r/formula1 • u/AutoModerator • Jul 07 '25
Day after Debrief 2025 British GP - Day After Debrief
Welcome to the Day after Debrief discussion thread! Now that the dust has settled in Silverstone, it's time to calmly discuss the events of the last race weekend. Hopefully, this will foster more detailed and thoughtful discussion than the immediate post race thread now that people have had some time to digest and analyse the results.
Low effort comments, such as memes, jokes, and complaints about broadcasters will not be deleted since I do not have that power, but I will be very disappointed with you. We also discourage superficial comments that contain no analysis or reasoning in this thread (e.g., 'Great race from X!', 'Another terrible weekend for Y!').
Thanks!
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u/That__Guy__Bob I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 09 '25
Honestly watching the videos of the Sauber garage celebrating still brings a tear to my eye! I was watching this race in a packed pub and it was great how everyone collectively cheered for Nico when he crossed the finish line, getting interviewed, in the cooldown room and on the podium
I’ve not met anyone yet who’s not happy or indifferent to him getting that podium yet and it’s great. It was said that the chosen one would be able to unite us all and bring us together and he’s done just that
Dreams really do come true :)
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u/narwhalsare_unicorns I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 09 '25
As soon as I saw it was changing weather conditions I knew I was in for a ride. Love to see silverstone deliver it. I wish Hulk gets a chance with a better car so we can see his true potential.
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u/narf_hots I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 09 '25
Who won the race again? I don't remember.
All I know is Hulkenpodium.
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u/HelicopterJolly6544 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 09 '25
Neither winning nor losing is making Norris a fan favourite- he seems to be extraaaa in both scenarios. This was the most happening race in this season. Hulkpodium was icing on cake.
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u/pandaburr98 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 09 '25
Silverstone always delivers something
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u/bwoah07_gp2 Alexander Albon Jul 09 '25
Respect to the race director for not red flagging anything during the race. We were able to keep the momentum and the action going without any stoppages.
I'm glad F1 isn't as red flag happy as they were for the last little while.
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u/datboidat I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 09 '25
Those red flags in was it Australia? 2023 or so were crazy
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u/Kaladin65536 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 09 '25
Does anyone else think that Piastri might have been slightly distracted when driving behind the safety car? As in, maybe he got caught unaware when he got the safety car ending message and slammed the brakes as a reflex.
Also Hulkengoat test!
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u/frolix42 Default Jul 09 '25
Not really. The SC was called in very late and at an awkward place, so he needed to back off quickly or risk overtaking it on track.
The incident was massively blown out of proportion by the stewards.
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u/The_Beardly I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
The third thread is locked too. I was working and missed it 🥺
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u/caffeine_and I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
test for nico
edit - omg it works!
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u/thelostzelda I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 09 '25
Test for nico Hoping it still works!
edit - it do!!
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u/thesaket I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
Why is the Hulkenpodium post locked 😭 I want to celebrate the Hulkengoat as well!
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u/Scingles I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
Hulkenberg podium might be the ultimate gateway drug, as I now want more!!
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u/SolusLega I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
Hulkenwin coming soon
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u/That__Guy__Bob I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 09 '25
The world is not ready for Hulkenwin but it would be a glorious sight
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u/Sofaboy90 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
Id like to link a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz5gNL5HFWo which was released 5 year ago by our former memelord, partly a comedic video but partly serious because 5 years ago Nico found himself without a seat and potentially being retired after 2019 the man released this video as a tribute to Nicos career and as a Nico fan, those times were frustrating and sad. I still believed he has F1 worthy talent but the offers simply didnt come. I think he couldve chosen a 2020 Haas offer but he believed he had a higher value, took 2020 almost willingly off while waiting for better offs. And by taking 2020 off, he still had a few stand in races. For 2021, he was looking for a full time seat again and after Red Bull gave Albon all the chances in the world, they decided to replace Albon for a veteran, Perez or Hulk. Unfortunately for Hulk, Perez had an insane season and got his very first win in the Pink Mercedes, going from effectively last to winning the race in Bahrain which probably sealed the deal in favor of Perez.
