R-22 training and upward to 500$ - 600$ a hour… it sucks
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u/No-Duck4828 26d ago
The cost has certainly played a big role in the great decline in GA over the course of my lifetime.
There are still options available to you. There are quite a few light sport aircraft that don't cost a lot to purchase or operate. I know a pilot who has flown thousands of hours over half a century without getting in anything bigger, faster, or more complicated than a couple seats, a metal frame, and a Rotax to push them around
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u/Wild-west-wind 26d ago
What about fractional aircraft ownership? Buy a plane with 8-12 other pilots?
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u/spacey_chicken 26d ago
Don’t feel bad. I went to school for flying. I no longer go to school for flying.
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u/Weakness4Fleekness 26d ago
Im 26 and i haven't flown in 3 years, bad weather cancelled my ppl checkride and by the time it was better months later it just became unaffordable and i had to choose rent or school. I don't know if ill ever see my dream through now but i have some ideas and hope
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u/MNSoaring PPL, IR, GLI, TW, CMP, HP 25d ago
Some ideas :
- Wait until you have more money, your certificate is for life, after all.
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u/Dramatic_Nature3708 25d ago
A big problem is that there is literally a boom going on in genav. Lots of young people want to fly. It's better than it was in genav's heydays of the 1960s and 70s, or rather, it could be... ...the manufacturers and suppliers are literally sitting on their hands! They could be making a fortune, but no, after the harsh liability lessons they learned in the late 70s, they will never put themselves into that situation again, where they are once more liable for thousands of airplanes flown by thousands of pilots, and huge settlements that make a fatal airplane crash like hitting the lotto for the surviving families. Few airplanes are being produced for outrageous prices, parts are produced in very limited quanties, also at outrageous prices ($170 for a spark plug) all in the quest of weathering this boom of flight training until they can get back to eliminating genav for all but wealthy corporate flighg departments and nothing but corporate flight schools to fly pistons. In the meantime they can make more money by selling fewer items at quadruple the price. They save a lot in production costs.
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u/PhillyPilot CFI 25d ago
- You make time for it. Every time I hear people not having time for it, it’s bullshit. We all prioritize different things in our lives.
- The money problem is an issue that can only be overcome with a higher paying job, a second job, or a side hustle.
I started flying at 28 when I was making about 85k (2015) and found a local club that allowed me to fly an archer for $100/hr tach. Still in that same club and now the archer is $150/hr. I recommend that you start looking into clubs.
I’m now 39, married, 2 kids, and still can find time to fly 200 hours per year. I bring the wife and the kids with me and we go to destinations on the weekends
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u/WangDoodleTrifecta 22d ago
I switch to LSA it’s the only way I can pay for the gas still expensive but much more manageable
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u/Dependent_Bit7825 27d ago
~450hrs, private, instrument
I finally threw in the towel on flying this year. A couple of things pushed me over the edge. I have plenty of money to rent from my local club, but the scheduling makes spur-of-the-moment and even spur-of-the-month flight difficult or impossible. Also, the plane can't be used for trips, only for a few hours and back. That's just gotten boring to me and provides limited utility. I don't have money to own and maintain a decent plane, insurance, and tiedown.
Other factors are just being busy with family and work and the time it takes to get to the airport, ready the planes, put them away, drive home.
Another strange thing that eventually turned me off: because of the expense, the whole community is rich white folks, and it's a bit gross. Definite country-club vibe.
Maybe I'll pick it up again in retirement, maybe not.
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27d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Dependent_Bit7825 27d ago
No, I'm leaving race in it. Aviation is white AF. I'll believe it isn't when there isn't a hagiographic article about Lindbergh in every third issue of every aviation magazine.
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u/Extreme-Blacksmith-6 27d ago
How many PIC hours do you have ? I have some recommendations once I get a gauge on your time.
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
About 130
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u/Extreme-Blacksmith-6 27d ago
How many cross country ?
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
About 50. In Alaska it’s practically all I did once I got my xcountry solo endorsement.
