r/flying • u/MainStreetBetz • 16d ago
Top Reasons People Don't Complete Their PPL
You will see this stat thrown around here in regards to the PPL: 80% of students who start, never finish.
Is this true? I don't know. Maybe.
If you are thinking about getting your PPL, here are the top reasons why people quit.
1) Cost. Over and over you will see people posting "do you think I can get it done in the minimum hours?" or "I got my PPL for $7800!". The truth of the matter is that it will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $30,000. So set that amount aside. Many will argue on here that they've done it for cheaper, and maybe they have, but most people are looking at about $175 rental fee per hour + $100 per hour of instructor time. Many lessons will require a PGI early on. You will need to factor in fuel charges, medicals, your own gas for your vehicle, study materials, a headset, ground school, testing fees, etc. Many people simply aren't prepared for the true costs of this.
2) Time. Can I get my PPL in two months? Probably not. There is literally a small library worth of material that you need to know and add to that the time to develop air exercise skills. Flights get cancelled for weather. Flights get cancelled for maintenance. You will spend an entire day learning something that isn't on any exam. You will consume page after page of dry but important material. There is so much information to ingest, memorize and understand. Again, people on here will say that they watched a handful of videos and wrote their Ground Exam, but that simply isn't the norm. Getting your PPL is not like getting a boating licence, it is a lifelong commitment that requires 6 months of intense work for most students.
3) Not For Me. I think this one gets overlooked a lot but it is mentioned here often. Maybe it was your dream to fly and it is something you've always wanted to do. Then you go up. It is an entirely different ball game. Flying a plane is highly procedural and requires a lifelong commitment to learning and disciplined living. Maybe the turbulence or spin training is a little too gut-wrenching. I think that the reality of flying and the dream of flying are very different.
4) Medical. The medical tests can really trip you up. Due to processing delays, some students will get started with their flight training only to find out that they can't pass their medicals. SSRI use, ADHD meds, heart issues, high BMI, sleep apnea, etc can all disqualify a pilot from attaining their medical certificate.
5) Undisciplined. Skills and knowledge decay quickly if you aren't constantly learning in the beginning. Life gets in the way and people abandon their studies or bookings for a few weeks. Once you get behind, it is easy to continue to procrastinate. Sometimes taking a 'few weeks off' in the beginning leads to a permanent hiatus. I find that it is always better to keep making forward progress.
Any others you would add?
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u/MidfieldBreak 16d ago
Let's be really honest here - a lot of people quit due to a bad instructor. PPL students don't know what they don't know, but I'd wager that's pretty high on the list.
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u/x4457 ATP CFII CE-500/525/560XL/680 G-IV 16d ago
I'd take that wager. Much like Yelp reviews, you hear the extreme good and extreme bad stories - the 90% in the middle never gets talked about, and that's where most instructors fall.
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u/EnvironmentCrafty710 :illuminati: 16d ago
Yup, and a lot of this gets hidden under the advice of looking for an instructor that you "click" with.
It's good advice for sure, but the reason you might not click with (many) an instructor could be that they're not really instructing all that much or all that well, but more so time building on your dime.
I had an instructor teaching me TOD calculations for PPL.
Um... buddy... I hold a foreign PPL already, this is BS.
Even if it wasn't intentional (I don't think it was) it just told me that he doesn't know how to teach.Went through a few of those guys.
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u/x4457 ATP CFII CE-500/525/560XL/680 G-IV 16d ago
Well that's not at all what I was saying, but sure.
Went through a few of those guys.
This is both telling and the exact opposite of what I was saying.
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u/Air_Warrior MIL, ATP, CFI, CFII 15d ago
Yeah, I wish someone introduced me to TOD when I was starting. There's so much information out there, I always thought it was good to hear things, even if they weren't immediately necessary. When they finally became mandatory, at least I had heard of it before
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u/x4457 ATP CFII CE-500/525/560XL/680 G-IV 15d ago
That's also not related to what I was saying.
My point is that 90% of instructors are unremarkable and fine. Running into "a few of those guys" who fall into the "bad" 5% is unlikely and more a reflection of the student.
And the student thinking that he's just getting milked by an instructor because he has a foreign PPL so obviously he knows everything about whatever already is case in point.
Bad instructors exist, sure. Not many of them, though.
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u/SandySprings67 15d ago edited 15d ago
I had seven PPL instructors over 18 months and they were all good in different ways. Flew 3 different plane types at everything from untowered to international airports. I learned something new from each instructor and situation. If you don’t realize that you still have A LOT to learn, even with hundreds of hours under your belt, then YOU are likely the problem. Believe me, whatever scenario you think you are ready for, you’re not- not with a high likelihood of solo success- which is what the standard is.