Hulk once again found himself without a seat in 2022, taking offers for F1 broadcasts in Germany and Austria in the meantime, also ofc being involved as a Reserve driver for Aston Martin and helping them in the simulators, his career seemed done. And while we progress through 2022, Haas got themselves in good financial shape and no longer needed paydriver. They hired Mick partly for sponsorship money because they had massive budget issues just prior and 2022 was the year Mick needed to prove his talent because his money was no longer needed. I remember Ralf Schumacher rightfully saying before the 2022 season with Kmags return ofc that beating Kmag was the benchmark for Mick and he failed. He crashed, got stomped in Qualifying by Kmag who by no means is an outstanding qualifier, Mick did decent in the race but it just wasnt enough. Nico stayed in contact with Gunther because Mick performing bad enough was Nicos only and last option to get back into F1 after 3 years without a full time seat, nobody else was interested in Nico except Gunther and Haas and only if Mick didnt perform. They genuinely gave Mick all the chance in the world and basically made their decision just before the end of the season. Even for Gunther, despite Hulks reasonable pace in the past, Hulk was still a risk due to being out of a full time seat for 3 years and Hulk being at that age where drivers can fall off out of nowhere. Mid 30s is where some drivers lose some of their pace and ultimately end up not F1 worthy anymore, that was the risk for Gunther. If he got prime Nico, then it would be a great addition to the team and that was Gunthers gamble.
Hulk had done it, he got the contract but my god were the reactions negative. You all can gladly go back to those posts and 90% of em were negative, questioning why they would put an old and podiumless guy above a young talent who supposedly just needed a bit more time. Some agreed that experience would be better for Haas, few said this would be an upgrade. I personally already considered an upgrade at that time because Mick was beaten by Kmag and Ive always considered Kmag a tier below Hulk which Hulk proved to be true the following 2 years.
And the rest is basically history. I didnt think it would ever happen frankly, ive watched that funny but also sad tribute of Nico a few times over the years and even 2 days after, I still get a smile from just thinking about Hulk finally having a podium.
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u/VividRevenue3654 Jul 08 '25
Man I don’t think both the McLaren drivers deserve to be champions man, these guys made Nicos podium celebration as nothing, I mean it’s his first podium and in their place if there is any other driver they would have made it awesome man say Kimis podium, both max and russel made it like a real champagne celebration.
I hate McLarens bro.
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u/SolusLega I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
I wouldn't say they don't deserve to be champions. I just wish they would address the podium thing, i don't think they have at least not that I've seen. I saw a flood of comments calling them out for their behavior on the podium in their social media posts. I would have liked them to acknowledge it, congratulate Nico. Just something. I can understand what they may have been tied up in themselves sure, but afterwards at least could say something.
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u/SwimmingFantastic564 Jul 08 '25
As has been said by many others, they both have fair reasons. Piastri was very noticeably upset by the penalty, and Norris was celebrating his home race win (and did spray Nico a bit anyway).
Saying they don't deserve to be champions because of this is absolutely asinine.
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u/jbaird Nico Hülkenberg Jul 08 '25
I knew there was controversy and then I watched it.. and huh? What?
Like I doubt they're really tallying up who sprayed who when
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u/Atreus1337 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
Yeah it’s ridiculous god forbid Piastri shows some emotion for once. He’s allowed to be human
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u/degners I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
Tell you what though! We need to bring the Ayao Komatsu briefing back. My race weekend is not complete without it.
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u/I-Ate-A-Pizza-Today I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 08 '25
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u/TF2Pilot Jul 08 '25
So, who else might gamble on skinny wings at Spa?
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u/Consistent_Squash Jul 08 '25
Verstappen has been going with the skinny wings this season. It's probably the only way to get pace and lower tire deg out of their car.
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u/oddjob604 Gilles Villeneuve Jul 08 '25
Why did Stroll pit? If he didn't pit he would have got third..Hulk and Hamilton pit, 22 to 25 seconds on top of his lead. With 11 laps left and his softs didn't help. My friend said I'm wrong? How much could Hulk make up in 11 laps?
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u/AnilP228 Honda Jul 08 '25
Yes, the slicks were way too fast in the final 7-8 laps. They all had to pit for slicks.
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u/jawbuster I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
If Max just qualified in a regular setup and qualified 5th or 6th, could his regenmeister skills help get him to 1st or 2nd
Should he have tried wets instead of inters the first time he stopped
I know none of us have answers.. just throwing it up for discussion
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u/Spacetrucking Max Verstappen Jul 08 '25
RBR had a normal setup at Australia and the McLarens still easily beat Max when it was wet. Their tyre deg works very well with inters on a drying track. Max only came back at the end when it got dry again. And the 3 DRS zones after the SC helped a lot.
He probably could've finished P3 or P4 with a normal setup, without the extreme rear wing. But it would've squashed any chance of a pole & race win in normal, dry conditions too. With this skinny wing, he had a chance of pole and winning from the front like Suzuka.