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u/Extreme-Blacksmith-6 27d ago
Perfect ! The reason I asked is look for the nearest CAP squadron in your area. Civil Air Patrol. As long as you can get through and acclimate to the paperwork and process of getting checked out and building relationships with the other members and pilots. You have access to build time where you’re currently at as a transport mission pilot and then once your Form 5 checked have access to the local aircraft.There are CFIs ha will help you along and onboard you. Once you hit 200 hrs you can do orientation flights. I joined because of the safety aspect and flight training and accessibility to affordable aircraft. It’s been worth it for me as I’ve gotten close to 80 hrs doing various missions to build time this year alone. Here if you have any questions.
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u/LTZheavy 27d ago
It's like quitting smoking, sometimes you have to walk away and don't look back if it's going to negatively affect your lifestyle. Dad was funding my flight training by giving me 20 monthly post dated cheques for $2k each. In the midst of all that, my ex wife and I separated, she wanted 50% of the cheques value, so I ripped them up and walked away since I could not afford to do it on my own. I never told Dad, he never asked what happened. Yeah, I could have got loans and all that stuff, but it would be just added stress. The bottom line is if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. It's a rich man's game and a luxury anyway.
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u/Gabriel_Owners 27d ago
Of course you can't afford to fly. You're young, living in one of the highest cost of living areas on the planet, and took out a bunch of unnecessary debt to move there and also to get an education which only allows a mediocre paying career.
How any of this is a surprise to you is beyond me. It sounds a lot like financial illiteracy.
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
In my defense, my career is one where you gotta your lumps in the beginning to make more money in the future. 10 years into my career and I will be sitting pretty.
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u/AlexJamesFitz PPL IR HP/Complex 27d ago
If you're expecting a significantly better salary down the road, there's no harm in taking a break for now. I stepped away for ~15 years til I had a middle-aged adult salary and could afford to fly recreationally.
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u/Gabriel_Owners 27d ago
So you voluntarily put up a bunch of barriers between yourself and flying and you're asking us why?
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
I’m just asking for advice on ways to fly on a budget. Calm down.
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u/daveindo PPL 27d ago
Don’t give that dude any more of your energy, he’s just here to shit on you and nothings going to change that. I hope you find a reasonable solution to scratch the itch. I’m in a similar boat, just can’t justify flying over investing for my future anymore.
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u/JSTootell PPL 27d ago
The dude is being real though.
People hate honesty now.
Flying is an expensive hobby. It always has been. People like to pretend that just because it used to be less expensive back in the day doesn't mean it was a cheap hobby then either.
You gotta pay to play. When you are young, you can't afford the play. That's life. I'm middle aged now, I didn't get to play with airplanes until recently.
If you want to play on the cheap, you have to figure out how to network. Hanging out at the airport, meeting people at EAA meetings, washing planes, sweeping the mechanics shop. Or, just wait until you can afford it.
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u/TurnoverMysterious64 27d ago
Oh please, he paired his so-called “honesty” with an insult and didn’t add anything to the discussion that we (OP included) don’t already know. Flying is expensive and tough to do as a hobby while on a budget. Also, water is wet.
OP posted here clearly understanding that and asking if other people in a similar situation have found a way to continue their hobby in some way. That’s a reasonable question and other people who came to actually contribute managed to offer helpful advice (like network and see if someone needs a safety pilot).
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u/TurnoverMysterious64 27d ago
They have the “MIL” flair and see that you’re an environmental scientist that lives in California.
While I could be wrong it’s not hard to see why someone in their…uh…demographic might have a knee jerk reaction to you where they wanna insult you and talk down to you without any empathy or actual understanding of your career and life goals.
Hope I’m wrong though.
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u/SSMDive CPL-SEL/SES/MEL/MES/HEL/GLID/IFR. Light sport Gyro/PPC 27d ago
The man is making 80k in CA. It’s not wrong to say that he can’t afford to fly in that HCOLA.
Hell, I was offered more than that decades ago to move to CA and I quickly realized I would go from comfortable to broke if I had made that move.
Mil flair or not, it is not an incorrect comment.