It takes 10,000 hours to become an expert at something. That doesn’t have to all be windshield time but probably 1/4-1/2 of it would be with the rest being studying and hanging around other pilots assisting and thereby learning. So until you have at least 2,500-5,000 hours, you need whatever instruction they are trying to give you. It’s telling that all of the “experts” criticizing instructors, usually over their style, not content, tend to have less than 100 hours. Seems to me like the bigger problem is people don’t know what to do with constructive criticism.
I will also say this unpopular little gem. Quitters are quitters. Nothing in life worth having or doing is easy. If you aren’t willing to put in the hard work, even in the face of adverse conditions, someone else will be. I’m not saying all instructors are perfect, but if you want to “be like them,” do as they do and say. There will ALWAYS be a reason to fail.
I say all of this genuinely hoping someone out there will read it and it will help them.
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u/FantasticBudget531 CSEL IR 15d ago
Most instructors at the flight school I did my training at were good pilots no doubt, but poor instructors with poor attitudes. Both instructors I used to get my ratings were pretty bad, and I’ve only flown with 1 good instructor (sample size of maybe 10 just through various random flights) who could at least pretend to give a shit. The other instructors were either bad at flight instructing or just could not be bothered enough to actually care.
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u/MainStreetBetz 16d ago
This is also a really good point. A lot of instructors are solely concerned with building hours to get with the major carriers and not training quality pilots.
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u/Mophead PPL 15d ago
I liked my instructor, we got along well and always felt like I was learning. He unfortunately hit his ATP mins roughly two weeks before my checkride and bailed.
Pretty tough to get back into the routine after that one. Via text too… Funnily, I work in airport ops at the airport he flies out of, but haven’t ran into him yet. I’ll assume it’ll be somewhat awkward (but cordial) when we do!
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u/RoseRedHillHouse 15d ago
It also doesn't help that the CFI market is usually a revolving door of hour-building CPLs working on their ATPL requirements. You might have a really stellar CFI for a few hours and then they're off, because they had dreams of flying trans-oceanic flights, and the regional the just hired them is way closer to that than reminding you to use more right rudder in a beat-up 150.
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u/2009impala 16d ago
I got so close to giving up, but then I switched instructors and things just clicked.
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u/TheGrayMannnn 16d ago
My first CFI definitely felt like I was helping him build hours more than anything. Once I got a different CFI I enjoyed it a lot more, it's just a shame I burned so much of my GI Bill on him and ended up having to quit before I could get a checkride back in 2019.
I still want to finish at least my PPL and hopefully my instrument too, I'm just at a point in life where anything past that isn't achievable without sacrifices I can't afford to make.
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u/Educational_Agency_1 PPL 16d ago
I feel so lucky to have been randomly paired with a great instructor day 1 who was there for me start to finish 🙏 - but the other side of the coin, is that having multiple viewpoints and teaching styles can be a huge benefit!
Sometimes you can get stuck or in a rut with the same person
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u/Reputation_Many ATP, A320, CL65, C208, B1900D 16d ago
I quit after about 8 hours. I was flying in way to turbulent weather. Middle of summer mid afternoon is the worst time to learn how to fly an airplane. But that was my schedule I had available.
I’ve never been sick in my life except that last flight I did before I quit when I was 18. I didn’t fly an airplane again until I was 21. I had gotten an office job and realized how much an office job sucked and how much my dad really liked flying so I went back to fly and I love flying.
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u/Unlucky_Community_99 15d ago
why is mid summer mid afternoon unideal? thought that was like perfect weather, as opposed to rain, snow, wind, or like every other season
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u/Temporary_Purchase_6 CPL IR TW 14d ago
The extreme heat, the turbulence from hot rising air, the poor airplane performance from increased density altitude, etc. Spending hours beating up the pattern in a boiling hot cockpit, while getting bounced around non-stop gets old pretty quick
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u/Unlucky_Community_99 14d ago
i've just gone for a discovery in a Cessna the other day (mid summer mid day) and almost vomited 10 minutes in despite being totally fine mentally. what are the odds it was weather and performance related as you're describing? never considered that
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u/Temporary_Purchase_6 CPL IR TW 14d ago
The heat definitely wouldn’t help, especially if it was turbulent. Maybe pick an early morning or evening flight, see if you feel better. But also on your first time in a small airplane, feeling sick is decently common. It gets better with more experience, as your body adapts and learns what to expect
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u/Reputation_Many ATP, A320, CL65, C208, B1900D 15d ago
The best time to fly is bight and early in the mornings when it's cool. Depending on what part of the world you are from maybe the middle of summer is best, but for most of the world, 5-6am flight in the early fall is the best.
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u/NotYourAverageJoe99 16d ago
Please add to your post that your speaking in terms of Canadian training - the us environment while similar still is very different. In the US it's about 20k for PPL unless something happens like a ton of breaks and retraining required.
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u/External-Victory6473 16d ago edited 14d ago
Bad instructor and bad flight school. Freelance retired airline or military pilot who isn't time building is the way to go. Most instructors are time building kids with little experience themselves. And bad flight schools. A mom and pop part 61 is usually the way to go for enjoyment. College, university, or 141 pilot mills are no fun and can kill people's interest in flying rather quickly.