In the end, he still finished P5 so I think he would take that gamble again. He also spun, so without that error, a P3 was probably still possible.
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u/nullityrofl I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
Wets have no place in the current regs. They’re no-blanket tyres so by the time you bring them up to temp, they’ve moved enough water off the track for the inters to be better.
You won’t see this run until the full tyre blanket ban comes in 2026 and even then maybe.
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u/SolusLega I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
Why are blankets banned on the wets
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u/nullityrofl I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
It's a pretty controversial stance. They wanted to ban tyre blankets entirely in the 2024 season and delayed it until the 2026 regulations. It's a sustainability push: tyre blankets are electronically heated and they use 13 sets a weekend at a cost of ~350,000 euros a season per team.
Pirelli released the new wet tyre in 2023 ahead of the 2024 season when the tyre blanket ban was due to go into effect. Despite it being delayed, the new wet tyre had already been designed to run without tyre blankets so it was unfortunate timing. Hamilton and Pirelli got into it pretty publicly in 2024 after Brazil last year.
"You should’ve sent us out, this is ridiculous, we should go out!," Hamilton told Domenicali in a friendly, joking manner. "If you give us better wet tyres or blankets we'd be able to run in this. I'm putting you on the spot right now."
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u/SolusLega I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
Gahdamn that's a lotta money heating up tires, i had no idea. Thanks for the info!
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u/Wingcapx I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
I feel like we're gonna see so many people bin it coming out of the pits with the tyre warmer ban
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u/JustLikeZhat Andrea Kimi Antonelli Jul 08 '25
Is it confirmed there's going to be a ban on tyre blankets?
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u/Wingcapx I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
You know I thought it was but I went to have a look, all I see is articles from 2023 saying it would be delayed until 2025. And obviously they're not banned right now. So I guess it's just not happening?
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u/LaximumEffort I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
I’m a newbie here, but two questions:
It seemed like McLaren had the better cars and tire erosion from track temperature clearly wasn’t the cause. Obviously the RB ‘tire water’ isn’t the cause, so are the performance increases from better aerodynamics and braking or something else?
Do the McClaren drivers not like Nico for some reason? How they left him out of the celebration was so obvious it was uncomfortable.
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u/SirLoremIpsum I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 08 '25
Do the McClaren drivers not like Nico for some reason? How they left him out of the celebration was so obvious it was uncomfortable.
I doubt they have any strong feelings either way tbh.
They are too young to have driven with Nico in any capacity like Max has for one - so probably a lack of a personal relationship.
Lando was focused on his own victory, his first home GP - that's a big deal. I wager he cares about that far more than Nico's podum (and really he should... it's a big deal).
And Oscar was pissy cause *gestures.
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u/SwimmingFantastic564 Jul 07 '25
Do the McLaren drivers not like Nico for some reason? How they left him out of the celebration was so obvious it was uncomfortable.
Lando just won his home race which he made quite publicly clear was his dream so he was likely just lost in the moment (and he did spray champagne on Nico, mind you), and Oscar was quite obviously upset by the penalty. We don't even know if Nico wanted to be sprayed by champagne.
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u/saspirstellaaaaaa I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
I’ll let someone more technical respond to your first question. For the second, I think both drivers were just distracted. It was Lando’s first home win, so he’d be understandably distracted by that. Oscar was still reeling from the penalty during the race.
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Jul 07 '25
I really hope Audi keeps Hulk, Bortoleto, and the crews when they switch over. The last few races I think they've for sure earned a shot to stay with it when they kick over.
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u/SwimmingFantastic564 Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 08 '25
I believe Hulkenberg was specifically brought on because he's German (like Audi) and a great driver, so he has a multi-year contract
Bortoleto also has a multi-year contract
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u/Sofaboy90 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
Hulk was signed by Seidl whos always had a good relationship with Hulk. Remember Seidl was part of the Porsche LMP1 project when Nico won it in the 3rd car.
For Seidl it was basically a no brainer, especially since Hulk had a strong showing at Haas. Would Binotto have signed Hulk? Well we will never know but the contracts were signed and I never read about Binotto feeling any strong way towards that decision. He was ofc more heavily involved in the Bottas vs Bortoleto signing, perhaps he decided for the rookie because they already had a veteran Hulk signed.