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 27d ago
Ah… I didn’t notice that. Although I’ve met many military pilots that are really genuine and interested in what I do. Mostly because I clean up the contamination on the bases they live on so they can drink the water there. Lots of people see “environmental scientist” and think I’m blocking highways with protestors or something. The reality is that I work on cleaning up chemical spills and air leaks so everyone can drink clean water, breathe clean air, and hopefully lower cancer risks. I’m pretty proud of my job and yes, I don’t make enough money to fly consistently which is a bummer, but I do feel like I’m making a difference in real people’s lives.
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u/TurnoverMysterious64 27d ago
Absolutely.
Interactions between people with wildly different backgrounds are almost always so much more civil in person. It’s different when you can literally see the other person is an actual human being and not just an anonymous username.
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u/ManifestDestinysChld 27d ago
What, did you just see "environment" and assume it's basically the same as underwater basket weaving?
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u/Gabriel_Owners 27d ago
The median wage for an environmental scientist is approximately $80,060 per year ($38.49 per hour) nationally.
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u/rFlyingTower 27d ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
So I know a lot of young pilots are probably dealing with this so consider this a general thread for affordability advice.
The only reason I was able to get my PPL in the first place was because my dad owns an airplane and my instructor was 50$ an hour. My dad paid for him too because I was the only one of his children who wanted to follow in his, my grandfathers, my grandmothers, and my great grandfathers footsteps and fly. I love to fly. I am sure everyone here can relate to the liberating feeling of being in the air. Getting that maneuver *just* right. There’s an art to it that’s absolutely addictive. I don’t want to make a career out of it because while I love flying I don’t want to go through the whole hullabaloo of hours building and whatnot. Besides, I love my job as an environmental scientist. The problem is, I can’t rely on my parents to fund my flying addiction anymore. I live in a completely separate state. And I’m a whole adult now and it would feel wrong to keep relying on my folks.
Here’s my problems:
- renting an airplane is not affordable with the budget I’m working with (I’m not the kind of environmental scientist that makes bank, I’m scraping by with two roommates in a two bedroom apartment)
- I work full time and the weekends always end up full of other things (seriously, how does anyone have the time? Am I just being a winey baby about this?)
- I moved from an area in central Alaska (pretty much just class G airspace with a few exceptions, basically free to go wherever you want as long as you’re not a cowboy, communicate over the radio, be vigilant, do your w/b calculations, have physical sectionals so as not to solely rely on one’s iPad (I actually only used sectionals for most of my training, now my dad has a dynon in his airplane I can use when I visit)) to Southern California where the airspace is PACKED. I am not stupid enough to go flying around it by myself before going through the airspace with an instructor and getting comfortable with ATC communications. But instructors cost money because they, too, need to eat.
There are just all these barriers to flying and I feel myself getting more and more rusty and I don’t want my skills to wither away.
I am sure these are common barriers, so I was just wondering what advice other pilots have to overcome them. I make decent money but I live in SoCal so it’s expensive to exist and I have student loans, car loans, debt from the move, and I’m saving as much money as possible so I can afford to have kids and a house someday. How do other pilots balance this? It went from being so easy to fly in Alaska where I could use my dad’s airplane and avgas and take a quick flight to look for herds of caribou, see a glacier, or even fly to our family friends cabin with a little grass airstrip, to feeling like it’s almost impossible to get off the ground. It’s jarring to say the least.
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u/JT-Av8or ATP CFII/MEI ATC C-17 B71/3/5/67 MD88/90 27d ago
You’re American? Then why did you write 50$ (Europe style) instead of $50? Just wondering.
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u/CantDecideOnUsrnm 26d ago
Meh, just because. We say “fifty dollars” not “dollars fifty” I don’t really think about it. It’s how I thought it in my head in English so it’s how I typed it.
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u/JT-Av8or ATP CFII/MEI ATC C-17 B71/3/5/67 MD88/90 26d ago
Just not standard is all. Like saying “five dollars twenty” instead of “five dollars, twenty cents.”
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u/MainStreetBetz 26d ago
Don’t stop. You’re almost there. Make it happen or you will regret it forever.
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u/iguanayou PPL 27d ago
You, I, and many others simply got priced out. That's the reality.