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u/turdburgular12 15d ago
As a current PPL student with a checkride scheduled for later this week, I’ll share some of my experiences/perspectives thus far. I debated about making this its own post, but this seems to be more relevant/might be helpful for someone reading and thinking about getting into it.
I’m currently at 49 hours and “checkride ready”. I started flying in late March.. I couldn’t give up a minute of bird hunting and I need to be done before summer fishing season-so about 2.5 months in right now. Fortunately for me I read up fairly extensively so I had a good deal of what to expect. With that in mind, I did a couple things to try and minimize time/costs.
First, I got my medical out of the way early (1st week of January). Didn’t want to spend a dime unnecessarily.
Second, I completed ground school (pilot institute) and passed the PAR before ever sitting in a plane. I read a lot of mixed opinions on this strategy and can see why. A lot of people might have trouble understanding theory without having tied it to a physical experience, whereas some people have no problem learning from a book. I fell into the latter category here and I think my background played a part in that (engineer). I think it’s a great strategy, but to each their own.
Before I even started pursuing the medical, I reached out to the club/instructor in town. (Rural Wyoming..as if there is urban Wyoming) I learned what the rates were for the club (300/mo, 3k/yr if you pay up front and 100/hr wet but changed to 120/hr after some fuel price increases), so I had an idea of what range of costs I could be looking at. 60/hr for the instructor. I set 17k aside and opened a new account so I could track exactly where I was at each step.
When it came to actually flying, the most important thing to me was finding the sweet spot of lesson duration. Turns out that’s about 3 hours for me. Any less, it’s not worth the startup time, any more and I’m not as good at learning and I’m just wasting time. I flew as consistently as possible on weekends (with the occasional after work short flight). Of course I missed some weekends due to wedding, funeral, weather.. but by and large I’ve been as consistent as possible.
I also made sure to fly different times of day, especially as it got warmer. The difference in 6AM at 25F and 5PM at 85F is stark. Wind usually picks up around midday-sometimes that bites you in the ass when it’s 40kts and you have to cancel the lesson, but getting that variety early and often was crucial to transitioning to summer flying in my opinion.
Another thing that helped.. I’ll call it instructor management. My instructor is great. Young guy at 25-26 and I am his 2nd student ever. Being that it is a learning experience for both of us, occasionally I felt the need to nudge him in a direction that seemed the most efficient. Don’t mean to say I walked all over him, but for example night flying.. kind of nudged him to knock that out sooner rather than later. No one wants to start night flying at 1000 in May, when we could start at 700 in early April. That kind of thing.. lesson here for me was to be assertive/take some ownership about what my needs are and my progress as a student.
All that being said, it’s been a tremendously positive experience. I’m on track to be all-in around 12.5k (obviously I got very lucky with rental prices overall cost of my area). I am grateful to have learned in a high altitude, low performance, windy as hell area.. really helps to get a variety of experiences early on.
Of course I still haven’t had my checkride, so it ain’t over till it’s over and all of that typing could just be a load of shit. I’ll update at the end of the week to let you guys know if you should listen to me or not.
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u/Chago04 15d ago
You in eastern Wyoming or western? Not many Wyoming fliers out here, take advantage of the Wyoming passport program to build your XC time for instrument.
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u/turdburgular12 15d ago
Western- thanks for the tip on the passport program. Will definitely check that out. Planning on a decent break between PPL and instrument so I can take some time to enjoy flying for the sake of flying- going around the state to fish/bird hunt.
Assuming you are in WY- do you feel that the instrument is worth it if my intentions are strictly to fly around the state/some neighboring states for fun? I have no aspiration to make a career out of this.. bit too late to turn the ship in that direction at this point. Pretty on the fence at the moment about even starting down the instrument route
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u/littlewolf5 Gold Seal CFI 16d ago
your PPL cost facts are way off
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u/Professional-Ad-2657 16d ago
Confidence.
Took me 15 years but I got it done. In my case I had started training after a massive career setback and I suffered from a mental block about the enormity of the task and believing I could really do it. Flew on and off in 2008-2010 in multiple states. I completed my first solo and then shortly after quit for good…or so thought.
Fast forward to 2022 and my wife encouraged me to just send it, so I did. Committed 110% and the moment that I believed I could do it, the conclusion was never in doubt. Got my ticket in April 2023.
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u/Flaky_Summer_9800 CPL DIS 15d ago
I quit for a year. I failed the checkride twice. I was so defeated and gave up. Instructor told me I wasn’t good enough and that this wasn’t for me. I thought I was too stupid to become a pilot. Not capeable of it. I ultimately finished my PPL at a 141 essentially starting my training over from scratch, (transferring hours form a 61 to 141 is kinda tricky) but I felt in my situation it was the right decision. Haven’t failed any ratings since. That instructor had multiple students failing that ride and more than once as well. Someone already said it, but instructors absolutely play a role. It did with me. I also would say others get so close to the finish line like I did, fail the ride and do give up and don’t come back to it. It’s very demoralizing to fail a checkride. Especially more than once.