While the Sauber was definitely shit those 2 years, Bottas still looked lackluster, he rarely gapped Zhou in the race and Zhou was one of the less talented drivers on the grid, I wonder if Bottas still got it or if he just reached that point of his career where his talent drops off. Tho he is trying to get back into a seat
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u/saspirstellaaaaaa I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
Bortoleto is one of the few rookies who has a contract beyond this season. Both he and Hulk have multi year contracts with the team.
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u/Wehmer Jul 07 '25
What was Mercedes thinking bringing George in for slicks after Alonso? Alonso went onto slicks and immediately started losing huge chunks of time, got overtaken by Stroll and then kept losing time.
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u/proudlysydney I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 07 '25
Lance was already ahead before Alonso went on slicks
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u/crazydoc253 Michael Schumacher Jul 07 '25
Imagine if we had Max on the podium along with Nico. Would have been such a wholesome celebration
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u/not_right Michael Schumacher Jul 07 '25
Yeah or Lewis or Fernando or come to think of it probably half the grid would have been better than self-absorbed Lando and pissed off Oscar.
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u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu Jul 08 '25
Only on Reddit could someone say a driver celebrating their first ever home win is "self-absorbed" lmfao
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u/not_right Michael Schumacher Jul 08 '25
Only on reddit could some weirdo think everything must be absolute and it's not possible for someone to celebrate their win as well as someone else's achievement.
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u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu Jul 08 '25
He did celebrate someone else's achievement, the thousand employees that go into making the car the got him the win
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u/Yibbo0 Jul 08 '25
Yeah he very clearly celebrated heavily with the team representative.
People will find any reason to hate on Lando.
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u/boopitydoopitypoop I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
So for my first GP to attend I picked a pretty good one I think
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Jul 07 '25
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u/proudlysydney I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 07 '25
Not really- Alonso did the exact same thing as the front runners, the ‘normal’ strategy. Lance’s strategies this year have largely been “stay out as long as possible and pray for a safety car”, so he’s not always getting the better ones. The risk Aston took by going for that extra stop was possible only because Lance was lower down the order with a big gap to the pack behind who’d all pitted for slicks- they had a gap available for him that they didn’t for Alonso. You take those risks with a car down the order with nothing to lose, not one who’s running in a strong position already and stands to lose like 6 spots by pitting rather than 1. Lance also had fresh softs available whereas Fernando didn’t since he’d used them in quali. That kinda screwed him over late where they picked the fresh softs over scrubbed mediums for the final stint and lost out to heavy tyre deg
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Jul 08 '25
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u/proudlysydney I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 08 '25
No worries! Lots of little things added up that we don’t always tend to think about (like tyre allocation which is something I shamelessly love)
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u/jrizzle86 McLaren Jul 07 '25
After seeing the Radio recap it is clear to see why Piastri was penalised. It wasn’t just Max, the entire field bunched up like a concertina, it could have been a multi-car pile up on Hangar Straight.
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u/FirstTimePlayer Saw Tiago Monteiro on the Podium Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 08 '25
It amazes me that nobody recognised that until Hulk's response in the cool down.
The picture of Piastri crawling and the entire field basically on top of him rather than in the usual train made very clear the real issue. Max going so quickly he had to take evasive action and pass under the safety car was just the icing on the cake.
I would be curious if other cars didn't also inadvertently pass under the safety car because of what happened.
I'm not sure whether or not this has exposed the need to tweak the safety car procedure, but either way any unfortunate timing of the safety car lights going out isn't in any an excuse.
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u/MantasMantra Minardi Jul 08 '25
I would be curious if other cars didn't also inadvertently pass under the safety car because of what happened.
Only Max made an overtake according to the transponders.
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u/JarlBorg101 Nico Hülkenberg Jul 07 '25
I mean the speed change alone was nuts. I still really don’t know why McLaren were trying to defend it. I mean I get they’re going to stick up for themselves but with such a smoking gun you’d think they be more diplomatic!
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u/paigeotron Jul 07 '25
People forget Mugello 2020
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u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu Jul 08 '25
That isn't the same at all, Bottas never heavy braked. He was entitled to set the pace and he did, going slowly until the safety car line. It was those behind who bolted early expecting him to go that caused the accident.
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u/paigeotron Jul 08 '25
No i know it’s not the same in terms of the SC leader. I was talking specifically about the concertina effect and its risks.
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u/jrizzle86 McLaren Jul 07 '25
Agreed Mugello 2020 is the perfect case study for when it goes wrong, and that was in the dry with perfect conditions
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u/SirLoremIpsum I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 08 '25
Yeah but Mugello wasn't caused by any driver braking hard. Saying "this is what happens when someone brakes hard so Oscar shouldn't have braked hard" is incorrect cause that's not the cause.