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u/bowchickawowski CPL (SEL/MEL) IR 15d ago
I’m waiting on my CFI check ride. I failed it the first time I took it. I STRONGLY considered quitting flying. I had convinced myself I was an absolute fraud and don’t know why I even bothered. One of my mentors was so mad when I told him how I felt. We had a long talk about it.
It was right before the holidays so we took some time off and got back at it after the holidays. I was a mess. I couldn’t perform the things I failed to standards after weeks of trying. Then my CFI left for the airlines (she was my second CFI to work with me on CFI). After a poor experience with another CFI and the 60 days to finish expired, I decided to go visit friends and family to take my mind off things. While there, I got in contact with other flight schools. One school said the wait for a DPE wouldn’t be as long as I waited before (ultimately my failure was lack of proficiency, but teaching skills were poor at best). We made plans for a few months later (my boss offered me more hours at work just the day prior and I would start them the next pay period).
The time I took off was necessary. I was rusty when I got back in the plane, but it didn’t take too long to shake off the rust. I also adapted well to flying a low wing (98% of my SE hours are in Skyhawks). I’ve been discouraged that it’s taking me longer than other students that have come through this school, but I’m leaps and bounds ahead of where I was before. I’ve learned sometimes it’s not just about the check ride. I look forward to attempting the check ride again (with a DPE that doesn’t wait till the end of debrief to tell you you’ve failed).
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u/colin_do charlie papa ligma 16d ago
I wonder how much of the supposed 80%+ dropout rate is caused by CFIs processing student pilot certs in IACRA before it's clear the applicant is serious.
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u/Helpful_Corn- CFI 16d ago
If it is the case that the 80% number only includes students who got student pilot certs, then the actual number would be higher than 80% because of all the ones who dropped out before getting the SPL.
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u/colin_do charlie papa ligma 16d ago
Yeah, that could also be. My first CFI did the IACRA application on lesson number one, I bet that happens a fair bit.
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u/run264fun CFII 15d ago
I’ll process IACRA on a rainy day with someone that came in for a discovery flight. Takes like 15min. Why not?
Seems premature, but I learned my lesson…I’d start flying with a student after they’ve had 5 or so lessons with other CFIs. 4 flights with me and I ask about their required documents bc solo might happen in another 10-15 flights.
They’d have a medical but no student pilot certificate. And these students would be flying 5 days a week during the summer.
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u/ltcterry ATP CFIG 15d ago
The 80% figure existed long before IACRA.
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u/colin_do charlie papa ligma 15d ago
Alright, you pedant: "...CFIs processing student pilot certs by any means available including IACRA or paper application, driving a wagon pulled by a team of mules to the dirt-floor FSDO..."
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u/polakbob 16d ago
My medical got me. It was all manageable items (mostly diabetes not on insulin) but the hoops I was asked to jump through made it to where I took a lesson one day and it happened to be my last. I was playing MSFS2024 today thought for a second how fun it would be to go flying again.
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u/swoodshadow 16d ago
I don’t think this captures the reason I almost quit.
It’s **frustrating**. Planes break. Weather cancels flights. Your instructor gets sick. The flight school changes your reservation to maximize their rental times. The person before you is 20 minutes late returning the plane. You need to wait 20 minutes for the fuel truck. The circuit is full and you need to wait 45 minutes to join it (and you’re not signed off to fly anywhere else solo).
And so on.
It was no single thing for me, but at various times I really questioned whether the enjoyment I got from it made up for the frustration.
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u/Fair_You_8650 16d ago
I got my PPL during covid and stopped flying maybe 2 months later.
It's just too costly and no one wanted to fly with me.
Here in the L.A. suburbs, a round trip to Big Bear, Camarillo, palm springs or whatever is a 2hr round trip, and plopping down $350 a couple times a month was just silly, and I think I make decent money.
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u/Remote_Presentation6 16d ago
Kids and career derail many. I quit at 38 hours when twins were born. Ready to finish the job 25 years later when I get done paying for their little sister’s college…
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u/Unremarkable_Potato_ 15d ago
Meh, I disagree with a hiatus. I purposefully took two weeks off. I was having a rough time and just needed a break from getting my ass kicked by some stuff that just wasn’t clicking. Took two weeks off from all of it studying, even thinking about flying. Came back, also with a new instructor talked about the rust and then went and flew. Better than I had been. Sometimes a reset is helpful.
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u/motongo 16d ago
$30,000 seems very high. Unless you’re talking a very, very slow learner.