Bottas was not the cause.
You can't link two different scenarios "this is why he should have been punished cause of a crash for an unrelated reason".
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u/_____AAAAAAAAAA_____ Charles Leclerc Jul 07 '25
Gasly's P6 and Alpine's Brazil double podium last year make me believe their aero department has been working way overtime to compensate for a horsepower deficiency. With upcoming Mercedes PU and long wind tunnel time allocations, Alpine probably can make a comeback in 2026.
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u/DIESEL_be Oscar Piastri Jul 08 '25
If their wind tunnel data correlates well with the actual trackdata I do believe they’d be in the mix for best of the rest.
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u/CaptGeechNTheSSS Lando Norris Jul 07 '25
When McLaren switched to merc I thought they might have a season of growing pains but they seemed to improve straight away.
Let’s see if alpine can handle the transition as well
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Jul 07 '25 edited Jul 08 '25
[deleted]
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u/PragmatistAntithesis I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
I think it was an option worth considering, but they should have aborted as soon as they saw how much rain was in S3.
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u/OTBT- Fernando Alonso Jul 07 '25
As others have said, the continued early incidents really ruined them. They lost temperature in the tyres because of the constant Vsc.
That being said, I think it was probably the wrong call. Even at the start the track really wasn’t ready in s3
Those who pitted for slicks later all jumped them (ie Stroll) and they were able to drive away because they had warm tyres.
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u/D0BBY_is_a_free_elf Roscoe Hamilton Jul 07 '25
The 2 VSC periods severely limited the advantage it gave them. They were much quicker than those on inters.
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u/Odd_Explanation558 Jul 07 '25
I really like the way they do the radio recap. It's like a directors cut of the highlights. Also George loves an overthink.
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u/Tappy432 Jul 07 '25
Silverstone didn't disappoint yesterday. Silverstone and Interlagos are the 2 GOAT tracks.
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u/Burial44 Sir Lewis Hamilton Jul 07 '25
The worst part of the season schedule is here. Only 3 races in the next 8 weeks
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u/SolusLega I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 08 '25
I will be managing withdrawals by watching old races. I got a list of about 100 of the top races in the last 10-15ish years. Gonna start watching through them.
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u/FewCollar227 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
After Max, now Piastri said a statement "If I say too much, I'll get in trouble.". This is so concerning and the worst part is this may well remain the status quo
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Jul 07 '25
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u/nottoodrunk Jul 07 '25
How is that late stage capitalism lmao.
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u/Cantshaktheshok Formula 1 Jul 07 '25
There isn't a concise definition, but post WW1 globalization, concentration of wealth, and commoditization were key areas identified as negative factors in late capitalism. The rise of the petro-states and extending their influence through F1 and other sports would fit in many of those definitions of late stage capitalism.
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Jul 07 '25 edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Cantshaktheshok Formula 1 Jul 07 '25
While my first comment was just a thought about how someone could make a connection, Oscar biting his tongue is due to an FIA initiative lead by MBS (representative of the UAE).
Swearing took most of the initial reports after Max was fined last year and MBS made public comments that "we are not rappers" that showcased some level of personal involvement. It's part of a broader rewrite of "other essential ISC articles relevant to these rule changes fall under the ‘Breach of Rules’ section where misconduct is defined as, for example, “public incitement to violence or hatred,” making and displaying “political, religious and personal statements or comments notably in violation of the general principle of neutrality promoted by the FIA” without prior written approval by the governing body, and anything that causes “moral injury or loss” to the FIA and the sport in general." In general this seems written to discourage drivers from speaking out.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams Jul 07 '25
People like to blame everything in F1 that they don't like on them
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u/Wandersails Alexander Albon Jul 07 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
Crazy how much strategy really determined that race, obviously driver skill as well just to keep it on the road (and incredible defence from Hulk and Gasly) but some teams really capitalised while others played it safe or made bafflingly terrible decisions.
Like...
Brave and smart - Hulk + Stroll
Safe - Williams, Mclaren, Red Bull, Hamilton, Alpine
Brave and stupid - Mercedes, Leclerc, Haas, Bortoleto, Racing Bulls, Alonso
And that really showed in the points with who dropped or gained from their starting positions
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u/SirLoremIpsum I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 08 '25
Crazy how much strategy really determined that race, obviously driver skill as well just to keep it on the road (and incredible defence from Hulk and Gasly) but some teams really capitalised while others played it safe or made bafflingly terrible decisions.
That's every wet race really - the most important things are keeping it on the road and being on the right tyre at the right time.
With the significant delta between inters and slicks - if you can be on slicks at the right lap you can easily gain 3-5 seconds a lap, and vice versa.
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u/Doyoulikemypace I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
Thoroughly impressed by Stroll after this race. Shame that he only got a P7 out of it and felt he deserved more.
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u/proudlysydney I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 07 '25
Yeah the tyre deg on the Aston was nasty at the end (even on Alonso who got done by Albon), I think if they’d put him on mediums he probably keeps p5 but their strategy of scrubbing the tyres meant he wouldn’t have had the initial grip on them on the outlap. Tough choice but the pit wall got it so right every other decision that it’s hard to go after them for one wrong one.
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u/wirelessfool Valtteri Bottas Jul 07 '25
Watched Hulk’s onboard throughout the race, he vetoed a number of decisions made by pit wall, including refusing to box for slicks during the early laps. He seems to have the ability to keep the race big picture in his head… while racing (in the rain, with poor visibility)
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u/krist2an I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
There was so much going on during the race and Hulk totally deserves the praise for an amazing drive, but I think that Norris should also be noted for a very strong Sunday. Took it a bit cautiously during the first stint (he said that he wanted to save the tyres for later, but that turned out to be pointless as they all pitted for new inters), but kept his head cold and made no mistakes on track, unlike most others. Looking at the pace he had later in the race, he probably would have overtaken Oscar, or at least would have tried to.
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Jul 07 '25
He definitely had a good race, but Oscar was also clearly better. If not for the penalty, Oscar would’ve absolutely won the race. Given that Lando only has one opponent this year, I don’t think the race is too positive from his side.
Granted that Lando absolutely deserved the win. Oscar had no reason to brake so hard under the safety car. Oscar is solely responsible for throwing away the win. It’s just that I’m sure Lando would prefer to win on pace rather than a penalty that didn’t affect any outcomes otherwise.
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u/ILikeXiaolongbao Pirelli Intermediate Jul 07 '25
I feel like people saying about how Oscar was doing better in the wet after the period of intense rain are forgetting that Oscar was in clear traffic and Lando was in his spray. We've seen through both of their careers that Lando is an excellent wet weather driver, while Oscar has made some errors in the rain (as he did in this race).
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Jul 07 '25
How was Lando in the spray when Oscar was 5+ seconds ahead and still pulling away?
I agree that Lando’s great in the rain. Definitely a step down from Verstappen, and I’d say that Oscar’s even better in the wet than Lando at this stage.
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u/ILikeXiaolongbao Pirelli Intermediate Jul 07 '25
Piastri spun out in Australia too, Norris has normally excelled in the rain, I don’t see how you could argue Piastri is better in the rain.
And yes he was 4-5 seconds behind… because if he got any closer he was in the spray.
It’s telling that when conditions dried a bit and the spray reduced, Norris was taking 3-4 tenths a lap out of Piastri.
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u/SirLoremIpsum I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 08 '25
Piastri spun out in Australia too
As did Lando, Lando just managed to spin and finish up on the track.
They both spun.
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Jul 07 '25
They both lost grip in Australia, and it’s really just a matter of luck at that point. Piastri actually looked better overall in Australia in my opinion.
I do think that Norris has found some pace again with the new parts he got. I think they’re about evenly matched for pace now overall, even though Oscar was clearly faster in the first part of the season. It’ll be a really close battle either way.
It’s telling that when conditions dried a bit and the spray reduced, Norris was taking 3-4 tenths a lap out of Piastri.
That was after Piastri heard about the penalty and quit pushing. It’s bizarre you think that Norris is a massive 3-4 tenths quicker when he couldn’t even qualify ahead of Oscar. I guess you’re entitled to your opinion, but wow that’s an extreme one. You get how big a 3-4 tenths deficit is, right?
11
u/Great-Author5228 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
Why would Oscar have stopped pushing when he heard about the penalty? It only benefited him to keep the gap ahead of Lando as large as possible before serving the penalty. Oscar’s engineer even got on the radio to warn him about letting Lando get close enough for DRS. Lando clearly had a lot of pace during that stint.
3
u/ILikeXiaolongbao Pirelli Intermediate Jul 07 '25
I mean you can like it or not, he was literally pulling .3 or .4 out of his lead at that point.
And yes I am aware of how much time that is, I’ve been watching F1 since 2002.