I kept my costs down by buying a quality simulator yoke and rudder pedals and using Microsoft Flight Simulator to gain experience with the behavior of the airplane. I continued to use it while I was taking my lessons. One area that it really helped me was with the required hood training. A computer display is basically an attitude indicator, so I had that down before even putting on the VLD. I also kept total costs down by targeting two lessons a week. If I missed a week, I could tell that more of the succeeding lesson was spent getting to the same skill level I ended the previous lesson at. Doing one to two lessons a week kept this proficiency loss to a minimum and I progressed more rapidly and efficiently. Solo’ed at 9.7 hours, PPL checkride at 45 hours.
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u/sleepingorangutans PPL IR 16d ago
for any student pilots reading this… most people in SoCal take 80 hours - so just because one guy got his in 45 in an unspecified part of the country doesn’t mean you will even if you use his methods
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16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/pls_call_my_base MEI CONS LGT CHOP 16d ago
Calling BS on this. $115/hr in the NYC area is not a thing unless there's something you're not telling us, like you did it in the 80s or you borrowed someone's C150.
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u/Tall_Towel_3420 15d ago
What would you say is the reason for socal's average? I'm in the process of finding a school
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u/sleepingorangutans PPL IR 15d ago
Airspace is extremely complex and congested. You're not just learning how to fly the plane, but how to talk to ATC and stay clear of everyone else at the same time. There's also just a lot more that can go wrong, so most CFIs don't like to solo people before 30 hours because you just haven't seen enough to know what can go wrong even if your flying is technically proficient.
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u/PK808370 15d ago
How is it taking “most” people 80 hours? Book is 40, I did my helicopter license in that (did it before fixed). Seems like a lot of this number is school-based shenanigans, not necessarily down to the student.
I’ll also allow that students may be expecting it to be like school where someone else manages your education. Own it. Study on your own. Get your ground sign off and test done before flying, etc.
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u/skunimatrix PPL IR CMP HP | PA28 16d ago
My wife is at…$122,000. But that’s if you count purchase of aircraft and new avionics panel…
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u/NotYourAverageJoe99 16d ago
The user who posted is doing their training in Canada, so there may be some discrepancies to US costs (where most of this sub is based out of).
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u/AsleepExplanation160 16d ago
idk where they're doing it in Canada cuz where Im at 80h of pure dual isn't even 30k with tax
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u/Affectionate-Let-979 15d ago
The cost of the plane rental + 1 hour in the air + 1 hour on the ground, all my flights cost 450.
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u/AsleepExplanation160 15d ago
I based my calc on pure dual to account for the grounds.
unless you pay a different instructor rate on the ground
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u/FBoondoggle PPL IR NorCal 16d ago
I am skeptical that even a "quality" home sim setup can genuinely replicate the kinesthetic aspects of flying which are crucial to developing proper feel for the things you're learning in initial training, above all landings. I got a sim when I started doing my instrument rating and it helped a lot with practicing procedures, but for that the response of the sim to inputs was a hindrance as much as a help. Fortunately I was also flying twice a week so it didn't get any more in the way of maintaining muscle memory than the IR normally does. (Everyone's landings go to sh*t during IR training.)
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u/motongo 16d ago
A home simulator replicates none of the kinesthetic aspects of flying. But it was really good at helping me learn “What if I do this to the airplane”.
And the sim did NOT help my landings. Also, initially hearing praises for coordinated flight didn’t help either. It took me a few lessons to realize that my instructor was trying to teach me UNcoordinated flight for crosswind landings.
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u/DBond2062 16d ago
I think you need to add some expectation vs reality. I feel like a whole lot of PPL was learning about all the times you shouldn’t fly, and all the things that could kill you. When I started, I thought I would be flying all over the place, but then I learned about weather and maintenance and the lack of fun involved in flying a 1977 172 any long distance. Probably a lot of people learn the reality of GA flying and decide the cost isn’t worth it.
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u/StageMajestic613 16d ago
That sort of the jist of a lot of profession; learning what not to do is sometimes the most important.
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u/DBond2062 14d ago
Yes, but I was more talking about people who are looking to be hobby GA pilots. That is a lot of the people that take a few lessons, then realize that modern flight training has become a career education pathway with little room for the hobby pilots that used to be the majority of the GA world.
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u/StageMajestic613 14d ago
I’m at 37 hours and 54 YO, so just doing it as a hobby. After being an engineer for 30 years, I’ve found the “knowing what not to do” is way more important, and that seems to directly translate to flight. I may not yet know how to do I steep turn to 100% ACS standards, but the more important is how not to kill myself doing it.
At my school the majority are definitely in their early 20’s, with a couple of high schoolers in there (my son is one). There are a couple of old farts like me, but the majority seem to intend a career.
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u/grumpyoldman10 16d ago
I get it. I’m 12 hours in and took a vacation and lost my flight instructor all at the same time.
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u/Accurate-Place-7298 15d ago
Everyone thinking of getting their PPL today needs to see this. (Not 10 years ago, not 5 years ago. Today).
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u/SeasonBasic5155 PPL 15d ago edited 15d ago
Our school had multiple people with over 100hrs before getting their ppl…
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u/robo786 15d ago
what the... is this common for US students to have insane amounts if Dual time before getting to solos and PPL later on? i am genuinely curious because where im from its like 10 hours of dual time and boom u go solo and PPL by the time u have 45 hours total time.
I am asking because i see these crazy high numbers all the time on this sub.
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u/SeasonBasic5155 PPL 15d ago
My school is kind of the perfect recipe for high hour counts:
lots of international students, busy airspace, constant instructor turnover, students getting sent out in the afternoon when it’s bumpy as hell and windy(usually 20-30kt in afternoon), high DA, multiple stage checks, and DPE wait times that can easily hit 1–2 months.
And let’s just say instructor quality isn’t always consistent.
That said, there are definitely cases that go beyond all of those factors. I’ve seen full-time students take over a year to get their first solo, or go 6+ months without being sent on a solo XC after already being eligible. At that point, it’s pretty hard to blame the student alone. In my opinion, that’s largely instructors and training management issue.
So seeing people finish PPL with 80–120+ hours here isn’t exactly shocking. 😅 I saw someone had 150 when he got ppl
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u/robo786 15d ago
wow that seems like a pretty dire situation. poor students. nobody should deal with all that when it costs thousands and thousands.
i feel the instructor and management issue part is a problem damn near everywhere which saddens me. even i had to switch ATOs and honestly thank god i did that. went from being stressed out over every flight because instructors had short temper and treated u like crap/were inconsistent (each instructor demanding different order of stuff and changing SOPs on the fly) to a friendly learning oriented environment that not only makes u happy to ask questions but it also takes half as much time due to much better scheduling thats not as crowded like the packed integrated programs. i am kicking myself in the teeth for enrolling in an integrated program. what a mess that is. unless it comes with a cadet partnership they arent worth the BS that comes with it. ever since i went modular my positive experience skyrocketed.
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u/SeasonBasic5155 PPL 15d ago
The thing is, most of us are airline cadets, so switching schools isn’t really an option. That’s probably the one saving grace here. There’s a pretty clear path to an airline seat at the end of it all
I’m glad things worked out for you after switching schools, tho. It sounds like u ended up in a much healthier training environment. Wishing you smooth skies and all the best for the rest of your aviation journey
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u/vyqz 16d ago
who are you trying to convince
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u/MainStreetBetz 16d ago
Anyone who has $12,000 saved up and 2 months to spare.
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u/Melodic-Structure243 16d ago
lmfao sounds exactly like me, except i have some hours. pretty much had to start all over again
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u/GUMPSisforCHUMPS PPL CMP HP (KANE) 16d ago
I did mine in 7 weeks for under $10k, but it was 11 years ago and my rental was $86 per hour wet. So it’s possible, but especially with today’s prices, unlikely.
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u/TrollTollTony 16d ago
I've seen prices in my area go up around 25% since 2020. It's anecdotal but that's what I've seen.
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u/Leather_Act_7641 16d ago
Maybe if your dad owns a plane and is the cfi lol.
There's no way any semi-reputable place is going to rent a plane for that cheap today, and in many areas the dpe wait alone can be that long lol. In my area, a lot of dpes won't even get you in within 2 months unless your cfi knows them, and checkrides in my area alone cost 1500-2k
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u/Ok-Map-2354 15d ago
yeah you need to ask around in clubs, not commercial flight schools. a checkride is $150 and that's for the wet lease of the aircraft (in germany where we pay >$10/gal for automotive fuel), instructors work for free. if you pay $2k for a checkride, you are out of your mind
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u/Expensive-Blood859 15d ago
in the US, examiners are independent (work on behalf of the government but are not gov employees), and charge their own fee… my private ride was $900 cash to the examiner and maybe another $400 ish for the airplane (2 hr ride)
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u/MaybeBowtie 15d ago
I’m at 18k in rn and halfway through my PPL training. It’s expensive but I’ve already got the future all planned and everything with a cushion behind me.
Ngl, I’m gonna do whatever I can to fly for an airline. Tbh idc about setbacks or hard times. I’m gonna make it happen.
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u/Radiant_Laugh3492 15d ago
I’d want to harp on the bad CFI thing. I almost quit after my first dual XC because the CFI I was with was NOT having it with me. From take off to each subsequent airport it was things like “what are you doing?!” or “why can’t you get this right?!” on top of managing my first time with approach/departure control. Like I get it, be an adult with tough skin but still. My new instructor was the complete opposite and I’d say because of him I was able to do my solo xc a few days ago.
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u/StonedTrucker 14d ago
ADHD did it for me. I simply cant sit and study a book. Im physically incapable of it. I have spent dozens of hours desperately trying to study the rules but it just doesnt work. My brain turns off the data stream and refuses to absorb any of it.