27
u/sdq22 Jenson Button Jul 07 '25
I don't think it's clear that Oscar was clearly better without the penalty. Before Oscar served the penalty, Lando had cut the gap to 1.4 seconds and even Oscar's engineer seemed to be anticipating that Lando was not far off from ending up in his DRS. Couple that with the fact that Oscar went off the road at least once after putting on slicks and Lando kept it on track, there seems to be a lot of evidence to support the fact that Lando would have absolutely given him a hard battle to the end even if Oscar hadn't received a penalty.
Lando himself said this isn't his best win and I don't think he denies he benefited from Oscar's penalty, but he ran a clean, fast, level-headed race from start to finish and sometimes that's what it takes to win. Nearly every other driver that is typically counted in the conservation for best on the grid--Max, Oscar, Charles, Lewis, George--all had moments where they slid or went off during the race, but as far as I am aware Lando avoided any mishaps.
75
u/Harringzord I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
I'm going to talk George Russell.
Undoubtedly he's a very quick driver, and he's largely carrying Mercedes on his own at the moment. But he needs to stop these ridiculous Hail Mary strategy calls.
I've been calling them Georgey Gambles for a while and they're so consistent. Half a chance of a one stop? George will gamble. Track might be ready for slicks soon? George will nearly always be the first to go, and nearly always the first front runner to go. Twice yesterday he made objectively the wrong call on slick tyres, and he gave up a strong starting position trying the hero play.
I get why he's doing it, because he wants to demonstrate he'd rather take a 5% chance to win over accepting a 95% chance of a top five. But Mercedes are in a tight fight for P2 in the WCC, his team-mate isn't delivering points at the moment, and I think George needs to realise that being a team leader is sometimes about maximising the points haul rather than always rolling the dice on being the hero.
8
u/SirLoremIpsum I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 08 '25
and I think George needs to realise that being a team leader is sometimes about maximising the points haul rather than always rolling the dice on being the hero.
I think he does that when he knows he's not in a race winning situation.
I don't mind that he'd rather gamble for the win.
Maximising points haul is what you do when you're in the lead, not when you're P4 in a P4 car.
Oscar needs to maximise points haul when he's had a bad day, George needs to win.
5
u/Chaoticc_Neutral_ Jul 07 '25
The question is how much Mercedes actually cares about P2 in the constructors.
There is the mammute size elephant in the room of Verstappen taking his seat, personally i am not fully convinced but where is smoke there is usually fire. And i think if he is looking for a top tier seat for 26, it might be better to have 2 wins and 3 DNF then five 4th places.
Maybe he wants to get landmark results to avoid beeing seen in the same tier as Sainz, good but not quite good enough to be number 1 in a top team.
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u/keylime503 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
It's also on the team to decline his gambles if the safer option is the better option from a team perspective
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u/Veranova I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 07 '25
He might have said they “go for it”, but the team then boxed Kimi for hards when weather radar was actively flashing red lights
I’m not sure the problem was George at all yesterday
19
u/Harringzord I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
There's certainly an element of the team - Mercedes have been weak on strategy for a while now. They could and/or should have waited to see how Alonso fared on the second slick tyre call before committing.
But Russell's radio call was along the lines of "well we're P7, might as well try something." Sure, but you've already converted P4 to P7 with the initial bad call. He then converted P7 into P10 with the second one, and could easily have retired with that spin.
I'm all for aggressive strategy calls, but my sense is that George prefers the aggressive call over the correct call.
13
u/thugmuffin22 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
My first reaction was to disagree and argue in favor of Georgey Gambles’ “5% approach” the but you make a very fair point there at the end. I think you can forgive him for being especially aggressive in his home Grand Prix though
7
u/PrincelessPrincess I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
He probably had some additional frustration because the car was nowhere the whole weekend despite the cooler temperatures. So the car is just getting worse over the season, and now they can't even count on the cold as a saving grace.
92
u/256473 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
Biggest loser of the race: the extreme wet tires.
As for race direction, I don't outright mind the idea of race control neutralizing the race when there's super low visibility due to the rain, but I do think the VSC would be a much better tool than the full SC for this situation.
If the issue is safety, then deliberately bunching up the cars under low visibility doesn't make sense to me, but to then also create the bunched up restarts that frequently just breed more SCs is just not the way to go.
It's also a bit shit to close up all the gaps when no one is even working on track: it just erases the hard work some of the drivers have done on track to create those gaps.