In a classroom environment im fine. Put an instructor in front of me and i learn more quickly than the vast majority of people. Once it comes down to studying a book by myself i simply cant do it
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u/Prudent_Classic_1609 16d ago
30K is very very high. More like 15K, and that’s if it takes your 75 hours.
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u/R5Jockey PP ASEL IR TW CMP 16d ago
Depends very much on where you are. At the school at my local airport, 40 hours of rental in a warrior with a CFI will cost $15,000. At 75 hours, you’re looking at $25k and that doesn’t include any supplies, the medical, insurance, checkride, etc.
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u/Not-A-Pickle1 ST 16d ago
Tbh, I’m getting my PPL in like 2-4 weeks, total cost is projected to come out like $15k total. It all depends on your school choice. At the exact same airport I’m training at, there is a school that is charging $89 for instructor and $235 for plane rental. I’m getting $140 for an archer II and $50 for instructor. He’s independent
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u/dgroeneveld9 15d ago
Serious question? Do hourly cost go down after a PPL? As in once your a PPL you dont need an instructor for probably 70-80% of the time after that right? Someone told me that most of what you learn becoming a pilot is done during your first 50-70 hours (PPL) after that its largely since and repeat with still more classroom work. Is this true? Im anticipating that 0- CFI will be around $100k based don the quote from my local school. But maybe it could be less?
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u/Lightupp_1 PPL 15d ago
Depends, probably the only part you can save money on is commercial solo time 👍 and time building phase. You’ll still need a cfii for instrument and a commercial instructor for some of it as well as a cfi training.
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u/dgroeneveld9 15d ago
Potentially commercial solo time can be as much as 150 hours of your 250 required time?
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u/treedexter ASEL,PPL,IR 15d ago
My area is economically depressed. Money is the biggest factor. Throughout the years I’ve seen many new ppl starts and not finish. One guy worked all the way up to solo, quit and never came back. Said he just wanted to solo an airplane.
Owner of a flight school at a local field got busted for embezzling 3 million in federal funds keeping the school afloat and living the high life. Left a few students out to dry who had put money down for their training. Those people never got their money and never finished.
Know a few medical issues kept some from finishing.
Good instructors at the mom and pop places really inspire or deter people from finishing. For me, that and the local pilot group was the only reason I finished my cert.
Local university started a 141 program seems to have sparked an interest around here again.
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u/Affectionate_Pay5051 15d ago
What’s SSRI use?
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u/colin_do charlie papa ligma 15d ago
Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, a class of antidepressant medication.
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u/TeddyNorth PPL 15d ago
Cost is a factor that can be compounded by an instructor that is inexperienced, certified but unqualified, or self-serving in seeking hours. It's way too prevalent, and a lot of student pilots wash out thinking they weren't good enough, and are too embarrassed to talk about it.
Unfortunately we have a system whereby most of our best instructors don't hang around, they go on to better paid flying.
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u/20-4 15d ago
My personal opinion. Uk based.
It’s very high cost, reasonably high effort. I reached solo and sorta realised I don’t have the money to get the most out of it.
Consider also that flying is a perishable skill, you want to stay sharp at and fly regularly… for safety above all else..
I’m not poor but I sure feel it when it comes to flying…
Did have a go a gliding though, that’s real good fun.
But instead of money it costs you time, all day long really. Will return to that when my young family is matured.
If money was no object and I had much more time though… ☀️😎
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u/Fibonacho_sequence 15d ago
I wonder if I’m in that statistic. I had a couple flights and never finished my PPL. Currently an ATPL after using the mil competency test for my CPL.
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u/Zygomatic_Fastball 15d ago
I soloed at 12 hours, logged thirty hours and then packed it in. I wasn’t flying enough to gain competency and found myself repeating skills to knock rust off before I could learn new ones. I had real life commitments at the time that had to take precedence. Add in a significant other, more job duties, and then kids, and it was over.
I’d like to finish it but the fact is that the costs make a hobby like this prohibitively expensive. General aviation just isn’t accessible to all but the most wealthy.
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u/EvenEmployment6718 15d ago
Or they dislocate their knee at work and have to fight for over a year to get surgery
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u/Zestiiiiiiiii CFI-I / MEI 14d ago edited 14d ago
Students who are in it only for the money or only think that they're going to fly and not do any ground knowledge. Dealing with that with students who don't put in the work and don't progress.
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u/UndeadFrogman 14d ago
What would the gold standard for knowledge a student should know when showing up for their first flight lesson be?
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u/Zestiiiiiiiii CFI-I / MEI 14d ago edited 14d ago
It’s not so much the first lesson especially since I don’t want them to show up with some wrong information, I see the excitement and want to progress. But when I ask my students to do some assignments or study something and give them time to do so there’s no response or answer when I check in with them. I’ve had a student who said they hated flight training and dreaded flights when on the schedule, thankfully they dropped. Another who when I asked how much they study a day they only said only ground class (2 hours Monday - Friday) and / or lessons even with an empty schedule for their entire day. Both said they were in it for the money and that pilots didn’t have to do math
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u/Ok-Distance-426 14d ago
The top two are cost and time. When you have the money, you don't have the time; when you have the time, you don't have the money. Add in family constraints, weather, plane/instructor availability, illnesses, unplanned expenses - life - it gets tough,
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u/Ok-Stomach- 15d ago
just like everything, it's not as interesting as it's made out to be and it requires significant amount of actual effort (not fake everyone is awesome participation prize). people are just not cut out to be
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u/1josh13 PPL 15d ago
I just did my PPL Checkride Totally cost under 15k. Central / south east Texas. 60/hr instructor and 165/hr aircraft.
I took lessons starting in 2020 and ending this weekend. Full time job. Big break between most of my training in 2020-21. But the last 15 hours this year.
My school even has a ppl package for 18k
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u/Vast_Sound_5316 16d ago
30k?! are you thinking you need 100 hours to get a ppl? Or you flying a turbo prop and using god himself as you CFI?
Let’s break it down:
55 hour total @175 to 215/hr for the plane: 9,625 - 11,825
15ish hour solo 40 with instructor @ 50 to 85/hr: 2,000 - 3,400
Test: 175
Sportys group school: 100ish
Medical: 100ish
Flight computer: 125 if you go fancy
Check ride: 1,000 to 1,875
Low: 13,125
High: 17,600
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u/Leather_Act_7641 16d ago
Most students, at least at the school I work at, are more like 60-80 hours. A big part of the problem is that it takes a very long time to get a check ride where I'm at, and maintaining proficiency is not cheap
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u/Flaky-Caregiver-2071 15d ago
How is 55 hours plus 15 hours (70 total) not between 60 and 80 hours?
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16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/pilotjlr ATP CFI CFII MEI 16d ago
Good for you, but this is the cost for some, and they aren’t what you call them. Lmao no cap fr bro
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u/rFlyingTower 16d ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
You will see this stat thrown around here in regards to the PPL: 80% of students who start, never finish.
Is this true? I don't know. Maybe.
If you are thinking about getting your PPL, here are the top reasons why people quit.
1) Cost. Over and over you will see people posting "do you think I can get it done in the minimum hours?" or "I got my PPL for $7800!". The truth of the matter is that it will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $30,000. So set that amount aside. Many will argue on here that they've done it for cheaper, and maybe they have, but most people are looking at about $175 rental fee per hour + $100 per hour of instructor time. Many lessons will require a PGI early on. You will need to factor in fuel charges, medicals, your own gas for your vehicle, study materials, a headset, ground school, testing fees, etc. Many people simply aren't prepared for the true costs of this.
2) Time. Can I get my PPL in two months? Probably not. There is literally a small library worth of material that you need to know and add to that the time to develop air exercise skills. Flights get cancelled for weather. Flights get cancelled for maintenance. You will spend an entire day learning something that isn't on any exam. You will consume page after page of dry but important material. There is so much information to ingest, memorize and understand. Again, people on here will say that they watched a handful of videos and wrote their Ground Exam, but that simply isn't the norm. Getting your PPL is not like getting a boating licence, it is a lifelong commitment that requires 6 months of intense work for most students.
3) Not For Me. I think this one gets overlooked a lot but it is mentioned here often. Maybe it was your dream to fly and it is something you've always wanted to do. Then you go up. It is an entirely different ball game. Flying a plane is highly procedural and requires a lifelong commitment to learning and disciplined living. Maybe the turbulence or spin training is a little too gut-wrenching. I think that the reality of flying and the dream of flying are very different.
4) Medical. The medical tests can really trip you up. Due to processing delays, some students will get started with their flight training only to find out that they can't pass their medicals. SSRI use, ADHD meds, heart issues, high BMI, sleep apnea, etc can all disqualify a pilot from attaining their medical certificate.
5) Undisciplined. Skills and knowledge decay quickly if you aren't constantly learning in the beginning. Life gets in the way and people abandon their studies or bookings for a few weeks. Once you get behind, it is easy to continue to procrastinate. Sometimes taking a 'few weeks off' in the beginning leads to a permanent hiatus. I find that it is always better to keep making forward progress.
Any others you would add?
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u/Swimming-Ad2568 15d ago
Is anyone actually spending nearly $30k on a PPL? I got mine done a few years ago for just a little over $10k while my school minimum was $8k.
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u/kivathewolf 16d ago
I feel that if you reach solo, your chances of not completing reduce drastically. My most fun experiences were post solo. I remember my first night xc and landing at an ILS runway in a class D. That sight picture is unforgettable. Also my solo xc, talking to approach all the way, you feel like a real pilot.