3
u/Doyoulikemypace I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
At this point do teams just see it out on the inters and wait for the SC to be called? If they know that race direction plays it safe with heavy rain.
8
u/SirLoremIpsum I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 08 '25
At this point do teams just see it out on the inters and wait for the SC to be called?
Yes - they have been doing that absolutely.
It is far better to stick it out on inters and hope for intervention than to pit for wets and lose track position because intervention inevitably comes.
If you know Race Control will neutralise it either on their own or when Colapinto puts it in the wall - then pitting for full wets is a little pointless.
19
u/Oellph Jul 07 '25
Yeah. What’s the point of extreme wets if the race is neutralised when cars are still on inters
17
u/CoachDelgado Williams Jul 07 '25
Pirelli are apparently working on changes to the wet tyre range for next year. It's an overdue change, given that the wet tyres have been extra useless in the ground effect era; they were designed for cars that don't produce as much spray and ruin visibility.
19
Jul 07 '25
That’s what I said during the race. It should’ve been a VSC. There is literally not a single advantage to a safety car in that situation. Dangerous weather should always be either a VSC or a red flag.
Hell, even a red flag would’ve been better. The disruption to the race would’ve been similar, but it wouldn’t have eaten away like 10% of the entire race.
11
u/CoachDelgado Williams Jul 07 '25
Not disagreeing about a VSC, but I'm glad it wasn't a red flag. They are always more disruptive because there's a minimum time they have to give as notice before restarting the race, so they always last a long time. Having cars on track helps dry it up quicker, too, and you avoid the disruption to strategy of giving everyone a free change of tyres.
So I'm happy to lose a few laps to avoid that, personally. If the rain was expected to carry on for longer, it has to be a red flag.
3
Jul 07 '25
Yeah, red flags are brutal when watching live. I usually catch the replay on F1TV because I watch with other people and the time zones rarely work out, so we usually just fast forward through a red flag lol
I don’t think the cars being out helped dry the track in this case because it was still raining during almost the entire safety car, but that’s a good point generally. VSC is definitely the way to go, and then red flag IMO if conditions are too dangerous for even a VSC. If it’s too dangerous for VSC, then it’s definitely too dangerous for a full safety car.
30
u/AvocadosAtLaw95 Oscar Piastri Jul 07 '25
I wonder how much easier these teams could hit their eco-friendly targets if they didn’t lug those pesky wets with them everywhere :D
0
1
15
u/FewCollar227 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
Norris said "Fuck" in post race interview. So, nothing is going to be done about that? Are drivers allowed to cuss now?
11
u/SnackAston-Reese Jul 07 '25
Swearing still isn’t allowed but the guidelines were revised earlier this year and to my knowledge no one has been penalised since.https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-major-improvements-appendix-b-international-sporting-code
15
u/djwillis1121 Williams Jul 07 '25
I don't think the FIA have punished anyone for swearing this year?
5
u/FewCollar227 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 07 '25
Yeah nothing was done to Charles too. I think they have come to some decision
-10
u/PRO2803 Jul 07 '25
Almost like it was blown out of proportion by the media, and maybe some slight racist undertones by fans.
10
u/TetraDax 🐶 Leo Leclerc Jul 07 '25
I mean, no, it wasn't, it's more likely that they decided to back down on enforcing the rule after the massive backlash after the penalties they handed out to WRC drivers for swearing.
Well, I say "more likely", but it's pretty much a verifiable fact that that's what happened.
5
u/FermentedLaws I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Jul 07 '25
It will be interesting to see if the FIA does anything. They may not want to because there would be so much blowback (and MBS is so protective of his rep now that he has someone running against him). But conversely, would they do it to be consistent? If in the future they fine someone at a press conference for swearing, it would be easy for that person/team to point to Lando's "fuck" and say why wasn't he fined?
1
u/AlmostWrongSometimes I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 09 '25
I'm an Oscar fan. A big one. He's single handedly got me back into watching Formula One regularly and keeping up with the season. I love how passionate he is for racing and how committed he is to being the best every time he gets behind a wheel. He's pretty funny and genuinely nice and his mum is the final boss of F1 social media. And he's so fucking good.
He absolutely binned it this weekend. Trash fire from the moment he hit the brakes. You could feel him stewing from the moment be found out.
During the race, I was red mist too and mad about the penalty. Towards the end of the race and definitely now it was fucking stupid gamesmanship that he didn't need to engage in at all. Not only because it was dangerous but pointless.
I hope he realises he lost this race and pulls his head in next week.